It SHOULD be noted...

[Guest MikeSC]

I wish you would go back to not posting, Cerebus.

Likewise. By the way, when when was I not posting?

Sarcastic remark referring back to Mike's dismissal of valid point. Thought you might have caught that.

Heck, why don't YOU stop posting, too?

 

Your next valid point will be your first.

-=Mike

[BX 0]

Because I'm "stalking you," Silly.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Sarcastic remark referring back to Mike's dismissal of valid point. Thought you might have caught that.

 

Where was the valid point? I must have missed it between the "feeding a person pork" and "torture..."

[BX 0]

Obviously, purposely feeding these prisoners pork, while an inexcusable violation of their religion (and I know you don't give a shit), isn't torture.

 

However, that was directed at Mike because of his tendency to completely ignore most other people's input in these threads, or to resort to flaming when he can't think of anything else to say. It's completely childish, and I can't see why he can't keep his bullshit to a minimum, unless he's an idiot.

 

Vyce, Dr. Tom, Cerebus & others manage to discuss these issues without resorting to that shit 9.9 out of 10 times. Hell, as condesending as Marney is, she'll at least back up her logic while she's verbally raping someone. She makes Mike look like a one-handed kid with a spitball laden slingshot.

[Guest Cerebus]

Obviously, purposely feeding these prisoners pork, while an inexcusable violation of their religion (and I know you don't give a shit), isn't torture.

 

However, that was directed at Mike because of his tendency to completely ignore most other people's input in these threads, or to resort to flaming when he can't think of anything else to say. It's completely childish, and I can't see why he can't keep his bullshit to a minimum, unless he's an idiot.

 

Vyce, Dr. Tom, Cerebus & others manage to discuss these issues without resorting to that shit 9.9 out of 10 times. Hell, as condesending as Marney is, she'll at least back up her logic while she's verbally raping someone. She makes Mike look like a one-handed kid with a spitball laden slingshot.

I see you interperted me saying that forcing prisoners to eat pork (which I STILL don't see a source for) is not torture equals me not giving a shit. Nice. It makes me take your OMGMIKEISACHILDISHASSHOLE crap way more seriously.

[BX 0]

I was addressing kkk. I'm not stupid enough to believe you wouldn't give a shit about one of the tenet's of Islam.

 

not torture equals me not giving a shit

 

I'm sorry you drew this conclusion, for it wasn't my intention to convey that.

[Guest Cerebus]

Gah, should read more thoroughly b4 i post....meh.

[Guest MikeSC]

Obviously, purposely feeding these prisoners pork, while an inexcusable violation of their religion (and I know you don't give a shit), isn't torture.

 

However, that was directed at Mike because of his tendency to completely ignore most other people's input in these threads, or to resort to flaming when he can't think of anything else to say. It's completely childish, and I can't see why he can't keep his bullshit to a minimum, unless he's an idiot.

 

Vyce, Dr. Tom, Cerebus & others manage to discuss these issues without resorting to that shit 9.9 out of 10 times. Hell, as condesending as Marney is, she'll at least back up her logic while she's verbally raping someone. She makes Mike look like a one-handed kid with a spitball laden slingshot.

What, EXACTLY, is this big point is being ignored?

 

That unsubstantiated reports of prisoners being fed is somehow comparable to torture?

 

Guess what --- THEY'RE PRISONERS. They don't get to eat whatever they want.

 

I guess if we caught Hitler and made him eat meat, that would have made us as bad as him, right?

 

Fact of the matter is, more than MOST people, I back up almost anything I say. Citations APLENTY out of me. You seem to miss the LINKS I put up all over my posts to back up my points.

 

Not shocking, since you have this insane "vendetta" against me for reasons nobody will be able to fathom.

 

You simply piss and moan and then bitch when your pissing and moaning is dismissed for being, well, pissing and moaning. Why not try BACKING up your damned points once in a while and I will give them the respect of a refutation, rather than a dismissal.

-=Mike

...Your beef is simply irrational --- par for the course for you.

[BX 0]

What points should I have to back up? That you're an idiot? There's plenty of examples of this, but here's one recent jem that any frequent visitor to CE would abso-fucking-lutely love...

 

glenn, I can handle you creating an infinite number of threads based on weak news.

 

Starting them for NON-news is a bit much.

-=Mike

 

From: NEWS on the Nwa Tna Video Game from E3 !, Credit: ign.com

 

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?showtopic=55451

[Guest SideFXs]

Ok, dudes, back to the original point of this thread:

 

Well, it's been about a week --- and shockingly enough, the Berg beheading is a non-story nowadays in the press, while the prison abuse scandal is still a huge story --- even though it stopped months ago.

 

For a group who constantly claims to not have a bias, the treatment of the two stories is a little baffling.

 

                    -=Mike

I am hoping that most American's, that are not part of the wacko left, see the media bias. But maybe a few facts will help here, at TSM:

 

*In 1992, 89% of Washington bureau chiefs and reporters voted for Bill Clinton. Only 7% voted for George Bush.

 

*The New York Times has not endorsed a Republican Presidential Candidate, since Eisenhower, in 1950.

 

Endless coverage about Abu Ghraib. Calls for Rumsfeld resignation, in the media. But when has the media sharply focused on the terrorist atrocities?

 

And just the latest insult. Not one alphabet channel national network gave live coverage to President Bush's prime-time speech, on Iraq. The main-stream media, who focuses so negatively, incessantly, every day about Iraq, will not give the Commander in Chief, of the United States Armed Forces, his voice to America concerning the events, in Iraq.

[tommytomlin 0]

Endless coverage about Abu Ghraib. Calls for Rumsfeld resignation, in the media. But when has the media sharply focused on the terrorist atrocities?

See the months of September-December, 2001.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Obviously, purposely feeding these prisoners pork, while an inexcusable violation of their religion (and I know you don't give a shit), isn't torture.

There must be some haze or something on my PC screen because I still don't see it.

 

Now that homicide bombing which took place at a place of worship on a Jewish holy day a while back that killed around 30 people (I think that was the total, but I may be wrong; all these homicide bombings kinda mesh into one) -- THAT is an inexcusable violation of someone's religion.

 

*Lefty mode on* And if you can't see that, it's OK -- you're just ignorant. *Lefty mode off...*

[Styles 0]

If you 2 are going to have a beef, take it to HD and it better be kosher...because that might violate someone's religion...

 

Thanks I'll be here all week...

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Thanks I'll be here all week...

Do you have to be?...

[Styles 0]

Thanks I'll be here all week...

Do you have to be?...

Security, please escort Mr. KKK to his vehicle...

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

As long as I get to take your microphone, too.

 

BTW: You seem to know a bit about the Middle East conflict. Are you aware of that example I mentioned earlier in this thread?...

[Styles 0]

As long as I get to take your microphone, too.

 

BTW: You seem to know a bit about the Middle East conflict. Are you aware of that example I mentioned earlier in this thread?...

I believe you're referring to the bombing of 2 synegogues in Instanbul, Turkey which killed 25 and injured 300 carried out by Al Queda members...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/18/...sion/index.html

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Nah, these places of worship took place in Israel.

 

But what happened in Turkey was VERY insensitive, too...

[Guest MikeSC]

What points should I have to back up? That you're an idiot? There's plenty of examples of this, but here's one recent jem that any frequent visitor to CE would abso-fucking-lutely love...

 

glenn, I can handle you creating an infinite number of threads based on weak news.

 

Starting them for NON-news is a bit much.

-=Mike

 

From: NEWS on the Nwa Tna Video Game from E3 !, Credit: ign.com

 

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?showtopic=55451

No, you're just pissy because I treat you like the useless troll you are. Stick to HD and let the people with IQ's that hover above room temperature talk.

 

As for your example --- it actually proved the point I made. Thanks.

See the months of September-December, 2001.

You mean the same press that decided that showing footage of the attacks after about 2 weeks was too much?

 

You mean them?

 

The same press that BITCHED about the "lack of opposition" to Bush after a month?

 

Those guys?

-=Mike

[gWIL 0]

Yeah, seems like a good spot for this so what the hell

from topplerummy.org

 

 

Nick Berg Video a False Flag Fake

 

Our hearts go out to Berg's family and friends. From all accounts he was a very nice man. It is a true tragedy that his body was hacked up for someone's political gain. However, we vehemently disagree with the official story that he death was due to beheading by 'Zarqawi'. We want to know what really happened and why our government is lying to its own people.

 

We have made the difficult decision to mirror the best copy of the video we were able to find. Despite all the hype, or perhaps because of it, finding a quality copy to further the critical thought and discussion necessary for a democratic society has proven very difficult for some.

 

Any link *MUST* direct to this page and not link the video itself. If current traffic continues we may need to begin using advertising to help pay for the insane amount of bandwidth we are using. The video currently has over 40,000 hits.

 

Major Update and Rewrite 4:45 pm Mountain Time 5-23-04

 

Read our recent Hate Mail!

 

Please check out our Links Pages and the original ToppleRummy site

48 Problems with the Video and Official Story

 

Click Here for the Video

 

 

Background on Nick Berg

 

1] Berg had connections to al Qaeda terrorists strong enough to be questioned by the FBI. His email was used by accused terrorist Zacharias Moussaoui. He reportedly gave his email to an affiliate of Moussaoui's while on a bus ride in Oklahoma. During this period he was arrested several times for vagrancy on his college campus where he was apparently homeless.

 

2] The United States and the Iraqi police detained Berg for 13 days, not releasing him until his father filed suit. He was detained as a suspected Israeli spy. The US now denies it had anything to do with the detention despite correspondence to the contrary. The Iraqi police also deny any involvement in his detention. They are playing hot potato with it.

 

3] When Berg was detained he, a Jew, had a copy of the Koran and an anti-semetic book entitled 'The Jewish Problem'. That is just strange. Some have speculated the Koran may have been to help him travel in an Islamic nation, but if Berg took such preparations why didn't he have the Israeli stamp in his passport put in a temporary add in page; This would be normal for someone traveling to both Israel and a Muslim nation since both have problems with the visa stamps of the other.

 

4] Nick Berg's dad and Berg's tower company appear on a Free Republic 'enemies' list. The list isn't too long. I'm not on it under any alias I've used.

 

5] Nick Berg's tower company is not registered in his home state of Pennsylvania. While not a legal requirement, state officials report it would be nearly impossible to do business without registering.

 

6] One of the towers Berg worked on, the biggest and most damaged one, was next to the prison.

 

7] No one can account for Berg's whereabouts from between April 10th (when his father believes he was killed) and the day his body was found. He looks very clean and well fed to have been held prisoner by savages for over a month.

 

8] The US has not stated how his body was identified. It didn't have a head. It should have taken some time to ID. Reports have stated that 'his headless body was found ..." His body was identified and his parents notified before the video aired.

 

9] Berg's body, though he was a civilian, was flown by the military to Dover Air Force Base. According to Department of State Publication 10391, Bureau of Consular Affairs, Revised September 1996, "The U.S. Government cannot pay to have your body buried overseas or returned to the United States." This is a publication intended for Americans living / working abroad as Berg was. His parents requested to be there when it arrived but were denied.

 

 

 

Berg was dead when beheaded, execution faked

 

10] No blood spurts from his neck as he is supposed to be dying. The amount of blood on the floor is much smaller than it should have been. He should have died from bleeding out and this would have resulted in a couple of liters of blood spurting from his neck. According to medical experts he should have died from bleeding out. Even if his spine was severed quickly he should have continued to bleed until his heart ran out of blood; this was the reason for having straw under the guillotines during the French revolution. These heads would also remain animated for some time.

 

To see what an expert surgeon has said about the lack of blood click here.

Another doctor, a surgeon and forensic expert has commented here.

 

11] No blood gets on the hand of 'Zarqawi' even though it was in front of Berg's neck when he should have been bleeding out. Medical experts have commented that blood should have spurted several feet and gotten all over the nearby men.

 

12] Berg doesn't struggle or even flinch when his head is sawed off with a western style military knife. Any movements can be explained by the way his captors are moving him. Observe that they tension in the direction of the motion, not the opposite direction as if they were holding him still.

 

13] The body makes no death throws. None. Nada. Most animals, when they die, convulse.

 

14] Almost nothing dripped from the recently severed head. The face seems to be stiff and there seems to be makeup on it. Rigamortis appears to have set in.

 

15] Berg continues to 'scream' after his windpipe has been cut through.

 

 

 

The Nick Berg Video has many problems

 

16] The whole time line is completely confused. There are many inconsistencies in the time line. The most obvious is that he was 'found Monday over the weekend'.

 

17] Between Berg being knocked to the floor and then hacked up, the video cuts for no reason. Any amount of time could have elapsed here.

 

18] Some people believe this is a two camera shoot. I don't think so since the time code font and location, as well as the color balance, seem the same. If they are two different cameras I think they are the same model, which would be odd. Two cameras would mean a higher level of editing sophistication and that makes me really wonder why the editor would choose not to synch up the sound, etc.

 

19] The website to which the video was released was down within 90 minutes. All major news organizations supposedly learned of this video and obtained copies within that time. Al Jazeera was unable to access the website 90 minutes after the release.

 

20] The speaker fumbles the transcript several times and goes back to the same page several times. It appeared he was having trouble reading his own statement. He found five pages of a two sides two page statement to read. There is no matching pause for turning the pages.

 

21] The speaker is reading from left to right. Arabic (except numbers) is read from right to left.

 

22] The time codes jump around in way not explainable solely by a two camera set up.

 

23] Some people have suggested that the audio is just out of time synch. If this is the case then it is out of time synch by substainly different amount at different locations, including an audio cut out of 5 seconds. An analysis of the video can be found at liberty forums.

 

24] During the hacking up the video camera zooms in indistinctly just when you would expect the filmer to be trying for the most horrid details. If this was a two camera filming, why wasn't the other footage used?

 

25] The guy hacking off the head has a black hood, there is a very subtle cut at the end (after Thy Will Be Done) and another guy switches places, the tall one with the white mask and black hands. The time code jumps over a minute.

 

The men in the video weren't Arab 'al-Qaeda Terrorists'

 

26] 'Zarqawi' is wearing a large gold ring. Islam reportedly forbids men to wear gold jewelry. Even if he didn't care he'd have to know the Arab world would consider him a fraud.

 

27] The rifle is a Galil variant. This is an Israeli rifle and is considered to be unreliable. Arab militants wouldn't use them. The guns are all either Galils or Mac's.

 

28] Zarqawi is thought to be dead and is known to have an artificial leg. Clearly the man hacking off the head didn't. The CIA has previously reported both of these facts and has made no acknowledgement of, or explanation for, changing their minds.

 

29] Zarqawi is known to have a tattoo on the back of his left hand of three green dots. The man hacking off the head didn't have a tattoo on his hand.

 

30] All the men had nice WHITE hands. Except in the last 20-30 seconds when the face appears to have been digitally lightened, the hands are as white or whiter than Berg's skin. Arab terrorists don't have white hands. UPDATE, the last man has black hands, this is the very tall one who swaps in at the end to hold up the head.

 

31] All of the men had identical, nice, clean clothing. It looked new. This is unlikely for rogue combatants in a war zone. It is likely if someone needed some 'terrorist' clothing for a video.

 

32] Western sports style white shoes are very uncommon in Arab nations. I didn't notice this but it was pointed out by a friend who lived in the Mid east. I looked at the current National Geographic on Iraq and could not find one pair of tennis shoes.

 

33] If Zarqawi was in the video, why didn't he show his face? It is known to the US already. It would have established the video's authenticity. It would have inspired fear. So why's it covered?

 

34] The real Zarqawi speaks with a Jordanian accent. According to a CNN mid-eastern expert who is a fluent translator, this 'Zarwaqi' did not speak with a Jordanian accent. She dismissed the possibility of it being him out of hand. The CIA seems to be ignoring this and is virtually certain that the voices match. Why is the CIA so blatantly lying?

 

35] The 'militants' stood with a Western posture. When they moved in, their movements were rehearsed. Each knew where he was going when the action happened as if it were pre-planned.

 

36] Three of the 'Arab militants' brought their left hands to their faces during the video. The left hand is unclean in Arabic nations. It is used to wipe one's ass. The left hand is taboo. An Arab wouldn't eat with it or offer it to someone, they are unlikely to touch their eyes with it, it is unclean.

 

37] Some people have said the men were only adjusting their scarves. If this is so, why aren't they used to wearing such clothing?

 

38] An Islamic extremist would know the proper way to behead someone. It is the chosen form of execution in Saudi Arabia. It is accomplished with one clean sword stroke to the neck. The person sawing off the head obviously had a great deal of difficulty doing so, owing to the poor choice of blade and technique.

 

39] The registrant for the 'al Qaeda' website in Malaysia at which the video was originally released is Arab Press House in London, UK. Published at this address are ASHARQ AL-AWSAT, 'The Leading Daily Arab International Newspaper' with a circulation of around a Quarter-Million, and several Arab news magazines. This is a news service, not 'al Qaeda'.

 

40] Except for the individual reading the prepared statement, the only words said by the other 'terrorists' were "Allah Akbar" over and over. The speech was somewhat slurred. The accent differs significantly from the reader. An Arabic language expert has stated that the other individuals were likely not native speakers of Arabic.

 

41] This video came out just when it would help the Bush regime the most. Fucktards everywhere are now using it to justify widespread US war crimes. Hardly the sort of reaction Islamic militants would desire, but obviously quite predictable.

 

42] Berg is wearing an orange uniform identical to those used by the US for detainees.

 

43] The walls and baseboards are identical to the Abu Ghraib prison. The room size is institutional in size.

 

44] Berg is shown in a chair identical to those in the prison. These chairs are not extremely rare, but the odds of both chairs being identical is slim.

 

45] At 13:45:58 an individual with white skin, a military outfit, and a military hat identical to one worn by a guard at Abu Ghraib passes quickly through the lower right of the frame. This person's side re-enters several times. At 13:46:26 their left ear and hat is clearly visible in the lower right of the frame for a second. They have a pen in their left pocket where it would be impossible to reach with their right hand. Left handed individuals are taboo in Islamic cultures, you can not be a left-handed Muslim Arab, you can not write with your left hand. For more a complete analysis of this scene click here.

 

46] The video never mentions the word 'Al Qaeda', it uses the word al qaed. These are two different words, one is a name and means 'The Base'. The other is not a name and translates as 'one who sits by and does nothing'. This translation is from the CNN arab language expert. She reports that any fluent speaker of Arabic would notice this difference.

 

47] The speaker in the tape didn't seem to know the correct arabic date and instead stated a day several days after the video was released.

 

48] Near the end of the video, after the chanting stops, a Western voice says "Thy Will be Done", it then repeats itself and the video instantly cuts. Hear it at Breakfornews.coms

 

Our Conclusion, The Nick Berg Video is a Fake

 

If it were for just one or two of the above problems, I could write it off to strange coincidences or inaccurate information. Given the scope of the errors with the official story, it is obvious we are being lied to about the video. It is very difficult to say, ever, who ran a false-flag operation. Who ever made this video had motive and opportunity which narrows it down mostly to Western interests. It is certain that Nick Berg was not executed via decapitation by 'Al-Qaeda Terrorist al-Zarqawi'. It seems quite likely that the video was shot in Abu Ghraib, which would narrow the killers down to those with secure access to that facility.

[BUTT 0]

That is one strange web site. I really would like to be able to add something to that, but I really can't. If what they say is true, then yes it does seem a little weird. But, as it is, I think they're full of shit. However, one thing did catch my eye.

 

36] Three of the 'Arab militants' brought their left hands to their faces during the video. The left hand is unclean in Arabic nations. It is used to wipe one's ass. The left hand is taboo. An Arab wouldn't eat with it or offer it to someone, they are unlikely to touch their eyes with it, it is unclean.

 

What, do they not have soap over there?