So, Think This Will Get Any Media Attention?

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

I constantly hear them brought up as far as modelling US society after them.

 

 

....where the fuck do you hear that? DemocraticUnderground doesn't count.

 

And there were tons of people saving we should follow the Frence example before the Iraq war.

 

I'm pretty sure those people were talking about us setting our own example there, champ.

 

I found his claims that France is the "poster child" for Anti-semitism the most hilarious.

 

France IS very anti-Semetic, but it's hardly the Athens of left wing thought, as Mad Dog is insinuating. He's just trying to figure out a roundabout way of calling us anti-Semetic, and it's not working.

[Guest MikeSC]

You've made outlandish comments here before but that one takes the biscuit. I've yet to hear of anyone denying that the holocaust ever happened and certainly don't believe that it's a widespread thought throughout the international left. Anti-semitism is more rife amongst hardline right-wingers than the left.

INXS, hardly. The int'l left is looking to slice off Israel and serve up the Jews to the Palestinians on a platter. If you and Tyler wish to deny reality, have a blast.

I found his claims that France is the "poster child" for Anti-semitism the most hilarious.

http://www.ajc.org/InTheMedia/Publications...id=618&pid=1413

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5749

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/02/27/N...News.44170.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...29/wsemit29.xml

 

Want more?

-=Mike

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

They discriminate pretty heavily against the Muslims too.

 

Not suprisingly, you're wrong there. France has one of the largest growing Muslim communities in the world (sorry about the source, it was the first one I could grab off of Google.)

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Wow, a triple post.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

No, I in no way think being Liberal makes you anti-Semitic. I was just backing up Mike's point that some of the very left leaning parts of the world have a big problem with that. Again I errored by now calling France the extreme-left model of thought.

[Guest INXS]

That's all very well Mike but instances can be documented from any country citing that certain people are anti-semetic. Anti-semitism is widespread and France is no different from the US, England or any other European country.

 

Criticising Israel's policies isn't necessarily anti-semetic either. I have no problem with Jewish people, I know that the holocaust happened and that it was a horrendus thing, I know that many Jewish people are also sunjected to violence in the middle east as well. That doesn't mean that I can't criticise actions and policies of the Israeli government.

[Guest MikeSC]

That's all very well Mike but instances can be documented from any country citing that certain people are anti-semetic. Anti-semitism is widespread and France is no different from the US, England or any other European country.

Hence the reason I said the int'l left has a BIG problem with this.

 

And it's EXCEPTIONALLY different from the US --- which is also why I said American libs haven't been bit by that nasty bug. Yet.

Criticising Israel's policies isn't necessarily anti-semetic either. I have no problem with Jewish people, I know that the holocaust happened and that it was a horrendus thing, I know that many Jewish people are also sunjected to violence in the middle east as well. That doesn't mean that I can't criticise actions and policies of the Israeli government.

The criticism of Israel is almost tainted, heavily, by anti-Semitism, hate to break it to ya.

-=Mike

[Stephen Joseph 0]

About France, I believe the Vichy area actually shipped Jews to Germany before the Germans made it a point (law) to round them up.

 

http://www.pvhs.chico.k12.ca.us/~bsilva/pr...chy/default.htm

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

No, I in no way think being Liberal makes you anti-Semitic.

Just anti-American.

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/02/10...rves/index.html

 

Here's one to show that France does discriminate against other religions too. I swear the link works this time.

[Toshiaki Koala 0]

No, I in no way think being Liberal makes you anti-Semitic.

Just anti-American.

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

It's alright - when can you resist being wrong?

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Who are you?...

[Guest Cerebus]

They discriminate pretty heavily against the Muslims too.

 

Not suprisingly, you're wrong there. France has one of the largest growing Muslim communities in the world (sorry about the source, it was the first one I could grab off of Google.)

True, but that minority is increasingly being shoved down to the lowest rung of society, ostracized, and generally fucked over.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Left: "The Holocust didn't happen"

Sane people: "Yeah, it did. We have eyewitness accounts, photos, the whole nine yards."

Left: "Did you see it yourself?"

Sane people: "No."

Left: "Our point is proven."

        -=Mike

Whoa. Either Pat Buchanan is left-wing, or I've heard a few incorrect statements about his beliefs of the holocaust.

 

Perhaps you should just replace the improperly-used "Left" with a more appropriate "Crazies" and we'll call it a fair deal.

[Guest MikeSC]

Left: "The Holocust didn't happen"

Sane people: "Yeah, it did. We have eyewitness accounts, photos, the whole nine yards."

Left: "Did you see it yourself?"

Sane people: "No."

Left: "Our point is proven."

         -=Mike

Whoa. Either Pat Buchanan is left-wing, or I've heard a few incorrect statements about his beliefs of the holocaust.

 

Perhaps you should just replace the improperly-used "Left" with a more appropriate "Crazies" and we'll call it a fair deal.

The int'l left is quite populated by crazies.

 

The American left hasn't been yet.

-=Mike

[Guest INXS]

I found his claims that France is the "poster child" for Anti-semitism the most hilarious.

France has to be one of the most anti-religious countries I've ever seen. They discriminate pretty heavily against the Muslims too.

I'm aware of that - the French government don't even allow christian children to wear any religious symbols in school.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Sure you are and Tyler is Rush Limbaugh's no.1 fan.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The int'l left is quite populated by crazies.

 

The American left hasn't been yet.

-=Mike

Crazies is more bypartisan.

 

I think this is another example (along with censorship) of how the extreme right and extreme left wind up holding the same view, they just take different paths to getting there.

[Vyce 0]

No, I in no way think being Liberal makes you anti-Semitic.

Just anti-American.

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

It's alright - when can you resist being wrong?

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Do I need to bust out the dictionary definition of sarcasm?

 

Better yet, should I look up for someone the definition of the word "joke"? A few people here don't seem to recognize one.

[Justice 0]

Let us not forget that this is the country whose ambassador to the Middle East was once quoted as saying "We aren't going to get involved in World War III because of some pissant jews"... and allowed him to stay at his post. You know, if ANYONE in America had said that, regardless of party, they would have been GONE. PERIOD.

[Firestarter 0]

Actually, it was the French ambassador to London.

 

BBC story

[Justice 0]

Ah, darnit, figured I'd get part of it wrong. Thanks, Marney.

[Guest Hero to all Children]

I don't see how this can classify as war anymore. The WMDs haven't been used during or after the war was declared to be "officially over." The question here is "Did they even have WMDs at the time we invaded or did they not?" It's not "are they about to use these WMDs they may just have against us?"

 

So basically your German storm trooper is currently being tried in court to see whetever or not he ever was a member of the SS. And that's pretty much where innocent until proven should apply. All the evidence we've been presented is still cirumcstantial, it doesn't even look like he's got the blood-group tattoo on his right arm. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

 

 

And yeah, France is pretty fucking anti-semitic. Dreyfus is a nice example of this.

 

Still doesn't mean that being against the Israeli state means you're antisemitic. I don't think Jews are in any way inferrior, neither do I believe that they should be erradicated, etc. Hell, I have no problem whatsoever with Jews. Just with Israel.

 

Of course that's a two-sided issue. Support Israel and you're a Jew-loving, Arab-hating fuck. Don't support Israel and you're a damnable anti-Semite.

 

 

And you should see how rabid Liberals can be when it comes to anti-Semitism, they're almost as bad as the Christian-fundamentalist right in the US. There's a big college slap-fight going on in Germany about whetever or not it's legit to critisize Israel if your grandparents were part of the Nazi Germany machine.

 

 

Oh and yes, the French are secular to a point where it borders discrimination of non-Atheists, it's silly.

[Styles 0]

Still doesn't mean that being against the Israeli state means you're antisemitic. I don't think Jews are in any way inferrior, neither do I believe that they should be erradicated, etc. Hell, I have no problem whatsoever with Jews. Just with Israel.

 

Of course that's a two-sided issue. Support Israel and you're a Jew-loving, Arab-hating fuck. Don't support Israel and you're a damnable anti-Semite.

It's hard not to come off as anti-semetic if you oppose 1 small safe haven and homeland for the Jews (that they have historical rights to),for a people who have been persecuted throughout time and were left mostly murdered and displaced after the Holocaust, while Muslims have control of an entire region of the world.

[Guest MikeSC]

Still doesn't mean that being against the Israeli state means you're antisemitic. I don't think Jews are in any way inferrior, neither do I believe that they should be erradicated, etc. Hell, I have no problem whatsoever with Jews. Just with Israel.

 

Of course that's a two-sided issue. Support Israel and you're a Jew-loving, Arab-hating fuck. Don't support Israel and you're a damnable anti-Semite.

It's hard not to come off as anti-semetic if you oppose 1 small safe haven and homeland for the Jews (that they have historical rights to),for a people who have been persecuted throughout time and were left mostly murdered and displaced after the Holocaust, while Muslims have control of an entire region of the world.

Especially since NOBODY wanted the land --- until the Jews arrived. Then it was primo territory --- in spite of the total lack of, you know, oil.

-=Mike

[Guest Hero to all Children]

I think I have to totally contradict both of you.

 

A) The historical right of the Jews to call Israel their own is no greater than the historical right of the Germans to call the land east of the Oder (now largely Poland) and a few bits of Checozlovakia their own.

They lost it fair and square to the whole war thing, just like the Germans did.

 

B) I don't see the Jews being hunted with machetes in the US, Canada, Germany, Japan, etc. Admittedly there are very, very few Jews in Japan but it still gets the point accross. The whole world at large doesn't hate the Jews, it most likely doesn't even care.

 

Please also note that the Arabs only control the Arabian peninsula and that their descendents are more or less likely to be found in what used to be the Muslim empire before 1400.

So factually speaking you could say that the Muslims control a large area of the world, that would be true.

But so do the Christians (North America, almost all of South America, Europe and Australia) who have been rather pro-Jewish in the last fifty years.

 

So .. really, that shouldn't count as point seeing as the most powerful nations on this planet would be up in arms the moment someone starts another holocaust (Okay .. maybe China wouldn't be, and Russia would only be there because of alliances forged long ago.)

 

 

 

And Mike .. I am sure the people who had already settled there would disagree with you, they liked their land a lot. Having lived there for generations and everything.

The history of Israel's founding is a rather ugly one with the Brits running away from the problem, the UN approving a lop-sided plan to split up Israel and Palestine (giving the Palestinians also less fertile ground and also less ground in first place) and the Palestinians not agreeing to the plan.

Lots of fighting before 1948, the nation of Israel is founded, war, Palestinians suffer and become second class citizens, the Muslim world decides to keep them suffering and raise a generation of "freedom fighters" (it really depends on your point of view what you want to call them.)

 

It's one big ugly clustefuck.

[Guest MikeSC]

I think I have to totally contradict both of you.

 

A) The historical right of the Jews to call Israel their own is no greater than the historical right of the Germans to call the land east of the Oder (now largely Poland) and a few bits of Checozlovakia their own.

They lost it fair and square to the whole war thing, just like the Germans did.

Seeing as how they were constantly persecuted everywhere --- and the land in question --- if one wishes to hit technicalities --- was under British control --- AND Britain backed the usage of the land for the creation of Israel --- they have a stronger claim than most.

B) I don't see the Jews being hunted with machetes in the US, Canada, Germany, Japan, etc. Admittedly there are very, very few Jews in Japan but it still gets the point accross. The whole world at large doesn't hate the Jews, it most likely doesn't even care.

You seem to ignore WHY Jews aren't hunted down by machetes in most places. Because they've either been slaughtered en masse or driven out. Anti-Semitism is one of the strongest forces of evil in the world --- and it shows no sign of abating in far too many countries.

And Mike .. I am sure the people who had already settled there would disagree with you, they liked their land a lot. Having lived there for generations and everything.

Slapnuts, I'm sure, will be more than happy to refute this.

The history of Israel's founding is a rather ugly one with the Brits running away from the problem, the UN approving a lop-sided plan to split up Israel and Palestine (giving the Palestinians also less fertile ground and also less ground in first place) and the Palestinians not agreeing to the plan.

And you ignore the complicity of the OTHER Arab states in making certain that the Palestinians remain "homeless". Heck, you ignore why they lost their land in the first place against Israel.

Lots of fighting before 1948, the nation of Israel is founded, war, Palestinians suffer and become second class citizens, the Muslim world decides to keep them suffering and raise a generation of "freedom fighters" (it really depends on your point of view what you want to call them.)

 

It's one big ugly clustefuck.

I understand your point of view. I honestly do.

 

But there is no moral equivalence between the plight of Israel and the plight of the Palestinians.

-=Mike

[Styles 0]

Ok Kids, it's time for a heaping load of http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html Israel MYTH AND FACTS of the DAY! Remember, http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html is your best source for understanding Israel and the many misperceptions held against its history, people and policies.

 

A) The historical right of the Jews to call Israel their own is no greater than the historical right of the Germans to call the land east of the Oder (now largely Poland) and a few bits of Checozlovakia their own.

They lost it fair and square to the whole war thing, just like the Germans did.

 

Wrong, here's a short history lesson:

 

MYTH

 

“The Jews have no claim to the land they call Israel.”

 

FACT

 

A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years.

 

The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people; 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.

 

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the Land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea.

 

The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the 12th century, but the community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem and elsewhere during the next 300 years. By the early 19th century — years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement — more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel.1 The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.

 

Israel's international "birth certificate" was validated by the promise of the Bible; uninterrupted Jewish settlement from the time of Joshua onward; the Balfour Declaration of 1917; the League of Nations Mandate, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration; the United Nations partition resolution of 1947; Israel's admission to the UN in 1949; the recognition of Israel by most other states; and, most of all, the society created by Israel's people in decades of thriving, dynamic national existence.

 

“Nobody does Israel any service by proclaiming its 'right to exist.'

 

Israel's right to exist, like that of the United States, Saudi Arabia and 152 other states, is axiomatic and unreserved. Israel's legitimacy is not suspended in midair awaiting acknowledgement....

 

There is certainly no other state, big or small, young or old, that would consider mere recognition of its 'right to exist' a favor, or a negotiable concession.”

 

— Abba Eban2

 

 

B) I don't see the Jews being hunted with machetes in the US, Canada, Germany, Japan, etc. Admittedly there are very, very few Jews in Japan but it still gets the point accross. The whole world at large doesn't hate the Jews, it most likely doesn't even care.

 

On this point you are just so completely mistaken. Where to even begin...

 

MYTH

 

“Modern Arab nations are only anti-Israel and have never been anti-Jewish.”

 

FACT

Arab leaders have repeatedly made clear their animosity toward Jews and Judaism. For example, on November 23, 1937, Saudi Arabia's King Ibn Saud told British Colonel H.R.P. Dickson: "Our hatred for the Jews dates from God's condemnation of them for their persecution and rejection of Isa (Jesus) and their subsequent rejection of His chosen Prophet." He added "that for a Muslim to kill a Jew, or for him to be killed by a Jew ensures him an immediate entry into Heaven and into the august presence of God Almighty."3

 

When Hitler introduced the Nuremberg racial laws in 1935, he received telegrams of congratulation from all corners of the Arab world.4 Later, during the war, one of his most ardent supporters was the Mufti of Jerusalem.

 

Jews were never permitted to live in Jordan. Civil Law No. 6, which governed the Jordanian-occupied West Bank, states explicitly: "Any man will be a Jordanian subject if he is not Jewish."5

 

The Arab countries see to it that even young schoolchildren are taught to hate Jews. The Syrian Minister of Education wrote in 1968: "The hatred which we indoctrinate into the minds of our children from their birth is sacred."6

 

After the Six-Day War in 1967, the Israelis found public school textbooks that had been used to educate Arab children in the West Bank. They were replete with racist and hateful portrayals of Jews:

 

"The Jews are scattered to the ends of the earth, where they live exiled and despised, since by their nature they are vile, greedy and enemies of mankind, by their nature they were tempted to steal a land as asylum for their disgrace."7

 

"Analyze the following sentences:

 

1. The merchant himself traveled to the African continent.

 

2. We shall expel all the Jews from the Arab countries."8

 

"The Jews of our time are the descendants of the Jews who harmed the Prophet Muhammad. They betrayed him, they broke the treaty with him and joined sides with his enemies to fight him..."9

 

"The Jews in Europe were persecuted and despised because of their corruption, meanness and treachery."10

 

A 1977 Jordanian teachers' manual for first-graders used on the West Bank instructs educators to "implant in the soul of the pupil the rule of Islam that if the enemies occupy even one inch of the Islamic lands, jihad (holy war) becomes imperative for every Muslim." It also says the Jews plotted to assassinate Muhammad when he was a child. Another Jordanian text, a 1982 social studies book, claims Israel ordered the massacre of Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila during the Lebanon war, but does not mention the Christian Arabs who were the perpetrators.11

 

“We have found books with passages that are so anti-Semitic, that if they were published in Europe, their publishers would be brought up on anti-racism charges.”

 

— French lawyer and European Parliament member Francois Zimeray

commenting on Palestinian, Syrian and Egyptian texts

Jerusalem Post, (October 16, 2001).

 

 

According to a study of Syrian textbooks, "the Syrian educational system expands hatred of Israel and Zionism to anti-Semitism directed at all Jews. That anti-Semitism evokes ancient Islamic motifs to describe the unchangeable and treacherous nature of the Jews. Its inevitable conclusion is that all Jews must be annihilated."12 To cite one example, an eleventh grade textbook claims that Jews hated Muslims and were driven by envy to incite hostility against them:

 

The Jews spare no effort to deceive us, deny our Prophet, incite against us, and distort the holy scriptures.

 

The Jews cooperate with the Polytheist and the infidels against the Muslims because they know Islam reveals their crafty ways and abject characteristics.13

 

An Arabic translation of Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf has been distributed in East Jerusalem and territories controlled by the Palestinian Authority (PA) and became a bestseller.14

 

Occasionally, Arab anti-Semitism surfaces at the United Nations. In March 1991, for example, a Syrian delegate to the UN Human Rights Commission read a statement recommending that commission members read "a valuable book" called The Matzoh of Zion, written by Syrian Defense Minister Mustafa Tlas. The book justifies ritual murder charges brought against the Jews in the Damascus blood libel of 1840.15 (The phrase "blood libel" refers to accusations that Jews kill Christian children to use their blood for the ritual of making matzoh at Passover.)

King Faisal of Saudi Arabia uttered a similar slander in a 1972 interview:

 

Israel has had malicious intentions since ancient times. Its objective is the destruction of all other religions....They regard the other religions as lower than their own and other peoples as inferior to their level. And on the subject of vengeance — they have a certain day on which they mix the blood of non-Jews into their bread and eat it. It happened that two years ago, while I was in Paris on a visit, that the police discovered five murdered children. Their blood had been drained, and it turned out that some Jews had murdered them in order to take their blood and mix it with the bread that they eat on this day. This shows you what is the extent of their hatred and malice toward non-Jewish peoples.16

 

On November 11, 1999, during a Gaza appearance with First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, Suha Arafat, wife of Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat stated: "Our people have been subjected to the daily and extensive use of poisonous gas by the Israeli forces, which has led to an increase in cancer cases among women and children." Similar specious allegations have been made by other Palestinian officials.17

 

The Arab/Muslim press, which is almost exclusively controlled by the governments in each Middle Eastern nation, regularly publish anti-Semitic articles and cartoons. Today, it remains common to find anti-Semitic publications in Egypt. For example,  the establishment Al-Ahram newspaper published an article giving the "historical" background of the blood libel tradition while accusing Israel of using the blood of Palestinian children to bake matzohs up to the present time.18 Anti-Semitic articles also regularly appear in the press in Jordan and Syria. Many of the attacks deal with denial of the Holocaust, its "exploitation" by Zionism, and a comparison of Zionism and Israel to Nazism.

Egyptian Daily Al-Ahram, (May 23, 1998)

 

In November 2001, a satirical skit aired on the second most popular television station in the Arab world, which depicted a character meant to be Ariel Sharon drinking the blood of Arab children as a grotesque-looking Orthodox Jew looked on. Abu Dhabi Television also aired a skit in which Dracula appears to take a bite out of Sharon, but dies because Sharon's blood is polluted. Protests that these shows were anti-Semitic were ignored by the network.19

 

The Palestinian Authority's  media have also contained inflammatory and anti-Semitic material. A Friday sermon in the Zayed bin Sultan Aal Nahyan mosque in Gaza calling for the murder of Jews and Americans was broadcast live on the official Palestinian Authority television:

 

Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them. Wherever you are, kill those Jews and those Americans who are like them and those who stand by them they are all in one trench, against the Arabs and the Muslims because they established Israel here, in the beating heart of the Arab world, in Palestine.... 20

 

Even Palestinian crossword puzzles are used to delegitimize Israel and attack Jews, providing clues, for example, suggesting the Jewish trait is "treachery."21

 

 

 

“Syrian President Bashar Assad on Saturday [May 5] offered a vivid, if vile, demonstration of why he and his government are unworthy of respect or good relations with the United States or any other democratic country. Greeting Pope John Paul II in Damascus, Mr. Assad launched an attack on Jews that may rank as the most ignorant and crude speech delivered before the pope in his two decades of travel around the world. Comparing the suffering of the Palestinians to that of Jesus Christ, Mr. Assad said that the Jews ‘tried to kill the principles of all religions with the same mentality in which they betrayed Jesus Christ and the same way they tried to betray and kill the Prophet Muhammad.’ With that libel, the Syrian president stained both his country and the pope....”

 

— Washington Post editorial, (May 8, 2001)

 

I STRONGLY suggest you give a brief visit to the Anti-Defemation League's website, especially this section: http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/ so you can see modern examples of how alive and prevalent anti-semetism is in much of the world. I mean this in the best way, you need to visit so you can better understand what is really being accepted in the mainstream in many parts of the world.

 

So .. really, that shouldn't count as point seeing as the most powerful nations on this planet would be up in arms the moment someone starts another holocaust (Okay .. maybe China wouldn't be, and Russia would only be there because of alliances forged long ago.)

 

Give them a little more credit than that:

 

MYTH

 

“The Soviet Union vigorously opposed partition.”

 

FACT

After the British decided to bring the Palestine issue to the UN, Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin's adviser on Palestine asked a representative of the Jewish Agency why the Jews agreed to let the UN decide the fate of Palestine. "Don't you know," he said, "that the only way a Jewish state will be established is if the U.S. and Soviet Union agree? Nothing like that ever happened. It cannot possibly happen. It will never happen."

 

In May 1947, however, Soviet delegate Andrei Gromyko said:

 

The fact that no Western European State has been able to ensure the defense of the elementary rights of the Jewish people and to safeguard it against the violence of the fascist executioners explains the aspirations of the Jews to establish their own State. It would be unjust not to take this into consideration and to deny the right of the Jewish people to realize this aspiration.9

 

A few months later, the Soviet Union backed partition and, subsequently, became the second nation to recognize Israel.

 

 

 

And Mike .. I am sure the people who had already settled there would disagree with you, they liked their land a lot. Having lived there for generations and everything.

 

Uh huh...

 

MYTH

 

“Palestine was always an Arab country.”

 

FACT

The term "Palestine" is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the 12th Century B.C.E., settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain of what are now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century C.E., after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word "Filastin" is derived from this Latin name.3

 

The Hebrews entered the Land of Israel about 1300 B.C.E., living under a tribal confederation until being united under the first monarch, King Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 B.C.E. David's son, Solomon built the Temple soon thereafter and consolidated the military, administrative and religious functions of the kingdom. The nation was divided under Solomon's son, with the northern kingdom (Israel) lasting until 722 B.C.E., when the Assyrians destroyed it, and the southern kingdom (Judah) surviving until the Babylonian conquest in 586 B.C.E. The Jewish people enjoyed brief periods of sovereignty afterward before most Jews were finally driven from their homeland in 135 C.E.

 

Jewish independence in the Land of Israel lasted for more than 400 years. This is much longer than Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States.4 In fact, if not for foreign conquerors, Israel would be 3,000 years old today.

 

Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: "There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history, absolutely not."5

 

Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:

 

We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.6

 

In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."7

 

The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."8

 

Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.

 

MYTH

 

“The Palestinians are descendants of the Canaanites and were in Palestine long before the Jews.”

 

FACT

Palestinian claims to be related to the Canaanites are a recent phenomenon and contrary to historical evidence. The Canaanites disappeared from the face of the earth three millennia ago, and no one knows if any of their descendants survived or, if they did, who they would be.

 

Sherif Hussein, the guardian of the Islamic Holy Places in Arabia, said the Palestinians' ancestors had only been in the area for 1,000 years.9 Even the Palestinians themselves have acknowledged their association with the region came long after the Jews. In testimony before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, for example, they claimed a connection to Palestine of more than 1,000 years, dating back no further than the conquest of Muhammad's followers in the 7th century.10 And that claim is also dubious. Over the last 2,000 years, there have been massive invasions that killed off most of the local people (e.g., the Crusades), migrations, the plague, and other manmade or natural disasters. The entire local population was replaced many times over. During the British mandate alone, more than 100,000 Arabs emigrated from neighboring countries and are today considered Palestinians.

 

By contrast, no serious historian questions the more than 3,000-year-old Jewish connection to the Land of Israel, or the modern Jewish people's relation to the ancient Hebrews.

 

“...[the Palestinian Arabs'] basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or - for some - Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after thirty years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine..”10a

 

 

Oh, and then there's this:

MYTH

 

"Jews stole Arab land."

 

FACT

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is that from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.18

 

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."19

 

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.20

 

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: "They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay."21

 

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been "dispossessed." British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government's legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.22

 

In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al­Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.23

 

The Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land."24 Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was "due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population." The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.25

 

In his memoirs, Transjordan's King Abdullah wrote:

 

 

It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping (emphasis in the original).26

 

Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.27

 

The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. "In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."28

 

By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.30

 

 

The history of Israel's founding is a rather ugly one with the Brits running away from the problem, the UN approving a lop-sided plan to split up Israel and Palestine (giving the Palestinians also less fertile ground and also less ground in first place) and the Palestinians not agreeing to the plan.

 

In a word, bullshit.

MYTH

 

“The partition plan gave the Jews most of the land, and all of the cultivable area.”

 

FACT

The partition plan took on a checkerboard appearance largely because Jewish towns and villages were spread throughout Palestine. This did not complicate the plan as much as the fact that the high living standards in Jewish cities and towns had attracted large Arab populations, which insured that any partition would result in a Jewish state that included a substantial Arab population. Recognizing the need to allow for additional Jewish settlement, the majority proposal allotted the Jews land in the northern part of the country, Galilee, and the large, arid Negev desert in the south. The remainder was to form the Arab state.

 

 

These boundaries were based solely on demographics. The borders of the Jewish State were arranged with no consideration of security; hence, the new state's frontiers were virtually indefensible. Overall, the Jewish State was to be comprised of roughly 5,500 square miles and the population was to be 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs. The Arab State was to be 4,500 square miles with a population of 804,000 Arabs and 10,000 Jews.3a Though the Jews were allotted more total land, the majority of that land was in the desert.

 

Further complicating the situation was the UN majority's insistence that Jerusalem remain apart from both states and be administered as an international zone. This arrangement left more than 100,000 Jews in Jerusalem isolated from their country and circumscribed by the Arab state.

 

Critics claim the UN gave the Jews fertile land while the Arabs were allotted hilly, arid land. This is untrue. Approximately 60 percent of the Jewish state was to be the arid desert in the Negev.

 

The Arabs constituted a majority of the population in Palestine as a whole — 1.2 million Arabs versus 600,000 Jews. The Jews never had a chance of reaching a majority in the country given the restrictive immigration policy of the British. By contrast, the Arabs were free to come — and thousands did — to take advantage of the rapid development stimulated by Zionist settlement. Still, the Jews were a majority in the area allotted to them by the resolution and in Jerusalem.

 

In addition to roughly 600,000 Jews, 350,000 Arabs resided in the Jewish state created by partition. Approximately 92,000 Arabs lived in Tiberias, Safed, Haifa and Bet Shean, and another 40,000 were Bedouins, most of whom were living in the desert. The remainder of the Arab population was spread throughout the Jewish state and occupied most of the agricultural land.5

 

According to British statistics, more than 70% of the land in what would become Israel was not owned by Arab farmers, it belonged to the mandatory government. Those lands reverted to Israeli control after the departure of the British. Nearly 9% of the land was owned by Jews and about 3% by `Arabs who became citizens of Israel. That means only about 18% belonged to Arabs who left the country before and after the Arab invasion of Israel.6

 

 

Oh and this is kind of interesting:

 

MYTH

 

"As the Jewish population in Palestine grew, the plight of the Palestinian Arabs worsened."

 

FACT

The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II, while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000.13 In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.14

 

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible.15 The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.16

 

The Arab population increased the most in cities where large Jewish populations had created new economic opportunities. From 1922-1947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.17

 

 

Lots of fighting before 1948, the nation of Israel is founded, war, Palestinians suffer and become second class citizens, the Muslim world decides to keep them suffering and raise a generation of "freedom fighters" (it really depends on your point of view what you want to call them.)

 

And your point of view is incredibly slanted and just plain wrong.

 

MYTH

 

“The Jews started the first war with the Arabs.”

 

FACT

 

The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would "fight for every inch of their country."1 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews.2 Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee's spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench "the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood . . . ."3

 

Husseini's prediction began to come true almost immediately after the UN announced partition resolution on November 29, 1947. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. Violence continued to escalate through the end of the year.4

 

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back.5 In fact, the British turned over bases and arms to Arab irregulars and the Arab Legion.

 

In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947 until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

 

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan's King Abdullah said:

 

 

[A]ll our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine.6

 

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel's declaration of independence.

 

The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution. On February 16, 1948, the Commission reported to the Security Council:

 

Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.8

 

The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for starting the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

 

The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight.9

 

The British commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, John Bagot Glubb admitted:

 

Early in January, the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria. Some came through Jordan and even through Amman . . . They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine.10

 

Despite the disadvantages in numbers, organization and weapons, the Jews began to take the initiative in the weeks from April 1 until the declaration of independence on May 14. The Haganah captured several major towns including Tiberias and Haifa, and temporarily opened the road to Jerusalem.

The partition resolution was never suspended or rescinded. Thus, Israel, the Jewish State in Palestine, was born on May 14, as the British finally left the country. Five Arab armies (Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq) immediately invaded Israel. Their intentions were declared by Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."11

 

 

How are they second class citizens anyway?

 

MYTH

 

"Israel discriminates against its Arab citizens."

 

FACT

 

Israel is one of the most open societies in the world. Out of a population of 6.7 million, about 1.3 million — 20 percent of the population — are non-Jews (approximately 1.1 million Muslims, 130,000 Christians and 100,000 Druze).1

 

Arabs in Israel have equal voting rights; in fact, it is one of the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote. Arabs currently hold 8 seats in the 120-seat Knesset. Israeli Arabs have also held various government posts, including one who served as Israel's ambassador to Finland and the current deputy mayor of Tel Aviv. Ariel Sharon's original cabinet included the first Arab minister, Salah Tarif, a Druze who served as a minister without portfolio. An Arab is also a Supreme Court justice.

 

Arabic, like Hebrew, is an official language in Israel. More than 300,000 Arab children attend Israeli schools. At the time of Israel's founding, there was one Arab high school in the country. Today, there are hundreds of Arab schools.2

 

In 2002, the Israeli Supreme Court also ruled that the government cannot allocate land based on religion or ethnicity, and may not prevent Arab citizens from living wherever they choose.2a

 

The sole legal distinction between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel is that the latter are not required to serve in the Israeli army. This is to spare Arab citizens the need to take up arms against their brethren. Nevertheless, Bedouins have served in paratroop units and other Arabs have volunteered for military duty. Compulsory military service is applied to the Druze and Circassian communities at their own request.

 

Some economic and social gaps between Israeli Jews and Arabs result from the latter not serving in the military. Veterans qualify for many benefits not available to non-veterans. Moreover, the army aids in the socialization process.

 

On the other hand, Arabs do have an advantage in obtaining some jobs during the years Israelis are in the military. In addition, industries like construction and trucking have come to be dominated by Israeli Arabs.

 

Although Israeli Arabs have occasionally been involved in terrorist activities, they have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During the 1967, 1973 and 1982 wars, none engaged in any acts of sabotage or disloyalty. Sometimes, in fact, Arabs volunteered to take over civilian functions for reservists. During the outbreak of violence in the territories that began in September 2000, Israeli Arabs for the first time engaged in widespread protests with some violence.

 

The United States has been independent for 226 years and still has not integrated all of its diverse communities. Even today, nearly 40 years after civil rights legislation was adopted, discrimination has not been eradicated. It should not be surprising that Israel has not solved all of its social problems in only 54 years.

 

 

As opposed to...

 

MYTH

 

“Jews who lived in Islamic countries were well-treated by the Arabs.”

 

FACT

 

While Jewish communities in Islamic countries fared better overall than those in Christian lands in Europe, Jews were no strangers to persecution and humiliation among the Arabs. As Princeton University historian Bernard Lewis has written: "The Golden Age of equal rights was a myth, and belief in it was a result, more than a cause, of Jewish sympathy for Islam."22

 

Muhammad, the founder of Islam, traveled to Medina in 622 A.D. to attract followers to his new faith. When the Jews of Medina refused to recognize Muhammad as their Prophet, two of the major Jewish tribes were expelled. In 627, Muhammad's followers killed between 600 and 900 of the men, and divided the surviving Jewish women and children amongst themselves.23

 

The Muslim attitude toward Jews is reflected in various verses throughout the Koran, the holy book of the Islamic faith. "They [the Children of Israel] were consigned to humiliation and wretchedness. They brought the wrath of God upon themselves, and this because they used to deny God's signs and kill His Prophets unjustly and because they disobeyed and were transgressors" (Sura 2:61). According to the Koran, the Jews try to introduce corruption (5:64), have always been disobedient (5:78), and are enemies of Allah, the Prophet and the angels (2:97-98).

 

Jews were generally viewed with contempt by their Muslim neighbors; peaceful coexistence between the two groups involved the subordination and degradation of the Jews. In the ninth century, Baghdad's Caliph al-Mutawakkil designated a yellow badge for Jews, setting a precedent that would be followed centuries later in Nazi Germany.24

 

At various times, Jews in Muslim lands lived in relative peace and thrived culturally and economically. The position of the Jews was never secure, however, and changes in the political or social climate would often lead to persecution, violence and death.

 

When Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results. On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

 

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.25

 

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by the Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830; and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.26

 

Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854­859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).27

 

The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.28

 

As distinguished Orientalist G.E. von Grunebaum has written:

 

It would not be difficult to put together the names of a very sizeable number Jewish subjects or citizens of the Islamic area who have attained to high rank, to power, to great financial influence, to significant and recognized intellectual attainment; and the same could be done for Christians. But it would again not be difficult to compile a lengthy list of persecutions, arbitrary confiscations, attempted forced conversions, or pogroms.29

 

The danger for Jews became even greater as a showdown approached in the UN. The Syrian delegate, Faris el-Khouri, warned: "Unless the Palestine problem is settled, we shall have difficulty in protecting and safeguarding the Jews in the Arab world."30

 

More than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940's in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen.31 This helped trigger the mass exodus of Jews from Arab countries.

 

[Styles 0]

Looks like I've ran out of room! Anyway, I know I quoted a lot of text but I hope you took the time to read it and learned something. The sheer amount of anti-Israel sentiment out there without any true basis to the lies behind it is frightening. The only way to combat it is through teaching of history and education of the facts...