Kyle Farnsworth is more of a liability than Sosa.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The Giants usually have Rob Nen though, don't they?

 

Hasn't pitched for nearly two years, and its doubtful he'll ever return.

 

The Phillies are hopeless and out of it, so no one cares about Hernandez.

 

They're out of it BECAUSE they pitched scrubs like Hernandez.

 

The Cubs however might actually DO SOMETHING if not for dipshits like Farnsworth. They can overcome the bad fielding and base running, but it's hard to overcome a guy who can't hold a 4 run lead.

 

Cubs fans are making too much of Farnsworth. He's pitching extremely badly this month. He also pitched well last month, except for the Cards game. He's not a future relief ace, but he's far from one of the worst relievers in the game.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Cubs fans are making too much of Farnsworth. He's pitching extremely badly this month. He also pitched well last month, except for the Cards game. He's not a future relief ace, but he's far from one of the worst relievers in the game.

No, Al, you're wrong! Like somebody just said, sure, there are relievers that may statistically look worse, but they don't MATTER. Rocky Biddle is one of the bottom 10. Big deal! He pitches for the Expos! The Expos were picked to do something between jack and shit this summer. Numbers-wise, the numbers just don't properly gauge Farnsworth's suck. 3.86 ERA? You can't go just by the stats, you've gotta just look at the key situations that we entrust Farnsworth with, and watch the batsmen get hit and the runs come in. He's not the worst in the league if you're a stat boy, but if you watch the high-profile situations, Farnsworth is the worst.

 

He needs to be fired. Fired to send a message to the rest of the Chicago bullpen: when you come in the game, you're going to have to function under pressure. If you can't deal with the pressure, you don't belong here.

[2GOLD 0]

I'll say it before and I'll say it again

 

Fransworth is NOT a set up man. He's not! That is when his trouble ALWAYS kicks in. He cannot pitch in a set-up role, he is a situational pitcher. The Cubs have no set-up man because the set-up man is closing the games. Fransworth is a 7th inning pitcher, any later he is screwed.

 

I don't know what the heck they can do. They did nothing to fix the bullpen.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

On paper, it would seem they at least tried to improve the pen. Bringing in Hawkins was a god-send, as he's been the only one to be reliable on a regular basis. The dumped Guthrie, Veres and Alfonseca; so they at least tried to get rid of a lot of the weak links of the 2003 Cubs. However, they made their mistake by keeping Farns, thinking Borowski was actually going to be a reliable closer for another season and by only making marginal upgrades in the pen.

 

Don't get me wrong; I think the 2004 Cubs bullpen is stronger than last year's, but not by a whole lot. Rusch is having a career season, Hawkins has been solid and Leichester has usually been on. One guy (Farnsworth) shouldn't make all of the difference, but he makes a big one. He's used in prominant game situations, so his mistakes are amplified that much more.

 

Of the current bullpen, I think Hawkins is the only sure thing and the only guy I think they should definitely re-sign next season. Rusch has been great, but I'm just waiting for him to crash back down to Earth. Remlinger has started to come along, but he's aging, so it's not wise to put too much stock into him. I honestly think they need to discard Borowski and Farnsworth and put Wellemeyer and Hawkins in the 8th and 9th inning slots.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I don't think I trust Borowski any more than I do Hawkins.

 

I have faith in Glendon Rusch, he's a great spot-starter and long relief man, and if he needs to, he can make decent contact as a hitter. Jon Leicester has done some good stuff so far, and I think he's a keeper for middle relief. The other two lefties, Remlinger and Mercker, are getting older and spottier, and it's hard to invest much in either. But I feel more comfortable with Remlinger.

 

Here's something radical: Ryan Dempster to close. Everyone's been talking about his remarkable recovery from Tommy John surgery and how he's going to be great out of the bullpen. With Farnsworth a joke and Hawkins unreliable, why not try Dempster in the 8th and 9th innings? When he came back, the interviewers asked if he would close, and he brushed it off saying the job is taken. Instead of using him as a spot starter or long relief as the plan was before, just have him throw his best stuff out there for one inning and see how that works. Can't be any worse.

 

So if it was my choice, my pitching staff would be

 

SP Wood

SP Maddux

SP Prior

SP Zambrano

SP Clement

LR Rusch

MR Leicester

MR Remlinger

MR Mercker

SU Hawkins

CP Dempster

 

No Farnsworth. And just 11 pitchers, because for the postseason, I'm agreeing with whoever said we need to pick up a Randall Simon or equivalent player to come off the bench, because a bench of Other Catcher, Goodwin, Other 2B, Macias, Martinez, is no great shakes. We need Hollandsworth back or else a better bench player.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Cubs fans are making too much of Farnsworth.  He's pitching extremely badly this month.  He also pitched well last month, except for the Cards game.  He's not a future relief ace, but he's far from one of the worst relievers in the game.

No, Al, you're wrong! Like somebody just said, sure, there are relievers that may statistically look worse, but they don't MATTER. Rocky Biddle is one of the bottom 10. Big deal! He pitches for the Expos! The Expos were picked to do something between jack and shit this summer. Numbers-wise, the numbers just don't properly gauge Farnsworth's suck. 3.86 ERA? You can't go just by the stats, you've gotta just look at the key situations that we entrust Farnsworth with, and watch the batsmen get hit and the runs come in. He's not the worst in the league if you're a stat boy, but if you watch the high-profile situations, Farnsworth is the worst.

 

He needs to be fired. Fired to send a message to the rest of the Chicago bullpen: when you come in the game, you're going to have to function under pressure. If you can't deal with the pressure, you don't belong here.

Kyle Farnsworth had a stretch this year where he went scoreless in fourteen out of fifteen appearances. Smart fans know that future performance cannot be predicted from a player's last handful of games. Is Kyle Farnsworth the closer of the future? Of course not. But he still is capable of being a useful reliever. He'll snap out of this slump eventually.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Kyle Farnsworth had a stretch this year where he went scoreless in fourteen out of fifteen appearances. Smart fans know that future performance cannot be predicted from a player's last handful of games.

Damn the statistics, bottom line is that he buckles under pressure. He gave up a 4-run lead before he could get a man out.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

These #'s as of 8/12 and are a credit to Hardballtimes.com

 

FIP: Fielding Independent Pitching. Essentially an approximation of what the pitcher's ERA would be with an "average" defense behind him. The formula is (13xHR + 3xBB - 2xK)/IP plus a league-specific factor (around 3.20). It works like DIPS ERA, if you're familiar with that, but it's a lot easier to compute and explain.

 

DER: Defense Efficiency Ratio. DER is the proportion of batted balls (non-HR) that the pitcher's fielders successfully converted into outs.

 

IF/Fly: The proportion of fly balls that are hit in the infield. Analysis indicates that pitchers do have some control over this type of batted ball.

 

Hawkins = 2.67 ERA, 3.92 FIP, .749 DER

Kent Mercker = 2.23 ERA, 3.43 FIP, .723 DER

Glendon Rusch = 3.80 ERA, 3.76 FIP, .722 DER

Kyle Farnsworth = 3.69 ERA, 4.27 FIP, .691 DER

Mike Remlinger = 2.89 ERA, 3.79 FIP, .725 DER

 

As bad as Farnsworth has been, one could argue that the defense behind him has been a lot worse then for any of the other relievers by a considerable margin. Farnsworth also has the best K/9 on the team at 10.7 although his 4.9 BB/9 and 1.3 HR/9(Maddux has a worse 1.5) hurt him a ton too. He has a .130 Infield/Fly ratio too which is fairly high.

[LooseCannon25 0]

As for the 10 worst relievers list:

 

No list is complete without Mike Stanton. It seems like every single game the guy comes into with a lead, or tied, he blows the lead. I remember 3 friggin instances this season where he comes in with a 2 or 3 run lead with the bases loaded, and gives up a grand slam. He's been disgusting, and I can't wait for him to go away. Of course with the great manager we have in Art Howe, he just keeps throwing the guy out there to blow leads. Same can be said for Over the hill Franco.

 

If it wasnt for those two guys the MEts could easily be at least 5 games over .500 right now. At least they got of Weathers, who has been another disaster in the pen.

 

 

 

As for Farnsworth, I was looking at his career stats and this one amazed me.

 

W - 22

L - 36

ERA --- 4.70

Saves - 4

Blown Saves - 19

 

Holy shit!!!!!!!!!! 4 Saves and 19 Blown....That's horrific

[The Man in Blak 0]

As much as I'd love to endorse the idea of throwing Ryan Dempster into the fire with his 7.26 K/9 strikeout rate, I think the particularly ugly 1.56 WHIP and utter lack of any ability to pitch since 2001 would probably cost the Cubs at least ten games in the next month.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

As for Farnsworth, I was looking at his career stats and this one amazed me.

 

W - 22

L - 36

ERA --- 4.70

Saves - 4

Blown Saves - 19

 

Holy shit!!!!!!!!!! 4 Saves and 19 Blown....That's horrific

 

That's a junk stat. Remember the rules of a save opportunity. Up three or less, with three innings or less to go. So if a middle reliever comes in with the lead in the seventh, that's technically considered a save opportunity. So when a middle reliever blows a lead, they're charged with a blown save. However, since they are not the closer, they rarely finish the game and actually earn the save. So their statistics are sharply skewed towards one side.

 

Look up almost any career middle reliever, and you will notice this pattern. Ray King has 1 save and seven blown. Alan Embree has seven saves and 18 blown. Paul Quantrill has 20 saves and 43 blown. B.J. Ryan has 4 saves and 12 blown. Rheal Cormier has 2 saves and 22 blown.

 

This isn't meant to defend Farnsworth. Just to caution about using saves and blown saves. Recognize the context.

[LooseCannon25 0]

As for Farnsworth, I was looking at his career stats and this one amazed me.

 

W - 22

L - 36

ERA --- 4.70

Saves - 4

Blown Saves - 19

 

Holy shit!!!!!!!!!! 4 Saves and 19 Blown....That's horrific

 

That's a junk stat. Remember the rules of a save opportunity. Up three or less, with three innings or less to go. So if a middle reliever comes in with the lead in the seventh, that's technically considered a save opportunity. So when a middle reliever blows a lead, they're charged with a blown save. However, since they are not the closer, they rarely finish the game and actually earn the save. So their statistics are sharply skewed towards one side.

 

Look up almost any career middle reliever, and you will notice this pattern. Ray King has 1 save and seven blown. Alan Embree has seven saves and 18 blown. Paul Quantrill has 20 saves and 43 blown. B.J. Ryan has 4 saves and 12 blown. Rheal Cormier has 2 saves and 22 blown.

 

This isn't meant to defend Farnsworth. Just to caution about using saves and blown saves. Recognize the context.

Ok, i'll give you that one .

 

 

What about being 14 games under .500 for his career with an era of 4.70

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The ERA hurts yes, but the W/L record means little. Bruce Sutter, Jeff Montgomery, Jeff Reardon, Tom Henke, and many other accomplished closers had sub-.500 records.

[LooseCannon25 0]

The ERA hurts yes, but the W/L record means little. Bruce Sutter, Jeff Montgomery, Jeff Reardon, Tom Henke, and many other accomplished closers had sub-.500 records.

True, but to be 14 games under .500 with an ERA like that leaves something to be said. Those closers had sub .500 records, but they were closers. There's a difference, when they blow a save they will most likely take the loss. That is why their losses pile up. It's worse for a middle reliever to be that far sub .500.

 

The point is this, the guy has been a letdown for the most part of his career.

[A Happy Medium 0]

As for Farnsworth, I was looking at his career stats and this one amazed me.

 

W - 22

L - 36

ERA --- 4.70

Saves - 4

Blown Saves - 19

 

Holy shit!!!!!!!!!! 4 Saves and 19 Blown....That's horrific

 

That's a junk stat. Remember the rules of a save opportunity. Up three or less, with three innings or less to go. So if a middle reliever comes in with the lead in the seventh, that's technically considered a save opportunity. So when a middle reliever blows a lead, they're charged with a blown save. However, since they are not the closer, they rarely finish the game and actually earn the save. So their statistics are sharply skewed towards one side.

 

Look up almost any career middle reliever, and you will notice this pattern. Ray King has 1 save and seven blown. Alan Embree has seven saves and 18 blown. Paul Quantrill has 20 saves and 43 blown. B.J. Ryan has 4 saves and 12 blown. Rheal Cormier has 2 saves and 22 blown.

 

This isn't meant to defend Farnsworth. Just to caution about using saves and blown saves. Recognize the context.

I'm a Cubs fan...Farnsworth never pitches more then an inning or two at a time. They have never even for a second thought of Farnsworth closing out a game in three innings all off those times. The man usually pitches between 1/3 and 1 1/3 each time he steps out there. So he's not going to pitch for three innings, but manages to fuck up the sliver of time he's there. He doesn't deserve this type of shelter...his 98 mile per hour heater just isn't worth it.

 

Pretty much, he comes in as a set up man in the 8th inning with a two run lead, walks the first...wild pitch...blooper gets placed perfectly over the 3B's head...run scores...then a strikeout...another walk...then a rope for a single.

 

This is Kyle Farnsworth's blown save.

 

However, there was a brief stretch in, I believe 1999 where they tried him out as a closer and he just gae everyone headaches. He hasn't been able to work under pressure in five years since he was called up.

 

 

BTW, if by some act of God the Cubs are in Game 7 of the NLCS and in a Farnsworth situation, if I see his lanky ass warming up in the Bartman seats...I'm leaving the house and taking a drive....and smoking a pack of cigarettes out of tension.

[cabbageboy 0]

Oh this is hilarious. I've actually thought about that same scenario, Cubs/Cards in the NLCS. Game 7. And Farnsworth is warming up to face a lineup of Pujols, Walker, Edmonds, Rolen. I think I would practically vomit.

 

Maybe Farnsworth went 14 appearances without giving up a run...so what? Who did he do all that against? Was it the Cardinals? The Dodgers? The Braves? Or did he hold down the Pirates and the Brewers? Face it, the guy is horrible. Why defend him?

[The Czech Republic 0]

Pretty much, he comes in as a set up man in the 8th inning with a two run lead, walks the first...wild pitch...blooper gets placed perfectly over the 3B's head...run scores...then a strikeout...another walk...then a rope for a single.

 

This is Kyle Farnsworth's blown save.

What about the batter(s) getting hit by the pitch(es) to load the bases?

 

No Farnsworth appearance is complete without it.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I'd be more concerened about Mark Prior. He's not going deep in games. Sunday, he only went 6.1 innings. He throws too many pitches and has to leave after 6 because he's well over 100 pitches. He also looks off. His control is suspect. I still think his elbow is worse than the Cubs are saying.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Oh this is hilarious.  I've actually thought about that same scenario, Cubs/Cards in the NLCS.  Game 7.  And Farnsworth is warming up to face a lineup of Pujols, Walker, Edmonds, Rolen.  I think I would practically vomit.

 

Maybe Farnsworth went 14 appearances without giving up a run...so what?  Who did he do all that against?  Was it the Cardinals?  The Dodgers?  The Braves?  Or did he hold down the Pirates and the Brewers?  Face it, the guy is horrible.  Why defend him?

From June 27th to July 17th he didn't allow a run in 10 games.

 

His opponents...

White Sox: 2 games, Astros: 3 games, Cardinals: 2 games, Brewers: 3 games.

 

All of his games vs St. Louis this year he's allowed 5 runs in 11 games.

 

April: Gives up 6 runs in 12 games with 10 HA and 3 BB vs 8 K

May: Gives up 3 runs in 14 games with 9 HA and 10 BB vs 16 K

June: Gives up 8 runs in 16 games with 11 HA and 5 BB vs 19 K

July: Gives up 3 runs in 12 games with 12 HA and 8 BB vs 19 K

August: Given up 10 runs in 7 games with 11 HA and 4 BB vs 2 K

 

Clearly he's having an awful August with 11 HA in only 7 games.

 

He did manage to work his ERA from a 3.93 on June 25th to 3.16 on August 1st.

[The Man in Blak 0]

I'm putting my money on Corey Patterson in the "Subject of the Next Angst-Ridden Cub Thread" Pool.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Patterson's actually hitting 364/435/655 this month. I think the next angst-ridden threads will be about Moises Alou (204/246/352), Matt Clement (5.40 ERA with 9 BB in 10 IP), and LaTroy Hawkins (1.29 ERA, but he's not a CLOSER~!)

[The Man in Blak 0]

Patterson's actually hitting 364/435/655 this month.

I know - the sheer absurdity is what makes it so funny.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I'm still not crazy about Patterson, but I give him credit for having more plate discipline over the past few weeks since moving into the leadoff spot.

 

I've only got beef with Sosa, Farns, Baker and to a lesser extent, Alou.

[2GOLD 0]

I think the next thread should be about the Cubs bat boy. Obviously he isn't giving Sammy and Alou the bats they need to actually make contact with a baseball.

 

This is all his fault. That little 15 yr old slacker.

 

Yes, I'm a Cubs fan and no, I'm not serious.

 

Yes I am.

[The Man in Blak 0]

I think the next thread should be about the Cubs bat boy. Obviously he isn't giving Sammy and Alou the bats they need to actually make contact with a baseball.

Well, considering last year's SammyGate incident, it's not for lack of trying.

[The Czech Republic 0]

If we suffer a humiliating loss to the Brewers, I'll pin the blame on someone and have a third Cub I'm Mad At thread...deal?

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, the Cubs haven't exactly owned the Brewers this year. It seems like they've done their fair share of jobbing to the dregs of the league (Brewers, Pirates, etc).

 

Back to Farnsworth. I think my image of him as a total bum stems from the idea of a middle reliever/set up man. See, nobody notices a relief pitcher when he goes out and gets a 1-2-3 inning (unless you're the closer, but you get the save then). I can't remember the times where Farns went out and retired the side....I remember the massive fuckups.

 

Such is life when you're a relief pitcher.