Farenheit 9/11 The temperature at which

[Guest Cerebus]

A very good breakdown of why there should be a fourth part of the heirarchy of lies: lies, damn lies, statstics, and crap spewed from demagogues disguised as pundits.

 

(P.S. Before anyone shouts OMG WACKO ATTACKO BUSH PARTISAN~! you should note this comes from the website that isn't putting out the most complimentary book on Bush.)

[Jobber of the Week 0]

This board needed another Mikey thread like it needs a hole in it's noggin. I wish we had been smart and made an OAO thread for this movie early on.

 

Regardless, I'm going to actually see the movie tomorrow (today, it's early wee hours morning though) so at least then I'll finally feel qualified to hold opinion.

[Guest Cerebus]

This board needed another Mikey thread like it needs a hole in it's noggin. I wish we had been smart and made an OAO thread for this movie early on.

 

Regardless, I'm going to actually see the movie tomorrow (today, it's early wee hours morning though) so at least then I'll finally feel qualified to hold opinion.

Not worth the money if you ask me JotW. Go see Spiderman or Shrek with your woman instead and download F9/11 on the internet.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

This board needed another Mikey thread like it needs a hole in it's noggin.

You didn't like my earlier comparison of TSM needing another Mikey Moore thread like Big Media need anoother Abu Ghraib photo?...

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Fahrenheit 9/11 The temperature at which Moore's pants burn

 

That must be come heavy duty material

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Not worth the money if you ask me JotW.

Maybe it if it was just the movie, but appearantly I got a BONUS ROUND of entertainment for going to see Fatty Fatterson's movie on Independence Day, which appearantly is the exclusive property of the right wing because only they love America or something.

 

A whole bunch of righties were constantly shouting at the screen about what they thought was false or misleading, and finally someone else shouted that if they knew the movie was a pack of lies, why did they come and see it anyway? Finally, someone threw what I swear to God looked like a pile of shit (probably that novelty store variety) at the screen and at that point the activists started being asked to leave.

 

That was well worth the price of admission.

 

 

As for the movie itself, the coalition part made me laugh but a lot of it seemed too shaky to me. Yeah, the government's clearly showing favoritism to Halliburton and the Veep probably has a load of responsiblity for that one, but picking on Hamid Karzai as a bigwig for the 76 gas stations? Excuse me? If there was solid evidence behind that, why has it not been mentioned until now?

 

If there was a moderately believable connection there, surely I would have heard Paul Begala on Crossfire complain about hiring an oil industry wonk to lead Afghanistan, followed by Novak grumbling that Begala is going crazy and we need to trust the administration. Surely I would have heard someone try and bring it up to Bill O'Reilly and get crushed down under O'Reilly's shouting.

 

I haven't heard any of the sort about that, or that pipeline for that matter.

 

On the upside, the talk about the Saudis was great until he started getting into this weird conspiracy that almost hinted that 9/11 intentionally happened so that the US could start up it's war machine and Saudis would make money from the investment groups.

 

Of course, in my mind, the Saudis are a huge problem and we're going to have to eventually stand up and decalre that their government is not the sort of thing we approve of in the middle east if Bush wants to be serious about "exporting democracy" (although, personally, I think one of our greatest follies is thinking the rest of the world wants a govenrment like ours, too, no matter how great it is.) So in that regard, I am biased.

 

The ending was pretty darn creepy. You can argue about archival news footage being taken out of context as much as you want, but that woman who lost her son in the Black Hawk crash was some pretty powerful stuff. If only he didn't immediately follow it with harassing Congressmen.

 

 

 

So, I give it a 6.5 out of 10. Do I trust it completely? No. Does it worry me that some will? A tiny bit. Does it bother me in the long run? Nope, because in a sense everything that's bad for Bush is good for me, and that's just the way it is.

[Guest MikeSC]

Am I the only one a little bothered that one of the people at one of the screenings was 9/11 Commission member Richard Ben-Veniste? I've had concerns about the panel's objectivity from the get-go and this is certainly not reducing the level o' alarm.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Outside of working on the government clock, he's a person, too.

 

I don't think it'll change anything in the Commission. They'll continue to place blame on everyone who doesn't have an election to deal with, like George Tenet.

 

If someone has to vote you into office, don't worry, you'll get away fine.

[Guest MikeSC]

Outside of working on the government clock, he's a person, too.

 

I don't think it'll change anything in the Commission. They'll continue to place blame on everyone who doesn't have an election to deal with, like George Tenet.

 

If someone has to vote you into office, don't worry, you'll get away fine.

Thing is, their GOAL needs to be to APPEAR impartial. Which means wait to see the movie until AFTER the report goes out --- or don't go at a MAJOR PREMIER with every Democrat known to man.

 

It just looks terrible. It'd be like having the Impeachment Managers from the House seen at "The Clinton Chronicles".

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Wait, they had large screenings of "The Clinton Chronicles" and I missed it? I could have sworn that the Chronicles was something you can get on VHS

[Guest MikeSC]

Wait, they had large screenings of "The Clinton Chronicles" and I missed it? I could have sworn that the Chronicles was something you can get on VHS

Fortunately, the right does a better job of marginalizing its crazies than the left.

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

yeah.. the right has a way of distancing themselves from various people once they get 'embarassing'. (I'd imagine you're keeping your distance from the people who are putting out petitions urging Ashcroft to brand Michael Moore a traitor).

 

I was just commenting that you were making a comparison with one event which would have never happened

[Guest MikeSC]

yeah.. the right has a way of distancing themselves from various people once they get 'embarassing'. (I'd imagine you're keeping your distance from the people who are putting out petitions urging Ashcroft to brand Michael Moore a traitor).

 

I was just commenting that you were making a comparison with one event which would have never happened

I don't know anybody who has started petitions for Ashcroft. Heck, I'm not fond of Ashcroft, either. I've not heard word one of these petitions and I wouldn't support it. Label him a greasy, fat fuck without much talent and I'll happily sign.

 

If the right decided to really back it up, "Clinton Chronicles" could've made money. As we've seen, asinine conspiracy theories powered by VERY selective editing is apparently a goldmine.

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

The petition is here

 

just mentioning that

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Maybe it if it was just the movie, but appearantly I got a BONUS ROUND of entertainment...

Holy crap that's great.

 

Now it's time to pull out the "OMG FREE SPEECH NAZIS" Card on the people asking these patriots to leave the theater because they were throwing fake poo at an All-Anti-American Shithead...

[Guest MikeSC]

The petition is here

 

just mentioning that

I'll assume you were unaware that this link simply unloads 70+ pop-ups that you can't shut down without shutting off your computer.

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

considering that I use a popup blocker.. I didn't notice that.

[Guest MikeSC]

considering that I use a popup blocker.. I didn't notice that.

I didn't with AOL this time, and it killed my computer.

 

However, what I was about to say is that I tend to get in trouble for expressing my views on on-line petitions. I will just say that you should grill a steak in support of whatever you want to petition --- it's every inch as effective and many times more tasty.

 

Whichever douche came up with that petition is just a random troll.

-=Mike

[mister foozel 0]

Not worth the money if you ask me JotW.

Maybe it if it was just the movie, but appearantly I got a BONUS ROUND of entertainment for going to see Fatty Fatterson's movie on Independence Day, which appearantly is the exclusive property of the right wing because only they love America or something.

 

A whole bunch of righties were constantly shouting at the screen about what they thought was false or misleading, and finally someone else shouted that if they knew the movie was a pack of lies, why did they come and see it anyway? Finally, someone threw what I swear to God looked like a pile of shit (probably that novelty store variety) at the screen and at that point the activists started being asked to leave.

 

That was well worth the price of admission.

 

 

As for the movie itself, the coalition part made me laugh but a lot of it seemed too shaky to me. Yeah, the government's clearly showing favoritism to Halliburton and the Veep probably has a load of responsiblity for that one, but picking on Hamid Karzai as a bigwig for the 76 gas stations? Excuse me? If there was solid evidence behind that, why has it not been mentioned until now?

 

If there was a moderately believable connection there, surely I would have heard Paul Begala on Crossfire complain about hiring an oil industry wonk to lead Afghanistan, followed by Novak grumbling that Begala is going crazy and we need to trust the administration. Surely I would have heard someone try and bring it up to Bill O'Reilly and get crushed down under O'Reilly's shouting.

 

I haven't heard any of the sort about that, or that pipeline for that matter.

 

On the upside, the talk about the Saudis was great until he started getting into this weird conspiracy that almost hinted that 9/11 intentionally happened so that the US could start up it's war machine and Saudis would make money from the investment groups.

 

Of course, in my mind, the Saudis are a huge problem and we're going to have to eventually stand up and decalre that their government is not the sort of thing we approve of in the middle east if Bush wants to be serious about "exporting democracy" (although, personally, I think one of our greatest follies is thinking the rest of the world wants a govenrment like ours, too, no matter how great it is.) So in that regard, I am biased.

 

The ending was pretty darn creepy. You can argue about archival news footage being taken out of context as much as you want, but that woman who lost her son in the Black Hawk crash was some pretty powerful stuff. If only he didn't immediately follow it with harassing Congressmen.

 

 

 

So, I give it a 6.5 out of 10. Do I trust it completely? No. Does it worry me that some will? A tiny bit. Does it bother me in the long run? Nope, because in a sense everything that's bad for Bush is good for me, and that's just the way it is.

of course you didnt hear about all that stuff, you werent supposed to

 

that's a major basis of the movie

 

after seeing the movie, it makes me feel even more proud to be canadian

 

paul martin is a moron and all, but he's no bush,

 

and i didnt vote for him

[Jobber of the Week 0]

of course you didnt hear about all that stuff, you werent supposed to

 

that's a major basis of the movie

No, you don't seem to understand politics over here, I guess. Everything that "you're not supposed to hear about" is always pulled out by the other side and used as ammunition in the fine spectator sport of partisan shitflinging. Each side has it's more rational debaters, and then each side has it's people who are willing to forgive a lack of information or evidence for an oppertunity to slam the other guy, even if they wind up looking like an ass by the time the evidence is really revealed. The right has Shawn Hannity, the left has Michael Moore.

 

Kerry would go on about the pipeline stuff in a hot second if there was enough evidence that most people would believe it. But since this isn't a book and Moore doesn't have a back page to list all his references, it's very hard to fact check with anything said in the movie, and so heaven only knows how much is true and how much is stretched and taken out of context.

[Guest Hero to all Children]

after seeing the movie, it makes me feel even more proud to be canadian

... Good lord, where to start.

That you're Canadian doesn't mean you're informed, I'll just assume that you're not.

Unless you can tell me who Zoran Djindjic was. Or why the Dutch are so god damned screwed when it comes to their Balkans track record. Hey, did you hear about these thirteen (now twelve, one of them commited suicide) innocent people who were under suspicion and in jail for being child molesters soley on the grounds of the lying, sexually abusive mother and the children who even claimed that they saw the pastor who was accused kill a child ... that was sitting in the courtroom, clearly visible?

According to the mother she made it all up, the involvement of these people. The only reason they even got investigated is because she wanted to pull people down with her and the claims of the children were bullshit but everyone was too "aww, the poor children" to actually realize how far away from reality they were.

Thirteen innocent men and women with broken families, divorced spouses, destroyeed careers and their own children (if they have any) in foster care.

 

Did you know about these things or are you just the generic stereotype Canadian who is patriotic on the grounds of "well at least we're better than the US, hur hur"?

Nothing against Canadians. I know some damned fine and sensible Canadian but I also know a lot of people who are the reason for this stereotype's existance.

 

Just because Michael Moore mentions it in a documentary of his doesn't make it true or likely. Just because I hijack the TV live feed for the super bowl and say "I'm the king of France" over and over again doesn't make it true either.

 

 

 

Look, here, I'll explain it in really simple terms:

Michael Moore is a fat, dumb propagandist with a terrible track record regarding fact-checking and integrity.

This movie is a dumb piece of shit.

Any man with half a testicle and an internet access can get all the news information they want from various sources all over the world. Michael Moore hasn't said anything that ten nutjobs on indymedia haven't said already.

If you think that Canadian media doesn't baby you by deciding what information they feed you, you're more wrong than the love between a hippopotamos and a sparrow.

[Guest MikeSC]

of course you didnt hear about all that stuff, you werent supposed to

 

that's a major basis of the movie

No, you don't seem to understand politics over here, I guess. Everything that "you're not supposed to hear about" is always pulled out by the other side and used as ammunition in the fine spectator sport of partisan shitflinging. Each side has it's more rational debaters, and then each side has it's people who are willing to forgive a lack of information or evidence for an oppertunity to slam the other guy, even if they wind up looking like an ass by the time the evidence is really revealed. The right has Shawn Hannity, the left has Michael Moore.

 

Kerry would go on about the pipeline stuff in a hot second if there was enough evidence that most people would believe it. But since this isn't a book and Moore doesn't have a back page to list all his references, it's very hard to fact check with anything said in the movie, and so heaven only knows how much is true and how much is stretched and taken out of context.

Most of his allegations are in his previous books --- Stupid White Men is definitely used in that movie a lot --- and his books are jokes in terms of fact-checking, too.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Yeah, I've read that one.

 

I want to go see the movie THIS guy saw:

 

For all it's hype, the movie starts out somewhat slow and confusing. Michael Moore is being chased across what is either an ice planet or Flint, Michigan in wintertime, by Ashcroft's brutal dissent-crushing thugs. I might add that Moore is looking fantastic. Gone are his trademark undulating rolls of fat, to be replaced by a hard, svelte physique that makes the Governator look like a 98-pound weakling. Moore's obviously been working out, and he kicks major neocon ass through the whole movie. There's something weird going on with his eyes, though. I've never been one for the vanity of colored contacts, let alone the glow-in-the-dark style Mike is sporting. Yet symbolically, they fit him to a "T". After all, he's a man with vision, who can see through the cold darkness of Bushie lies and right into the heart of pure Truth.

 

After making short order of the goons and stealing their spaceship, Moore takes his camera to Iraq, where Bush's junta already has a hegemonic stranglehold on the innocent, befuddled populace. Seeking to impose a fascist theocracy upon all human life, Bush moves from nation-state to nation-state, ordering all to either convert or die. "You're either with us, or against us!" Bush proclaims as he rips the very soul out of one plucky ACLU lawyer who dares question him.

 

Bush's show of cowboy machismo doesn't phase Michael Moore, who flexes his muscles and growls "I wanna piece of YOU!" to one of Dubya's subordinates. The audience is then treated to a very thrilling knife fight that ends with a neocon lying dead at Moore's feet.

 

More...

[Justice 0]

I agree with Jobber.

 

And if Michael Moore could deliver a documentary with that stuff, he would truly deserve an Oscar.

 

Edit: I just realized that he saw The Chronicles of Riddick instead. That whole thing did sound familiar, and he fit it surprisingly well to what Mikey would have done.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I know, I know, another Mikey Moore post. Shoot me.

 

I just thought this was interesting, and as a bonus I will not make a fat joke here.

 

Link and stuff...

 

French Flock to Moore's 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

 

By ELAINE GANLEY, Associated Press Writer

 

PARIS - France's passion for cinema and its collective antipathy for President Bush (news - web sites) made Wednesday's opening of "Fahrenheit 9/11" a headline event that quickly proved a boon at the box office. But even Michael Moore could not escape that critical Gallic eye.

 

The movie that won the highest award at May's Cannes Film Festival (news - web sites) wracked up "extraordinary" ticket sales for its first afternoon showings in Paris, according to the MK2 movie chain.

 

Elevating the movie to an event, the left-leaning newspaper Liberation left the laudatory commentary to its nationally known executive editor. "Michael Moore is a television show unto himself," Serge July wrote, praising the director as the "American Falstaff of documentaries."

 

The cover of the Communist daily L'Humanite's portrayed Moore dressed up like the Statue of Liberty, wearing a smile and a baseball cap.

 

Figures compiled by Mars Distribution, the movie's French distributor, showed 4,372 people attending the first afternoon show at movie theaters around Paris — versus 10 to 1,110 for other movies in town.

 

The figures are no surprise, considering the French government spearheaded the opposition to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq (news - web sites) and polls have shown that the French roundly disapprove of Bush.

 

The movie already had proved to be a record-breaking documentary in the United States, where it's grossed $61.1 million since debuting June 23.

 

"I think this movie is a very good thing," said Clement Ipoulet, 25, after coming out of a movie theater on the Champs-Elysees, where the audience applauded at the end of the film. "Even if a majority of the French thought this, I think that now they have a confirmation."

 

But the French rarely resist criticizing winners — not to mention anything made in America — and not everyone had accolades for "Fahrenheit 9/11."

 

The daily newspaper Le Monde wrote: "To affirm ... that it was crowned (in Cannes) for its cinemagraphic qualities is either proof of incompetence, a pure lie or a cynical joke."

 

Le Monde said the film more closely resembles propaganda, and it carried a separate article to separate "truths" from "errors" in the film.

 

Moore, in an interview with Liberation, said the movie "presents my own version of the facts."

 

Even less kind was France's superstar philosopher, Bernard-Henri Levy, who dismissed "Fahrenheit 9/11" as dishonest.

 

"When Michael Moore describes Iraq, before the American intervention, as a sort of oasis of peace and happiness, where people flew kites .... there wasn't only that," Levy said on RTL radio.

 

Levy noted that he opposed the war and considers Bush a "catastrophe for America." But, he added: "Saddam Hussein was also a horrible dictator. And that is not in the film of Michael Moore."

 

For 20-year-old student Adrien Bloch, it was much simpler.

 

"It's very important, this movie," he said. "We don't like Bush and this movie is anti-Bush ... It reflects our thinking."

[Vyce 0]

So even though the French admit that the film is dishonest and essentially propaganda, they basically dismiss that because they agree with the film's anti-Bush message.

 

..........

 

.....I may have to stop criticizing France. They're apparently more like America than I thought.

[Guest MikeSC]

So even though the French admit that the film is dishonest and essentially propaganda, they basically dismiss that because they agree with the film's anti-Bush message.

 

..........

 

.....I may have to stop criticizing France. They're apparently more like America than I thought.

Well, some hardcore liberals have the same BO problem than the French have.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I think almost everyone's admitted that it's rooted in propaganda. ???

[Guest MikeSC]

I think almost everyone's admitted that it's rooted in propaganda. ???

What, the film?

 

Try reading the comments on the movie board. They aren't buying it as propaganda.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I meant the intelligent people.

 

The film is pretty much as cut and dried if you like. If you trust the honesty and integrity of the people at the top, you'll hate this movie. If you don't, you'll be thankful it's made, even if you think the gasbag is wrong on a number of things.