Why I respect Jim Cornette

[Jacques 0]

Obviously you didn't saw much of USWA. It was atleast as big as TNA back in the day.

Yes, but that had less to do with Jarrett than it did with Lawler.

Umm.. I never said it was because of Jarrett. Thanks anyway for proving my point that he was a main eventer in a pretty big fed.

 

He was mega over during his "women are inferior" days. He just needed a semi-push to become a main eventer.

Yes, but he was still J-E-Double-F J-A-Double R-E-Double T. He's the reason I didn't watch WWE back then, and was the reason I switched from WCW. I know lots of people who did the same.

Well thanks again for acknowledging that he was mega-over thus proving my point. And for the rest .. well you might as well have said he's a jerk

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Just watched Rock Bottom: In Your House from 12/98. He wasn't mega-over. Sorry.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Technically, that was before the time period the guy's talking about.

 

He was never 'mega-over' though.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

So when did he go to WCW? What was he mega-over for like 5 days or something?

Jeez, this is the stupidest argument, because my point is so easily proven.

 

In TNA, Jarrett has main-evented more or less from day one. Is he mega-over? Not close. Does he draw? Not at all. Over. Finished. Done. You can hypothetically argue the past all day long, but the guy is clearly not getiing it done RIGHT NOW.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

So when did he go to WCW? What was he mega-over for like 5 days or something?

Jeez, this is the stupidest argument, because my point is so easily proven.

He pretty much switched places with Jericho. When Jericho left WCW, Jarrett joined.

[Jacques 0]

So when did he go to WCW? What was he mega-over for like 5 days or something?

5 days? I thought you were an old-school fan and knew a little about wrestling history. He was mega-over during his singles run after the death of Owen. I hope you're not looking for monster pops watching your little video as ofcourse mega-over in the context of heel is a little different as at that period he was getting booed heavily.

 

In TNA, Jarrett has main-evented more or less from day one. Is he mega-over? ]

Yes he is mega over. He created a riot in Mexico, was over as hell during his face run, is doing a fabulous job as a cheating heel and obviously reading some posts around here, he is the one of the most talked about guy.

 

Does he draw?

Ofcourse he does. That is why TNA is getting 9000-21000 buys per week(Credit PWTorch) and have got a TV deal. He was involved in the best two feuds in TNA history in Jarrett-Raven and Jarrrett-Styles.

 

Nuff said.

[Guest MikeSC]

So when did he go to WCW? What was he mega-over for like 5 days or something?

5 days? I thought you were an old-school fan and knew a little about wrestling history. He was mega-over during his singles run after the death of Owen. I hope you're not looking for monster pops watching your little video as ofcourse mega-over in the context of heel is a little different as at that period he was getting booed heavily.

He got a mini-rub from Owen's passing (which gave him the IC Title). He then wallowed to mediocre reactions for most of the remainder of his stay. Hell, D-Lo gave him a rub.

Yes he is mega over. He created a riot in Mexico, was over as hell during his face run, is doing a fabulous job as a cheating heel and obviously reading some posts around here, he is the one of the most talked about guy.

Shame he can't draw a paying crowd in America.

 

And, you know, Test gets discussed MORE than Jarrett does. I suppose that makes Test a bigger draw.

 

Which actually is probably true --- and sadder than all imagination.

Ofcourse he does. That is why TNA is getting 9000-21000 buys per week(Credit PWTorch)

7500 (source Meltzer, Dave).

 

Dave has a slightly better track record.

and have got a TV deal.

Infomercial = JJ is over?

He was involved in the best two feuds in TNA history in Jarrett-Raven and Jarrrett-Styles.

Shockingly, he ended up going over in both.

 

And lord knows that has worked out well for them.

Obviously you didn't saw much of USWA. It was atleast as big as TNA back in the day.

By the time, JJ was "main eventing" and they were basically only on in Memphis. Their ESPN deal expired around the time Lawler started working heavily in the WWF.

He was mega over during his "women are inferior" days. He just needed a semi-push to become a main eventer.

He actually needed NUMEROUS pushes.

 

First, there was that Aztec Warrior thing.

Then he was NWA N. American Champ.

Then you weren't supposed to piss him off.

Then he was backed up by Southern Justice.

Then he leached off Owen's heat, even post-mortem.

Then he leached off D-Lo's heat.

And who else would be a better candidate to be a booker then a guy with 15 years experience in the business, been atleast an upper-carder everywhere he's wrestled at and a damn solid wrestler to boost.

Somebody who all of the above could be said about who spent most of his time in profitable promotions.

Everybody bitches about how he has buried everybody when ALL the opponents he has beaten are by cheating. He beat AJ by cheating, defeated Chris Harris when Harris had him beat twice in the match and Kid Kash told ref to stop counting or he will lose his job and he buried Truth by, well ...actually jobbing to him.

AJ is in the X Division.

Harris is back in AMW.

Truth is a non-entity in the ME picture.

 

Yup, he's promoted talent.

Umm.. I never said it was because of Jarrett. Thanks anyway for proving my point that he was a main eventer in a pretty big fed.

It was about as big as OVW is today, to be honest. Which means that Rico is a better draw than JJ, since he did quite well there.

 

Yeah, I know it's the case --- but isn't it a bizarre coincidence?

-=Mike

[TNABaddboi 0]

Yes he is mega over. He created a riot in Mexico, was over as hell during his face run, is doing a fabulous job as a cheating heel and obviously reading some posts around here, he is the one of the most talked about guy.

 

You can't deny the fact that TNA got him over as a babyface during his title chase and up until the beginning of the Raven feud (which i thought was next to impossible), and he did create a near riot in Mexico, but that had absolutely nothing to do with his character and more to do with him going over a hometown hero. But now, I think most of the heat he receives is of the go away variety.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

But now, I think most of the heat he receives is of the go away variety.

X-Pac Heat.

[Guest MikeSC]

Yes he is mega over. He created a riot in Mexico, was over as hell during his face run, is doing a fabulous job as a cheating heel and obviously reading some posts around here, he is the one of the most talked about guy.

 

You can't deny the fact that TNA got him over as a babyface during his title chase and up until the beginning of the Raven feud (which i thought was next to impossible), and he did create a near riot in Mexico, but that had absolutely nothing to do with his character and more to do with him going over a hometown hero. But now, I think most of the heat he receives is of the go away variety.

Heck, how can a guy CAUSE a riot? I think Flair is one helluva good draw --- if he went over Veneno in the Dominican Republic and a riot started (damned near did anyway), it wasn't because of Flair --- it was because he beat the local legend.

-=Mike

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

5 days? I thought you were an old-school fan and knew a little about wrestling history.

 

I've been civil to this point. Don't piss me off, OK?

 

Yes he is mega over.

 

Have you watched TNA, uh, ever? If he were mega-over, I think they would have had more than one sell-out in company history.

 

He created a riot in Mexico,

 

That's not a TNA show, which happens to be what we are talking about. You can talk about Mexico, backwoods Tennessee, 20 years ago or whatever, but the guy doesn't draw NOW. Don't believe me ? Watch the show. Then watch WWE, who is at their lowest point in years. Who's drawing more? Jarrett or Chuck Palumbo.

 

Ofcourse he does. That is why TNA is getting 9000-21000 buys per week(Credit PWTorch) and have got a TV deal.

 

They're not breaking even. Don't you get it?

 

He was involved in the best two feuds in TNA history in Jarrett-Raven and Jarrrett-Styles.

 

Of course he was, he's involved in ALL the feuds.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Heck, how can a guy CAUSE a riot?

 

G.G. Allin crapped onstage at a club in Charlotte. Full riot ensued.

[Guest MikeSC]

Heck, how can a guy CAUSE a riot?

 

G.G. Allin crapped onstage at a club in Charlotte. Full riot ensued.

They rioted over THAT? Oh come on, who hasn't defocated on stage?

 

Hands?

-=Mike

[Magus 0]

Jarrett COULD be a main eventer, but never has. bland in the ring, bland on the mic, and he's only ever in the ME when he or his pals are booking the show.

 

but lets not argue over the past. let's look at how well he's getting over right now: he's waltzing around in a tuxedo carrying a cardboard guitar (and he STILL wears the shiny silver tights). that does not equal superstar, folks.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

but lets not argue over the past. let's look at how well he's getting over right now: he's waltzing around in a tuxedo carrying a cardboard guitar (and he STILL wears the shiny silver tights). that does not equal superstar, folks.

This is the most valid anti-Jarrett point yet.

 

*raises hand, then quickly lowers it because I don't lie*

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Oh come on, who hasn't defocated on stage?

 

Accidentally, sure. But not on pupose.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Jarrett's drawing powers can be summed up with one example: Destiny.

 

The very first Raven/Jarrett match. April 30th, 2003. Signs all over the arena read "Tonight, Jarrett," and "Destiny Fulfilled" and other such pro-Raven slogans. I think I saw maybe two pro-Jarrett signs (and this isn't me being a Jarrett-hater, as I actually liked him until this point), and they were both from the same two fat girls in the front row that cheer for all of the faces and boo all of the heels (read: the two marks in the front). The TNA Asylum is jam-packed, and a solid show occurs. Every match is heated. Then the main event occurs. What goes down is the single reason why TNA continually lost fans and viewers from the summer of 2003 until very recently.

 

Raven has Jarrett knocked down. He calls for his Extreme Revolution allies. Out comes The Sandman, Perry Saturn, Justin Credible, and New Jack. New Jack and Sandman beat on Jarrett with Saturn and Credible get chairs. New Jack and Sandman stand Jarrett up and hold a chair each to the sides of his head, allowing Credible and Saturn to superkick the chairs, sandwiching Jarrett's head in between them. Normally, this would be a death spot, and anybody - even Hulk Hogan - would have jobbed to this move. But no. Sabu came out and single-handedly ran the Extreme Revolution off, and when the referee came to, Raven went for the Evenflow, but Jarrett - clear-headed as could be - reversed the DDT into The Stroke and won by pinfall in the middle of the ring.

 

Fans threw trash into the ring (and not all of it was from the Heel Section, just the majority of it), as they wanted Raven to become champion. RAVEN was the draw in this feud. He wrote it, he hyped it, and people wanted HIM to be the winner on April 30th. When Jarrett's booking of the match essentially made Jarrett into God Almighty by withstanding punishment no other wrestler would have been booked to withstand, and finishing off Raven with the weakest of finishers in all of TNA, the fans turned on him.

 

Sick of seeing Jarrett being the headliner of the shows when it was obvious that the X-Division and Raven were bigger draws (the hottest matches were X-Division or Raven matches, and most signs in the arena were for X-Division workers or Raven), the fans started leaving. First, it was the standing room only crowd. Then, the most diehard of TNA supporters, the Heel Section, left. After that, it became apparent that fans didn't want to see the show, even for free, because Jarrett was still booked as if he was the top guy, even though he wasn't drawing, wasn't incredibly over, and wasn't champion.

 

Jarrett is anything BUT a draw. He's a wasted space in the main event that is only there because he has the pencil. TNA's PPV shows don't break even, and haven't since first quarter 2003. TNA's live audiences are comped, meaning they are given free tickets. Jarrett's reactions when he enters the ring is near-silence. The only heat he gets is by feuding with somebody the fans care about.

 

Basically, what it all comes down to is the fact that Jarrett is not a draw because TNA had to pay for their FSN timeslot instead of being offered it and have to give free tickets to fans so they come to the show. If Jarrett were a draw? I doubt either of these would need to happen. Now shut up and learn just what the hell a "draw" is in this business.

[stahl 0]

Ofcourse he does. That is why TNA is getting 9000-21000 buys per week(Credit PWTorch) and have got a TV deal.

 

They aren't getting that many buys, they are getting an average of 6000 - 8000 buys. If they were getting 20 000 buys they would be jumping for joy since they would have a chance at breaking even.

[Jacques 0]

Shockingly, he ended up going over in both.

Nope, AJ defeated him.

 

 

 

First, there was that Aztec Warrior thing.

Then he was NWA N. American Champ.

Then you weren't supposed to piss him off.

Then he was backed up by Southern Justice.

Then he leached off Owen's heat, even post-mortem.

Then he leached off D-Lo's heat.

He leached Owen's heat!!! You do remember that Owen was just Jarrett's sidekick? Right. He leached D'Lo's non-existant heat too? Wow amazing.

 

AJ is in the X Division.

Harris is back in AMW.

Truth is a non-entity in the ME picture.

 

Yup, he's promoted talent.

And just when I thought your arguments can't get any more dumber, you come with this. Truth just main-evented and won against Jarrett a couple of weeks ago, AMW main evented last week and AJ is going to main event next week. Instead of every main players in one division, TNA has distributed them to solidify the whole card.

[Jacques 0]

Jarrett's drawing powers can be summed up with one example: Destiny.

 

The very first Raven/Jarrett match. April 30th, 2003. Signs all over the arena read "Tonight, Jarrett," and "Destiny Fulfilled" and other such pro-Raven slogans. I think I saw maybe two pro-Jarrett signs (and this isn't me being a Jarrett-hater, as I actually liked him until this point), and they were both from the same two fat girls in the front row that cheer for all of the faces and boo all of the heels (read: the two marks in the front). The TNA Asylum is jam-packed, and a solid show occurs. Every match is heated. Then the main event occurs. What goes down is the single reason why TNA continually lost fans and viewers from the summer of 2003 until very recently.

 

Raven has Jarrett knocked down. He calls for his Extreme Revolution allies. Out comes The Sandman, Perry Saturn, Justin Credible, and New Jack. New Jack and Sandman beat on Jarrett with Saturn and Credible get chairs. New Jack and Sandman stand Jarrett up and hold a chair each to the sides of his head, allowing Credible and Saturn to superkick the chairs, sandwiching Jarrett's head in between them. Normally, this would be a death spot, and anybody - even Hulk Hogan - would have jobbed to this move. But no. Sabu came out and single-handedly ran the Extreme Revolution off, and when the referee came to, Raven went for the Evenflow, but Jarrett - clear-headed as could be - reversed the DDT into The Stroke and won by pinfall in the middle of the ring.

 

Fans threw trash into the ring (and not all of it was from the Heel Section, just the majority of it), as they wanted Raven to become champion. RAVEN was the draw in this feud. He wrote it, he hyped it, and people wanted HIM to be the winner on April 30th. When Jarrett's booking of the match essentially made Jarrett into God Almighty by withstanding punishment no other wrestler would have been booked to withstand, and finishing off Raven with the weakest of finishers in all of TNA, the fans turned on him.

 

Sick of seeing Jarrett being the headliner of the shows when it was obvious that the X-Division and Raven were bigger draws (the hottest matches were X-Division or Raven matches, and most signs in the arena were for X-Division workers or Raven), the fans started leaving. First, it was the standing room only crowd. Then, the most diehard of TNA supporters, the Heel Section, left. After that, it became apparent that fans didn't want to see the show, even for free, because Jarrett was still booked as if he was the top guy, even though he wasn't drawing, wasn't incredibly over, and wasn't champion.

 

Jarrett is anything BUT a draw. He's a wasted space in the main event that is only there because he has the pencil. TNA's PPV shows don't break even, and haven't since first quarter 2003. TNA's live audiences are comped, meaning they are given free tickets. Jarrett's reactions when he enters the ring is near-silence. The only heat he gets is by feuding with somebody the fans care about.

 

Basically, what it all comes down to is the fact that Jarrett is not a draw because TNA had to pay for their FSN timeslot instead of being offered it and have to give free tickets to fans so they come to the show. If Jarrett were a draw? I doubt either of these would need to happen. Now shut up and learn just what the hell a "draw" is in this business.

I hope you didn't burnt too many braincells writing your little essay. Raven had his contract expired that week. Thank god members of this forum are not booking TNA otherwise it wouldn't have lasted 6 months.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Hey Jaques,

 

Why don't you try being polite. No one is attacking you, some of us just disagree with your views.

 

So, it seems that you are saying everything in TNA is great, and that if they keep on the same path, they'll be doing huge business in no time. Is this what you think?

[Jacques 0]

Hey Jaques,

 

Why don't you try being polite. No one is attacking you, some of us just disagree with your views.

 

So, it seems that you are saying everything in TNA is great, and that if they keep on the same path, they'll be doing huge business in no time. Is this what you think?

Yes, I am saying that most of the things on TNA are great. I can't however say that they will do huge business in the future as mostly only online fans know about TNA. Although if they get a primetime slot on Fox then they can do good business getting about 1.5-2 rating.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

A) Why don't more people know? In the last five years, about 5 million wrestling fans have decided to change the channel. It seems like if there was a product out there they wanted to watch, easily accessible on cable and PPV, they would find it.

 

B) Do you honestly think a prime-time slot is an option right now? Even if the PPV's draw 20,000 like you say, that's horrible for prime time. Impact has now turned into the jobber olympics.

 

Listen, I'm a TNA fan. Most of us here are. I would love nothing more than to see them succeed in the long run. But, in hte direction they are headed, its just not gonna happen.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

I hope you didn't burnt too many braincells writing your little essay. Raven had his contract expired that week. Thank god members of this forum are not booking TNA otherwise it wouldn't have lasted 6 months.

No, Laz burns his brain cells with alcohol and nicotine.

 

As for Raven not having a contract, a verbal agreement could be made that he would stay with them. No one could see Raven leaving. No one. It was obvious that he would be there long term, and they wasted a great opportunity. Raven's never been the kind of worker to walk out while holding a title. Jarrett should have known this, and should have already re-negotiated a new deal with Raven.

 

And just when I thought your arguments can't get any more dumber, you come with this. Truth just main-evented and won against Jarrett a couple of weeks ago, AMW main evented last week and AJ is going to main event next week. Instead of every main players in one division, TNA has distributed them to solidify the whole card.

 

There's a difference between being in the Main Event of the night and having a Main Event spot.

[Guest Coffey]

Whatever happened to flamebaiting being bannable? Seriously.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

I just realized that Jacques sigged me without giving me credit. More than likely, he misunderstood what I was saying, too.

[Jacques 0]

A) Why don't more people know? In the last five years, about 5 million wrestling fans have decided to change the channel. It seems like if there was a product out there they wanted to watch, easily accessible on cable and PPV, they would find it.

How many times have you read "I am not going to pay to see wrestling, however if it is on free TV I'll watch" on a wrestling forum? Lets face it, wrestling fans aren't the richest bunch of people. They are not going to shill 10 bucks to watch wrestling.

 

B) Do you honestly think a prime-time slot is an option right now? Even if the PPV's draw 20,000 like you say, that's horrible for prime time. Impact has now turned into the jobber olympics.

It is perfectly acceptable for the exposure they have. WWE shilled their Vengeance PPV on primetime on Spike and UPN. Yet the got 150,000(I think) buys. For the kind of publicity TNA gets, I think 20,000 is a good number. And if they land a primetime deal obviously more people are going to watch the product and will buy the PPVs.

 

Listen, I'm a TNA fan. Most of us here are. I would love nothing more than to see them succeed in the long run. But, in hte direction they are headed, its just not gonna happen.

Can you explain the kind of direction you want TNA to take? AJ as champion? Sorry, but as good as Sabin is, he can't carry X-division which is their main selling point. Harris as champion? XXX are definitely better as heels and the only face team left will be 3 Live Kru. I bet you don't want to see Kannan or BG as champions. Raven? Well he is busy with this excellent feud with Sabu and after this they may just give Raven another title shot.

[Jacques 0]

As for Raven not having a contract, a verbal agreement could be made that he would stay with them.

Just like the verbal agreement between Bret Hart and Vince? You do realize what can happen if you give the title to a non-contracted guy right? Some of the examples that come to mind are Ric Flair, Alundra Blayze(Or whatever the hell her name was), Shane Douglus. Lets face it, Raven wasn't getting the same kind of pops that he received that night and that was probably going to be his last appearance but after TNA saw how over he was, they rehired him and pushed him as a face.

[Jacques 0]

As for Raven not having a contract, a verbal agreement could be made that he would stay with them.

Just like the verbal agreement between Bret Hart and Vince? You do realize what can happen if you give the title to a non-contracted guy right? Some of the examples that come to mind are Ric Flair, Alundra Blayze(Or whatever the hell her name was), Shane Douglus. Lets face it, Raven wasn't getting the same kind of pops that he received that night and that was probably going to be his last appearance but after TNA saw how over he was, they rehired him and pushed him as a face.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Can you explain the kind of direction you want TNA to take? AJ as champion? Sorry, but as good as Sabin is, he can't carry X-division which is their main selling point. Harris as champion? XXX are definitely better as heels and the only face team left will be 3 Live Kru. I bet you don't want to see Kannan or BG as champions. Raven? Well he is busy with this excellent feud with Sabu and after this they may just give Raven another title shot.

 

They need to build someone, because you are right, JJ has made them all look bad so far.

 

I was Happy with AJ or Truth, but JJ put them both in their place. Raven would have been fine earlier, before the JJ match. Harris has no business in the ME. So I'll go with a slow build for Siaki.