I hate Toronto

[Guest Staravenger]

Not to look like a quitter, but what does all this arguing prove? That americans can bash Canadians and vice versa?

 

I for one am pretty much over tonight, but the fact it's a hot topic makes it hard to ignore.

[Guest TigerDriver91]

Edge's reactions then. In the beginning, he wasn't exactly getting face pops, but he wasn't booed either. As the match went on, more people started to boo instead of just small groups, and by the end of the match, almost everyone was booing him.

 

Thats a reaction to a wrestler where everyone decided to follow the original group and become sheep.

How about focusing on discussing the match instead of ignoring it in favour of getting your panties in a twist over the crowd? Or is the crowd more important to you than the actual match and the wrestlers involved?

 

To be honest, when I am at a live show, I tend to be rather quiet for the most part and tonight was no exception. I also feel some of the crowds behaviour was disgusting, but I was more concerned with what was going on in the ring to care.

[The Mandarin 0]

 

You don't wanna piss off Carlton, man.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

The crowd was every bit as bad as any crowd at Hog/Road Wild, but is getting defending more because it's seen as a "smark crowd" instead of a bunch of "redneck bikers".

[Guest Staravenger]

Edge's reactions then. In the beginning, he wasn't exactly getting face pops, but he wasn't booed either. As the match went on, more people started to boo instead of just small groups, and by the end of the match, almost everyone was booing him.

 

Thats a reaction to a wrestler where everyone decided to follow the original group and become sheep.

How about focusing on discussing the match instead of ignoring it in favour of getting your panties in a twist over the crowd? Or is the crowd more important to you than the actual match and the wrestlers involved?

 

To be honest, when I am at a live show, I tend to be rather quiet for the most part and tonight was no exception. I also feel some of the crowds behaviour was disgusting, but I was more concerned with what was going on in the ring to care.

YOU are the one who said Americans were sheep while Canadians aren't. I brought up a fact where Edge was given SHEEP TREATMENT TONIGHT. A group of people boo, and then more and more until everyone does it.

 

If you can't accept the response, don't make a point of it then.

[Downhome 0]

Once again, this isn't complicated.

 

These workers put their wellbeing at risk when we watch them in the ring, especially on nights when people are working very hard such as tonight. To go ape shit and to shit all over them for no reason, is pointless and is disrespecful. It's obviously ok to boo things when you don't like them, that's going to happen, but to have it go on for hours is just being an ass hole. These people didn't care about the matches, some of which were great, that were going on, they just didn't.

 

If they have a problem with the company, buying tickets to go to a show and then buying other WWE items or whatever will do nothing to Vince even if you go there to boo everything. He makes his buck, then moves to another town where the odds that people will go insane like they did tonight are very low. They didn't make a point, they just looked like assholes, and it'll be forgotten soon.

 

Had they hit him in the wallet, it would not have gone forgotten. Imagine if they didn't sell a lot of tickets and the building hardly had anyone in it. Imagine if hardly no WWE items were sold.

 

Imagine if that went on from town to town, Vince would go insane.

 

That is how the fans can change things, now by doing what we saw tonight. All they did was show their asses and piss off a lot of hard workers, regardless of who they were.

 

That's all I'll say on this, because quite frankly it pissed me off a lot and there isn't anymore else I can say about it. That and I don't feel like going around in a circle as we do here so offten. So that's my line, it's how I feel.

[Promoter 0]

I say the wwe might want to worry about Los Angeles and WrestleMania which traditionally is a crowd that doesn't give the best of reactions. It's funny as Vince has brought the event to the city about 4 times or in close proximity to the region. How was that crowd for the last ppv there a couple of months back? It wasn't blackballed from future events as some here are saying that should happen to Toronto. I still say a crowd being this vocal towards matches and hissing or cheering is a better guage to know what to change than having no fans come out to give no reaction at all. The deadly sin in pro wrestling is no response of any kind. When that happens you can't feed off what to do and what not to do.

[Guest TigerDriver91]

Edge's reactions then. In the beginning, he wasn't exactly getting face pops, but he wasn't booed either. As the match went on, more people started to boo instead of just small groups, and by the end of the match, almost everyone was booing him.

 

Thats a reaction to a wrestler where everyone decided to follow the original group and become sheep.

How about focusing on discussing the match instead of ignoring it in favour of getting your panties in a twist over the crowd? Or is the crowd more important to you than the actual match and the wrestlers involved?

 

To be honest, when I am at a live show, I tend to be rather quiet for the most part and tonight was no exception. I also feel some of the crowds behaviour was disgusting, but I was more concerned with what was going on in the ring to care.

YOU are the one who said Americans were sheep while Canadians aren't. I brought up a fact where Edge was given SHEEP TREATMENT TONIGHT. A group of people boo, and then more and more until everyone does it.

 

If you can't accept the response, don't make a point of it then.

Sorry, I should have said that my post was a joke... I did post a darn smiley. Sorry I didn't mean for anyone to take that seriously. Geeeeez.

 

[Guest Staravenger]

Oh, OK, that's my bad. Kinda hard to notice smilies when everyones at each others throat.

[Der Kommissar 0]

That "stop buying stuff" excuse is the same bullshit Vince McMahon spews.

 

I don't know about that. I am sure if the ratings fell shaply to near or below 2.0, or there was barely 500 people in the audience for a major show, then Vince would probably care. At least now, Vince can do the kind of shows he enjoys, I assume, and still make a profit of it. If that's the case, then I don't overly blame him.

 

Of course, if this week's ratings, and the Summerslam were any indication of where the WWE is going, then I am guessing some change may soon be happening.

[Guest TigerDriver91]

Oh, OK, that's my bad. Kinda hard to notice smilies when everyones at each others throat.

That's okay. No harm intended. I was just being silly with that post.

 

I was also quite confused with the crowd and it almost ruined our enjoyment at times

 

It was also weird how they kept fans waiting and waiting outside until they finally decided to open the doors. Fans were having fun with different chants about wrestlers, which was really fun and all... hell, even the security got their fair share of chants, especially where we were inside in the frickin' heat sweating like crazy.

 

When we went to Smackdown recently, the crowd was dead for most of the night except when wrestlers such as Eddie, Kurt, Undertaker and a few others were on.

 

Live crowds here are becoming very very weird, I will admit...

[Guest Olympic Slam]

None of this surprises me. I've been saying this for years: WWE should stop going to Canada for storyline shows. They never go with the program.

 

Would you tape an episode of Cheers in front of a difficult studio audience?

[treble 0]

Once again, this isn't complicated.

 

These workers put their wellbeing at risk when we watch them in the ring, especially on nights when people are working very hard such as tonight. To go ape shit and to shit all over them for no reason, is pointless and is disrespecful. It's obviously ok to boo things when you don't like them, that's going to happen, but to have it go on for hours is just being an ass hole. These people didn't care about the matches, some of which were great, that were going on, they just didn't.

 

If they have a problem with the company, buying tickets to go to a show and then buying other WWE items or whatever will do nothing to Vince even if you go there to boo everything. He makes his buck, then moves to another town where the odds that people will go insane like they did tonight are very low. They didn't make a point, they just looked like assholes, and it'll be forgotten soon.

 

Had they hit him in the wallet, it would not have gone forgotten. Imagine if they didn't sell a lot of tickets and the building hardly had anyone in it. Imagine if hardly no WWE items were sold.

 

Imagine if that went on from town to town, Vince would go insane.

 

That is how the fans can change things, now by doing what we saw tonight. All they did was show their asses and piss off a lot of hard workers, regardless of who they were.

 

That's all I'll say on this, because quite frankly it pissed me off a lot and there isn't anymore else I can say about it. That and I don't feel like going around in a circle as we do here so offten. So that's my line, it's how I feel.

The thing is, you're making it seem as though the whole show was just 3 hours of booing. So, the crowd did the wave during a match they didn't like, so they booed Eugene, the supposed sympathetic babyface. Who cares? They gave nice pops to Orton, HHH, Angle, and Jericho, guys who they supposedly like. Not liking exactly what WWE tells them to like isn't being disrespectful.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

These workers put their wellbeing at risk when we watch them in the ring

Too bad many of them are being booked badly. Do you forget that the REALLY BAD reaction in wrestling is silence? That wasn't happening here, people were cheering for who they wanted to cheer for (which is something the company has long encouraged, even after the Goldberg/Rock fiasco they had a promo the next night where they were repeating that "You can cheer for whoever you want to cheer for" jazz.)

 

And again, it's not like the entire night was a Goldberg/Lesnar affair. People got pops, just not the way it was booked. How do you know that someone in a dead-end feud like the baby angle or a stupid gimmick like Eugene doesn't mind the crowd saying what they already know, that things need change?

 

They didn't make a point, they just looked like assholes, and it'll be forgotten soon.

 

Had they hit him in the wallet, it would not have gone forgotten.

 

Here's my ultimate rebuttal to that: Scott Steiner.

 

Steiner got thrown into the main event immediately and was booed for two and a half months from the moment the bell first rang. He was promptly moved down to Test level and has now been forgotten about completely.

 

You think if the crowd just swallowed the crap they had been given and instead just didn't buy a shirt that night that would have happened? No. They may have panicked and changed shirt designs but they wouldn't know that people don't like seeing Steiner in that spot on the card, or Rock as a grandma-kissing babyface. Or whatever.

 

Imagine if they didn't sell a lot of tickets and the building hardly had anyone in it. Imagine if hardly no WWE items were sold.

 

That's already happening. And instead they just "change directions" again, and we get stuff like the Diva Search. An empty seat doesn't tell anyone who people specifically want to see and who people don't want to see. A guy getting Steiner heat is clearly not what the crowd wants to see. Especially if there's other guys (like Angle) that the crowd does want to go and see.

 

I don't care for f'n Goldberg, but I still went to No Way Out because I wanted to see Eddie and his title win. Just because I shouted "You suck" at Goldberg as he walked down the aisle directly in front of me to his reserved chair doesn't mean I hated the whole show. It means I don't like Goldberg. And that's why I don't own Goldberg tees. But I bet my lack of buying a Goldberg tee means anything to these guys. A building like MSG chasing him out of town does.

[Guest Staravenger]

I honestly don't believe the dont give money up for McMahons crap. Maybe this will happen with the smart fans, but marks who eat up anything with a spoon don't care, otherwise Great American Bash would've gotten a horrible buyrate.

[Promoter 0]

That "stop buying stuff" excuse is the same bullshit Vince McMahon spews.

 

I don't know about that. I am sure if the ratings fell shaply to near or below 2.0, or there was barely 500 people in the audience for a major show, then Vince would probably care.

The ratings are dipping and there have been cancellations for some house shows. There have been house shows that have attracted people in the hundreds(not thousands, HUNDREDS). Maybe having a crowd like tonight will help send another message.

[Guest TigerDriver91]

Too bad many of them are being booked badly. Do you forget that the REALLY BAD reaction in wrestling is silence?

The women of WWE have been doing just that for a long time. I always cheer for them even if their match isn't all that great.

 

I always try to avoid being disrespectful towards any wrestlers. Though I am usually quiet, I always try to cheer for every wrestler... hell, I even cheered JBL a little tonite.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

a. The fans paid their HARD EARNED money to support the WWE. Without THEM, the wrestlers would be nowhere.

 

b. If the show sucked, they have the RIGHT to boo as they fucking please.

 

c. If they don't like a wrestler, they have the CHOICE to voice their opinions. Its not like they all got together in collusion to decide how to put the screws to certain wrestlers. For the most part, I agreed with everything they did. The Eddie and Edge characters need to be tweeked...and Eugene? Fuck...don't even get me started.

[Der Kommissar 0]

Maybe having a crowd like tonight will help send another message.

 

Good point. If apathy set in to the point where no one was watching or going to the shows, then it would probably be "Lights out. Party's over." for the WWE. Sometimes, embarrassment is the way to get things done. It's like the Detroit Tigers. They sucked and people were apathetic towards them for years. Last year, they went out and field one of, if not, the worst team baseball history. This year, they went out and got some free agents in desperate hope that they can save some face with the fanbase by improving their team. Hopefully, after having a lot of their booking shit upon from start to finish by the crowd, WWE will take the message and try to do something about it.

[UZI Suicide 0]

I don't get what was so bad about this show? An exciting opening match, an OK 3-way IC title match, a great Eddie-Angle match, a surprisingly good Taker-JBL match and a great Benoit-Orton match where Benoit puts the new champion over clean.

 

And Eugine-Trips wasn't even THAT bad, I've seen a lot of people here riding the Eugene bandwagon lately and it now seems everyone hates him again since the Toronto crowd booed him.

[Guest TigerDriver91]

I don't get what was so bad about this show? An exciting opening match, an OK 3-way IC title match, a great Eddie-Angle match, a surprisingly good Taker-JBL match and a great Benoit-Orton match where Benoit puts the new champion over clean.

 

And Eugine-Trips wasn't even THAT bad, I've seen a lot of people here riding the Eugene bandwagon lately and it now seems everyone hates him again since the Toronto crowd booed him.

My girlfriend and I had a lot of fun at tonight's show. Most of the matches were good and the Kurt-Eddie one was great.

 

Then again, I am past the point of caring about face/heel or booing/cheering. The only thing that matters to me is the wrestlers safety and the fact that they are entertaining me in the ring.

[St. Gabe 0]

Poor, young, misguided JOTW says:

Then again, I find great enjoyment and humor from watching WWE fail. Your mileage may vary

 

I say:

Are you a wrestling Fan? Just stop Watching, and don't give me the "I have a right to critique the matches..blah blah fucking blah. The statement above says that you don't have that right. You WANT them to fail, so shut your YAPPER.

 

As for the rest of you with the logic: "those "fans" showed the WWE that it's booking isn't working", here's a reality check: The crowd turning on a show like this has NEVER happened in the WWE before, at least not on this level. I'm not talking about cheering for heels or booing faces, I'm talking about the fact that the crowd decided that everything sucked, angles, matches, and workers. This will not be the case tomorrow, or the next day,or next year. Vince doesn't care that the crowd shit on the show, neither does creative, the only ones that the booing will affect are the workers, and the people who bought the PPV. Vince made his money, but I guarantee you there are alot of dejected, jaded wrestlers who will be sour on Toronto for a long, long time thanks to their reaction tonight. "But...But...they bought the tickets, they can do what they want" Yeah, they can, fine, but I certainly hope they don't get a show for some time, and if they do, don't be surprised if we do end up seeing Test Vs. Mark Henry in An Iron man Match. Then they'll have an excuse to shit on a match.

[iggymcfly 0]

Well, I didn't actually see the show tonight, but a lot of the things that happened with the fan reactions make sense to me.

 

Edge and Jericho are basically feuding with each other; Batista was in the background. Since Toronto loves Jericho, he's obviously going to get the pops while Edge gets the boos.

 

As for Eddie and Angle. Eddie's been riding a stale character for a while, and it's kind of losing its mileage. Meanwhile Angle's wrestling his first major match in several months. Of course Angle's going to get pops. He was probably the #1 draw on the card. I know if I was at Summerslam, Angle winning would have made the whole show for me.

 

Then for JBL/Taker, you get the fans saying that they din't buy JBL as a champion, and Undertaker or someone should squash him and end his shitty reign immediately. The wave means that 15 or 20 minutes is too long and boring of a match for the Undertaker to dispatch of a lower midcarder.

 

I personally like the Eugene character, but if other people prefer the old badass HHH that just beat the living fuck out of Regal, that's their prerogative. I mean who didn't mark out a little bit for HHH when he showed Regal half-dead on the floor, or when he walked into the arena with blood on his hands last week?

 

Then throw in "cool heel that's about to win the title" pops for Orton, (see Brock Lesnar two years ago), and you've basically got a pretty rational crowd response to the show.

[claydude14 0]

I just got back from Summerslam, and the crowd was just as bizarre live. I'm from Rochester NY. For the first two matches, I could understand the Dudleys and Kane getting cheered since they are obviously the much bigger stars in the mathces, at least in casual fans eyes. Edge getting booed wasn't random, as he's been playing the tweener. A random fan and I were discussing Edge on the way in and he was telling me he wouldn't be suprised to see Edge turn during the match. I don't know if it came off on TV, but we also chanted "We want Christian." Gurrero Vs. Angle came off pretty bad live, to me at least, as the first 10 minutes just seemed like constant ankle lock for no reason. Seeing as Angle is the internet's darling boy, and Toronto is (or tries to be) a smart crowd, I didn't have a problem with the crowd going back and forth, as I was too. HHH v. Eugune was when I realized after seeing the same groups of peopel starting the heel cheering each time before the whole crowd jumped on the bandwagon (I'm not saying I'm not guilty of some chants either, but those were the Borings and This match sucks during JBL-Taker). It was absurd how Eugene was beeing booed, for pretty much no reason. We tried to cheer for him anyways, but most of the crowd was against him from the start, and again maybe only because HHH is a name and Eugene isn't. Now Undertaker-JBL... we didn't shit on it immediately. Then the wave started and it was much more entertaining so we did that for like a minute or two straight, whole arena full out. It was good times. Then we start to watch the match again and it's nothing but a big man match, so we start the boring chants and what not. And yea, we weren't just gonna give JBL heat so that WWE thought he was a good heel champion, because most of the crowd did not feel that way. Bradshaw should never have been made champion. I agree that some stability for the belt could be good, but stability on Bradshaw isn't necessarly the kind of stability it needs. Anyhow, best part of the match prolly didn't make the PPV, a fan started running down to the ring and tears his shirt off (so I thought it was Heinderich) and he hops on the limo and dances and runs from security. Of course we all noticed the big cut in the top of the limo, although I couldn't tell it was a cut from where we were, just looked like a line. Boy how I wish the fan had fell in the limo and ruined the spot planned for later. Oh and when we were booing as Taker left, it wasn't to make him come back. We were booing the match in general, and most groaned when we thought he took it otherwise. But of course, the bump was planned so he would have went back either way.Diva Dodgeball was booed for obvious reasons. The main event, of course they start chanting you screwed Bret, and my friend and bro join in until I called them out on it and said it was ridiculous that the fans were still dwelling on it 7 years later, even after Bret doesn't care anymore. I was hoping Earl would ring the bell while Orton had Benoit in the shooter just to piss of the crowd. The crowd was definitly into the match by the end, and also definitly into Orton. He posed with the belt forever after the show went off the air, and the crowd was eating him up.

 

In concluslion a very interesting crowd to be a part of live, although I definitly agree that half the shit (esp. Eugene-HHH) seemed like the crowd was just trying to be "that crowd that is so crazy they cheer the heel!" compared to cheering/acting that way because they actually liked the heel. But alas, I need sleep.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I say:

Are you a wrestling Fan? Just stop Watching, and don't give me the "I have a right to critique the matches..blah blah fucking blah. The statement above says that you don't have that right. You WANT them to fail, so shut your YAPPER.

Poor you. I'm not going anywhere. Pity, huh?

 

Perhaps you would like if these events were taken as more than a carny sport? Current management has been holding back mainstream acceptance by doing stupid shit, talking down to the audience with simplistic good/evil stories, and acting like babies when the media does give them a whiff of attention.

 

I think a lot of guys are making sacrifices but the company is satisfied to be an embarassment and a joke. If we had WCW, I'd just go watch them instead, but wait, we don't.

 

The crowd turning on a show like this has NEVER happened in the WWE before, at least not on this level.

It's been much, much worse. The crowd was almost asleep at last year's Unforgiven, as even guys like Chris Jericho and Christian who can be depended on to keep everyone awake were putting on abortions.

 

And let's not already forget about the Great American Bash, where the "main event" sounded like a rehersal with nary a sound from the crowd except maybe a small pop for the ending tombstone. And then a dead quiet level of silence for the ending "shocker" involving the cement truck. That show could have been held in a bingo hall and you'd never know the difference.

 

Stupid shit like that is why they need to change with the times or die.

 

I'm talking about the fact that the crowd decided that everything sucked, angles, matches, and workers.

Already addressed this.

 

Vince doesn't care that the crowd shit on the show, neither does creative

Already addressed (see Steiner.)

 

 

Watch as that 100% Good Guy Benoit action figure beats on the 100% Bad Guy Orton action figure with CHOPPING ACTION~! until the Orton figure does something that immediately makes him 100% Good Guy with all past feuds forgotten about.. You call that entertaining?

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

I'll just say that the reactions tonight may not have been rooted in wisdom, but it was darn fun. I didn't agree with everything that was going on. Eugene getting shit on, Eddie not getting much, "You screwed Bret"... again, "Go Leafs Go"... during the off-season, etc. There was a lot of stuff that seemed to be verbal masturbation, and I didn't really go along with that.

 

Calling Lita a slut was funny. Booing the divas was funny. I'll admit the wave was funny. It was mainly the guys off to the right of the stage who started a lot of the shit during the Taker vs. JBL match. They'd do a countdown from 10 to try to get the wave started, and it worked once or twice. I had no interest in the match itself, so it was a fun alternative.

 

I don't know how much respect the average person has towards the wrestlers, but I cheered for everyone as they made their way out. Except maybe JBL, but he was kind of incapacitated. That was a sick bump he took.

 

All in all, I hope they don't do anything crazy due to all that happened tonight. Hogan at WrestleMania was fun too, but it really fucked up the shows afterwards. Changes need to be made, but if they do something like turn Eugene and de-push Eddie, that'll suck. The crowd tonight in London should be a little more normal. We're generally a less-rambunxious bunch.

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

You know why Toronto shit all over it? They know wrestling. You give them crap, they crap on it. JBL/Taker was something they didn't want and a wave came of it. The eugene thing also proves that he's used up that character.

[Guest UncleJoeyMark]

You know why Toronto shit all over it? They know wrestling. You give them crap, they crap on it. JBL/Taker was something they didn't want and a wave came of it. The eugene thing also proves that he's used up that character.

In the words a a famous philosopher: Cut+ It+ Out!!

 

 

Cmon, wheres the sense of humor fellas?

 

Lets hope Toronto had a glorious time with themeselves!

 

 

Now wheres Michelle?....

[iggymcfly 0]

I think what's being lost in all the talk about how Eugene's character has run its course, and is an utter failure is that HHH is still the only major star held over from the Attitude Era. He gets face pops a lot of different places, and it's not always the face's fault.

 

Also, he was really fucking cool on Raw this last week. Waiting for Eugene to come to the arena, and then going back to the hotel and absolutely beating the fuck out of Regal? That's vintage HHH. It's not HHH trying to be Flair, it's not watered down Triple H from 2002-2003. That's the genuine article that was one of the most over characters in the history of wrestling from 1999 to 2001.

 

I think that almost any babyface would have got booed against HHH in Toronto tonight. Short of being a local cult hero like Jericho, they'd pretty mch have to be as cool as Austin or Rock in their prime to get the better reaction.

[Guest UncleJoeyMark]

Hey iggy, I know all this intesne debate is just about done and all, so I offer you this solution...

 

 

you ready...

 

 

CUT + IT + OUT!!

 

 

Now tune in tomorrow like a good Tanner and enjoy the show

 

 

Wheres Rebecca and the kids at....