Bill Cosby lays the smack down

[Guest Loss]

Anyone who truly thinks everyone in this country, regardless of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation, gets the same opportunities is only fooling himself. This is the downside to capitalism -- it's automatically assumed that those who aren't looking to become billionaires or be put in leadership positions in corporations are contributing to a problem. I refuse to accept that a middle class black family that's crime-free and drug-free that occasionally uses the words "axed" or "dawg" is contributing to anyone's problems.

 

There is a huge double standard in terms of race and what's acceptable in America. Rappers are criticized on a regular basis for violent lyrics, but Johnny Cash has free reign to shoot a man in Reno just to watch him die, for example. Cosby is blaming a universal epidemic on a singular group of people, and that's what's so sad about this. I understand that he's addressing the NAACP, but he fails to realize that the same problems exist in white America, but it's considered a less taboo subject. The issue of race is never addressed when a crazy white guy sends people exploding packages in the mail or bombs a federal building in Oklahoma City, but it's definitely an issue when a former athlete stabs his ex-wife. It's all simply a matter of interpretation.

 

Success isn't measured financially, or at least it shouldn't be. Perhaps one day, our response to violence and hatred will stop being to create harsher punishments for offenders or add more security, and we'll actually start working on healing the human heart. As long as people -- of any race -- want to do bad things, bad things will happen.

[NoCalMike 0]

Anyone who truly thinks everyone in this country, regardless of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation, gets the same opportunities is only fooling himself. This is the downside to capitalism -- it's automatically assumed that those who aren't looking to become billionaires or be put in leadership positions in corporations are contributing to a problem. I refuse to accept that a middle class black family that's crime-free and drug-free that occasionally uses the words "axed" or "dawg" is contributing to anyone's problems.

 

There is a huge double standard in terms of race and what's acceptable in America. Rappers are criticized on a regular basis for violent lyrics, but Johnny Cash has free reign to shoot a man in Reno just to watch him die, for example. Cosby is blaming a universal epidemic on a singular group of people, and that's what's so sad about this. I understand that he's addressing the NAACP, but he fails to realize that the same problems exist in white America, but it's considered a less taboo subject. The issue of race is never addressed when a crazy white guy sends people exploding packages in the mail or bombs a federal building in Oklahoma City, but it's definitely an issue when a former athlete stabs his ex-wife. It's all simply a matter of interpretation.

 

Success isn't measured financially, or at least it shouldn't be. Perhaps one day, our response to violence and hatred will stop being to create harsher punishments for offenders or add more security, and we'll actually start working on healing the human heart. As long as people -- of any race -- want to do bad things, bad things will happen.

I agree for the most part, but I do also think that Cosby was addressing "his people" because he had the attitude that african american folks should take care of the problems that are IN THEIR CONTROL, before worrying about those problems that are outside of their control.

 

Remember, it is not like the entire convention was aired, and everything was put into context, the media decided just to air the juiciest soundbytes from the entire speech/convention for the shock factor and to create reaction and a backlash.

 

I don't doubt Cosby recognizes the problems of social inequality and racism etc....but I think his point was that before someone could blame something on someone else, they have to make themself the best person they can be.....FIRST.

[Guest MikeSC]

Excuse me for interrupting your riveting exchange of information, but concerning the original topic of discussion...

 

It's amazing how some people can turn a blind eye to documented history. Anyone who argues that blacks (in this instance, but also women, or minorities) have been afforded a fair shake over the course of our nation's history is either uninformed, delusional, or is full of shit.

 

This isn't rocket science:

 

More than two hundred years ago, we had a government made up exclusively of rich white landowners.

 

They drafted our constitution under the guise of representing "the people", but unless my knowledge of history is way off, the only people who had a hand in drafting it were a few dozen...rich white people.

 

They proceeded to conduct business in a manner which suited their own best interests; Only other rich white land owners were allowed to vote, meaning no women, poor whites, free blacks (most were SLAVES), or indigenous people had representation.

 

The foundation is the most important part of any construction, and ours was deeply flawed.

 

Now clearly, times have changed (except for that little nugget concerning the government being made up of what is now almost exclusively rich white people). There is no more slavery, we've progressed past the point of having segregated bathrooms, segregated blood banks for black and white soldiers, we even have some black influence in government, business, and the media. But to argue that the institutional racism on which our country was founded has absolutely no long reaching effects is as preposterous as insinuating that the slaughter/herding onto reservations of Native Americans under the guise of "expansion" has none either.

 

A kid growing up in the projects of Roxbury, Massachusetts simply does not have the same chance of procuring a solid education or a good job as a kid growing up in Lexington.

 

A chance? Yes. But not the same.

 

Cosby is attacking symptoms, which is always simpler than attacking cause.

No, THIS mentality is why there ARE so many problems in the black community. The ready-made, always handy "Well, it's racism" excuse for failure guarantees that success never comes to you.

 

Again, ASIANS don't have this problem and God knows they didn't have a good time. Italians were treated like shit for years --- they've managed to move on.

 

Why can't blacks?

 

Because the civil rights groups get MONEY off of their suffering.

 

They can exploit the problems to make themselves rich, so rather than focus on the CORE problems --- breakdown of the black family, lack of stressing on education and achievement in the black community --- they find it better to blame the bogey man of "institutional racism" --- and whites are so cowed by the fear of being called racists that they won't stand up and call the excuse what it is --- bullshit.

 

Hate to break it to you, but what happened 100 years ago DOESN'T have any bearing on your life. What happened FIFTY years ago has no bearing on your life. If a group wishes to mourn the past than look to the future, then they will never have a future, and the ONLY people's fault that would be would be theirs.

Anyone who truly thinks everyone in this country, regardless of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation, gets the same opportunities is only fooling himself.

This is the downside to capitalism -- it's automatically assumed that those who aren't looking to become billionaires or be put in leadership positions in corporations are contributing to a problem. I refuse to accept that a middle class black family that's crime-free and drug-free that occasionally uses the words "axed" or "dawg" is contributing to anyone's problems.

Nor does Cosby. But if you expect to get a good job while using such asinine terms as "axed" and "dawg", it isn't going to happen for you. And when you speak as if you're uneducated and, thus, don't get a job --- IT IS NOT RACISM. It is the applicant sounding like an uneducated person.

There is a huge double standard in terms of race and what's acceptable in America. Rappers are criticized on a regular basis for violent lyrics, but Johnny Cash has free reign to shoot a man in Reno just to watch him die, for example.

If rappers didn't rap about violence, rape, and misogyny SO DAMNED FREQUENTLY, it wouldn't be a problem. But they do it ALL of the time and have all but glorified that lifestyle, to the detriment to their own community.

Cosby is blaming a universal epidemic on a singular group of people, and that's what's so sad about this. I understand that he's addressing the NAACP, but he fails to realize that the same problems exist in white America, but it's considered a less taboo subject.

Why would Cosby discuss the problems of white society? It's not whites that constantly gripe about how they have no shot at the American Dream. Bill is worried about the black community and, thus, discussed the black community.

 

Whites having this problem doesn't change that blacks have the problem.

The issue of race is never addressed when a crazy white guy sends people exploding packages in the mail or bombs a federal building in Oklahoma City, but it's definitely an issue when a former athlete stabs his ex-wife. It's all simply a matter of interpretation.

Yet a black man kills a white man, it's seldom called a hate crime. Vice versa?

 

Heck, have ANY blacks ever been charged with committing hate crimes?

-=Mike

[NoCalMike 0]

So, do you believe any racism still does exist? I mean to say "ASIANS figured it out" is absurd. Once again, you are just ignoring the differences attributed to the class structure. Go to any bad neighborhood whether it is in LA, or Kentucky, or Brooklyn, and it is riddled with Crime, and it has NOTHING TO DO with that race is living there. Crime is definately attributed to Poverty because it is seen as survival basically. Obviously you don't know very much about the Asian street gangs in the poorer neighborhoods. No, because the typical asian stereotype is a guy sitting behind a computer creating some software.

[Guest MikeSC]

So, do you believe any racism still does exist?

Some --- but companies only see green, not black and white.

I mean to say "ASIANS figured it out" is absurd. Once again, you are just ignoring the  differences attributed to the class structure.

Asians who were in concentration camps in the 40's had kids who outperformed white kids on tests.

Go to any bad neighborhood whether it is in LA, or Kentucky, or Brooklyn, and it is riddled with Crime, and it has NOTHING TO DO with that race is living there.

Nobody said it did.

Crime is definately attributed to Poverty because it is seen as survival basically.

Then why wasn't crime out of control during the Depression?

Obviously you don't know very much about the Asian street gangs in the poorer neighborhoods.  No, because the typical asian stereotype is a guy sitting behind a computer creating some software.

Don't pass feelings that cause you pangs of liberal guilt onto others. If YOU view Asians as such, that is YOUR problem.

-=Mike

[Styles 0]

Anyone who truly thinks everyone in this country, regardless of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation, gets the same opportunities is only fooling himself. This is the downside to capitalism -- it's automatically assumed that those who aren't looking to become billionaires or be put in leadership positions in corporations are contributing to a problem. I refuse to accept that a middle class black family that's crime-free and drug-free that occasionally uses the words "axed" or "dawg" is contributing to anyone's problems.

Cosby is speaking about the black youths who are having trouble finding jobs because of their lack of dedication to education and poor speaking skills. That's who's at risk, no one cares about the set middle class family who uses some slang in their homes.

Your Johnny Cash analogy to rap is flawed too, because the point is, thousands of black youths use rap star as role models, falsely believing that if they forgoe an education and act like "gangstas" they'll become rich and famous, to the point of epidemic. Again, this is not ALL, but to deny it's a big problem in inner cities is just turning a blind eye. White kids for the most part aren't influenced to "kill a man in Reno" as you say because they hear it in music. If it was a problem, an issue would be made, it's not.

I've heard from many inner city school teachers who all cite that the worst thing they witness, is there ARE many black youths who want to learn and suceed, but are ridiculed and teased because they're "acting white" and thus are given into peer pressure to blow of school in order to fit in better. It's a real problem that has nothing to do with racism. It needs to be addressed by the leaders of the community and celebrities like Cosby who are in a position to speak out. Obviously, the parents need to be on the ball as well, but in many cases that is not avaliable for various reasons.

Remember, if you have a problem, pointing to someone else and saying "well what about them!" is not going to do anything but shift the blame, you will still be in the same cruddy situation unless you do something about it yourself.

[Hektik 0]

With Cosby, I think his rants are more of him just trying to show tough love. It is him telling his community things that is taboo for whites to say. I don't completly agree with him, but he has enough respect in his community that they might listen.

 

As far as the whole "gangsta rap causes bad behavior" issue, I don't buy it. You guys make it seem like before gangsta rap, there were no gangstas. I will be the first one to tell you that there were. I grew up in South San Diego/Tijuana right on the US/Mexico border, so I know a few things about gangs. I knew growing up that there were gang members hanging out in front of my apartment complex before Ice T or Eazy E even realesed their first rap single. As a kid I knew gang members who were 40 years old (yes, I know that it is very sad). Rap music is not influencing kids in ghettos and barrios. As cliched as it might sound, It is there enviroment that makes them become "thugs." If you don't have at least one parent/relative/guardian who gives a shit about you, your fate is pretty much sealed.

[Vyce 0]

You know, since I live in the Washington D.C. area, and the majority of the people whom I work with / go to school with are black, I've had the opportunity to talk with a lot of African-Americans about what Bill has had to say. And I was kind of surprised at how much a lot of them AGREE with the Coz.

 

They’re not as….angry as Bill seems to be, but by and large, most of the older people I talked with (middle-aged and older) agree. Many of the younger folks disagree.

 

So perhaps this is a cultural thing, based upon age. But apparently, Bill is actually vocalizing the opinions of a significant percentage of the black community.

[Dr. Tom 0]

But apparently, Bill is actually vocalizing the opinions of a significant percentage of the black community.

I think that's accurate. But the popular black "leadership" (groups like the NAACP) will say that it's inaccurate because their agenda suffers unless someone else caused the problems.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Then why wasn't crime out of control during the Depression?

 

Nobody had anything worth stealing.

[Guest MikeSC]

Then why wasn't crime out of control during the Depression?

 

Nobody had anything worth stealing.

Some people actually made FORTUNES during the Depression.

-=Mike

...Heck, my family made a nice chunk of change during the Depression...

[Jorge Gorgeous 0]

I think a major problem is the pursuit of a quick-fix. Deep economic problems inspire people to try and find solutions that usually lay outside the boundaries of sound logic or probability. Whether it be such deplorable actions as selling drugs, petty theft or prositution or such idealistic pipe dreams as a career in rap music or athletics. The culture and economics of the situation are such that the time and hardwork that go into getting into college are traded for some kind of quick fix. It isn't only in lower-class black America, either. It exists amongst all races, and amongst all class levels - whether its some black kid who thinks hes going to get a record deal or some white kid taking a $12/hr job instead of going to college because it seems like a lot of money at the time. All Cosby was doing was addressing these problems amongst his own racial community, and we should all be so lucky.

[The Mandarin 0]

Hey, it's Bill Cosby's birthday!

 

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BILL

 

 

 

 

..wait, that's Scatman Crothers.

 

Oh well.

 

RIP Scatman.

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

http://slate.msn.com/id/2103794/?GT1=4244

 

Bill Cosby

America's granddad gets ornery.

By Debra Dickerson

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 11:22 AM PT

 

Lately, Bill Cosby has been making a comeback—as Shelby Steele. The 67-year-old comedian—who became America's Dad in the 1980s and America's Granddad more recently—has launched a series of surprising assaults on the pathologies of low-income blacks. "They think they're hip. They can't read; they can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere," he said in Chicago at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition and Citizenship Education Fund's annual conference on July 1.

 

This followed an attack launched at the NAACP's Brown v. Board of Education 50th anniversary gala at Constitution Hall in Washington, D.C., in May. No laugh tracks there. The Cos has chastised young black men for "beating up your women because you can't find a job," blasted poor parenting in the ghettoes, heaped scorn on Ebonics, and lambasted aimless blacks for squandering the hard-won gains of the civil rights movement. Symbolically, he made his comments in high-profile "public" (read: where whites could hear) venues.

 

Many critics expressed shock that the beloved figure of Americana—the genial observational humorist; the wise paterfamilias of the beloved The Cosby Show (1984-1992); the winner of the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2002—should offer such a pointed, and conservative, political message. Yet those who were fooled by Cosby's silliness into surprise at his newfound ferocity were just that—fooled. Cosby has long been a good "race" man on an all-too-serious mission. There was always darkness in the Cos' light.

 

From humble beginnings in the projects of Philadelphia, raised by a domestic and a laborer, Cosby parlayed his impish nature and keen insights into the transcendent in daily life into a successful comedy career during the early 1960s heyday of stand-up. In 1963, he was chosen as the first black guest host of The Tonight Show and in 1965 as the first black star on a white drama. On I Spy, he and Robert Culp played intelligence agents gone undercover as an international tennis player and coach. Overnight Cosby became the "Jackie Robinson of television," a crucial figure in bringing unapologetic but unconfrontational blackness into the mainstream.

 

It is almost impossible now to convey the watershed I Spy represented in American life. Those were the days when blacks called each other in wonderment to make sure that no one missed seeing one of their own in America's public square. That Cosby's "Scotty" was an abstemious, multilingual Rhodes Scholar and devoted family man while Culp's "Kelly" was a womanizing boozehound from the wrong side of the tracks was no accident. Cosby himself lobbied to make Scotty the brains of the outfit, the one who traveled the world and tended to national security matters.

 

Nonradical elements of the black community always embraced strategic racial inroads like this as exactly the type of gains they were trying to make—securing a place at the table instead of dismantling the table. Radicals like the Black Panthers, socialists, and Amiri Baraka, of course, considered Cosby a sell-out—a judgment for which his recent comments merely provide them the final proof.

 

Once Cosby found the upward path, he worked hard to stay there and to help bring the race along with him. His philosophy was always to play by the rules so as to beat the master at his own game—to be clearly black-identified, but not, you know, militant about it. Like that of Nat King Cole, Flip Wilson, and Diahann Carroll, television's other black pioneers, Cosby's appeal lay in presenting the universality of black life "apolitically," on its own terms (or, if you're Amiri Baraka, in the least discomforting way possible for whites). Their sudden presence in public life was all the rebuke that pre-Civil Rights Act America could face.

 

But Cosby's critics are wrong to say Cosby is either "incognegro" or an appeaser. The man always had a plan. While his humor is nonconfrontational, his attitude has been anything but; like Oprah Winfrey and Magic Johnson's inner-city focused business empire, Cosby sees the acquisition of power as a civil rights strategy. He's worked to be in the meetings where decisions are made rather than outside picketing them, though he was an ardent supporter of the civil rights movement and used his shows to pay homage to it.

 

And he succeeded. Once his star took off, Cosby was rarely without either a sitcom, a game show, an animated series, best selling non-fiction, or a comedy album riding the top of the charts. His power allowed him, among many other good deeds, to support black higher education by donating millions to schools, sending deserving, hardscrabble youngsters he'd read about in the newspaper to college, and challenging universities to ambitious fundraising goals by offering generous matching funds of his own—facts he's been advertising in a PR counteroffensive after the harsh reaction his recent comments provoked.

 

So why now? Why is Bill Cosby suddenly so sour, so publicly? Perhaps it was watching one of his four daughters struggle with a drug habit in the 1980s. Perhaps it was losing his only son, Ennis, to random violence in 1997. (Ghouls click here for a guide to the murder site.) Perhaps it was having to acknowledge having cheated on his wife of 40 years, Camille, who is nearly as beloved by blacks as he is. To make matters worse, the news of this infidelity broke when a young woman tried to extort hush money from him, and he helped the FBI send his (probable) love child to prison. But perhaps the final straw was watching Eddie Murphy reprise his history-making I Spy role on the big screen in 2002, not as a jet-setting, high-minded patriot but as a jive-talking, barely literate boxer who couldn't care less about national security; Cosby has long been vocal in his disgust with what he sees as the minstrelsy, vulgarity, and low artistic value of modern black comedy, film, and television. Don't even get him started on rap music.

 

"I'm a tired man," he said recently, but he wasn't talking about the energy required to defend himself. He was talking about still fighting battles his generation thought would have been long won by now, and he's talking about how draining it is to watch black complacency with its pockets of stagnation. But true acolytes will recognize the Cos' own personal progression through the stages of life, territory he just about owns. One of Cosby's standards bits was in ribbing his mother for coddling her grandchildren after having been so tough on her children. "That's not the same woman that raised me," he'd claim in mock confusion. Watching our beloved Cos take his people so publicly to the woodshed, it's our turn now to marvel at the evolution of the man we thought we knew so well.

 

Debra Dickerson is the author of The End of Blackness and An American Story.