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[Angle-plex 0]

Orton is a very, very good pick and JBL --- much as people hate him --- has delivered the goods as a singles worker.

Rebuttal: JBL delivers the goods? Care to name them? I know his matches with Guerrero were praised, but as far as I can tell, JBL hasn't delivered any classic matches in his HISTORY with WWE, which is what? Eight years?

He does every thing right for a heel. His promos are so over-the-top they're hilarious, the gimmick he's using can draw universal heat from anywhere in the United States, and the match he works is perfect for a big agile heel.

He would be a great United States Champion. WWE Champion? No way. Cheap heat + Shitty matches doesn't(shouldn't) equal a title reign.

 

I do, however, agree that giving unproven draws the belt is a good idea, but there would have been better candidates than JBL.

 

Name them.

 

Undertaker, Guerrero, Angle just to name a few. RVD, Booker (ugh), even Cena (who isn't ready yet, but still wouldn't have been a better choice).

[Guest MikeSC]

Orton is a very, very good pick and JBL --- much as people hate him --- has delivered the goods as a singles worker.

Rebuttal: JBL delivers the goods? Care to name them? I know his matches with Guerrero were praised, but as far as I can tell, JBL hasn't delivered any classic matches in his HISTORY with WWE, which is what? Eight years?

 

I do, however, agree that giving unproven draws the belt is a good idea, but there would have been better candidates than JBL.

Rebuttal Rebuttal: You can hardly blame him for his match with UT being a train wreck as UT has worked NOTHING but pure crap matches since his return. His matches with Eddy were quite good. Heck, I thought his match with Spike was better than most of Spike's matches. He doesn't have XPac heat. NOBODY in the business presently has XPac heat.

 

And, sadly, there weren't better options on SD. Cena appears to be a surefire draw in the future --- no need to blow him now. RVD? Absolutely not. He's been mediocre --- at best --- and has no ability to cut a promo or carry a show. Booker T? He, too, has been consistently sub-par for a while now.

STATEMENT: Spike Dudley could end up killing the CW division with his title run

Wasn't it dead before? He COULD end up killing it I guess, but he could also livin' it up a bit. Depends on how he is booked.

They have heels far more capable of carrying the gold (Jamie Knoble) than they have faces. And Spike is a bump machine, not a CW worker. I can see this being an Syxx-level CW Title run (which effectively killed the WCW CW division for a while).

-=Mike

[Highland 0]

Statement: The IWC looks for reasons to shit on people they don't like, magnifying their flaws while overlooking the flaws of those they worship.

 

Example: Eddie beats up a fan and acts in a very unprofessional manner and we blame the fan for this and forgive Eddie.

On the other hand, JBL acts like a dickish heel should and does the goose-step in Germany, and we call him, not his character, an asshole for it.

[Guest MikeSC]

Statement: The IWC looks for reasons to shit on people they don't like, magnifying their flaws while overlooking the flaws of those they worship.

 

Example: Eddie beats up a fan and acts in a very unprofessional manner and we blame the fan for this and forgive Eddie.

On the other hand, JBL acts like a dickish heel should and does the goose-step in Germany, and we call him, not his character, an asshole for it.

REBUTTAL: That's pretty obvious. Please note the TOTAL change on the views of Ric Flair after criticizing Bret Hart. There is a hierarchy for the IWC.

 

STATEMENT: Canada sucks.

 

REAL STATEMENT: The Rock is the most professional person the business has ever met. NEVER bitched about a job. Continued to improve long after he was so over it was not needed.

-=Mike

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Rebuttal #1: "The IWC" is a generalization, and a ridiculous one at that. Each message board has a different "personality" from the others, not-to-mention personalities within that personality. You can't even find commonalities within _this board_ to make such a statement, let alone the entire IWC. In My View, this is worse than the content of the statement because it's a hypocritical post on hypocrisy. It's an ignorant post lambasting the ignorant.

 

However, beyond that, why would anyone want to praise those they dislike and hate-on those they like? It sort-of goes against the whole "like/dislike" thing.

 

And, "it was his character" is just-as-bad as "it's a symbol" - he, the person, had the choice to do what he did and he paid the price for it.

 

Rebuttal #2: Chris Benoit is more professional than The Rock. Even if he slept and subsequently stole the Bookermans wife.

[Guest MikeSC]

Rebuttal #1: "The IWC" is a generalization, and a ridiculous one at that. Each message board has a different "personality" from the others, not-to-mention personalities within that personality. You can't even find commonalities within _this board_ to make such a statement, let alone the entire IWC. In My View, this is worse than the content of the statement because it's a hypocritical post on hypocrisy. It's an ignorant post lambasting the ignorant.

 

However, beyond that, why would anyone want to praise those they dislike and hate-on those they like? It sort-of goes against the whole "like/dislike" thing.

 

And, "it was his character" is just-as-bad as "it's a symbol" - he, the person, had the choice to do what he did and he paid the price for it.

 

Rebuttal #2: Chris Benoit is more professional than The Rock. Even if he slept and subsequently stole the Bookermans wife.

Rebuttal #1: Dig the sand out of your vagina

 

Rebuttal #2: Rock has every inch of Benoit's professionalism --- and he never fucked and later stole a booker's wife.

-=Mike

[Highland 0]

STATEMENT: Canada sucks.

STATEMENT: I may temporarily agree with MikeSC outside of the CE folder, but then he says something that makes me wave my hand dismissively and say, "Bah!"

 

Reply to RRR: Perhaps I did over-generalize, but you can't deny the obvious favouritisms everyone plays.

[jester 0]

Statement: The IWC looks for reasons to shit on people they don't like, magnifying their flaws while overlooking the flaws of those they worship.

 

Example: Eddie beats up a fan and acts in a very unprofessional manner and we blame the fan for this and forgive Eddie.

On the other hand, JBL acts like a dickish heel should and does the goose-step in Germany, and we call him, not his character, an asshole for it.

Statement: The IWC tends to generalize about itself.

 

There were people who criticized Eddie for fighting with fans. There were also people who said that what JLB did in Germany was no big deal.

 

I am not saying either opinion is right or wrong, just that there is diversity in smark opinion.

[CanadianChick 0]

Rebuttal #2: Rock has every inch of Benoit's professionalism --- and he never fucked and later stole a booker's wife.

I think Benoit has had to deal with more than the Rock has though. Don't get me wrong, Rock's a grade A professional. But would he be that professional if he was Benoit?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Reply to RRR: Perhaps I did over-generalize, but you can't deny the obvious favouritisms everyone plays.

 

Of course, I do it too. I'm sure you do it as well. Everyone does it with their favourites. Hence the name. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't say "I'm being impartial here...", then you start to contradict yourself and kill your credibility and opinions worth. This board has different viewpoints that tends to balance things out - there may be more voices on one side or another - but there tend to be 2 different voices on almost every issue. In those JBL and Eddie discussions, there were different voices. There were people saying "It's just his character... it's just for cheap heat... it's been done before" and "How come there isn't any outrage at Eddie doing...".

 

Rebuttal #1: Dig the sand out of your vagina

 

Mike, boys have penises.

 

Rebuttal #2: Rock has every inch of Benoit's professionalism --- and he never fucked and later stole a booker's wife.

-=Mike

 

Rock can't touch Benoits professionalism. I like Rock; I admire his willingness to put guys over, but he's no Benoit. I don't think The Rock talks to Joe Jobber about his matches and gives him advice. Benoit does. Benoit goes out of his way to put over the younger guys and not only jobs but *puts over* clean. Orton is the perfect example of that. Rock has a tendancy to put himself over at the expense of others -whether he knows it or not - and even when he "helps" others, he just makes it worse for them. Rock outshining the guy he's trying to get over doesn't really "get them over".

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

STATEMENT: WWE should go back to hiring some real bands/rappers/singers to perform songs for the WWE talent (I mean WWE-exclusive songs, with rights owned by WWE).

 

I say this because most of the entrance themes blend together for undercarders, and hiring some real bands to play the wrestlers' songs might help differentiate them. Mostly, I just REALLY want to hear some Black Label Society song written exclusively for, say, Undertaker. Motörhead has performed two of the better WWE/WWF themes of the past 5 years (HHH's "The Game," Evolution's theme), and instead of generic rock riffs, actual themes could help. I'd like to see Kid Rock do some of his country/rap/rock stuff for Jamie Noble, and maybe have Fozzy do the theme for Chris Jericho (they should really have done this right from the get-go).

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Agreed - music enhances a wrestlers' personality and is a big part of the wrestling business. Generic beats and guitar riffs points out that the wrestler is, well, generic. It's a good chance to help-out newer bands and at the same time seem "cool".

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Statement: The praise on this board for Bradshaw is ridiculous. Lets give the title to Jon Heidenreich next shall we?

[benoit4hor 0]

Rebuttal- John Heidenreich is actually worse than Bradshaw.

 

Statement- The WWE was better with Goldberg then without.

[Brett Favre 0]

Statement- The WWE was better with Goldberg then without.

Rebuttal: The WWE started getting better after No Way Out, around when Goldberg was leaving. They are better without him, better matches, better storylines. (Well, mostly RAW)

[Guest MikeSC]

Rebuttal- John Heidenreich is actually worse than Bradshaw.

 

Statement- The WWE was better with Goldberg then without.

Rebuttal: Wrestling as a whole is better without Goldberg.

-=Mike

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Rebuttal: Goldberg did so little in the WWE that you could erase him from WWE history and I don't think anyone could tell the difference.

[Guest MikeSC]

Rebuttal: Goldberg did so little in the WWE that you could erase him from WWE history and I don't think anyone could tell the difference.

Rebuttal: That pretty well fits with WCW as well.

 

Statement: John Cena will be a disaster as a World Champ.

-=Mike

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Rebuttal: John Cena is on Smackdown, the World Champion is on RAW.

 

Addendum: The crowd, it seems, doesn't understand his promos if he doesn't rap. His wrestling, it seems, has been uninspired since his match with Benoit back in December. His character, it seems, has grown stale and is bound to lose crowd support eventually. Despite the error, it seems, MikeSC is right.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Rebuttal: And, it seems, Cena will never be good, it seems, unless he becomes what will, it seems, be classified as a "good wrestler."

 

...it seems.

[Brett Favre 0]

Statement: John Cena will be a disaster as a World Champ.

Rebuttal: Cena's too popular to be a disaster of the champ. If anything, his popularity will keep him as a solid champ. He can't be a worse choice than JBL.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Cena showed great wrestling ability against Benoit in their aforementioned December Smackdown match. The potential is there, but his potential has remained untapped for a while now. I think both Cena and the WWE are to blame for this. The WWE has delt Cena some bad cards, but Cena -at one time- was able to bluff (to keep with the analogy, as there is no way to turn bad cards into good cards) his way to success. Cena did a lot of textbook things to get over (which was to his credit then), but it seems, he needs another volume because he has ran out of ideas (which is to his fault now - he has copied so many methods of getting over, but can't think of any of his own). In other words, it's time for Cena to stop walking the path and start making a new one.

[JoeDirt 0]

Statement: It's been over 10 years since being a tag team champion meant anything in the WWF/E.

[Brett Favre 0]

Statement: It's been over 10 years since being a tag team champion meant anything in the WWF/E.

Rebuttal: Even if it was only for a short moment, when Jericho/Benoit beat the Power Trip, it meant something. When Los Guerreros/Angle & Benoit/Edge & Rey were feuding for the tag titles, they definitely meant something.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Agreed. The last "good" years for the tag titles IMO were 1993.

[Australian Pride 0]

Statement: It's been over 10 years since being a tag team champion meant anything in the WWF/E.

Rebuttal: Road Dogg/Billy Gunn would have never gotten without the tag straps, and the TLC matches were also very high profile. I think it would be closer to the mark to say the tag titles have meant nothing since the botched invasion angle.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think the NAO and TLC would have gotten equally over if they didn't have the titles. All the titles did was give them context; not add importance or status.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Statement: It's been over 10 years since being a tag team champion meant anything in the WWF/E.

I don't know, in the New Age Outlaw days they meant a lot. They showed that they were the most dominant team in the WWF, and only a superteam like Rock N Sock or RockerTaker couyld beat them.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Rebuttal: John Cena is the future of WWE. He can very easily "turn on" the edge and creativity, but he has no need to right now (and nor should he waste it on Booker T)

 

John Cena takes a Ass kicking like no one else, which in a Main Event will help how green he is. And even-thop no one here likes his move set, it is just as effective as anything Rock, Austin, HHH or Foley had when they were champs.

[Australian Pride 0]

I think the NAO and TLC would have gotten equally over if they didn't have the titles. All the titles did was give them context; not add importance or status.

How can TLC get over without the tag titles? The object of the whole match is to grab the titles while they are suspended above the ring.

 

As for the NAO, they might have gotten over just by being in DX, but they wouldn't of been as big without the "tag team chapions of the wooooorld" tagline.

 

It is safe to say that the tag titles haven't added much to the overall picture since the early nineties, and they will probably never reach their halcyon days of the late eighties again, but there have been some moments in the last 10 years where the belts have meant something.