Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Teddy -- the stick he carried was huge... Hmm... Dubya's tough talk vs Teddy's big stick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eclipse 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 I was alive during the Reagan era, but too little to remember it. All I know is that my mom always told me that Reagan was the best president so far in the 20th Century, and no other guy so far (Clinton & Bush) will top him. RIP President Reagan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Hmm... Dubya's tough talk vs Teddy's big stick. Don't forget Grover Cleveland. He was hoss-like... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen Joseph 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Dood, no one them could knock over Taft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Dood, no one them could knock over Taft. Nobody could screw over enough people at once like Hoover did with the depression. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 FDR may not have been good in the ring, but boy he could sure cut a promo... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Hmm... Dubya's tough talk vs Teddy's big stick. Don't forget Grover Cleveland. He was hoss-like... Cleveland was quite the badass... if you said something he didn't like, he would simply slam his fist down on his desk and that was enough for you to get the point Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 FDR could run over the other Presidents with his wheel chair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted June 8, 2004 FDR could run over the other Presidents with his wheel chair. Yeah... but Teddy could jam his 'big stick' into the wheels causing the chair to flip Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Yeah... but Teddy could jam his 'big stick' into the wheels causing the chair to flip And then we would have a President Vs. Another President Who Is Also His Relative brawl for it all! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Yeah... but Teddy could jam his 'big stick' into the wheels causing the chair to flip And then we would have a President Vs. Another President Who Is Also His Relative brawl for it all! Can't wait for the SWERVE~! involving that jezabelle Eleanor as she costs Franklin the match by giving him a lowblow, setting him up as Teddy delivers the Bully Pulpit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn... Well, Morrissey said he wished Bush died instead of Reagan. The audience cheered. Thank God fans of shitty music are such utter shitheads politically, too. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn... Well, Morrissey said he wished Bush died instead of Reagan. The audience cheered. Thank God fans of shitty music are such utter shitheads politically, too. -=Mike Where/when was this? If you think Morrissey's music is shitty, well then you suck. A lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn... Well, Morrissey said he wished Bush died instead of Reagan. The audience cheered. Thank God fans of shitty music are such utter shitheads politically, too. -=Mike Where/when was this? If you think Morrissey's music is shitty, well then you suck. A lot. His Dublin show this week. And he sucks. Hard. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn... Well, Morrissey said he wished Bush died instead of Reagan. The audience cheered. Thank God fans of shitty music are such utter shitheads politically, too. -=Mike Where/when was this? If you think Morrissey's music is shitty, well then you suck. A lot. His Dublin show this week. And he sucks. Hard. -=Mike Boo-urns to you. Morrissey Is God.... ....should be here any minute to tell you why Morrissey is really good. But I don't want to turn this into a music discussion, so I will just point out that Ronald Reagan was a damn good president. Where would you guys rank him among the presidents of the twentieth century? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Boo-urns to you. Morrissey Is God.... ....should be here any minute to tell you why Morrissey is really good. But I don't want to turn this into a music discussion, so I will just point out that Ronald Reagan was a damn good president. Where would you guys rank him among the presidents of the twentieth century? I'll ignore your music tastes as, well, I am hardly fervent about music. As for Reagan, he's up there with FDR. He took an economy that was as bad as it had been since the Depression and a country with NO optimism or faith in the future --- and rebuilt it. He forced the ending of the Cold War. Words don't do justice to his greatness. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Reagan is either 1 or 2 depending on my mood. FDR would be the other one. Like Mike said, those were the two best and most influential (in a positive way at least) presidents of the 20th Century. The second tier consists of Wilson, Teddy & Eisenhower in no particular order. Nobody else was that remarkable. Carter was the worst, and possibly the worst in US history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Reagan is either 1 or 2 depending on my mood. FDR would be the other one. Like Mike said, those were the two best and most influential (in a positive way at least) presidents of the 20th Century. The second tier consists of Wilson, Teddy & Eisenhower in no particular order. Nobody else was that remarkable. I'd, personally, replace Wilson with Truman. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Reagan is either 1 or 2 depending on my mood. FDR would be the other one. Like Mike said, those were the two best and most influential (in a positive way at least) presidents of the 20th Century. The second tier consists of Wilson, Teddy & Eisenhower in no particular order. Nobody else was that remarkable. I'd, personally, replace Wilson with Truman. -=Mike Truman botched the Korean War, lost China to the Communists and let Stalin get the bomb. Wilson was let down by a crappy Congress. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teke184 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2004 Well, this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn... Well, Morrissey said he wished Bush died instead of Reagan. The audience cheered. Thank God fans of shitty music are such utter shitheads politically, too. -=Mike Where/when was this? If you think Morrissey's music is shitty, well then you suck. A lot. His Dublin show this week. And he sucks. Hard. -=Mike Boo-urns to you. Morrissey Is God.... ....should be here any minute to tell you why Morrissey is really good. But I don't want to turn this into a music discussion, so I will just point out that Ronald Reagan was a damn good president. Where would you guys rank him among the presidents of the twentieth century? Presidents of the 20th Century- *William McKinley Teddy Roosevelt William H. Taft Woodrow Wilson Warren G. Harding Calvin Coolidge Herbert Hoover Franklin D. Roosevelt Harry S Truman Dwight D. Eisenhower John F. Kennedy Lyndon B. Johnson Richard M. Nixon Gerald Ford Jimmy Carter Ronald Reagan *GHW Bush *Clinton *GW Bush I'm disqualifying George HW Bush, Clinton, and George W Bush from these rankings because they're all too recent. IMHO, it takes probably 20 years minimum to rate a president's legacy. I'm also disqualifying William McKinley because he barely made it into the 1900s before being killed and succeeded by Teddy Roosevelt. Rankings from worst to first- 15. Warren G. Harding - The only thing his administration is known for are the various scandals perpetrated by his underlings such as Teapot Dome. Died in office of a heart attack. 14. Gerald Ford- He pardoned Nixon and was generally seen as incompetent. Only president never voted into office as a presidential or vice-presidental candidate. 13. Herbert Hoover- Very smart man who had the misfortune to be in office as the Great Depression hit. Was unable to do anything to stop or slow the downslide, partially due to people in Congress obstructing his efforts. A scapegoat for the Depression. 12. Jimmy Carter- Encouraged peace between Israel and Egypt, although those efforts ended up getting Egyptian leader Anwar Sadat killed. However, the economy was spiraling out of control with double-digit inflation and unemployment, and there were also foreign affairs nightmares like the 1980 Olympic boycott due to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan as well as the fall of the Shah of Iran and the subsequent Iranian hostage crisis. 11. Lyndon B. Johnson- The combination of the Vietnam War and the Great Society programs destroyed the morale of the country and nearly bankrupted it. His positives were the Civil Rights bills, which only made it through Congress due to predecessor JFK's assassination. 10. Richard Nixon- Excellent strides in foreign policy, especially by establishing relations with mainland China and thawing relations with the Russians. His lack of control of the Committee to RE-Elect the President (CREEP) members and his subsequent coverup of their break-in at the Watergate Hotel made him the first president in history to resign, which staved off the humiliation of being the first president to be successfully removed from office. 9. Cal Coolidge- Placeholder between the scandals of Warren Harding and the Great Depression under Herbert Hoover. Mainly known for being someone who was great at the art of doing nothing, which lead to the nation's prosperity. 8. William H. Taft- Heir apparent to the Republican party after Teddy Roosevelt stepped away from the presidency. However, TR was unhappy with Taft's policies and ran against him in 1912, giving the election to Woodrow Wilson. Always wanted to be on the Supreme Court instead of president, but his wife pussy-whipped him into accepting the nomination. His administration is responsible for many anti-trust suits in addition to Constitutional amendments for direct election of senators and the collection of a Federal Income Tax. His term as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court under President Harding was the highlight of his life and he blocked out his memories of being president. 7.Woodrow Wilson- Kept the nation neutral in World War I until a German diplomatic telegram (Zimmerman Telegram) was intercepted, showing that Germany would offer the Southwestern portion of the US to Mexico in exchange for declaring war. Good wartime president. Also pushed through important labor laws, such as outlawing child labor. His serious drawbacks were all in the negotiation of the Treaty of Versaiies, which ended World War I. He had his "twelve points" that he wanted the peace to abide by, but most were sacrificed to save one particular point, which was the formation of the League Of Nations. Also, because Wilson stacked the US negotiating team with Democrats, the Republican majority in the Senate was able to block ratification of the treaty, which forced the US to form a separate peace with Germany. 6. Harry S Truman- Made the decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end World War II. Authorized the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe. Made the US a charter member of the UN and a permanent member of the security committee. Came to South Korea's aid in the Korean War yet kept the war limited by not involving the Russians or Chinese. 5. John F. Kennedy- Very charismatic and was able to unify many behind him despite winning the 1960 election by a slim margin and under quiet accusations of voter fraud in Illinois and Texas. Stared down the USSR in the Cuban Missile Crisis. On the minus side, he half-assed the Bay of Pigs invasion, which lead to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Many of the reforms he wanted to put into place did not happen under him due to his death in late 1963. 4. Dwight D. Eisenhower- Eight years of relative tranquility to the nation, although Eisenhower worked much harder than people thought at the time. He seemed like a do-nothing president until his papers were released and showed how hard he worked to ensure that tranquility. Brought the Korean War to an end, although not a peace treaty. (War still technically exists between the North and South to this day.) 3. Teddy Roosevelt- Made huge advances in Government mediation of labor disputes. Enforced the long-ignored Sherman Anti-Trust Act to break up several large railroads. (Sidenote- Curiously enough, one of the first things the Sherman Act was used for was to break up labor unions, which was NOT its intent) Under his lead, the US constructed the Panama Canal, a project which had been a massive failure for the French previously. On the minus side, he had to incite Panama to revolt against Colombia in order to do this. (Panama was a territory of Colombia at that time) 2. Ronald Reagan- Turned probably the worst economy since the Great Depression into the best period of economic growth on record. Amended the Federal Income Tax laws to remove many deductions as well as exempting the poor from the tax. His Cold War policies caused the USSR to bankrupt itself and collapse in the late 80s. Also reached several important treaties with USSR Premier Gorbachev. On the negative side, members of his administration negotiated complicated arms deals with Iran and used the proceeds to fund the Contras (anti-Communist forces in Nicaragua, fighting the Sandinistas). The extent of Reagan's knowledge of these deals is not known, but he survived the scandal to leave office as the most popular president in recorded history. In addition to all of the above, former cabinet member Alexander Haig recently revealed how Reagan secured the release of the Iranian hostages... Reagan told Iran that they had until the day of his inauguration to release them or he would use force. They released them on the day of his inauguration, which was seen for many years as a slap at Jimmy Carter instead of an acknowledgement of what Reagan would do to Iran. 1. Franklin D. Roosevelt- Pushed massive changes into effect in this country including Social Security. Provided the Allies with support up until Pearl Harbor, at which point he lead the nation into war and proved successful, although he died shortly before it ended. Unprecedented four-term president. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricMM 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2004 One more reason T. Roosevelt was great The first vaguely eco-minded president. Check the sig!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted June 9, 2004 Saying Reagan was a better president than Theodore F'ing Roosevelt is one of the most mind numbing things I've read in weeks... Reagan was good but Jesus Christ people, get a grip Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2004 Saying FDR was #1 numbed my mind. Two words: court packing. Enough said. No need to even explain how the New Deal was a failure and just ran up the national debt for years to come. Morrissey's comments were insensitive and dumb but his music is far from suck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted June 9, 2004 Saying FDR was #1 numbed my mind. Two words: court packing. Enough said. No need to even explain how the New Deal was a failure and just ran up the national debt for years to come. Morrissey's comments were insensitive and dumb but his music is far from suck. Every president has a dark moment in history... Theodore Roosevelt, in my mind the greatest president of the 20th century, fucking TOOK the panama canal because he wanted it and even used a US navy warship to do the convincing... But he was still an amazing president, regardless And the New Deal being a failure can be and will be debated for years upon years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 9, 2004 I'd have moved JFK way down the list --- but no major complaints. Reagan did more historic good for America than Teddy Roosevelt, if you want to be honest. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest whatitistoburn Report post Posted June 9, 2004 I definately think the Reagan did a lot of good for america as a leader, but not necessarily as a head of government. I get depressed talking about presidents though because even for the "good" ones, they all have their darkside. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted June 9, 2004 I definately think the Reagan did a lot of good for america as a leader, but not necessarily as a head of government. I get depressed talking about presidents though because even for the "good" ones, they all have their darkside. I think you have to balance the good and the bad --- and in that case, Reagan comes way out in front. People bitched about his support of the Contras --- except that, and this seems to be forgotten, they were the PEOPLE'S CHOICE TO LEAD THE COUNTRY. They did win the election --- much to Carter's chagrin. He did a lot to effectively kill the USSR. People seem to like giving Gorbachev credit for that when Mikhail definitely did not want that to happen. He was good about AIDS. That part of his legacy I've never gotten. He was the first to treat AIDS patients with legal protection offered handicapped people. He had money in the budget for AIDS research every year startign in 1984. His not saying the word "AIDS" is a huge red herring, because his actions spoke far stronger. He showed PATCO that you can't put your money over nat'l safety. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teke184 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2004 I'd have moved JFK way down the list --- but no major complaints. Reagan did more historic good for America than Teddy Roosevelt, if you want to be honest. -=Mike I'd have moved JFK down further if I felt I could have. The problem is that most liberals think JFK stands for Jesus Fucking Khrist... John F. Kerry included. On top of that, who else could I really have moved in front of him besides Truman? I refuse to put Wilson above him if only because the year 1918 was such a clusterfuck due to his singleminded idealism. (Idealism, while well-meaning, often fails because it is impractical in the REAL world) I'd have put Nixon higher except that Watergate overshadows all the good that he did. Taft would be a hard sell, too, because he's such an overlooked president. As for the top three, it's hard to really pick one. FDR gets the nod because he put into effect major institutions that are still used today, such as Social Security, in addition to winning a war that looked unwinnable at the time. (I'm a student of World War II history and have been instructed by lecturers from Britain's Sandhurst Military Academy, as well as doing research on it at the British National Archives, so I'd say I have a decent grasp of the war.) Reagan ending the Cold War and putting the economy into overdrive put him ahead of TR. TR is a great president but was not a tested war-time president like FDR or Reagan. Frankly, this is one of those topics that NO ONE will fully agree on, but outside of the top three choices no one seems to have any objections to these rankings. I'm a little surprised that no one wanted me to put LBJ higher, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teke184 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2004 I definately think the Reagan did a lot of good for america as a leader, but not necessarily as a head of government. I get depressed talking about presidents though because even for the "good" ones, they all have their darkside. I think you have to balance the good and the bad --- and in that case, Reagan comes way out in front. People bitched about his support of the Contras --- except that, and this seems to be forgotten, they were the PEOPLE'S CHOICE TO LEAD THE COUNTRY. They did win the election --- much to Carter's chagrin. He did a lot to effectively kill the USSR. People seem to like giving Gorbachev credit for that when Mikhail definitely did not want that to happen. He was good about AIDS. That part of his legacy I've never gotten. He was the first to treat AIDS patients with legal protection offered handicapped people. He had money in the budget for AIDS research every year startign in 1984. His not saying the word "AIDS" is a huge red herring, because his actions spoke far stronger. He showed PATCO that you can't put your money over nat'l safety. -=Mike The problem is that everyone looks at AIDS with their blinders on and forget that for the first few years it was "What the fuck is that and how do you get it?" instead of what we know today. That's why it used to be called GRID (Gay Related Immuno-Deficiency). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
