Supreme Court decision gives cops broader powers,

[Guest CronoT]

In a 5-4 decision today from the Supreme Court, the Court upheld the law on the books of approximately 20 states, which says that a police officer who is in the process of investigating a crime, or who believes that a crime is in progress, can demand identification from anyone that could "possibly be involved or has knowledge about said crime." <-(My wording)

 

If a person refuses to provide identification, the officer has the right to arrest the person. This all stems from a Nevada case that made it all the way to the Supreme Court. A man in Nevada had his truck parked on the side of the road, and was talking to his 19-year old daughter through the passenger side window. The daughter was sitting inside truck.

 

A police officer came by, and said he was investigating a report of a fight, or in cop speak, public disturbance. When the police officer stopped and asked the man to provide identification, he refused, saying he had done nothing wrong. The Nevada state police dept.'s representative then claims that the officer believed the man was drunk.

 

The police officer asked for the man's identification 11 times, to which the man finally said something to the effect of "I haven't done anything, so I'm not showing you my identification, so either arrest me, or leave me alone." Remember, I said I was paraphrasing. The police officer then arrested the daughter, who had to be physically dragged out of the truck.

 

All this was caught on the video camera that almost all cop cars now carry as a means of protecting both themseleves, and civilians, for all the good it did here. What the Supreme Court basically did today was take a giant shit on the Bill of Rights, more specifically, the 4th Amendment, and a part of the 5th Amendment.

 

Amendment IV - Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

Amendment V - Due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, private property.

 

I think we all know where this is going to lead. How many more innocent black and latino men and women are going to imprisoned because of this trampling of civil rights? What's next? Police and other authorities searching each and every residence in a random pattern while looking for a suspect, and then arresting people for things that require a warrant? I swear, this is turning into a fucking police state.

[Highland 0]

I love the new legal term "person of interest"

 

Oh well, I'm sure there are those that will claim national security (the catchword of all tyrants) trumps the Bill of Rights

[Guest Anglesault]

I think we all know where this is going to lead. How many more innocent black and latino men and women are going to imprisoned because of this trampling of civil rights?

Well, they could just show the indentification...

[Guest CronoT]

I think we all know where this is going to lead. How many more innocent black and latino men and women are going to imprisoned because of this trampling of civil rights?

Well, they could just show the indentification...

AS, you're missing the point of my statement. This will be used like how the seatbelt law is used illegally now; as a thinly veiled excuse to harass minorities. half the cops in my town are on the take, and the other half are lazy fuck-offs. Maybe a tenth of the cops in my town actually do their jobs, and don't fuck around.

[Perfxion 0]

How do you lose Civil Rights if a person of law(city, state, federal) ask for some ID?

 

Well, you have the right to say no to a search if asked by them to do one. You don't have the right to say no to show some picture ID, unless you do not have any on you.

[Guest Anglesault]

I think we all know where this is going to lead. How many more innocent black and latino men and women are going to imprisoned because of this trampling of civil rights?

Well, they could just show the indentification...

AS, you're missing the point of my statement. This will be used like how the seatbelt law is used illegally now; as a thinkly veiled excuse to harass minorities.

You asked how many minorites are going to be imprisoned. If they are innocent and show the ID, zero.

 

And my town has hard working cops.

[NoCalMike 0]

This is another one of those instances where the ruling will result in probably 1-2 good situations and about 100 abuses. You can see both sides of the issue, but in reality this will just turn into more power for the cops to harass people.

[Guest Anglesault]

Maybe it would help me understand if someone gave a good, valid reason for an innocent person to refuse to provide ID

[NoCalMike 0]

Maybe it would help me understand if someone gave a good, valid reason for an innocent person to refuse to provide ID

No one said anyone should refuse. Of course they should just comply and show their ID, but the point is that this gives the cops more power to harass people, of their choice, just to stop them.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I think we all know where this is going to lead. How many more innocent black and latino men and women are going to imprisoned because of this trampling of civil rights?

Well, they could just show the indentification...

AS, you're missing the point of my statement. This will be used like how the seatbelt law is used illegally now; as a thinly veiled excuse to harass minorities. half the cops in my town are on the take, and the other half are lazy fuck-offs. Maybe a tenth of the cops in my town actually do their jobs, and don't fuck around.

you've got to be fucking shitting me.

 

All it means is they can ask for ID. If you're going to be a fucking dick and not cooperate with the Police than they should knock some sense into you with a club.

 

THey're trying to protect us not rob you of your rights.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Maybe it would help me understand if someone gave a good, valid reason for an innocent person to refuse to provide ID

No one said anyone should refuse. Of course they should just comply and show their ID, but the point is that this gives the cops more power to harass people, of their choice, just to stop them.

The officer would have to justify asking for the ID if it became an issue.

[Guest Anglesault]

Maybe it would help me understand if someone gave a good, valid reason for an innocent person to refuse to provide ID

No one said anyone should refuse. Of course they should just comply and show their ID, but the point is that this gives the cops more power to harass people, of their choice, just to stop them.

The officer would have to justify asking for the ID if it became an issue.

I mean really. If the man is investigating a crime, he's not going to leave the area, walk four blocks and pick on some random black guy.

 

He's going to have to explain the situation to someone in some type of report.

[NoCalMike 0]

Maybe it would help me understand if someone gave a good, valid reason for an innocent person to refuse to provide ID

No one said anyone should refuse. Of course they should just comply and show their ID, but the point is that this gives the cops more power to harass people, of their choice, just to stop them.

The officer would have to justify asking for the ID if it became an issue.

I mean really. If the man is investigating a crime, he's not going to leave the area, walk four blocks and pick on some random black guy.

 

He's going to have to explain the situation to someone in some type of report.

So police harassment doesn't exist then huh? Look I know in your world, and admittingly so, MY world, it isn't really an issue, but there is no way you can tell me that this isn't going to present another free pass for cops to harass minorities in certain parts of the country. The issue, isn't about a cop investigating crime, and no one is arguing that, so stop acting like that is what I said. I am talking about cops with nothing better to do, more likely to stop minorities, "just because" and this new ruling helping their cause to do it. It already goes on, plenty, and this ruling is just another way of aiding that practice.

[Guest MikeSC]

So police harassment doesn't exist then huh? Look I know in your world, and admittingly so, MY world, it isn't really an issue, but there is no way you can tell me that this isn't going to present another free pass for cops to harass minorities in certain parts of the country. The issue, isn't about a cop investigating crime, and no one is arguing that, so stop acting like that is what I said. I am talking about cops with nothing better to do, more likely to stop minorities, "just because" and this new ruling helping their cause to do it. It already goes on, plenty, and this ruling is just another way of aiding that practice.

Mike, you behave as if the cops have NOTHING better to do.

 

"Come on, he's getting away!"

"Ah, forget it. Let's go bug this black guy over here"

 

Cops ACTUALLY work and have ACTUAL concerns. They have MOUNDS of paperwork dealing with almost everything they do. They aren't going to give themselves MORE WORK for the hell of it.

 

Listening to you talk, it sounds like the KKK decided to simply become the police IN EVERY CITY IN AMERICA.

-=Mike

[Justice 0]

*Black guy is walking down the street*

 

*Two cops walk up*

 

"Hey, can we see your ID?"

 

"Uh, sure." *Shows ID*

 

"Okay then. Carry on."

 

*Walks further down the street*

 

*Two more cops walk up*

 

"Can we see your ID, sir?"

 

"Okay..." *Flashes ID*

 

"Okay, move along."

 

*Walks a little further down the street*

 

*Two more cops walk up*

 

"Sir, we need to see your ID."

 

"Fine..." *Flashes ID*

 

"Very well. You're free to go..."

 

*Repeat, ad infinitum*

 

Is this the scenario you are guys are seeing with this law? I mean, seriously, I think you are overreacting a bit.

[Highland 0]

Is this the scenario you are guys are seeing with this law? I mean, seriously, I think you are overreacting a bit.

 

Yes.

 

Maybe, but the potential for abuse is there. It's bad enough they're trying to pass a similar, national law here.

[NoCalMike 0]

So police harassment doesn't exist then huh?  Look I know in your world, and admittingly so, MY world, it isn't really an issue, but there is no way you can tell me that this isn't going to present another free pass for cops to harass minorities in certain parts of the country.  The issue, isn't about a cop investigating crime, and no one is arguing that, so stop acting like that is what I said.  I am talking about cops with nothing better to do, more likely to stop minorities, "just because" and this new ruling helping their cause to do it. It already goes on, plenty, and this ruling is just another way of aiding that practice.

Mike, you behave as if the cops have NOTHING better to do.

 

"Come on, he's getting away!"

"Ah, forget it. Let's go bug this black guy over here"

 

Cops ACTUALLY work and have ACTUAL concerns. They have MOUNDS of paperwork dealing with almost everything they do. They aren't going to give themselves MORE WORK for the hell of it.

 

Listening to you talk, it sounds like the KKK decided to simply become the police IN EVERY CITY IN AMERICA.

-=Mike

Yes, that is what I act like..

 

So I guess you act like police harassment doesn't exist and it is totally made up. Sure it is another liberal conspiracy.

 

I didn't say every cop, I didn't say every city. Stop making things up. All I said is that THERE IS places in this country where these things are taking place, but of course I'd leave it up to you to turn "some" into "EVERY"

 

The harassment already goes on, and the cops that DO, DO IT, don't need another permission slip.

[Guest Vitamin X]

That's kind of how it was in the town I used to live in, except that rule applied to ANYONE walking down the street

[NoCalMike 0]

I think the most ignorant thing about this is some of you assuming these hypoethical scenarios end with, "thanks for showing your ID, now you be on your way fine sir" Yeah F'n right.

[Guest Anglesault]

I think the most ignorant thing about this is some of you assuming these hypoethical scenarios end with, "thanks for showing your ID, now you be on your way fine sir" Yeah F'n right.

If they decided to pick on some minority and arrest them, I think they could do it without this law.

[NoCalMike 0]

I think the most ignorant thing about this is some of you assuming these hypoethical scenarios end with, "thanks for showing your ID, now you be on your way fine sir"  Yeah F'n right.

If they decided to pick on some minority and arrest them, I think they could do it without this law.

yes I know, but like I said, this law kind of invites more of the behaivor.

[Guest Anglesault]

I think the most ignorant thing about this is some of you assuming these hypoethical scenarios end with, "thanks for showing your ID, now you be on your way fine sir"  Yeah F'n right.

If they decided to pick on some minority and arrest them, I think they could do it without this law.

yes I know, but like I said, this law kind of invites more of the behaivor.

I see it differently. Whereas before they were just harassing people and dragging them in on a whim, now they'd actually be some reason to bring them in (ie. Why the hell do they refuse to show ID?)

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Eh.

I side with the libbies here. It's too much civil rights going away for me to be thrilled with it.

I know if I hadn't done anything I'd be pissed if I was being bothered.

[Vyce 0]

half the cops in my town are on the take, and the other half are lazy fuck-offs. Maybe a tenth of the cops in my town actually do their jobs, and don't fuck around.

I'd love to know where you live, because if I did an in-depth analysis of your city's police department, I'm pretty confident that I'd found this little assertion of yours to be untrue.

 

So I guess you act like police harassment doesn't exist and it is totally made up. Sure it is another liberal conspiracy.

 

Christ, you're REALLY overeacting here.

 

No one's saying that police harassment doesn't exist.

 

You, on the other hand, are using a HYPOTHETICAL - that this new ruling will lead to SOME abuse by the police - and somehow twisting it into an assumption that hundreds if not thousands of harassment cases will be beginning on the streets TOMORROW.

 

You're overeacting. Police harassment exists, but not on the scale that people like you seem to be thinking it does.

[Guest Brian]

Goddamn, am I the only minority on this board?

 

It's not the big things like random arrests and beatings that occur, because the cops no what they have rights to do. It's the intimidation. You walk around at night in the CD in Seattle and you're going to get stopped by cops. And it's things as small as pat downs and for kids, just getting picked up for no reason and brought home. And they do this to intimidate, so they have the upper hand. It's not always beatings and such, though they do occur, its the small things to harass and intimidate. And if they have that right, they'll use it. If they could kick down your door and beat the shit out of you, alot of them would do that.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

and for kids, just getting picked up for no reason and brought home.

 

It's called curfew.

[Guest CronoT]

and for kids, just getting picked up for no reason and brought home.

 

It's called curfew.

I think he means before curfew.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Maybe they'll catch some of the illegal immigrants without ID's and send them back to wherever they came from. Thats the only good that could come from this.

 

/JBL mode off

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

and for kids, just getting picked up for no reason and brought home.

 

It's called curfew.

I think he means before curfew.

Oh well, maybe if kids stopped causing trouble they wouldn't have this problem. My friends and I got stopped all the time for being out late when we were younger. Don't blame the cops, blame all the fuckup teenagers that committ crimes.

[Guest Brian]

There are no curfew laws in Washington, or at least most of the state. Most counties repealed them in 1997/8 when the WA State Supreme Court repealed Bellingham's curfew laws.