AndrewTS Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 God bless you, Taker. Now bury him and send him packing. "I see everyone here giving the proverbial thumbs up to this, but what if it wasn't Heidenreich? What if it was someone like London or Noble? Would your reactions be the same? Holding someone down is holding someone down, regardless of who your favourites are." So, you're trying to tell me that management would get behind a London or Noble push where they'd look strong against and get wins over Taker?
Guest Fook Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 God bless you, Taker. Now bury him and send him packing. "I see everyone here giving the proverbial thumbs up to this, but what if it wasn't Heidenreich? What if it was someone like London or Noble? Would your reactions be the same? Holding someone down is holding someone down, regardless of who your favourites are." So, you're trying to tell me that management would get behind a London or Noble push where they'd look strong against and get wins over Taker? I'm not saying that exact situation's going to happen. I'm speaking in hypothetical terms. I don't want Heidnereich on my screen any more than you guys, but what I'm trying to convey is that Taker's (and others') politics aren't justified just because you don't care for the wrestler they're holding down. Also, just because someone is a talentless slug doesn't mean they'll never draw. Look at Taker himself. Or Goldberg. Or Luger. Or Nash.
The Metal Maniac Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Also, just because someone is a talentless slug doesn't mean they'll never draw. Look at Taker himself. Or Goldberg. Or Luger. Or Nash. That IS sarcasm, right? RIGHT? And this guy goes beyond talentless slug. He was ALREADY taken off TV once. Why even bother again?
Enigma Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Posted August 16, 2004 Are you trying to say Undertaker is a talentless slug? Oh lord...you've just opened the flood gates. Goldberg, Luger (in his earlier days), and Nash were able to be carried to good matches. DDP got a good match out of Goldberg when everyone thought it was impossible. Flair made Luger look like a million bucks. Jericho did yeoman work with Nash in that hair-vs-hair match. I don't even think Angle or Benoit could carry Heidenreich past *.
Angle-plex Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 I like both Undertaker and Kurt Angle, but they have never really clicked in the ring. If they have another match, my nightmares from the Angle/Taker Survivor Series 2000 shitfest may return.
Enigma Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Posted August 16, 2004 I like both Undertaker and Kurt Angle, but they have never really clicked in the ring. If they have another match, my nightmares from the Angle/Taker Survivor Series 2000 shitfest may return. Watch their WWE Title match on Smackdown in September 2003 I think it was. An absolutely awesome match. They worked circles around their Fully Loaded 2000 and Survivor Series 2000 matches.
Guest Fook Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 DDP planned out his matches move for move in advance. Doing that, anyone can look good. Flair made everyone look good in his matches. That's what made him so good to watch. Hell, he apparently got a watchable match out of freaking El Gigante! I didn't care for Jericho's matches with Nash. As far as I'm concerned, Michaels and Bret were the only two to ever get a good match out of him and they're considered two of the greatest workers ever. And Taker IS a talentless slug. The only reason he was ever able to get over is his size and his gimmick (which I admittingly did enjoy when younger but now is only tolerable in small amounts).
Guest Fook Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Also, just because someone is a talentless slug doesn't mean they'll never draw. Look at Taker himself. Or Goldberg. Or Luger. Or Nash. That IS sarcasm, right? RIGHT? And this guy goes beyond talentless slug. He was ALREADY taken off TV once. Why even bother again? Like him or hate him, but accept that in 98 he was over bigtime as leader of the Wolfpac. BTW, remember that "Blue Chipper" Rocky Miavia who was pushed despite being insanely green, failed miserably, and was taken off tv? Yeah, good thing they never brought his talentless ass back.
Creepy Crawl Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 As far as the UT v JBL , the whole thing did seem kinda pointless given the lack of build up to the match . I dont know if its UT's work schedule that has him with such limited TV time or what ? It just seems like he shows up every other week , rolls his eyes in the back of his head , tombstones a midget and is gone . Now Edge ................ the guy has never done thing for me personally . The only time I have ever found him remotely entertaining is when E&C were together back in the good ol days . The guy just seems so bland to me . He needs to dump the whole look and ego he has and go in a different direction , maybe turn super-heel or something .
Enigma Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Posted August 16, 2004 DDP planned out his matches move for move in advance. Doing that, anyone can look good. Flair made everyone look good in his matches. That's what made him so good to watch. Hell, he apparently got a watchable match out of freaking El Gigante! I didn't care for Jericho's matches with Nash. As far as I'm concerned, Michaels and Bret were the only two to ever get a good match out of him and they're considered two of the greatest workers ever. And Taker IS a talentless slug. The only reason he was ever able to get over is his size and his gimmick (which I admittingly did enjoy when younger but now is only tolerable in small amounts). Well, if it worked for DDP, then why don't more people do it? Old-school mentality or not, if it produces a higher quality match, then what's the problem with doing it? Kudos to DDP doing what it takes to produce high quality everytime. And by your statements on Undertaker, you obviously have not seen any of his matches since the beginning of 2003. He's pulled good matches out of Big Show, A-Train, and Orlando Jordan, had great matches with Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar, and worked many miracles with John Cena. Given Cena's recent work, it's obvious now who carried who in those UT/Cena matches. The only times I've seen UT put on a less-than-good match since Jan. 2003 were gimmick matches (Vince, Dudleys, Biker Chain vs. Lesnar, etc.) and WMXX vs. Kane. Other wise, UT has been an absolutely solid worker since January 2003. And he's kept the political bullshit down to a minimum too, so more kudos to him.
Enigma Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Posted August 16, 2004 Also, just because someone is a talentless slug doesn't mean they'll never draw. Look at Taker himself. Or Goldberg. Or Luger. Or Nash. That IS sarcasm, right? RIGHT? And this guy goes beyond talentless slug. He was ALREADY taken off TV once. Why even bother again? Like him or hate him, but accept that in 98 he was over bigtime as leader of the Wolfpac. BTW, remember that "Blue Chipper" Rocky Miavia who was pushed despite being insanely green, failed miserably, and was taken off tv? Yeah, good thing they never brought his talentless ass back. He wasn't taken off TV. He injured his knee and needed surgery. He came back when he was healthy and turned heel.
tekcop Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 So... am I the only one excited about a JBL/Taker rematch? Hopefully with better build-up this time.
Guest Fook Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 And by your statements on Undertaker, you obviously have not seen any of his matches since the beginning of 2003. He's pulled good matches out of Big Show, A-Train, and Orlando Jordan, had great matches with Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar, and worked many miracles with John Cena. Given Cena's recent work, it's obvious now who carried who in those UT/Cena matches. The only times I've seen UT put on a less-than-good match since Jan. 2003 were gimmick matches (Vince, Dudleys, Biker Chain vs. Lesnar, etc.) and WMXX vs. Kane. Other wise, UT has been an absolutely solid worker since January 2003. And he's kept the political bullshit down to a minimum too, so more kudos to him. Out of the ones you listed, I liked the match with Angle on SD and with Cena at Vengeance 03 (although I hated the finish of both, but that's another thread). I haven't seen the Big Show, Jordan, or Vince matches. Aside from the HIAC, his matches with Lesnar were overrated. The ones with A-Train and Kane were boring and the one with the Dudleys a few months ago just plain sucked. Granted, he has noticably improved since 2001/2002, but I'm still not a fan of his ring work. As for the Rock, I forgot about him being injured but do I think they kept him off TV for a bit when he was healthy. My memory's a bit fuzzy, so if someone could help out with dates and info it would be appreciated (even if I'm wrong).
Enigma Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Posted August 16, 2004 Yeah, but still, calling UT a talentless slug is completely inaccurate. Talentless slugs don't stick around for 14 years. And there's been a lot more physically impressive people than UT to come through WWE over the years and couldn't last because they were the actual talentless slugs.
jester Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 I don't want Heidnereich on my screen any more than you guys, but what I'm trying to convey is that Taker's (and others') politics aren't justified just because you don't care for the wrestler they're holding down. I'm with Fook on this one. It's not UT's place to determine who is push worthy. I wouldn't go so far to call UT talentless, but I'd say the same thing if it was Benoit or anyone else turning his nose up at an opponent. Management says you have to work with this guy. Suck it up. The only way I'll accept what he did is if UT geniunely believes Heidenreich is actually dangerous in the ring. He has to look out for his safety, since Vince has demonstrated that worker safety is priority #56, 883...
Dark Age Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 DDP planned out his matches move for move in advance. Doing that, anyone can look good. Flair made everyone look good in his matches. That's what made him so good to watch. Hell, he apparently got a watchable match out of freaking El Gigante! I didn't care for Jericho's matches with Nash. As far as I'm concerned, Michaels and Bret were the only two to ever get a good match out of him and they're considered two of the greatest workers ever. And Taker IS a talentless slug. The only reason he was ever able to get over is his size and his gimmick (which I admittingly did enjoy when younger but now is only tolerable in small amounts). Well, if it worked for DDP, then why don't more people do it? Old-school mentality or not, if it produces a higher quality match, then what's the problem with doing it? Kudos to DDP doing what it takes to produce high quality everytime. And by your statements on Undertaker, you obviously have not seen any of his matches since the beginning of 2003. He's pulled good matches out of Big Show, A-Train, and Orlando Jordan, had great matches with Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar, and worked many miracles with John Cena. Given Cena's recent work, it's obvious now who carried who in those UT/Cena matches. The only times I've seen UT put on a less-than-good match since Jan. 2003 were gimmick matches (Vince, Dudleys, Biker Chain vs. Lesnar, etc.) and WMXX vs. Kane. Other wise, UT has been an absolutely solid worker since January 2003. And he's kept the political bullshit down to a minimum too, so more kudos to him. His match with Jordan was good? And how much of the last 18 months have seen Taker out injured? Or taking time off?
Enigma Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Posted August 16, 2004 If it's so low on his list, then why are piledrivers and overhead belly-to-belly suplexes restricted from being used?
Fökai Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 The only way I'll accept what he did is if UT geniunely believes Heidenreich is actually dangerous in the ring. He has to look out for his safety, since Vince has demonstrated that worker safety is priority #56, 883... Didn't Heidenreich nearly break Steven Richards' neck on multiple occasions, including a botched electric chair drop? I thought that was the reason the WWE sent him down in the first place.
Guest webmasterofwrestlegame Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 The last time Undertaker went with a crappy DQ finish in a match where people thought he was supposed to put over talent, he went out a month later on PPV and put the guy mega over in a great match. That would be the HIAC match with Lesnar in 2002.
CanadianChick Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Didn't Heidenreich nearly break Steven Richards' neck on multiple occasions, including a botched electric chair drop? I thought that was the reason the WWE sent him down in the first place. Yes he did. It was even worse to since I believe Stevie has a history of neck problems.
Guest JoeyStyles Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Taker did the right thing burying Heidenreich but that means he is still feuding with JBL so either way you see it the fans are screwed.
Guest JMA Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Didn't Heidenreich job MULTIPLE times to Rico when he was last on TV? I distinctly remember that. No one is going to take Heidenreich seriously until he is built up (ala Goldberg). As far as I'm concerned, Taker did the right thing.
LooseCannon25 Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Heidenreich is godawful..........He almost killed Stevie and alsways looks lost in there. If you have a good character and gimmick, and can connect with the fans, you dont have to be a good wrestler. Just ask Cena, he's horrible
Dark Age Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Didn't Heidenreich job MULTIPLE times to Rico when he was last on TV? I distinctly remember that. No one is going to take Heidenreich seriously until he is built up (ala Goldberg). As far as I'm concerned, Taker did the right thing. Yes. Yes he did.
Use Your Illusion Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 I think it's hilarious that Taker shoots down Heidenreich for fear of having bad matches, just so he can work with JBL. I loved the SSlam match, but the irony here cannot go unnoticed. Sucks to be you, Heidenreich. UYI
bobobrazil1984 Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Low Ratings Huge Cause Of Concern In WWE Ratings send message to McMahons... Word is that the McMahons, Kevin Dunn, and the rest of the top WWE management team were all really hit hard at the extremely low ratings for RAW and Smackdown this week. In the past, management has always made excuses for low ratings. This time, it seems that they seriously realize that the product has major flaws. What they will do to address all of this remains to be seen. Credit: PWInsider.com 2 years too late.
Guest JMA Posted August 17, 2004 Report Posted August 17, 2004 Did anyone else watch the streaming video (at WWE.com) of Edge talking about the fans booing him? He seemed to "heel it up" with that interview. I thought he came off very good in the interview. If they turn Edge right (assuming they DO turn him), he could be a very interesting AND realistic heel. I'm thinking Edge would make an excellent "bitter" heel.
CanadianChick Posted August 17, 2004 Report Posted August 17, 2004 Yeah, it was pretty good. It's smart of WWE to have Edge feud with Jericho to turn him heel since Jericho is one of the most over faces (arguably the most over face) on Raw.
Guest Dynamite Kido Posted August 17, 2004 Report Posted August 17, 2004 Boo fucking hoo. I hate reading shit like this. You wanna bitch and complain when you don't like your reaction.....then don't bring the suck. Now, Edge has caught fire as of late(at least he did decent stuff with Orton) and has been pretty decent......until Summerslam. The three way for the IC was mediocre to say the least. As far as Undertaker goes........F-U-C-K H-I-M. He fucking fanned a punch! Hell, I think the reason why the WWE Title match flopped was because of UT and less JBL. So basically, if JBL has surpassed you as far as work in the ring goes......you have broughted the suck like it has never been brought before.....
EdwardKnoxII Posted August 17, 2004 Report Posted August 17, 2004 McMahon Says No Time Off, Randy Orton Makes Headlines McMahon also comments on the weird Toronto Summerslam Crowd Sources in WWE are saying that last night's crowd is being seen as nothing more than a vocal minority of fans and nothing to cause them to change course on any storylines (even with the impending Edge heel turn). Of greater concern is the drop in ratings for both Raw and Smackdown last week. Vince McMahon told wrestlers are a recent meeting that he expects all of them to make every show they're scheduled for and not ask for any time off for a while because they all have to work hard to turn business around. WWE has put a scan of the cover of yesterday's Toronto Sun on their main page showing Randy Orton as the victor last night holding up the World Title belt. Credit: Wade Keller, PWTorch.com
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