Complete World X Cup spoilers

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Taped Last Week:

 

Elix Skipper & Christopher Daniels b Johnny Devine & Bobby Rude (said to be the best match all night)

 

Ryuji Hijikata & Mitsu Hirai Jr. b Abismo Negro & Heavy Metal

 

Eric Young won ladder match over Jerry Lynn, Taichi Ishikari and Mr. Aguila - Cool spots but crowd was totally dead for this match. Most of the crowd left before it started

 

 

Taped yesterday:

 

Chris Sabin won the three-way over Petey Williams and Hector Garza under Ultimate X rules to win the X Cup. This gets funny later. They film the celebration.

 

However, after the PPV ended, they taped the gauntlet (Rumble rules) match which may end up being next week's opener. In that one, Hector Garza pinned Elix Skipper to win.

 

Both of these matches were said to have been really good. Ultimate X was said to have blown away anything on tonight's show, gone more than 15:00 and on par with the first Ultimate X match.

 

Gauntlet match also good. Reports are next week's PPV is a strong show.

 

 

 

 

 

....................................................

 

 

 

It is silly that they had to tape it out of order....but they couldn't expect the crowd to stay put while they set up the Ultimate X set-up after the show either.

 

 

I like how they booked NWA's win. XXX won the tag match, and Sabin won the Ultimate X. Which makes sense...as they were more experienced in those matches than their opponents.

 

The reason there are only 3 people in the Ultimate X match is that the team with the lowest points is eliminated before the final match (which was team Japan). Team Canada earned points for winning the ladder match, Team AAA earned points for winning the Gauntlet, Team NWA earned points for both the tag match and finishing second in the Gauntlet (the last two people got points)....and team Japan only got points for their tag win...which was worth the least.

[Nevermortal 0]

Both of these matches were said to have been really good. Ultimate X was said to have blown away anything on tonight's show, gone more than 15:00 and on par with the first Ultimate X match.

Does that mean it'll suck horribly?

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Dammit! I was gonna ask that first, Nevermortal, but you beat me to it. BASTARD!

 

Anyways, Ultimate X for this one WILL suck. I mean, look who else is in it: Hector Garza, who is basically a punch/kick guy that can do a powerbomb and a nice corkscrew moonsault, and Petey Williams...WHO BOTCHES EVERY FUCKING MOVE HE TRIES. Ugh...

 

XXX/Devine & Rude should be REALLY solid, as Devine and Rude seem to go old-school in the ring, and XXX is the best tag team of the TNA era (and dare I say in the United States for the past two years).

[Nevermortal 0]

Why the hell did TNA replace Teddy & Jack with two sucky guys?

[Guest Donners]

Geez, let's not race to be too negative a week before the bloody thing screens, particularly with fairly positive reports about the matches.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

We're jumping to conclusions because, well...the last X-Cup was pure shit, and this World X-Cup has, aside from Team NWA, extremely weak teams.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Bobby Rude >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Terrible Teddy, the Wrestling Anus.

[Nevermortal 0]

Bobby Rude >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Terrible Teddy, the Wrestling Anus.

Yeah, not at all. I'd rather see Teddy's 500 high spots than Bobby Rude. Velocity fodder.

[Placebo Effect 0]

Why the hell did TNA replace Teddy & Jack with two sucky guys?

They smartly decided to stick with ROH.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Yeah, not at all. I'd rather see Teddy's 500 high spots than Bobby Rude.

 

Eh. I'd rather see wrestling then an attempted gymnastics convention, but hey - that's why wrestling has different styles.

[slimm44 0]

I was there and all the matches went very well with the crowd. Since you have read the spoilers and know who will win, that takes away some of the shock but the show should be really good on Wednesday.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Teddy Hart has at least some sense of "it." Bobby Rude is, as Nevermortal said, Velocity fodder. Displays no charisma in the ring, and seems to just work WWE-style...which is wrong when you're not in WWE.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Displays no charisma in the ring

 

I would debate that, but to be honest, it's been a bit since I've seen him wrestle (he wrestled around here constantly 2-3 years ago) so it's quite possible he's gone downhill. Especially since just being in TNA is fucking with his chances for making it in the fed, I wouldn't be surprised a bit if he doesn't have the energy he once did.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Jack Evans works regularly for ROH, and TNA didn't want to be hypocritical in using him after telling their contracted wrestlers that they can't wrestle in ROH.

 

Teddy Hart was in Japan. He technically could have flown back for the show and then right back to Japan, but it would have been tough. Plus, he didn't want to work if Jack Evans couldn't work.

[Michrome 0]

and Petey Williams...WHO BOTCHES EVERY FUCKING MOVE HE TRIES. Ugh...

 

This is really unfair, he's definitely in the top 20% of Indy workers in the country, and has worked multiple matches for IWA-MS this year that I'd call better than anything TNA has put on all year.

[Guest NateRizzle]

Petey Williams has Ace Steel syndrome. Sucking in TNA, and kicking all kinds of ass in IWA:MS. Just because he can't conform to the spotmaster x-division style doesn't mean he's a bad worker.

[Phoenix Fury Legdrop 0]

I definately agree with NateRizzle and Michrome's posts, as Petey is way better than he's been given credit for. I've only seen the Canada/Mexico X Cup, the five or six-way (I forget who all was in it, and therefore the number of workers in it) and his three-way with Jerry Lynn and Juvy, so I can't judge his TNA work based on what I've seen. But, he does not, in any way, suck. In fact, if you want to see him in a really great match designed for spots (much like any TNA X match ever), watch his six-way elimination match against Jimmy Jacobs, Emil Sitoci, Roderick Strong, Nate Webb, and Arik Cannon from IWA's Simply the Best, which was about as smartly worked as a six-man cluster can get.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Yeah, I'll take y'all's word for it, since I don't have the money to get indy and puro tapes, so I really don't know anything about them aside from their TNA work.

 

And, honestly, this just makes me hate TNA even more. They tell the X-Division workers to slow down and tone the work down...but then refuse to let them tell a story, which many of them are superb at doing (ESPECIALLY Daniels). TNA, either allow them to go all out like they used to back in '02 and the first half of '03, or allow them to tell a story. Spotfests are only good when you don't put restraints on what the workers can and cannot do.*

 

Aside from, of course, using finishers of workers on the rest of the roster and treating them like transition moves. That shit pisses me off.

[Guest MikeSC]

I definately agree with NateRizzle and Michrome's posts, as Petey is way better than he's been given credit for. I've only seen the Canada/Mexico X Cup, the five or six-way (I forget who all was in it, and therefore the number of workers in it) and his three-way with Jerry Lynn and Juvy, so I can't judge his TNA work based on what I've seen. But, he does not, in any way, suck. In fact, if you want to see him in a really great match designed for spots (much like any TNA X match ever), watch his six-way elimination match against Jimmy Jacobs, Emil Sitoci, Roderick Strong, Nate Webb, and Arik Cannon from IWA's Simply the Best, which was about as smartly worked as a six-man cluster can get.

Thing is --- he can be better all he wants --- what he does in TNA is what counts and he isn't bringing the quality.

-=Mike

[Michrome 0]

Why is it only work in spotfest-shows used just to get internet-fan buys that count? What makes TNA count while his actual singles matches where he has time to wrestle like a real wrestler don't? Not every worker excells at turning their brain off to work mindless spotfests, put him in there with Daniels for 15 minutes and you'll get gold.

[Guest Goodear]

I'm starting to get the impression that they've taken the X-Cup concept and pretty much clustered it up a bit too much. I think they would be better off just staying with the singles (which they'd obviously skip with four teams), tags, and the big elimination showdown at the end instead of adding gauntlets and having the cup decided with a three man match (which runs counter to the concept they've established thus far).

[Guest MikeSC]

Why is it only work in spotfest-shows used just to get internet-fan buys that count? What makes TNA count while his actual singles matches where he has time to wrestle like a real wrestler don't? Not every worker excells at turning their brain off to work mindless spotfests, put him in there with Daniels for 15 minutes and you'll get gold.

Considering that all we've seen of him, by and large, is his TNA work --- and impressive it has not been --- mentioning allegedly great matches he allegedly has had is moot.

 

Heck, I remember back in 1997 or so when DDP swore, up and down, that Giant could do a moonsault. It might have been true --- but until he did one where anybody saw it, it'd be irrelevant to even bring it up.

-=Mike

[Michrome 0]

Plenty of people buy IWA:MS tapes. Just because you don't means nothing. It would be like putting Bryan Danielson in a 6-sided ring match with a bunch of luchadores and wondering why it didn't turn out so great. Some wrestlers excell at wrestling real matches rather than silly spotfests, and while I don't think Petey is the greatest out there or anything, his match pedigree in 2004 has been very strong. The matches are all available at smartmarkvideo.com, they're very easy to get. He didn't "alledgedly" have them, just ask all the people that have seen them.

[Guest MikeSC]

Plenty of people buy IWA:MS tapes. Just because you don't means nothing. It would be like putting Bryan Danielson in a 6-sided ring match with a bunch of luchadores and wondering why it didn't turn out so great. Some wrestlers excell at wrestling real matches rather than silly spotfests, and while I don't think Petey is the greatest out there or anything, his match pedigree in 2004 has been very strong. The matches are all available at smartmarkvideo.com, they're very easy to get. He didn't "alledgedly" have them, just ask all the people that have seen them.

Most people don't. If his best work is not in front of his largest audience, don't blame the audience if they don't fully appreciate his work.

 

And, no, I don't assume that a match is great because some smarks say it is. The things that make some people here pop wood (see Kanyon) makes little sense.

-=Mike

[Nevermortal 0]

Has Petey ever done his Sunset Piledriver in TNA?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Yeah a couple of times.

 

He hit a beauty of one on Sabin in the team NWA vs. team Canada 8 man a couple weeks ago.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Most people don't. If his best work is not in front of his largest audience, don't blame the audience if they don't fully appreciate his work.

 

Mike you are representing yourself terribly with your explaination on this one. So you saying that it's alright to judge a worker and you haven't even seen the majority of their work? That makes no sense....

 

 

 

And, no, I don't assume that a match is great because some smarks say it is. The things that make some people here pop wood (see Kanyon) makes little sense.

-=Mike

 

I understand you don't listen to everything you hear, so in a round about way your saying you won't judge a match until you see it then, right? But you'll judge a wrestler that you have seen or haven't seen much of? Come on Mike.............

[Guest MikeSC]

Most people don't. If his best work is not in front of his largest audience, don't blame the audience if they don't fully appreciate his work.

 

Mike you are representing yourself terribly with your explaination on this one. So you saying that it's alright to judge a worker and you haven't even seen the majority of their work? That makes no sense....

What I'msaying is that if a guy's best work is not seen by the largest audience, the largest audience cannot be blamed if they don't think the guy is that great.

 

The TNA audience only has his TNA work to go by --- and his TNA work has been, to be generous, mediocre. That's largely HIS fault.

 

If Eddy Guerrero's US work was MUCH worse than his Japanese work, I wouldn't blame American fans for saying that he isn't that great --- because in America, he wouldn't have been.

 

Think of Hulk Hogan. Most people who follow him know that his Japanese work was considerably better than his American work (not great, but a definite improvement). So, we're supposed to say he's decent because, In Japan, he is?

 

No --- it shows that he didn't respect the American audience enough to give us his best and, thus, he will be judged harshly for it.

 

People shouldn't have to search high and low to find work that redeems a guy who put on crap matches in their largest promotion.

And, no, I don't assume that a match is great because some smarks say it is. The things that make some people here pop wood (see Kanyon) makes little sense.

-=Mike

 

I understand you don't listen to everything you hear, so in a round about way your saying you won't judge a match until you see it then, right? But you'll judge a wrestler that you have seen or haven't seen much of? Come on Mike.............

No, I'm saying the match might be good --- but seeing how low the bar tends to be set for indy work, I seriously doubt his work is nearly as good as some people claim it is.

-=Mike

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

What I'msaying is that if a guy's best work is not seen by the largest audience, the largest audience cannot be blamed if they don't think the guy is that great.

-Well it depends on how you look at it. I say they ARE to blame. Would you judge someone like CM Punk on his work only in TNA? Because he would blow ass then.......but a lot of his Indy work outside of TNA is outstanding.

 

The TNA audience only has his TNA work to go by --- and his TNA work has been, to be generous, mediocre. That's largely HIS fault.

 

I wasn't talking about the TNA audience, for the most part to me they are fucking retarded. I was talking about YOU. If that's your opinion of his TNA work, then FINE. But don't catagorize him as a medicre worker just based on his work in one company.

 

If Eddy Guerrero's US work was MUCH worse than his Japanese work, I wouldn't blame American fans for saying that he isn't that great --- because in America, he wouldn't have been.

I would blame them for saying this. This just shows that they are ignorant and judge stuff they don't watch, or at least their opinion means jack shit to me.

 

Think of Hulk Hogan. Most people who follow him know that his Japanese work was considerably better than his American work (not great, but a definite improvement). So, we're supposed to say he's decent because, In Japan, he is?

 

No --- it shows that he didn't respect the American audience enough to give us his best and, thus, he will be judged harshly for it.

It had nothing to do with his respect for the American audience that made him work the way he did. The fact that Vince McMahon changed the way wrestling was(the long drawn out in ring matches, to the 3 to 5 minute TV matches the WWF started in the 80's) and the fact that what Hogan was already doing in ring was enough for him to draw. He never drew on workrate, as he was only a personality. Also, most "smarks" would admit that Hogan knows a lot about putting a match together even though he's not the greatest at the workrate aspect of things.

 

People shouldn't have to search high and low to find work that redeems a guy who put on crap matches in their largest promotion.

 

All they have to do is look up stuff about them on the net. I highly call that serching high and low. Plus, most people that watch TNA have internet access as the majority of TNA's fanbase are internet fans.

 

No, I'm saying the match might be good --- but seeing how low the bar tends to be set for indy work, I seriously doubt his work is nearly as good as some people claim it is.

I would imagine that indy work is probably the most closely scrutinized for it's matches and totally picked apart, because most Indy fans are "smart" fans. I wouldn't say that the bar has been set low, as promotions like ROH, and IWA-MS regularly put on solid matches and shows. Also if you doubt how good his work is, try downloading some of his indy work, or try to find some tapes that could give you a better understanding of how he is in the ring. Also just for the record Petey Williams is simply "alright" in my book, but I've seen enough of his total work to actually make an opinion on him though.

 

that is all I was saying......

[Guest MikeSC]

What I'msaying is that if a guy's best work is not seen by the largest audience, the largest audience cannot be blamed if they don't think the guy is that great.

-Well it depends on how you look at it. I say they ARE to blame. Would you judge someone like CM Punk on his work only in TNA? Because he would blow ass then.......but a lot of his Indy work outside of TNA is outstanding.

I judge Punk like this --- a lot of people seem to think he is great. He did nothing of note in TNA, but TNA stuck him in lame tag matches that were so formulaic you could've used anybody and nobody could have made the matches good.

 

So, is he good? I have no idea.

The TNA audience only has his TNA work to go by --- and his TNA work has been, to be generous, mediocre. That's largely HIS fault.

I wasn't talking about the TNA audience, for the most part to me they are fucking retarded. I was talking about YOU. If that's your opinion of his TNA work, then FINE. But don't catagorize him as a medicre worker just based on his work in one company.

If you have your "shot" and blow it --- it's your fault, not mine. I have no desire, whatsoever, to look up matches of his that might be good. When he HAD my attention, he did nothing whatsoever to make me view him as anything more than an "eh" worker. If he impressed me AT ALL, I'd likely look for his work. But he didn't.

If Eddy Guerrero's US work was MUCH worse than his Japanese work, I wouldn't blame American fans for saying that he isn't that great --- because in America, he wouldn't have been.

I would blame them for saying this. This just shows that they are ignorant and judge stuff they don't watch, or at least their opinion means jack shit to me.

No, it means that when he works in America, his work is crap. It's not an issue with Eddy --- but if a guy ALWAYS works MUCH better overseas that he does in America, then why should an American viewer view him as anything more than a blase worker?

 

Heck, Stuart Scott, back when he was in Orlando, wasn't the annoying troll he is on ESPN right now. I know, because I watched him. Does that mean that people who view him as an annoying on-air "personality" now are wrong?

 

No, it means that he IS an annoying troll on ESPN. His national exposure has been one of increasing irritance.

Think of Hulk Hogan. Most people who follow him know that his Japanese work was considerably better than his American work (not great, but a definite improvement). So, we're supposed to say he's decent because, In Japan, he is?

 

No --- it shows that he didn't respect the American audience enough to give us his best and, thus, he will be judged harshly for it.

It had nothing to do with his respect for the American audience that made him work the way he did. The fact that Vince McMahon changed the way wrestling was(the long drawn out in ring matches, to the 3 to 5 minute TV matches the WWF started in the 80's) and the fact that what Hogan was already doing in ring was enough for him to draw. He never drew on workrate, as he was only a personality. Also, most "smarks" would admit that Hogan knows a lot about putting a match together even though he's not the greatest at the workrate aspect of things.

Then we'll disagree here. Anybody who won't put forth their best effort here doesn't DESERVE respect. If you find US not worthy of your best work, but the Japanese audience DOES deserve it --- then that worker can just rot.

 

And Hogan's matches tended to be the same match, time after time.

People shouldn't have to search high and low to find work that redeems a guy who put on crap matches in their largest promotion.

All they have to do is look up stuff about them on the net. I highly call that serching high and low. Plus, most people that watch TNA have internet access as the majority of TNA's fanbase are internet fans.

But why should somebody be EXPECTED to do that to prove that a guy's work in front of the largest audience was much worse than their usual work? Why should I be expected to DL or buy tapes of matches to show that maybe he's not nearly as mediocre as he showed?

 

I'll do that for people who impress me.

No, I'm saying the match might be good --- but seeing how low the bar tends to be set for indy work, I seriously doubt his work is nearly as good as some people claim it is.

I would imagine that indy work is probably the most closely scrutinized for it's matches and totally picked apart, because most Indy fans are "smart" fans. I wouldn't say that the bar has been set low, as promotions like ROH, and IWA-MS regularly put on solid matches and shows. Also if you doubt how good his work is, try downloading some of his indy work, or try to find some tapes that could give you a better understanding of how he is in the ring. Also just for the record Petey Williams is simply "alright" in my book, but I've seen enough of his total work to actually make an opinion on him though.

 

that is all I was saying......

But you also can't deny that some smarks treat some indy groups with kid gloves and can become bigger marks for their company than any fans on Earth (I call it the "ECW Syndrome").

 

Petey did nothing to impress me. I won't waste my time finding more of his work to disprove my notions. If he was moderately impressive, I WOULD spend the time to see more of his work.

-=Mike