Who likes Randy Orton now?

[tbondrage99 0]

I Always liked Randy Orton, and for the record I also like Mordicai AND Kenzo Sasuki.....

My condolences

Thats ok, I like digging my own grave....I also hate Eugenes gimmick though when he finally turns heel and reveals he was fakign it the whole time he will be one of my favorite wrestlers....that better be how it happens...

[Vyce 0]

I still don't like Orton. Or Batista.

 

But I've come to realize at this point that, alas, they aren't going away any time soon, so I've learned to tolerate them.

 

In SMALL doses.

[Papacita 0]

As I said when it was happening the whole 'pushing him down our throats' stuff was totally worth it even though all those wins to establish him were over nonfactors like Tommy Dreamer and Val Venis. Now we just get to watch the kid get more and more confidence and work over some of his in-ring awkwardness (which Batista also has a problem with) and we'll have a real star on his hands.

But how is it worth all that trouble when once he gets onto a major stage, he's still got a significant amount of learning to do? I mean, when you really sit back and think about it, has he really accomplished anything that couldn't have been done (and done better) by more experienced wrestlers?

 

I don't wanna sound like I'm hating on him or anything, because I've been kinder to Orton than most posters here, but I never really understood the urgency in getting him over so soon because he's still very young. He's probably got a lot more years left in the business and in all likelihood, he was gonna be a star anyway, so why the rush?

[humongous2002 0]

I still feel the same way I felt before about Orton, he's not ready to be a main eventer yet but I'll give him props for finally earning the push he's been getting for the last 2 years.

[Guest Goodear]

But how is it worth all that trouble when once he gets onto a major stage, he's still got a significant amount of learning to do? I mean, when you really sit back and think about it, has he really accomplished anything that couldn't have been done (and done better) by more experienced wrestlers?

 

Because with a lack of WCW or a major competitor, WWE's new stars will always be people that they have to develop on their own. They then pull the guys up from OVW where the guys are obviously only learning the basics and start the process. We might as well get used to the idea of growing pains and look down the road at people as they come up the pike, especially since WWE has actually done a fabulous job of shucking the chafe from the wheat and deciding who to give their newbie pushes to for extended periods. As far as being down by more experienced wrestlers 'more effectively' what you lose then is the development of new stars that the company needs.

 

I don't wanna sound like I'm hating on him or anything, because I've been kinder to Orton than most posters here, but I never really understood the urgency in getting him over so soon because he's still very young. He's probably got a lot more years left in the business and in all likelihood, he was gonna be a star anyway, so why the rush?

 

Why would you want to make a star languish forever and pile on a whole lot of jobs onto them if you think you can make something out of them? Secondly, they sacrificed a whole lot of nothing to get Orton over. Has anyone been hurt by an Orton program? Nope. All they really did was have him beat up really old legends and jobbers to the stars for an extended period before he got his legs under him. Its the way you make, one again, new stars. Take that away and you have a company full of Orlando Jordans... and what fun is that?

[Exslade ZX 0]

As I said when it was happening the whole 'pushing him down our throats' stuff was totally worth it even though all those wins to establish him were over nonfactors like Tommy Dreamer and Val Venis. Now we just get to watch the kid get more and more confidence and work over some of his in-ring awkwardness (which Batista also has a problem with) and we'll have a real star on his hands.

But how is it worth all that trouble when once he gets onto a major stage, he's still got a significant amount of learning to do? I mean, when you really sit back and think about it, has he really accomplished anything that couldn't have been done (and done better) by more experienced wrestlers?

 

I don't wanna sound like I'm hating on him or anything, because I've been kinder to Orton than most posters here, but I never really understood the urgency in getting him over so soon because he's still very young. He's probably got a lot more years left in the business and in all likelihood, he was gonna be a star anyway, so why the rush?

Because you know how on many boards...people are always like "Heh...that's why WWE needs to push new talent". Well this is the talent they've chosen. People know that soon these main eventers...Taker, Trips, HBK..all of them will be gone and they always want WWE to get new stars. And that's what they're doing, it's just not the stars that people want, but really there's nothign can do about it..and eventually those stars that they are pushing will improve anyways. Perfect examples being Randy Orton and Rene Dupree.

 

And people can say he's getting a monster push...but most don't think about at least he's not getting the Lesnar push. Now I'm not gonna down Lesnar because he had size and talent...so it worked. But still, what if it didn't? At lesat they didn't do that with Orton. Or Tomko. Or Mordecai...although that one they may soon with the lack of SD stars.

 

I'm just trying to say, WWE is half way doing something right, and that's making new stars. And I suppose they want to make them now...because they know that if they try to take the long route..and wait about 2-3 years...they won't be able to rely on their big stars to be there anymore. And that would be a bad predicament when all your stars are gone, and the new ones you were thinking of pushing are only halfway over yet fighting for the World title.

[jester 0]

I'm ambivilent towards Orton. I used to be a hater in the post RNN-updates, but now I think the way he is being used is much more tolerable and effective.

 

I still don't find him particularly interesting to watch on the ring or the mike, but eh. Raw can't be packed with my favorites the whole two plus hours.

 

I do however disagree with the effectiveness of his legend-killer gimmick. He has not killed any legends worth killing. That would actually be ok, but they aren't selling it as "Heel claims accomplishments he has no right to claim."

 

You know what would have been a REAL legend killing move? Interfering with Taker's WM match, costing him the win, and then going around bragging that he killed Taker's WM record.

[Papacita 0]

Because with a lack of WCW or a major competitor, WWE's new stars will always be people that they have to develop on their own. They then pull the guys up from OVW where the guys are obviously only learning the basics and start the process. We might as well get used to the idea of growing pains and look down the road at people as they come up the pike, especially since WWE has actually done a fabulous job of shucking the chafe from the wheat and deciding who to give their newbie pushes to for extended periods. As far as being down by more experienced wrestlers 'more effectively' what you lose then is the development of new stars that the company needs.

The company needs new faces in the upper mid-card, but they need guys that know what they're doing, and I don't always get the sense that Orton knows what he's doing in there. Guys like Matt Hardy, Christian, Hurricane and even Rhyno would've been sufficient enough, and probably better choices because not only are they better workers, because in the cases of Matt and Christian, you've got two guys who were pretty over during the Attitude era, which makes them more recognizable to that casual audience WWE was trying to get at a couple of years back. The need for someone like Orton at this point in his career was never there, IMO, so if he's got kinks to work out, I see no reason why they couldn't have allowed him to work them out on Heat, Velocity or whatever instead of just forcing him up there and hoping that he steps his game up along the way.

 

Why would you want to make a star languish forever and pile on a whole lot of jobs onto them if you think you can make something out of them?

It didn't hurt Rock any. HHH survived it. It really shouldn't be a problem with Orton. You don't need to be booked like Superman from the start in order to be a star. Like HHH said, the cream always rises to the top eventually, right?

 

Also, personally, I've always found it easier to get into characters when you watch them work their way from the bottom to the top. I dunno if anyone else feels the same.

 

Secondly, they sacrificed a whole lot of nothing to get Orton over. Has anyone been hurt by an Orton program? Nope. All they really did was have him beat up really old legends and jobbers to the stars for an extended period before he got his legs under him. Its the way you make, one again, new stars.

That was never my issue with Orton. I just never understood why they had to get him over at this point in his career. And again, he really hasn't brought anything to the table that guys that were already on the roster couldn't have. What has he done that Stevie Richards or even Garrison Cade couldn't have done with the same push?

 

And I suppose they want to make them now...because they know that if they try to take the long route..and wait about 2-3 years...they won't be able to rely on their big stars to be there anymore. And that would be a bad predicament when all your stars are gone, and the new ones you were thinking of pushing are only halfway over yet fighting for the World title.

But in theory, if they start putting over the guys they've got and making stars out of them, then 2-3 years down the line, when it's time for Orton and the like to come up, they won't need to rely on those names anymore. They basically wrote off a whole group of guys without giving them the chance to amount to anything.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Orton was God during the RNN era, but was just kinda blah to me for a while. I never particularly liked him or disliked him, but I'd defend the guy if someone started hating. I've actively liked him since late January-time.

[Guest Goodear]

The company needs new faces in the upper mid-card, but they need guys that know what they're doing, and I don't always get the sense that Orton knows what he's doing in there. Guys like Matt Hardy, Christian, Hurricane and even Rhyno would've been sufficient enough, and probably better choices because not only are they better workers, because in the cases of Matt and Christian, you've got two guys who were pretty over during the Attitude era, which makes them more recognizable to that casual audience WWE was trying to get at a couple of years back.

 

Rhyno I would have had a whole lot more faith in pre-neck injury but he's been tentative and unappealing ever since. Hurricane could never be the character Orton is simply based on size alone, not even mentioning his stylistic choices in wrestling. Christian despite being with the company forever has never made a single improvement in his ring skills that I can see and has probably topped out at the IC title level so Orton had a lot more potential to work with and grow into. And Matt... well, they don't like Matt and I don't know why. Orton is not near as clueless as you seem to think and is getting smarter all the time. I'm struggling to figure out the resistance here.

 

The need for someone like Orton at this point in his career was never there, IMO, so if he's got kinks to work out, I see no reason why they couldn't have allowed him to work them out on Heat, Velocity or whatever instead of just forcing him up there and hoping that he steps his game up along the way.

 

Because they thought he could. And hey, that faith is translating into a whole lot better wrestler than most people thought. Not to mention its built him up to the point where the guy has heat now and allows him to absorb these seemingly endless tag team jobs for the last month.

 

It didn't hurt Rock any. HHH survived it. It really shouldn't be a problem with Orton. You don't need to be booked like Superman from the start in order to be a star. Like HHH said, the cream always rises to the top eventually, right?

 

Rock got the big push and then jobbed a bit, Triple H had the same streak going as well, and now that Orton is more established, he's jobbing a bit more because people have bought into the guy due to his push. Why do you think no one outside of the internet cares about Paul London? They don't know who he is and don't care because he loses all the time.

 

That was never my issue with Orton. I just never understood why they had to get him over at this point in his career. And again, he really hasn't brought anything to the table that guys that were already on the roster couldn't have. What has he done that Stevie Richards or even Garrison Cade couldn't have done with the same push?

 

They don't have to do anything. They did and its done. Maybe they thought Orton had more mainstream appeal than Stevie Richards (he does) and more personality than Cade (yuppers), so they gave him the push. What difference does it really make now that he's over his early and overblown jitters?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I have no problem with Orton now, but I think I like Batista better.

[cbacon 0]

i like his new t-shirt.

[Art Sandusky 0]

His new shirt and the Scarface-inspired Eddie shirt are the two I really want.

[Guest Seven Sins]

Orton's Fine. The only time i hated him was during the RNN days and when he first debuted.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

I used to like Orton. All he does not his scrunch his face up and stick his nose in the air. Its boring and shows no creativity. Any ass heel can do that. Look at what the Rock, Austin, or other good heels did when they were trying to establish themselves. He's boring, and character-wise, isn't really showing as much promise as the people he is trying to be raised too.

[Papacita 0]

Orton is not near as clueless as you seem to think and is getting smarter all the time. I'm struggling to figure out the resistance here.

I never said that he was clueless, and I've already acknowledged his improvement...at least I think I have, I'm too lazy to go back and look. I just don't like their method of pushing him. He's over, so it's all good I guess, but I still don't see the point of pushing him that hard when it could've easily gone to someone else.

 

Rock got the big push and then jobbed a bit, Triple H had the same streak going as well, and now that Orton is more established, he's jobbing a bit more because people have bought into the guy due to his push. Why do you think no one outside of the internet cares about Paul London? They don't know who he is and don't care because he loses all the time.

London isn't over because WWE doesn't play to his strengths. If he had the opportunity to wrestle on Smackdown every week against guys like Mysterio and Chavo, he may come out on the losing end, but since his strength is in his wrestling, eventually, people are gonna start taking notice of him. Aside from his early days as Rocky Maivia, Rock was never booked to look particularly strong. His big push came during a period where he was handled regularly by Austin and Ken Shamrock, but they played up his personality and fans started taking to him. Now I'm not saying that he could go on a 2 year losing streak and come out smelling like roses, but if he's got something to offer and it's showcased, people will start to take notice, and that's where the push should come.

[Exslade ZX 0]

but I still don't see the point of pushing him that hard when it could've easily gone to someone else.

But that's just it...no it couldn't. Sure the cocky heel roll...yea that could have gone to anyone else, you're right. But the evolution roll, that couldn't. We all know from a smark POV how HHH can be, so of course you're going to have to have someone that he likes, or gets along with. And evidently Orton is one of those people. I don't really know how many other young superstars are good friends with Trips...but I don't think it's many, so I doubt that they could have just...picked someone like Matt Hardy out of the blue to do the Evolution roll. Or some other young superstar that's been mentioned.

 

London isn't over because WWE doesn't play to his strengths. If he had the opportunity to wrestle on Smackdown every week against guys like Mysterio and Chavo, he may come out on the losing end, but since his strength is in his wrestling, eventually, people are gonna start taking notice of him. Aside from his early days as Rocky Maivia, Rock was never booked to look particularly strong. His big push came during a period where he was handled regularly by Austin and Ken Shamrock, but they played up his personality and fans started taking to him. Now I'm not saying that he could go on a 2 year losing streak and come out smelling like roses, but if he's got something to offer and it's showcased, people will start to take notice, and that's where the push should come.

And that's why Orton is over...they did begin to play to his strengths. You're saying they didn't really have to push him, they could have left him midcard...allow him to grow on Heat. If they did that...he would probaly be just like London. For instance, Orlando Jordan, they're allowing him to grow on Velocity, trying to get teh crowd behind him every now and then...it's semi working, but I doubt there is anyone that can buy Orlando as being brought up to SD then fighting for the US title, or even worse the WWE title. So they possibly went the right way with Orton.

[Guest WordLife]

I've always like Orton. I've gotten to like him more since the Royal Rumble,and as the readers of my Fantasy fed will know,he is a member of a top 3-man faction along with John Cena & AJ Styles. But to get to REAL life. He is a good wrestler and is getting better on the mic. Randy Orton is the only member of Evolution I like. Never been a fan of Ric Flair,he's entertaining at times,and USED to be able to put on good matches,just don't like him much. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels Series of matches are some of the best non-feud matches in recent memory. Randy orton will one day become a main eventer,but that won't be for another year or two. I see Orton leaving Evolution when he realizes that Ric Flair is a legend. Then Orton will feud with Flair,then Batista,then HHH sometime down the line. But for now I will enjoy his IC Title run.

[Papacita 0]

And that's why Orton is over...they did begin to play to his strengths. You're saying they didn't really have to push him, they could have left him midcard...allow him to grow on Heat. If they did that...he would probaly be just like London. For instance, Orlando Jordan, they're allowing him to grow on Velocity, trying to get teh crowd behind him every now and then...it's semi working, but I doubt there is anyone that can buy Orlando as being brought up to SD then fighting for the US title, or even worse the WWE title. So they possibly went the right way with Orton.

On Orlando, no he wouldn't (and shouldn't) be a credible challenger for the US title, but if he's shown enough improvement, I don't see why he couldn't be brought up to work a few Smackdown shows to get exposure. And that's what I think they should've done with Orton. Let him grow in Heat...maybe let him work OVW or other indy shows (yeah right) to get his skills together...the office would work with him on his promos (because you knew from day 1 they were intent on giving him a big push), and then once he starts showing a significant improvement, bring him up to Raw and work from there. It wouldn't hurt him, and they'd probably have gotten even more out of him than they have with his current push, because he'd have been better prepared.

 

And on his push, I really don't think they played to his strengths all that well either, because even with the improvement he's made, his weaknesses on the mic and in the ring still shine through to a degree. If anything, I think they made it a little harder on him by driving home how special he was and how much of a blue chipper he was before he really got a chance to do anything. That's probably why part of the reason it took so long for people to really take to his character.