Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted June 16, 2004 he just isn't any good and JUST mastered a power bomb after almost killing RVD about 5 times. Well, someone had to be the crash test dummy. It was either him or Jericho, the other one who never gets injured. Jericho just happened to be a heel at the time. Yah, god forbid he learn how to do a basic move down in the minors.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 He is better now for two reasons. 1) He is more experienced. His moveset isn't the greatest, but he is getting better at knowing how to work a match. 2) His push has been toned down. He is still getting pushed, but he is no longer invincible and being prepped for a HHH match in the near future. IC Title level is where he belongs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Orton is BY FAR the best heel in the company. No one is close. I disagree. The only thing distinguishing Orton from every other cocky heel from the company is the whole Legend Killer gimmick. After this week's Raw, HHH is a better heel than Randy Orton. Nothing is more despicable than playing mind games with Eugene. Now that's something that people can truly hate. Orton is similar to how Rock was. Sure, he's cocky, but he'll probably get face pops sooner or later, like he was at Bad Blood. He's a good heel, but not the best heel. That's a reason why I never thought Jericho was the best heel in the company; there was always the possibility of him getting cheered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Orton & Batista should have La Resistence's spot as the most annoying tag team. Neither really are ready for the solo mega championship push. Kane is the #1 heel on Raw at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 he just isn't any good and JUST mastered a power bomb after almost killing RVD about 5 times. Well, someone had to be the crash test dummy. It was either him or Jericho, the other one who never gets injured. Jericho just happened to be a heel at the time. Yah, god forbid he learn how to do a basic move down in the minors.... Hey now! Those are our future stars! Can't have them being hurt. Orton & Batista should have La Resistence's spot as the most annoying tag team. Neither really are ready for the solo mega championship push. By solo mega championship push, do you mean just the World Title, or both IC and World? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted June 16, 2004 I liked him back when it was just me Goodear and Besus who liked him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Being the most over heel isn't that tough right now. Who else is there? The big name heels on the rosters: -HHH - I'd say he's more over than Orton -Kane - keeps getting face pops -Bradshaw - no one buys him as a ME heel -Booker - buried by Taker -Big Show - hurt -Angle - hurt Both rosters are extremely short on top level heels, so Orton being the most over (or 2nd) isn't much of an accomplishment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Exslade ZX 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Orton & Batista should have La Resistence's spot as the most annoying tag team. Neither really are ready for the solo mega championship push. Kane is the #1 heel on Raw at the moment. Ok...but look at how it would pan out if they were in the midcard. Main event- Benoit, HHH, HBK, Kane Upper- Jericho, Christian, Edge Ok that's about how it would look...now we all know Jericho/Christian they're talented, and can have some great matches, but we can only take so much of them. As has been proven by when people started getting tired of Trish/Jericho...which was basically Christian/Jericho. If you ask me, that would be a pretty lackluster uppermidcard, even just the small addition of Orton makes it that much better. And you might say Benjamin could be up there...but seriously, after he beat Triple H...then where would he have went? Of course he then even beat Flair clean..so he would have moved to what Christian? Who would have probaly still been involved with Jericho? Edge is face. I doubt they would push him to the main. So in a way the fact that Orton is upper mid...is actually keeping Shelton at uppermid so to speak. So IMO without Orton...the upper midcard area wouldn't be as good... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Orton is BY FAR the best heel in the company. No one is close. I disagree. The only thing distinguishing Orton from every other cocky heel from the company is the whole Legend Killer gimmick. After this week's Raw, HHH is a better heel than Randy Orton. Nothing is more despicable than playing mind games with Eugene. Now that's something that people can truly hate. Orton is similar to how Rock was. Sure, he's cocky, but he'll probably get face pops sooner or later, like he was at Bad Blood. He's a good heel, but not the best heel. That's a reason why I never thought Jericho was the best heel in the company; there was always the possibility of him getting cheered. A: HHH got cheerred at Bad Blood too, so there goes that. B: HHH and Kane are on TV the most and have the most thought put inte their charicter. But their execution does not match Orton's. Plus HHH silent promo's screw him no matter what. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Orton & Batista should have La Resistence's spot as the most annoying tag team. Neither really are ready for the solo mega championship push. By solo mega championship push, do you mean just the World Title, or both IC and World? Both actually. I would rather see Jericho or Hardy or Kane as IC champ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 HHH is the best heel in the company. After that it is a big drop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted June 16, 2004 HHH is the best heel in the company. After that it is a big drop. Explain this? He has no charicter development, shit promo's, only tries half the time. So on and so on. Explain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Report post Posted June 16, 2004 I wouldn't call Kane the #1 heel because he's just over enough with the crowd that he gets face pops. Plus the fact him destroying someone like HBK pleases the group of Smarks here. HHH occasionally has a cheer leading squad in the crowd, but more often than not when doing a beatdown he gets heel heat for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 A: HHH got cheerred at Bad Blood too, so there goes that. After this week's Raw, HHH is a better heel than Randy Orton. I'm not talking about Bad Blood. After this week's Raw, HHH won't be getting cheered for a long while. B: HHH and Kane are on TV the most and have the most thought put inte their charicter. But their execution does not match Orton's. Plus HHH silent promo's screw him no matter what. Orton took a year to get completely comfortable with his character. His execution isn't that great. He's just another cocky heel. Just like Christian. And heel Jericho. And heel Matt Hardy. Right now, he's just looking that much better because Jericho, the ultimate cocky heel that's in the fed now, is a face and Christian's injured (Matt's a non factor either way, as he's not on TV to the extent Orton, Jericho and Christian are). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 HHH is the best heel in the company. After that it is a big drop. Explain this? He has no charicter development, shit promo's, only tries half the time. So on and so on. Explain He is the most over and the most credible. He can also outwrestle pretty much every other heel on the roster when he is focused. On a side note, Jericho needs to be a heel. He's dead in the water as a face. He's an obnoxious jerk. It is hard to sympathize with someone like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted June 16, 2004 A: HHH got cheerred at Bad Blood too, so there goes that. After this week's Raw, HHH is a better heel than Randy Orton. I'm not talking about Bad Blood. After this week's Raw, HHH won't be getting cheered for a long while. B: HHH and Kane are on TV the most and have the most thought put inte their charicter. But their execution does not match Orton's. Plus HHH silent promo's screw him no matter what. Orton took a year to get completely comfortable with his character. His execution isn't that great. He's just another cocky heel. Just like Christian. And heel Jericho. And heel Matt Hardy. Right now, he's just looking that much better because Jericho, the ultimate cocky heel that's in the fed now, is a face and Christian's injured (Matt's a non factor either way, as he's not on TV to the extent Orton, Jericho and Christian are). A: Kane had a run-in with Eugene...so what. It will be forgotten, as will HHH's. Fans have short term memories. They remember traits way more than actions B: His execution of a cocky heel is way better than anything Christian could dream of. And Jericho and Hardy were diffrent type of charicters than Orton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted June 16, 2004 HHH is the best heel in the company. After that it is a big drop. Explain this? He has no charicter development, shit promo's, only tries half the time. So on and so on. Explain He is the most over and the most credible. He can also outwrestle pretty much every other heel on the roster when he is focused. On a side note, Jericho needs to be a heel. He's dead in the water as a face. He's an obnoxious jerk. It is hard to sympathize with someone like that. Orton is more over, Kane is more credable and Chavo is a better wrsetler than him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Open the Muggy Gate 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 I have been digging Orton for a long time now. I was wavering after the legendary "RKWhoOps", but I'm a big fan of him now. And DAVE has been great as of late. He seems to do great in tag team matches, where they can hide his weaknesses. And what can you say about Flair? 56 years old, and he wrestled 30 minutes last night. I'm just impressed with Evolution as of late. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 B: His execution of a cocky heel is way better than anything Christian could dream of. And Jericho and Hardy were diffrent type of charicters than Orton. Better than Christian? I don't know about that. Christian makes a good jerk. Sure, he's gotten a lot of help from Jericho, having a bodyguard, and Trish, but Orton's gotten plently of help himself. And how is Jericho different than Orton? Both are obnoxious jerks who think they are above everyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Exslade ZX 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Ehhh...I'm an 'Orton mark' also..but Rrrsh..you're definitely going about it the wrong way. Just sounds like an extra case of markism..rather then you know, backing up what you say with a real point. I'm a huge Orton fan, but to try to put it off as Christian, well not being that good in the cocky role compared to Orton is going to far. I especially loved him in the whole "This isn't a damned episode of the O.C." period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted June 16, 2004 B: His execution of a cocky heel is way better than anything Christian could dream of. And Jericho and Hardy were diffrent type of charicters than Orton. Better than Christian? I don't know about that. Christian makes a good jerk. Sure, he's gotten a lot of help from Jericho, having a bodyguard, and Trish, but Orton's gotten plently of help himself. And how is Jericho different than Orton? Both are obnoxious jerks who think they are above everyone. Christian is like Jericho of 98-99, fun and annoying but it wont go anywhere. Their charicters are diffrent, but Christians personality has no depth. Jericho is alot more annoying and more of a jerk. He has a swagger. Orton is more of a "I know Im better than you" He is more above us. Jericho needs his ego to be stroekd. Theres a major diffrence. They carry themselves differet, they talk different, they react different... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Actually, Rrrsh, with that arguement, I think it may be reversed a bit, if for Jericho, we are just refering to WWE character only. Randy's in Evolution. They all stroke each other's egos (character wise). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 HHH is the best heel in the company. After that it is a big drop. Explain this? He has no charicter development, shit promo's, only tries half the time. So on and so on. Explain He is the most over and the most credible. He can also outwrestle pretty much every other heel on the roster when he is focused. On a side note, Jericho needs to be a heel. He's dead in the water as a face. He's an obnoxious jerk. It is hard to sympathize with someone like that. Orton is more over, Kane is more credable and Chavo is a better wrsetler than him. Orton is nowhere near as over as Trip, Kane isn't credible at all (that's why the Benoit feud flopped) and Chavo was the weak link of the Smackdown 6, although that argument is the closest. The first two you are just way off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted June 16, 2004 He dosnt carry himslef that way, tho. Its all about his charicteristic traits and tendousies. Their totally diffrent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scroby 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Better than Christian? I don't know about that. Christian makes a good jerk. Sure, he's gotten a lot of help from Jericho, having a bodyguard, and Trish, but Orton's gotten plently of help himself I just wanna add that it took Mick Foley 6 months to finally get Orton over, 6 whole freaking months! Honestly for wrestling thats really bad, if your going to be a good heel or even a decent heel you should be hated within weeks of being one. If it takes 6 months or more, then thats pretty bad. Were you look at Jericho, it took him a few weeks same with Christian. I'd turn the channel on Orton before I'd turn the channel on Christian anytime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbondrage99 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 I Always liked Randy Orton, and for the record I also like Mordicai AND Kenzo Sasuki..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted June 16, 2004 I liked him back when it was just me Goodear and Besus who liked him. *Chest thump* Represent'n. As I said when it was happening the whole 'pushing him down our throats' stuff was totally worth it even though all those wins to establish him were over nonfactors like Tommy Dreamer and Val Venis. Now we just get to watch the kid get more and more confidence and work over some of his in-ring awkwardness (which Batista also has a problem with) and we'll have a real star on his hands. Its funny though that Orton is getting face pops now though since the guy litterally does everything he can to get booed and people still cheer for him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 I Always liked Randy Orton, and for the record I also like Mordicai AND Kenzo Sasuki..... My condolences Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redbaron29 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 I'm down with the legend killer. Granted, I wasn't able to watch wrestling when he was 95% Randy Orton ( although I've heard about it serveral times) but ever since I've seen him wrestle I have been quite impressed. The "Legend Killer" gimmick was probably the best thing the WWE creative has done in the past year. I would even go out on a limb for him and say out of all the current OVW Alumni, I would consider him most improved for mat skills (although some would argue the RKOoops fucked him out of that title) I'm not saying Randy is by far done working his way up the latter. What I can see is him one day obtaining a spot in the ranks of the all time greats of this sport. Orton may not be the number 1 heel but one day in another year or two you sure as fuck should be. As far as Dave Batista goes I think my brother put it best. When he's in the ring I see a monster. When he is comming to the ring I see a monster (although I can also see where the metrosexual reference comes from) But when Big Dave opens his mouth......the whole Monster image is gone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted June 16, 2004 To be honest, I hated him at first but he has gotten a lot more tolerable but he still is green in the ring. I think he has shown improvement, but I wouldn't exactly say that I like him......but he's still too green for me to say that I do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
