The WWE Creative team drops the ball

[Guest MikeSC]

Mortis would sell and lose matches.

No offense --- but when the heck did Mortis EVER sell?

 

I always thought Kanyon was decent --- but like O'Haire, the ridiculous amount of jock-riding seems a bit odd. He was a decent worker --- definitely NOT great --- who seems to work best with short-lived, cute gimmicks (such as Positively Kanyon).

-=Mike

[Guest Anglesault]

They didn't do NOTHING with them, they put them on Velocity

You contradicted yourself.

 

while giving the Bashams a bigger push.

 

The Bashams are the worst tag team I've seen since I started watching wrestling regularly in 96.

 

And they were only off the show for two weeks? Seems like more than that. Even when they were on the show they had no direction and were little more than Eddie and Chavo's personal jobbers.

 

Was 2 weeks such a bad thing? It even got you a Spanky/London vs. WGTT match on Velocity.

 

I don't watch Velocity.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Then watch it or stop whining.

 

Calling The Basham the worst tag team since 1996 is such a gross overstatement that I can't believe that even YOU would say that.

 

Steiner/Test, The New Midnight Express, Kronik were all worse. The Basham's may be incredibly vanilla but they're at least semi competant as wrestlers.

 

But hey, I think They wore those S&M masks inside out once.

[Guest Anglesault]

Steiner/Test, The New Midnight Express, Kronik

 

At the very least, those teams had some cool spots (be it tag team or individual) to try and spice up the match a little.

 

The Bashams go out there and seemingly try NOT to get the crowd into the match, or even say "ooh". They've picked one of the crappier tag team finishers I've seen in a while, as they pick two weak mid match moves and combine them. Hell, I don't like the APA or Kronik but at least they could be bothered to incorporate high impact type moves into their matches.

 

Without looking something up, I can only think of ONE spot or big move that those two have established as a double team move (the crappy finisher), and not a single big move that either does individually. Horrid.

 

Then watch it or stop whining.

 

That makes no sense. I shouldn't complain about the best tag team being relegated to the jobber show because I don't watch said jobber show?

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

they weren't jobbing though. Generally putting over people on other shows is an attempt to get higher ratings.

 

Lord knows THAT'S a bad thing

[Epic Reine]

2 weeks on Velocity, they wrestled London/Spanky and I beleive two indy's.

 

Two weeks, was it that bad a thing? And heck, they did better ratings that week against London/Spanky if I remember correctly, than most Velocity's have done.

 

And during this 2 week sabatical, Bashams got a slight push, as did Eddie/Chavo.

 

Is it THAT horrid?

[Guest Loss]

I think had they gone through with the idea of reforming the Flock in early 2002, it could still be playing out today and being the glue of the undercard. Raven, Saturn, Kanyon, Kidman and Richards would make up the group, and they could have breathed some new life into the Hardy Boyz tag team by having them get brainwashed by Raven and turn on Lita.

 

I would have put Kanyon in a program with RVD. The matches may have been ... interesting ... but I think a series between them would have gotten over because of the style each wrestler has. It was worth at least taking a risk in that case, since Kanyon had proven he could get over if nothing else.

 

The bottom fell out of the midcard when Benoit and Jericho were elevated, then thrust back into the midcard several times in 2000 and 2001. There was no one else really established enough at the IC level to pick up the pieces, and the Canadians were now perceived as also-ran main eventers instead of strong midcarders, and as a result, it became very obvious to the viewer that anything that happened below the world title level simply wasn't important.

[King Cucaracha]

Weren't TWGGT on Velocity because they were returning from injuries?

 

Or, is this another time-period we're talking about?

[Guest Anglesault]

And during this 2 week sabatical, Bashams got a slight push, as did Eddie/Chavo.

 

Is it THAT horrid?

Bashams getting a push=horrid.

 

Eddie being stuck with Chavo when Eddie was more than ready to move on and Chavo was a total leech=horrid.

[Epic Reine]

And during this 2 week sabatical, Bashams got a slight push, as did Eddie/Chavo.

 

Is it THAT horrid?

Bashams getting a push=horrid.

 

Eddie being stuck with Chavo when Eddie was more than ready to move on and Chavo was a total leech=horrid.

So no tag division is better?

 

And Chavo leeching off Eddy was no big deal, considering WWE didn't want to push Eddy at the time. They still cared about Kurt-Brock-Show, and were experimenting with Benoit, A-Train, and Cena. It was better for Eddy to stay in the tag division.

[Guest Anglesault]

It was better for Eddy to stay in the tag division.

 

At that point, Eddie was the most over he had been in the WWE and probably the most over guy in the company. They got the US belt off him and he was absolutely ready to move on to the main. Demoting him back to the tag scene and sticking Leech Chavo and Heatless Bahsams with him could have had disasterous consequences. I personally think it did lower his heat a bit before they FINALLY turned Chavo.

 

And I'm not sure how keeping your one good permanent tag team off the show and giving them no direction is good for the division.

[TheBigSwigg]

They didn't do NOTHING with them, they put them on Velocity

You contradicted yourself.

Not quite....Double Negative!

 

Which is what the Bashams new name should be

 

EDIT: What the hell is wrong with me today?

[Guest Anglesault]

They didn't do NOTHING with them, they put them on Velocity

You contradicted yourself.

Not quite....Double Negative!

 

Which is what the Bashams new name should be

 

EDIT: What the hell is wrong with me today?

I wasn't referring to the double negative.

[Guest PowerPB13]

If there's one thing to keep in mind, it's this...WWE's creative team ALWAYS drops the ball, ALWAYS. They'll screw it up, no matter what. They'll screw up Raw, too...once Triple H squashes Benoit like a grape and takes back the belt that Benoit has been keeping warm for him, it'll be back to square one.

 

-Patrick

[Guest MikeSC]

If there's one thing to keep in mind, it's this...WWE's creative team ALWAYS drops the ball, ALWAYS. They'll screw it up, no matter what. They'll screw up Raw, too...once Triple H squashes Benoit like a grape and takes back the belt that Benoit has been keeping warm for him, it'll be back to square one.

 

-Patrick

Didn't you pick HHH to win at WM XX?

 

Just gonna keep picking it over and over until it FINALLY happens --- and then say "See, I was right"?

-=Mike

[Guest PowerPB13]

It's only a matter of time before he gets it back. I think that's kind of a foregone conclusion.

 

-Patrick

[Guest Anglesault]

If there's one thing to keep in mind, it's this...WWE's creative team ALWAYS drops the ball, ALWAYS.  They'll screw it up, no matter what.  They'll screw up Raw, too...once Triple H squashes Benoit like a grape and takes back the belt that Benoit has been keeping warm for him, it'll be back to square one.

 

-Patrick

Didn't you pick HHH to win at WM XX?

 

Just gonna keep picking it over and over until it FINALLY happens --- and then say "See, I was right"?

-=Mike

Unless they want to make this title a total joke, HHH can't be the next holder under any circumstances. Kill this "Yo-Yo" vibe.

[Guest PowerPB13]

Number one, I thought the title already WAS a total joke, and number two, that means Triple H regaining the title is EXACTLY what'll happen.

 

-Patrick

[Guest MikeSC]

If there's one thing to keep in mind, it's this...WWE's creative team ALWAYS drops the ball, ALWAYS.  They'll screw it up, no matter what.  They'll screw up Raw, too...once Triple H squashes Benoit like a grape and takes back the belt that Benoit has been keeping warm for him, it'll be back to square one.

 

-Patrick

Didn't you pick HHH to win at WM XX?

 

Just gonna keep picking it over and over until it FINALLY happens --- and then say "See, I was right"?

-=Mike

Unless they want to make this title a total joke, HHH can't be the next holder under any circumstances. Kill this "Yo-Yo" vibe.

Yet nobody seems to mind that, oh, Ric Flair did the EXACT same thing for, well, 10 years straight.

-=Mike

[JHawk]

If there's one thing to keep in mind, it's this...WWE's creative team ALWAYS drops the ball, ALWAYS.  They'll screw it up, no matter what.  They'll screw up Raw, too...once Triple H squashes Benoit like a grape and takes back the belt that Benoit has been keeping warm for him, it'll be back to square one.

 

-Patrick

Didn't you pick HHH to win at WM XX?

 

Just gonna keep picking it over and over until it FINALLY happens --- and then say "See, I was right"?

-=Mike

Unless they want to make this title a total joke, HHH can't be the next holder under any circumstances. Kill this "Yo-Yo" vibe.

Yet nobody seems to mind that, oh, Ric Flair did the EXACT same thing for, well, 10 years straight.

-=Mike

That might have something to do with Flair being able to carry anybody well enough to make them look credible. He had good matches with Ronnie fucking Garvin, of all people. While Triple H has finally been putting on some good matches with people not named Shawn Michaels the last 3 or 4 months, he'd basically been World Champion for 14 out of 18 months without anything resembling a classic match...or while doing something resembling drawing money.

 

To compare:

 

Ric Flair: Good matches with damn near everybody (this guy made longtime enhancement talent look like they might be able to pull off the upset). Drew a ton of money for Jim Crockett Promotions when Hulk Hogan got all the mainstream publicity. And people paid to see him on the basis that he might lose the title.

 

Triple H: Prior to the first match with Shelton Benjamin, can you name one match in the last two years that topped *** and didn't have Shawn Michaels in it? I can't. Arguably a huge draw in 2000, but feuded with The Rock and Mick Foley in that stretch, so you could argue the opponents were the draws. Add in the fact that while most people pay to see a title program because the champion might lose, even casual fans avoided ordering Raw PPVs because they didn't think Triple H could lose.

[Guest Anglesault]

If there's one thing to keep in mind, it's this...WWE's creative team ALWAYS drops the ball, ALWAYS.  They'll screw it up, no matter what.  They'll screw up Raw, too...once Triple H squashes Benoit like a grape and takes back the belt that Benoit has been keeping warm for him, it'll be back to square one.

 

-Patrick

Didn't you pick HHH to win at WM XX?

 

Just gonna keep picking it over and over until it FINALLY happens --- and then say "See, I was right"?

-=Mike

Unless they want to make this title a total joke, HHH can't be the next holder under any circumstances. Kill this "Yo-Yo" vibe.

Yet nobody seems to mind that, oh, Ric Flair did the EXACT same thing for, well, 10 years straight.

-=Mike

When Flair did it, was he doing it for the entire length of the belt's existance? I honestly have no idea.

[King Cucaracha]

feuded with The Rock and Mick Foley in that stretch, so you could argue the opponents were the draws.

 

They did give him the boost in the early stages (Strap Match, Raw Title change)...but after that, Triple H's success wasn't simply about Rock or Foley. I mean, obviously you could argue with it, because Rock was his opponent on PPVs for about 5 straight months. But HHH was more than just 'the other guy'.

 

If there's one thing to keep in mind, it's this...WWE's creative team ALWAYS drops the ball, ALWAYS. They'll screw it up, no matter what. They'll screw up Raw, too...once Triple H squashes Benoit like a grape and takes back the belt that Benoit has been keeping warm for him, it'll be back to square one.

 

-Patrick

 

When was the last time you didn't post something that wasn't extremely negative? 'Cause I can't remember one instance where you have, and the constant doom foreshadowing is getting REALLY boring.

[Guest MikeSC]

That might have something to do with Flair being able to carry anybody well enough to make them look credible.  He had good matches with Ronnie fucking Garvin, of all people.  While Triple H has finally been putting on some good matches with people not named Shawn Michaels the last 3 or 4 months, he'd basically been World Champion for 14 out of 18 months without anything resembling a classic match...or while doing something resembling drawing money.

 

To compare:

 

Ric Flair:  Good matches with damn near everybody (this guy made longtime enhancement talent look like they might be able to pull off the upset).  Drew a ton of money for Jim Crockett Promotions when Hulk Hogan got all the mainstream publicity.  And people paid to see him on the basis that he might lose the title.

Compare the opponents. You may criticize Garvin, but he was a solid enough worker. Hunter was stuck with RVD (who, hate to burst some bubbles, is rather bad), Booker (who is mediocre --- but had his best match in years with Hunter), Nash, GB, Hogan, Steiner, etc. HHH worked with stiffs. Give Flair tons of matches with Dusty (their matches NEVER were good), Hawk (ditto), El Gigante, and Junkyard Dog and his legendary ability likely wouldn't appear to be that good. Flair had matches with guys like Morton, Sting (back when he gave a damn), Windham, etc. on a fairly regular basis to give him his string of classics.

 

In 2000, HHH made TAKA look like a credible challenger. He made RIKISHI look like a credible challenger (no mean feat). He's put over Shelton. He totally put over Goldberg (and hearing the complaints about GB's WWE treatment is just beyond irritating, as Hunter jobbed like mad to that lug). He's done plenty.

Triple H:  Prior to the first match with Shelton Benjamin, can you name one match in the last two years that topped *** and didn't have Shawn Michaels in it?  I can't.  Arguably a huge draw in 2000, but feuded with The Rock and Mick Foley in that stretch, so you could argue the opponents were the draws.  Add in the fact that while most people pay to see a title program because the champion might lose, even casual fans avoided ordering Raw PPVs because they didn't think Triple H could lose.

His match w/ Booker at WM XIX was a 3 star affair. Besides that, the guys he worked with didn't DO good matches, period. People acted as if HHH made RVD look like crap in their match --- ignoring that RVD hasn't looked much better against ANYBODY.

 

They stopped watching RAW PPV's because the brand had horrible ME's (thanks Nash and GB --- and if they want to sign Sting, it'll be just as bad). When they ramped up the level of ME competition, it got better.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

If there's one thing to keep in mind, it's this...WWE's creative team ALWAYS drops the ball, ALWAYS.  They'll screw it up, no matter what.  They'll screw up Raw, too...once Triple H squashes Benoit like a grape and takes back the belt that Benoit has been keeping warm for him, it'll be back to square one.

 

-Patrick

Didn't you pick HHH to win at WM XX?

 

Just gonna keep picking it over and over until it FINALLY happens --- and then say "See, I was right"?

-=Mike

Unless they want to make this title a total joke, HHH can't be the next holder under any circumstances. Kill this "Yo-Yo" vibe.

Yet nobody seems to mind that, oh, Ric Flair did the EXACT same thing for, well, 10 years straight.

-=Mike

When Flair did it, was he doing it for the entire length of the belt's existance? I honestly have no idea.

From 1981 until 2000, it was always the case. If Flair lost it, Flair would regain it.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

2000?

 

That's a huge exageration. After Hogan's arrival Flair only had a handfull of title reigns and he definately was not winning it back from whoever beat him for it. You might have a case up until 91 but after he left for the WWF your case falls apart.

[Guest MikeSC]

2000?

 

That's a huge exageration. After Hogan's arrival Flair only had a handfull of title reigns and he definately was not winning it back from whoever beat him for it. You might have a case up until 91 but after he left for the WWF your case falls apart.

Meant 1990. Total brain fart.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Ok, that makes a lot more sense.

[Guest PowerPB13]

If there's one thing to keep in mind, it's this...WWE's creative team ALWAYS drops the ball, ALWAYS. They'll screw it up, no matter what. They'll screw up Raw, too...once Triple H squashes Benoit like a grape and takes back the belt that Benoit has been keeping warm for him, it'll be back to square one.

 

-Patrick

 

When was the last time you didn't post something that wasn't extremely negative? 'Cause I can't remember one instance where you have, and the constant doom foreshadowing is getting REALLY boring.

If you could give me a good reason to not be negative about the state of affairs in WWE, I'm all ears.

 

-Patrick

[Guest Anglesault]

If there's one thing to keep in mind, it's this...WWE's creative team ALWAYS drops the ball, ALWAYS.  They'll screw it up, no matter what.  They'll screw up Raw, too...once Triple H squashes Benoit like a grape and takes back the belt that Benoit has been keeping warm for him, it'll be back to square one.

 

-Patrick

Didn't you pick HHH to win at WM XX?

 

Just gonna keep picking it over and over until it FINALLY happens --- and then say "See, I was right"?

-=Mike

Unless they want to make this title a total joke, HHH can't be the next holder under any circumstances. Kill this "Yo-Yo" vibe.

Yet nobody seems to mind that, oh, Ric Flair did the EXACT same thing for, well, 10 years straight.

-=Mike

When Flair did it, was he doing it for the entire length of the belt's existance? I honestly have no idea.

From 1981 until 2000, it was always the case. If Flair lost it, Flair would regain it.

-=Mike

But as 81 the first year of the belt's existance with Flair as the first champion?

[Guest Trivia247]

Difference between Flair and HHH in their title reigns is a little more obvious....

 

While Flair always got it back and talked arrogantly... he did his damndest to make anyone he was facing look like solid gold, and Flair was gonna lose it any second. Even in defeat the wrestler he faced would still look like a contender.

 

HHH on the other hand, more than likely dominates here and there, even when he gets in trouble he low blows and resumes to Dominate. He doesn't make his opponent look as good as he should and in fact anyone who loses to HHH doesn't look like a contender, but find themselves mid to low carding it next night on Raw