TSM Game Chatter Thread

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I think tonight's game between the Indians and the White Sox prove why neither team would last long if they somehow snuck into the playoffs. Absolutely terrible pitching, especially the bullpens.

 

Indians jumped up 8-0 by the sixth, only to have the Sox put up a seven spot in the inning and make it a one-run game. It was 9-8 Indians going into the ninth inning, but more bad pitching has ensured that the Indians get to add on several insurance runs.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Both Kruk and Reynolds make decent points about Martinez, but miss the mark on their arguments. Its a shame the anti-Moneyball bias prevents them from bringing up OBP, which was Martinez's greatest strength.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

On other news, Jeff Francis is out of the Canadian Olympic Team. Perhaps a call-up to the Rockies is coming soon.

[the max 0]

Both Kruk and Reynolds make decent points about Martinez, but miss the mark on their arguments. Its a shame the anti-Moneyball bias prevents them from bringing up OBP, which was Martinez's greatest strength.

Especially since Kruk's argument was basically that until one player comes around and completely changes the way the position is looked at, players will be compared to other position players. Forget that Edgar may be the best known DH outside of Frank Thomas, and his numbers are their own basis, but how does that one player come and set the bar if Kruk's argument stands up?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Kruk stated DH's should be compared to hitters at other hitting positions, such as 1B and corner outfielders. I buy that. I don't buy his conclusion, but I buy his premise.

[the max 0]

But he's basically saying that until a player comes along that DHes for most of, if not all of his career and sets the bar for DHes to hit, they'll be compared to corner outfielders and first basemen. Well, one has come along now, in Edgar Martinez. They can't ignore what he's done, he's set the bar, IMO. So why should he be compared to other guys whose job it is to hit and play in the field when Edgar hasn't been able to field because of his health? That's certainly not fair.

 

And then Reynolds throws out the idea of putting Omar Vizquel in the HOF which nearly made me choke on my iced tea.

[Bored 0]

I didn't hang around to watch the Edgar segment as my head was spinning from the previous segment that my post referred to. Anyways the biggest argument for me against Edgar is his career totals (not referring to his OBP and OPS which are excellent) don't scream future HOF. He never played more than 155 games in a season and just four times played in 150+ games. I personally am anti-DH so I'm biased but he missed too much time for a guy who didn't play the field for 70% of his career to be Hall of Famer.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

But he's basically saying that until a player comes along that DHes for most of, if not all of his career and sets the bar for DHes to hit, they'll be compared to corner outfielders and first basemen. Well, one has come along now, in Edgar Martinez. They can't ignore what he's done, he's set the bar, IMO. So why should he be compared to other guys whose job it is to hit and play in the field when Edgar hasn't been able to field because of his health? That's certainly not fair.

 

I interpret it to mean Edgar should be compared to 1B and corner outfielders solely on the basis of their offense. If we want to debate Edgar for the Hall, those are the hitting stats which are the standard.

 

And then Reynolds throws out the idea of putting Omar Vizquel in the HOF which nearly made me choke on my iced tea.

 

Agreed. Indians fans like to compare Vizquel to Ozzie Smith, claiming Vizquel's an equal with the glove, and a better hitter. When you adjust for era and park, Ozzie was BETTER at the plate, and his fielding was superior to any player in the history of the game.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Some more Edgar discussion. I took every first baseman in the Hall and plugged their numbers into a spreadsheet. I computed averages and compared them to Edgar. The average 1B had a 142 OPS+. Edgar's was 151. The average 1B created 1557 runs. Edgar created 1567. Total Baseball's Total Player Rating credits Edgar as 45.4 wins above average. The average is 32.5.

 

Don't like advanced metrics? Edgar's BA, OBP, and SLG are all better than the average 1B HOFer. Edgar outhomers the average HOFer, 297 to 286. Edgar appeared in 7 All-Star games. The average HOFer appeared in seven.

 

I think Edgar Martinez deserves the Hall.

[geniusMoment 0]

By baseball's standards Edgar deserves to be in, by my standards no way. I think they have made the hall way too easy to get into. I only want the best players of that generation in, I would never have classified Edgar as one of the top players in the league during his era. I would have put Griffey, Thomas, Belle (not saying he should be in), Clemens, Sosa, Bonds etc.... as the elite during this era. In my opinion, the elite and only the elite should be in the hall, no sob stories or bleeding hearts will change my mind.

[Vern Gagne 0]

The Twins need Grant Balfour back soon. Jesse Crain can throw, but he doesn't look ready to pitch at the big league level yet.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

By baseball's standards Edgar deserves to be in, by my standards no way. I think they have made the hall way too easy to get into. I only want the best players of that generation in, I would never have classified Edgar as one of the top players in the league during his era. I would have put Griffey, Thomas, Belle (not saying he should be in), Clemens, Sosa, Bonds etc.... as the elite during this era. In my opinion, the elite and only the elite should be in the hall, no sob stories or bleeding hearts will change my mind.

Most, if not all Halls of Fame contain more than simply the very elite players. In baseball, the standard disappeared very quickly in 1946 when Johnny Evers and Joe Tinker made the Hall. From then on, choosing just the elite was impossible. In any case, a strict admission criterion is undesireable, because the HOF needs inductions in order to maintain interest, and only having an induction every three years or so for an elite player would harm business.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Mike Sweeney on the Royals:

 

“We've definitely hit rock bottom,” Sweeney said. “This is a joke. It's Aug. 9, and we've got 39 wins. It's terrible. We're playing horrible baseball.

 

“We're not pitching, hitting or playing defense. Nothing. We're not running the bases right. We're playing brutal baseball in all aspects of the game.”

 

“I know we've got some young guys here who are inexperienced,” Sweeney said, “but 39 wins in the middle of August is unacceptable. All aspects of our game are horrible right now.

 

“It has nothing to do with the manager or the coaches. It has everything to do with us. We're not getting the job done; get us out of here.”

 

Last night, they blew another game. This one was preventable too. Cerda didn't start off well and Sullivan then threw a wild pitch, then Vlad hit one to 2B, Gotay (2B) threw home, the ball got away from Buck to score a run and another run scored since NOBODY FUCKING COVERED HOME PLATE

 

It is on Pena. Spring Training for these guys was a joke. They had freaking Garth Brooks in camp. It wasn't serious. Then they started poorly and they have deterioated. Nobody really knows the fundamentals and there's various mental errors.

 

Bleh.. the Royals play the White Sox tonight

[the max 0]

My respect for Mike Sweeney just went up.

 

Instead of blaming the coaches and everyone else, he laid blame on the players themselves for not getting the job done. While they did overachieve last year, there's no reason for them to only have 39 wins. He stepped up and said what needed to be said and I respect him for it.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Yeah, Sweeney is dead on.

 

It is on Pena. Spring Training for these guys was a joke. They had freaking Garth Brooks in camp. It wasn't serious. Then they started poorly and they have deterioated. Nobody really knows the fundamentals and there's various mental errors.

 

Honestly, I still don't think Pena is the guy that you pin this on, despite the increased "festivities" at Spring Training. Simply put, these guys did it with mirrors last year and nobody realized that the expectations were too high until it was far, far too late.

 

They inexplicably forgot to resign Jose Lima (current salary with the Dodgers: less than $1 Million). Runelvys, Snyder, and Asencio were all toast this year to arm problems. Macdougal started playing poker with Rick Ankiel. Affeldt, who was pinned as a potential 20-game winner by a lot of analyst-types, was a complete bust as a starter and found those pesky blisters again mere moments after the team discovered that he could potentially be a top ten closer. Kevin Appier, whose emotional win over the Yankees last year was probably the greatest Royals moment of the last five years, watched his arm fall off in two games and retired. Big Free Agent Signing #1 Juan Gonzalez hit 5 HR in a Royals uniform before giving way to injury. Other over-achievers like Aaron Guiel, Desi Relaford, Darrell May, Brian Anderson and ROTY Angel Berroa were found in a mile-wide crater when they crashed back to earth. Big Free Agent Signing #2 Benito Santiago was shelved for the rest of the year about a third through the season. Bullpen stalwart Curtis Leskanic took a huge dive in efficiency, got traded, and essentially spurred a negative reaction in the clubhouse, which included Jason Grimsley (the other good arm in the pen) destroying equipment in the locker room upon hearing about the trade...which prompted him to be traded (admittedly, in a steal of a deal to Baltimore).

 

And that Juan Gonzalez thing didn't really work either, did it?

 

If I were playing baseball for the Royals this year, I'd probably want to forget how to play baseball too.

[strummer 0]

It keeps getting better for the Mets. Tom Glavine was in a car accident in a cab on the way to Shea Stadium. The injuries are "not life threatening" He will definitely miss his start this week and may be out for awhile

[Gert T 0]

Hope Glavine is OK, and I hope the EMS provided Glavine more support than the Mets.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

This homeplate ump for the Cubs game is awful. Prior doesn't have his best stuff, but he's totally been fooling the ump with his curveball, including one that should've been called strike three but was called ball four instead.

[strummer 0]

Glavine got his 2 front teeth knocked out in the accident. Ouch!

[Bruiser Chong 0]

RE: The ump's strike zone

 

It doesn't help that Mark Prior has been absolute garbage tonight. He had five walks through three, a hit batter, 10 hits, four earned already on the board and left with the bases loaded and nobody out in the fourth. Most annoying; he had 83 pitches through THREE innings. I get the feeling that Dusty may have fucked Prior over last season. He'll look great one start and awful the next.

 

And the Cubs just gave up another run with a mental mistake. SURPRISE!

 

When's basketball season start?

[sfaJack 0]

I was in the other room, but I could have sworn I heard the Astros' TV announcers say that the Cardinals' Chris Carpenter left the game in the 3rd inning with back pain. Anyone heard anything about this?

 

And in regards to Mark Prior: oh, Jesus. What the fuck? I would have never thought he'd have an ERA over 5.00 this late in any season, but there it is.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Glavine got his 2 front teeth knocked out in the accident. Ouch!

Next thing you know he'll fall off of Shea Stadium as Gary Thorne yells "Will somebody stop the damn game!"

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I was in the other room, but I could have sworn I heard the Astros' TV announcers say that the Cardinals' Chris Carpenter left the game in the 3rd inning with back pain. Anyone heard anything about this?

This is true. He left in the third with lower back pains. This is the stretch in the season where the Cards stellar pitching can hold it all together.

 

And in regards to Mark Prior:  oh, Jesus.  What the fuck?  I would have never thought he'd have an ERA over 5.00 this late in any season, but there it is.

 

Man, no kidding. He's just not the guy he was last season and I've gotta wonder if something's still wrong with him or what. Dusty may have ruined him.

 

The Cubs are creeping back into the game slowly, but they're running out of time. They were down 8-2 and now are down 8-3. They had a golden chance to put quite a few runs on the board, but Alou popped up with two on and no out, clearly trying to hit it out. Lee lined out on a hard-hit ball and they ended up having to settle for just one run. They're gonna have to do something in the 7th, since it's more or less lights out from that point on.

[Fuzzy Dunlop 0]

Well, I figure if my Cubs are going to lose games, that's the way to do it. What an ending!

[Bored 0]

So was this what the media was talking about in regards to Lo Duca's "heart and soul"?

 

Dodgers win again. Marlins lose again. When does the public apology from those idiot baseball writers to Paul DePodesta come already?

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I was watching the end of that game and I think LoDuca had a case. Much like the Cubs/Padres game, the homeplate ump in this game had a very tight and at times, inconsistent strikezone.

 

This is a shining example of why the Marlins aren't going anywhere. They gave up two hits tonight and lost. Good pitching's one thing, but this team really has no offense.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Orioles have win #8 in a row in the bag, 11-3 in the bottom of the 8th.

 

Tejada with 5 RBI to up his major league leading total to 106.

 

Odd statistic of the night:

 

11 Runs 19 Hits and 15 LOB for the Os. The Orioles could have scored 20 runs easily if they got some timely hitting with RISP.

[Cuban Linx 0]

If only Ryan Drese could pitch every game for the Rangers. With Nick Regilio and Scott Erickson due to start the next two games Texas are really going to have to lay on the run support to have a chance in the remaining Yankee games.

[geniusMoment 0]

Adam Dunn hit the longest home run of my lifetime today. He destroyed a ball sending it out of the reds stadium and into the Ohio River. That sounds impressive, whats more impressive is he did it to straight away center field, over the giant black batters eye. To clear the batters eye you must hit it 510 feet and high, to clear the walking area with restaurants behind the batters eye you must hit the ball 560 feet so the initial estimates of 535 were wrong. They did a study on the news were they had a college professor estimate the shot at 593 feet.

[The Man in Blak 0]

So was this what the media was talking about in regards to Lo Duca's "heart and soul"?

 

Dodgers win again. Marlins lose again. When does the public apology from those idiot baseball writers to Paul DePodesta come already?

Say what you want about the Marlins' record, but Lo Duca himself has been doing pretty well in a Marlins uniform. It's the rest of the team that's been having trouble getting dialed in.