Bret Hart responds to Ric Flair's comments

[chaosrage 0]

Which would make him fodder. Continuing to lose to a guy who refused vto lay down for him, and quite frankly openly said that he wouldn't lie down for anyone, is not the kind of guy you want to continue working with.

Undertaker lost twice to Michaels and didn't become fodder. He didn't even get a win. Bret was supposed to win the last match, essentially winning the feud. Again, Shawn only refused to lose to Bret because he was leaving.

 

And then he gets a short reign to be unseated by Austin, at which point he would become a number two guy.

 

Why should he be any higher than that? It's kind of silly to expect Vince to hold Austin back just to make Bret happy.

[Hektik 0]

Undertaker lost twice to Michaels and didn't become fodder. He didn't even get a win. Bret was supposed to win the last match, essentially winning the feud. Again, Shawn only refused to lose to Bret because he was leaving.

You make it seem like Michaels was trying to be a company man. Too bad he wasn't earlier in the year. When he was champion, he threatened to quit because he did not not want to job to Sid, which brought about the whole lost his smile speech. He would threaten to quit and jump to WCW many times in 1997 if he did not get his way. As Meltzer pointed out, it is quite comical to see how many titles he won and then see that he would never be beaten in the ring to lose many of them.

 

Why should he be any higher than that? It's kind of silly to expect Vince to hold Austin back just to make Bret happy.

Why would Bret want Austin held back, he was very much in favor of Austin. If you look back in late 1997, Bret said he would lose the title on Raw after the Survivor Series to Taker, Austin, Vader, or the Brooklyn Brawler.

[Guest MikeSC]

You make it seem like Michaels was trying to be a company man. Too bad he wasn't earlier in the year. When he was champion, he threatened to quit because he did not not want to job to Sid, which brought about the whole lost his smile speech. He would threaten to quit and jump to WCW many times in 1997 if he did not get his way. As Meltzer pointed out, it is quite comical to see how many titles he won and then see that he would never be beaten in the ring to lose many of them..

How is Michaels being a dick a defense for Hart being a dick?

Why would Bret want Austin held back, he was very much in favor of Austin. If you look back in late 1997, Bret said he would lose the title on Raw after the Survivor Series to Taker, Austin, Vader, or the Brooklyn Brawler.

He was willing to job the night AFTER Survivor Series?

 

So, using your logic, the whole "I don't want to job in Canada" was, well, BS. He just didn't want to job to HBK.

-=Mike

[Guest wildpegasus]

He was a heavy draw in all of Canada and playing a patriot. It's alot different than most other arguments, especially considering within the business Canada is treated as a single territory.

That was his gimmick tho, that wasn't him. His reasoning was like he was a hoemtown hero. The Patriot was an American Hero, aso was Kurt Angle. It would be ridiculous to say they wouldnt job in the US. Ur hometown is one thing, but Bret was just relying on his angle to get what he wanted, and it backfired.

It's different in Canada. A good example of this is the rescent NHL playoffs. Hockey isn't as big as it once was in Canada but it's still popular. When Calgary were the only team left all of Canada starting cheering for them. THey were Canada's team. It was the same with Bret. A Canadian doing well in the big WWF promotion that was primarily US based. Just like Calgary were Canada's team this year Bret was Canada's team in the WWF and had been for quite awhile. Canada although a larger country than the US has about 1/10th of the population of the States so it feels good when we have someone go international and do so well. Canada also takes pride in its closeness. Trust me, the fans of Canada were more emotionally and passionately behind Bret than the States were behind the Patriot or anytime in Kurt Angle's career.

[Promoter 0]

I guess people think Bret shouldn't have been picky with whom he jobbed his title to. Well, Vince stated about a long standing tradition in wrestling. I think traditionally the world champ(of a strong stature/status) does pick who he jobs his title to for the most part(I know some fall into the kayfabe era). Here is a list of people who have done so.

 

Bob Backlund chose Iron Shiek to lose his title to because of his background instead of masked superstar.

 

Dynamite Kid on a HOSPITAL bed did not want to job the tag title to Nikolai Volkoff and Iron Sheik. He wanted the belts jobbed to the Hart Foundation.

 

Honky Tonk Man refused to job his title to Randy Savage and jobbed to Warrior.

 

I also saw the Hogan/Warrior stuff brought up. I don't think it was an accident Hogan chose to lose to Ultimate Warrior before anyone else on the roster.

 

I also find it coincidental that Hogan did not lose to Bret Hart for SummerSlam 93, but chose the bigger sized Yokozuna.

 

I think all these guys are guilty for being marks for themselves.

 

That news from Meltzer if true about the Mcmahons liking the cheap shots thrown at their former stars just shows how immature all these people in the business are. I was suspicious that this Flair stuff was politically motivated. It's too ironic that he takes shots at Savage and Hart. Foley I understood for his rant on him from Have A Nice Day.

[Guest MikeSC]

I guess people think Bret shouldn't have been picky with whom he jobbed his title too. Well, Vince stated about a long standing tradition in wrestling. I think traditionally the world champ does pick who he jobs his title to for the most part(I know some fall into the kayfabe era). Here is a list of people who have done so.

There's a difference in refusing to job to the unquestioned top heel in the promotion and the examples you provide.

That news from Meltzer if true about the Mcmahons liking the cheap shots thrown at their former stars just shows how immature all these people in the business are. I was suspicious that this Flair stuff was politically motivated. It's too ironic that he takes shots at Savage and Hart. Foley I understood for his rant on him from Have  A Nice Day.

Apparently, criticism is confused with "taking shots".

-=Mike

[Promoter 0]

There's a difference in refusing to job to the unquestioned top heel in the promotion and the examples you provide.

That news from Meltzer if true about the Mcmahons liking the cheap shots thrown at their former stars just shows how immature all these people in the business are. I was suspicious that this Flair stuff was politically motivated. It's too ironic that he takes shots at Savage and Hart. Foley I understood for his rant on him from Have  A Nice Day.

Apparently, criticism is confused with "taking shots".

-=Mike

I only provided those examples just to say traditionally champs have been pciky with whom they job to, but it is magnified more with Bret because of the situation. Nothing wrong with criticism, but WHY is it Hart and Savage(Savage is like blackballed for some reason and we know the Hart problems)? Why doesn't he criticize guys like HBK and HHH? Because that would hurt his position in the company. Why doesn't he criticize Vince Mcmahon? It's rather convenient. I'm not even angry at Flair's comments to be honest(with the exception of the Owen thing).

[Guest MikeSC]

There's a difference in refusing to job to the unquestioned top heel in the promotion and the examples you provide.

That news from Meltzer if true about the Mcmahons liking the cheap shots thrown at their former stars just shows how immature all these people in the business are. I was suspicious that this Flair stuff was politically motivated. It's too ironic that he takes shots at Savage and Hart. Foley I understood for his rant on him from Have  A Nice Day.

Apparently, criticism is confused with "taking shots".

-=Mike

I only provided those examples just to say traditionally champs have been pciky with whom they job to, but it is magnified more with Bret because of the situation. Nothing wrong with criticism, but WHY is it Hart and Savage(Savage is like blackballed for some reason and we know the Hart problems)? Why doesn't he criticize guys like HBK and HHH? Because that would hurt his position in the company. Why doesn't he criticize Vince Mcmahon? It's rather convenient. I'm not even angry at Flair's comments to be honest(with the exception of the Owen thing).

Maybe Flair has no problems with HHH or HBK. Maybe he's friends with them --- he didn't mention Tully's long-known rep as being a prick backstage. Who knows? It's not like his criticism of Savage is even remotely inaccurate. And you shouldn't be pissed about the Owen comment since Bret clearly isn't.

 

And why doesn't Flair bash Vince? Because he and Vince always got along --- and he also roundly praised Vince for helping rescue his self-esteem.

-=Mike

[Promoter 0]

Maybe he doesn't, but I think if Flair was about giving opinions and contructive criticism he would do it with more wrestlers. I would see reason for talking on Hulk Hogan since during his career he was always compared to him. I don't see the link to Savage or Hart(unless the best tagline is what gets him). Just giving constructive criticism for what Vince has done for the business and whatnot. I think every old school guy's perspective on Vince would be interesting. It wouldn't have to be all negative. As for the Owen comments I think people shouldn't put their mouths in stuff like that. That's personal and acting like you are in somebody's shoes and what's the purpose of putting that in your autobiography, but to slam people. I could see the participants in the event putting that in their book with those comments.

[Guest MikeSC]

Maybe he doesn't, but I think if Flair was about giving opinions and contructive criticism he would do it with more wrestlers. I would see reason for talking on Hulk Hogan since during his career he was always compared to him. I don't see the link to Savage or Hart(unless the best tagline is what gets him).

He worked major programs with them. Honestly, outside of Koloff, I can't name a major program he worked where he didn't comment on the guy he worked with.

As for the Owen comments I think people shouldn't put their mouths in stuff like that. That's personal and acting like you are in somebody's shoes and what's the purpose of putting that in your autobiography, but to slam people. I could see the participants in the event putting that in their book with those comments.

Let's be honest --- Bret barely mentioned Owen in his rant. As Meltz said, he would've easily written the same rant without Owen being mentioned.

-=Mike

[Guest Brian]

Bret Hart was a hero in Canada, and Canada was treated as a single territory, like the Carolinas and Flair. His role transcended just wrestling.

 

Undertaker lost twice to Michaels and didn't become fodder. He didn't even get a win. Bret was supposed to win the last match, essentially winning the feud. Again, Shawn only refused to lose to Bret because he was leaving.

 

This was the scenario to get Bret to stay, and a rather poor attempt. He'd lose at Montreal, which he was most against. He's lose the four way at the December show and a ladder match at Royal Rumble, only to pick it up on a RAW. Seriously, how many people would be bitching in this place if that happened with Triple H in Michaels' spot and Benoit. The sever would probably crash.

 

Michaels told Hart on three seperate occasions that he wouldn't job for him at all, and once before McMahon had told Bret he would breach his title (9/22, 10/4, 10/12/97). In fact, Michaels had told Hart on 9/22 that he wasn't going to job for him in the US anymore on 9/22.

[Promoter 0]

He worked major programs with them. Honestly, outside of Koloff, I can't name a major program he worked where he didn't comment on the guy he worked with.

 

Let's be honest --- Bret barely mentioned Owen in his rant. As Meltz said, he would've easily written the same rant without Owen being mentioned.

-=Mike

Fair enough if he does that with the major matches and storylines he's worked with. As for the Owen Hart thing what was Bret suppose to do? Write a ten page essay? Flair felt he cared more about his vendetta with Vince than about his brother's death and responded that was not the case. He dressed down Ric Flair in the article to show why he wasn't the greatest of all-time. He had to go into detail for making such a ballsy statement just in case people may feel Bret's gone delusional because of the stroke. I thought he got his points across why he felt Flair wasn't the greatest. He also said he would defend his fellow former workers and he did.

 

Brian, I'm glad you brought up those points. I can't see how it's just not simple to see HBK would not job AT ALL to Bret regardless of the situation and told Bret in his face. Bret tried to be cordial by saying he would job to him and Shawn responded he wouldn't do the same. Then add all the backstory and you got the screwed up situation in Montreal. I really believe it had nothing to do with Canada, but it was spun that way afterwards. Yes, Bret being the Canadian hero in Canada is not like Kurt Angle/Patriot/whatnot in the States. Canada btw, has always backed the wwe even in the down times. The last Observer news shows this. Vince said on OTR back in the day that Hart wasn't a Canadian hero. Recently on the show he said otherwise. I don't know if he was just kissing ass to Bret or that he now realizes how his Canadian audiences looked at Bret. Don't forget Bret's family is also revered in Canada for the contributions they have done for the business.

[Guest Brian]

ignore

[Guest JMA]

I can't wait until Bret's three volume biography comes out. It should make for a VERY interesting read. Bret's been writing columns for a while, so he'll have no problem adjusting to something new.

[chaosrage 0]

You make it seem like Michaels was trying to be a company man.  Too bad he wasn't earlier in the year.  When he was champion, he threatened to quit because he did not not want to job to Sid, which brought about the whole lost his smile speech. 

When was that? I've never heard that one. He jobbed to Sid before.

 

Why would Bret want Austin held back, he was very much in favor of Austin.  If you look back in late 1997, Bret said he would lose the title on Raw after the Survivor Series to Taker, Austin, Vader, or the Brooklyn Brawler.

 

Like I said, the only one Bret would be putting over on that whole scenario that he hated so much would have been Austin. Bret wouldn't be putting over Shawn anymore than Undertaker put him over at Bad Blood and Royal Rumble.

[chaosrage 0]

This was the scenario to get Bret to stay, and a rather poor attempt. He'd lose at Montreal, which he was most against. He's lose the four way at the December show and a ladder match at Royal Rumble, only to pick it up on a RAW. Seriously, how many people would be bitching in this place if that happened with Triple H in Michaels' spot and Benoit. The sever would probably crash.

 

I think Bret had to lose Montreal no matter what, just because Bret (and Canada) always won everything that year. Canada can't win every single match. Bret had to lose once in Canada. It didn't even have to be Survivor Suries. Vince said it could be the next month, but Bret still said no. If Benoit had looked better than every single wrestler one year (let's say it was this year), and at the end, he lost to HHH a few times by screwjob, however he won the title back at the last match, then went on main event WM, I don't think too many people would be bitching.

 

Michaels told Hart on three seperate occasions that he wouldn't job for him at all, and once before McMahon had told Bret he would breach his title (9/22, 10/4, 10/12/97). In fact, Michaels had told Hart on 9/22 that he wasn't going to job for him in the US anymore on 9/22.

9/22 was the same day Vince told him he would breach his title.

 

Edit: the top response

[Guest Brian]

That was supposed to read before McMahon told Michaels.

[chaosrage 0]

Vince probably also told Shawn on 9/22. Why else would he tell Bret that he wasn't jobbing to him on the same day?

[Guest Brian]

Because Shawn's a dick.

[chaosrage 0]

Yeah, but he could've picked another day to tell him other than the SAME EXACT day Vince picked to break the news to Bret that he was breaching his contract.

[Guest Brian]

He did. He reiterated two weeks later and a month later. While talks were see-sawing back and forth, and they were trying to come up with a proper way to leave.

[Guest Rrrsh]

He was a heavy draw in all of Canada and playing a patriot. It's alot different than most other arguments, especially considering within the business Canada is treated as a single territory.

That was his gimmick tho, that wasn't him. His reasoning was like he was a hoemtown hero. The Patriot was an American Hero, aso was Kurt Angle. It would be ridiculous to say they wouldnt job in the US. Ur hometown is one thing, but Bret was just relying on his angle to get what he wanted, and it backfired.

It's different in Canada. A good example of this is the rescent NHL playoffs. Hockey isn't as big as it once was in Canada but it's still popular. When Calgary were the only team left all of Canada starting cheering for them. THey were Canada's team. It was the same with Bret. A Canadian doing well in the big WWF promotion that was primarily US based. Just like Calgary were Canada's team this year Bret was Canada's team in the WWF and had been for quite awhile. Canada although a larger country than the US has about 1/10th of the population of the States so it feels good when we have someone go international and do so well. Canada also takes pride in its closeness. Trust me, the fans of Canada were more emotionally and passionately behind Bret than the States were behind the Patriot or anytime in Kurt Angle's career.

I live in Canada and have lived here my whole life. Bret Hart was mega over in Canada. However, his 1997 angle made him this Canadian Patriot. Before that, he was just a really over face from Canada. HUGE diffence.

 

 

Hockey is very diffent because Canadians feel Americans have stolen their game. Any Canadian team (except those fukin Leafs) would have got that responnce. Test aint no Canadian hero, with or without a World Title.

[Guest Rrrsh]

I guess people think Bret shouldn't have been picky with whom he jobbed his title to. Well, Vince stated about a long standing tradition in wrestling. I think traditionally the world champ(of a strong stature/status) does pick who he jobs his title to for the most part(I know some fall into the kayfabe era). Here is a list of people who have done so.

 

Bob Backlund chose Iron Shiek to lose his title to because of his background instead of masked superstar.

 

Dynamite Kid on a HOSPITAL bed did not want to job the tag title to Nikolai Volkoff and Iron Sheik. He wanted the belts jobbed to the Hart Foundation.

 

Honky Tonk Man refused to job his title to Randy Savage and jobbed to Warrior.

 

I also saw the Hogan/Warrior stuff brought up. I don't think it was an accident Hogan chose to lose to Ultimate Warrior before anyone else on the roster.

 

I also find it coincidental that Hogan did not lose to Bret Hart for SummerSlam 93, but chose the bigger sized Yokozuna.

 

I think all these guys are guilty for being marks for themselves.

 

That news from Meltzer if true about the Mcmahons liking the cheap shots thrown at their former stars just shows how immature all these people in the business are. I was suspicious that this Flair stuff was politically motivated. It's too ironic that he takes shots at Savage and Hart. Foley I understood for his rant on him from Have A Nice Day.

HTM was cornered and forced into losing the belt. He didnt want to lose it to anybody.

 

And the Yoko thing was Hogan being a dick and Vince taking it off him as soon as possible.

[chaosrage 0]

He did. He reiterated two weeks later and a month later. While talks were see-sawing back and forth, and they were trying to come up with a proper way to leave.

The point is he knew he was leaving. That's why he told him on the same day Hart found out his contract was getting breached. He didn't want to job to someone leaving to go to WCW.

[Guest Brian]

But he also told him later, when they were negotiating around that, before they knew of Bischoff's big offer. So basically, Michaels was being an unprofessional dick.

[geniusMoment 0]

Bret is on WOL right now, for anyone who wants to listen.

[KTID 0]

He did. He reiterated two weeks later and a month later. While talks were see-sawing back and forth, and they were trying to come up with a proper way to leave.

 

The point is he knew he was leaving. That's why he told him on the same day Hart found out his contract was getting breached. He didn't want to job to someone leaving to go to WCW.

 

 

I love how you're trying to make Shawn Michaels out to be some sort of good company man.

[Guest Rrrsh]

He did. He reiterated two weeks later and a month later. While talks were see-sawing back and forth, and they were trying to come up with a proper way to leave.

 

The point is he knew he was leaving. That's why he told him on the same day Hart found out his contract was getting breached. He didn't want to job to someone leaving to go to WCW.

 

 

I love how you're trying to make Shawn Michaels out to be some sort of good company man.

In 1997, neither Bret or Shawn were company men. However, Vince was always thinking ahead and there way no way in hell Bret wasn't doing a job on the way out. Everyone does it, Bret aint any diiferent.

[chaosrage 0]

I know he wasn't, but I think he was definitely in the right this time. Why should he have been willing to lose to a guy leaving the company? Like he said, that would have been stupid. It's about more than just Shawn hating Bret.

 

What's the url for the WOL interview?

[SuperJerk 0]

When he was champion, he threatened to quit because he did not not want to job to Sid, which brought about the whole lost his smile speech.

Sid?

 

I always thought the cause of that was not wanting to job to return Bret's job from WMXII.

 

My understanding was that the "In Your House" fatal fourway--which happened three days after the "lost my smile" speech, if I'm not mistaken--was originally intended to be for number one-contendership until Shawn vacated the title, and it became FOR the title, which Bret was booked to win. When Shawn vacated the title, it was too late to include Sid, so Bret dropped the strap to Sid on the next night's Raw. Sid would then go on be in WM13 main event.