The "Wrong" blacks at Harvard

[Guest Cerebus]

I know race is a touchy issue, but we've had (relatively) sane discussions about it in the past. This article points out that 8 percent of Harvard undergraduates are black that 2/3 are either African, West Indian immigrants or racially mixed. Apparently the stigma of "being black" is becoming more and more focused (now you have to be the descendent of a slave family to be eligable according to some). I think it points out the absurdity of affirmative action but, then again, I'm not black (though I am racially and ethnically mixed). Thoughts?

 

Top Colleges Take More Blacks, but Which Ones?

By SARA RIMER and KAREN W. ARENSON

 

Published: June 24, 2004

 

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — At the most recent reunion of Harvard University's black alumni, there was lots of pleased talk about the increase in the number of black students at Harvard.

 

But the celebratory mood was broken in one forum, when some speakers brought up the thorny issue of exactly who those black students were.

 

While about 8 percent, or about 530, of Harvard's undergraduates were black, Lani Guinier, a Harvard law professor, and Henry Louis Gates Jr., the chairman of Harvard's African and African-American studies department, pointed out that the majority of them — perhaps as many as two-thirds — were West Indian and African immigrants or their children, or to a lesser extent, children of biracial couples.

 

They said that only about a third of the students were from families in which all four grandparents were born in this country, descendants of slaves. Many argue that it was students like these, disadvantaged by the legacy of Jim Crow laws, segregation and decades of racism, poverty and inferior schools, who were intended as principal beneficiaries of affirmative action in university admissions.

 

What concerned the two professors, they said, was that in the high-stakes world of admissions to the most selective colleges — and with it, entry into the country's inner circles of power, wealth and influence — African-American students whose families have been in America for generations were being left behind.

 

"I just want people to be honest enough to talk about it," Professor Gates, the Yale-educated son of a West Virginia paper-mill worker, said recently, reiterating the questions he has been raising since the black alumni weekend last fall. "What are the implications of this?"

 

Both Professor Gates and Professor Guinier emphasize that this is not about excluding immigrants, whom sociologists describe as a highly motivated, self-selected group. Blacks, who make up 13 percent of the United States population, are still underrepresented at Harvard and other selective colleges, they said.

 

The conversation that bubbled up that weekend has continued across campus here and beyond as these professors and others publicly raise painful and complicated questions about race and class and how they play out in elite university admissions, issues that some educators and black admissions officers have privately talked about for some time.

 

There is no consensus on the answers, and since most institutions say they do not look into the origins of their black students, the absence of hard data makes the discussion even more difficult.

 

Some educators, including the president of Harvard, Lawrence H. Summers, declined to comment on the issue; others are divided.

 

The president of Amherst College, Anthony W. Marx, says that colleges should care about the ethnicity of black students because in overlooking those with predominantly American roots, colleges are missing an "opportunity to correct a past injustice" and depriving their campuses "of voices that are particular to being African-American, with all the historical disadvantages that that entails."

 

But others say there is no reason to take the ancestry of black students into account.

 

"I don't think it should matter for purposes of admissions in higher education," said Lee C. Bollinger, the president of Columbia University, who as president of the University of Michigan fiercely defended its use of affirmative action. "The issue is not origin, but social practices. It matters in American society whether you grow up black or white. It's that differential effect that really is the basis for affirmative action."

 

Professors Gates and Guinier cite various sources for their figures about Harvard's black students, including conversations with administrators and students, a recent Harvard undergraduate honors thesis based on extensive student interviews, and the "Black Guide to Life at Harvard," which surveyed 70 percent of the black undergraduates and was published last year by the Harvard Black Students Association.

 

Researchers at Princeton University and the University of Pennsylvania who have been studying the achievement of minority students at 28 selective colleges and universities (including theirs, as well as Yale, Columbia, Duke and the University of California at Berkeley), found that 41 percent of the black students identified themselves as immigrants, as children of immigrants or as mixed race.

 

....

 

"You need a philosophical discussion about what are the aims of affirmative action,'' Professor Waters said. "If it's about getting black faces at Harvard, then you're doing fine. If it's about making up for 200 to 500 years of slavery in this country and its aftermath, then you're not doing well. And if it's about having diversity that includes African-Americans from the South or from inner-city high schools, then you're not doing well, either."

...

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I find it hilarious that college AA seems to only apply to African Americans anymore. It's great that diversity on a college campus just seems to mean having black people around.

 

Oh well whatever. I'm not going to take any kind of minority program at a college seriously until they start even pretending to give a damn about Native Americans or any of the other minorities that aren't really considered minorities.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Jesus fucking Christ.

 

I thought this was going to be one of those "Black Conservative" debates, but I was wrong.

 

So now we've got the wrong kind of blacks going to Harvard?

 

*bangs head on keyboard*

 

fkadieoqueubvnjklotioifjhdsafjdsaliurteioufdiobvnlkrnlkrfoiu...

[2GOLD 0]

Wow, so now we are dividing the races into even more sub-sections.

 

I am so confused now.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Harvard Interviewer: Okay, I've got to test you here to determine if you're qualified. I'm just going to ask you some questions, okay?

 

Black Student: Okay.

 

Harvard Interviewer *reading monotone out of a book*: Yo. Sup, G?

 

Black Student: Excuse me?

 

Harvard Interviewer: Let me... What is this, oh... Let me "axe" you something. You go to the corner of fifth and lincoln and pick up the.. Fat? No, I see... The phat grass?

 

Black Student: Uh... I have no experience with drugs, sorry.

 

Harvard Interviewer: Yo. Yo.... *adjusts glasses* Yo yo yo. What good this joint gone be.. I think that's correct... If you don't bang some hoes. Yo.

 

Black Student: I'm sorry?

 

Harvard Interviewer: Who's the real MJ? Michael or Magic?

 

Black Student: Michael Jackson?

 

Harvard Interviewer: *sips a Starbucks frappucino* Naw, dog. I jest going old school. That was trick.

 

Black Student: Well, okay.

 

Harvard Interviewer: Now that that's out of the way, how many "-izzles per minute" can you make?

 

Black Student: I don't know what you're talking about here.

 

Harvard Interviewer: Sorry. You've been rejected because you're not black enough.

 

Black Student: What do you mean by that?

 

Harvard Interviewer: Well, you're Denzel Washington but we're looking for Snoop Dogg.

 

Black Student: Oh, I'm sorry.

[2GOLD 0]

So basically, they want to make the movie "How High" a reality?

[Art Sandusky 0]

I have no complaints whatsoever with that.

 

Although the implication that admitting American blacks is tantamount to admitting thugs into the university is rather nauseating.

[2GOLD 0]

The thing is...it's Harvard.

If you have the grades and you can afford it, I can't figure out why you can't get it. Just eliminate the race and gender boxes from college and work applications. THERE, DONE!

 

The only way we are ever going to get close to equal admission into college is if they cut out those boxes. If you don't know what color they are and you are just going by grades then what favoritism are you showing? The right to pick smart students?

[Guest MikeSC]

I have no complaints whatsoever with that.

 

Although the implication that admitting American blacks is tantamount to admitting thugs into the university is rather nauseating.

That some black groups have a beef with the "wrong kind" of blacks making it into Harvard is just silly.

 

DO AWAY WITH THE WHOLE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SYSTEM.

-=Mike

...Really, not that complicated...

[teke184 0]

I have no complaints whatsoever with that.

 

Although the implication that admitting American blacks is tantamount to admitting thugs into the university is rather nauseating.

That some black groups have a beef with the "wrong kind" of blacks making it into Harvard is just silly.

 

DO AWAY WITH THE WHOLE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SYSTEM.

-=Mike

...Really, not that complicated...

Hear hear, Mike.

 

While I feel that no group should be discriminated AGAINST, I think it's bullshit to have severely slanted playing field when attempting to get into some of the top institutes of higher learning like Harvard and Michigan.

 

When you get more points towards admission for being black than for getting a perfect SAT, there's something wrong. (Michigan's admissions department DID do this at one point)

[Guest Hero to all Children]

Personally I think this is free kinds of awesome. Really. Totally. RAD.

I mean .. Jesus Lord Almighty .. this is incredible. It's the kind of "cool" I'd pay for to witness.

 

This is affirmative action eating itself up and the minorities staging a big bitching and crying fight about who is more deserving of the title of an opressed minority.

I am also all together amused by how the majority of the black kids aren't Afro-Amerians by the standard definition, meaning that our resident black pupils were actually beaten by a bunch of foreigners, immigrants who most likely didn't even grow up speaking English, who invested more effort into their schoolwork and brains.

 

I believe that this proves Bill Cosby right and that's why I'm proud to be half-American immigrant.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

This is why I refuse to use the term African-American. First, its an insult to citizens who are black by making it seem like they should have more of a connection to some vague African culture than America. Secondly, 99% of most black Americans have never even BEEN to Africa or have zero connection to the continent. And the few black Americans that DO claim to have a connection with Africa are usually faking it to try and advance some kind of knee-jerk black supremacy cause.

[Guest Brian]

Michigan also gave just as many points for legacy as it did for color IIRC.

[Jingus 0]

I would love to see an Egyptian or white South African student get legal status as an "African American" and get into a college under affirmative action, just to see the hilariously massive uproar which would be sure to follow.

[Guest MikeSC]

I would love to see an Egyptian or white South African student get legal status as an "African American" and get into a college under affirmative action, just to see the hilariously massive uproar which would be sure to follow.

I knew an Afrikaner back in college and he said that he got all kinds of hell for putting "African-American" as his "race", but since he was from S. Africa, it was actually quite accurate.

-=Mike

[Guest Urine Sane]

The "Wrong" blacks at Harvard

 

How High 2?

[Highland 0]

Affirmative action is nothing but a thinly veiled method of apartheid and segregation.

Edited June 26, 2004 by Highland

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I would love to see an Egyptian or white South African student get legal status as an "African American..."

Thought you might like this if you missed it the first time.

 

Click here...

[Guest Anglesault]

I would love to see an Egyptian or white South African student get legal status as an "African American" and get into a college under affirmative action, just to see the hilariously massive uproar which would be sure to follow.

I've always felt that way.

[lomasmoney 0]

Michigan also gave just as many points for legacy as it did for color IIRC.

thank for someone that points out that Jeff from West Bloomfield who had both parents graduate from the school is getting the same points for that as Jamal from the West Side of Detroit is getting for being black. Its really fucked up that the system is that way but that is how it is.

[lomasmoney 0]

I would love to see an Egyptian or white South African student get legal status as an "African American" and get into a college under affirmative action, just to see the hilariously massive uproar which would be sure to follow.

technically they would not be lying