Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted August 28, 2004 Comparing Lesnar/Benoit to Angle/Benoit is a little unfair, as Lesnar only had the 1 singles match against Benoit, with maybe a tag match or 2 as their other meetings. Angle/Benoit had a lot more chances to work together. Anyway, I'd be SO up for Lesnar coming back. Can you imagine the reaction the first time he'd come out? He'd easily be the most over heel in the entire company. They'd be crazy to job him out right away. Damn, now my hopes are all up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 28, 2004 RRR, what makes you think Lesnar vs. Rock from Summerslam 02 was better than Angle vs. Rock from No Way Out 2001? (I'm curious, I'm a fan of both matches) There was more of a story in Lesnar/Rock, that I really dug. Rock questioning himself after not being able to put Brock away was fucking awesome, as-well-as the end sequence. I'd have to see both matches again to accurately compare, but my general impression was that Lesnar/Rock was better than Angle/Rock. I'm personally shocked that he thought Angle/Eddie was even close to Lesnar/Eddie. Having finally seen it, Lesnar/Guerrero is my MOTY. I love Lesnar/Guerrero. I love the way Eddie uses the ring to his advantage against the monster Lesnar. BUT, Angle/Guerrero at Summerslam was fucking sweet in the way they played off their previous WM match - which gets big bonus points because that rarely ever happens in the WWE. I'd give Eddie/Lesnar **** and Angle/Eddie ***1/2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lt. Al Giardello 0 Report post Posted August 28, 2004 RRR, what makes you think Lesnar vs. Rock from Summerslam 02 was better than Angle vs. Rock from No Way Out 2001? (I'm curious, I'm a fan of both matches) There was more of a story in Lesnar/Rock, that I really dug. Rock questioning himself after not being able to put Brock away was fucking awesome, as-well-as the end sequence. I'd have to see both matches again to accurately compare, but my general impression was that Lesnar/Rock was better than Angle/Rock. I personally thought The Rock basically carried Brock in Summerslam 02, and made him look like a million bucks. But I thought Angle/Rock at No Mercy was better then both Brock/Rock at Summerslam 02 and Angle/Rock at No Way Out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted August 29, 2004 Statement: Vince McMahon is a better Play-by-Play guy than Jim Ross ever was in the WWF Statement: Paul Heyman is the best Color guy the WWF has ever had, even better than Ventura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lt. Al Giardello 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2004 Statement: Vince McMahon is a better Play-by-Play guy than Jim Ross ever was in the WWF Statement: Paul Heyman is the best Color guy the WWF has ever had, even better than Ventura Rebuttal: Vince McMahon's 1 2 oh he almost got him never annoyed you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Australian Pride 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2004 Statement: Vince McMahon is a better Play-by-Play guy than Jim Ross ever was in the WWF Statement: Paul Heyman is the best Color guy the WWF has ever had, even better than Ventura No way on Vince. Yes way on Heyman. Vince was the most irritating announcer i've ever heard, and while JR is extremely cliched these days he is still better than Vince in his 'prime'. His disgruntled persona, alongside Vince and King in 1996, was brilliant. Heyman is the best Color guy they have ever had. The only guy that comes close for me is Bobby Heenan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted August 30, 2004 For Vince, he is the only guy ever to put over every wrestler who wrestled. Anyone from Mantaur to HBK was important according to Vince. Yah he was over the top, but so was Ross. Plus, Ross never made u care about the midcard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 30, 2004 For Vince, he is the only guy ever to put over every wrestler who wrestled. Anyone from Mantaur to HBK was important according to Vince. Yah he was over the top, but so was Ross. Plus, Ross never made u care about the midcard. Fuck that. Ross was the ONLY guy to ever make Russo's angles ever seem sensical logical. Plus, he made people care about the midcard tremendously. Look at him calling the TLC matches for example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Vince made HBK/Razor seem WAY more important than Ross did TLC. Ross made the MATCH matter, he never made me care at ALL about the wrsetlers. Huge diffrence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Statement: Vince McMahon is a better Play-by-Play guy than Jim Ross ever was in the WWF Hmm. Tough one. I'd take Vince over Jim Ross right here right now if Raw wanted to do old-school announcers like Sportscenter did earlier this month. As an announcer, Vince put over every guy out there, just like someone said. He was a shill at times, but never seemed to get as bad as they do now in terms of deferring the match at hand to the backburner for something else. Plus the laugh is classic: "hlgah-hlah-ha!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Statement: Jim Ross has almost completely destroyed his legacy as an annoucer due to his beyond-terrible job in the past 4 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Rebuttal: I'll stretch it to five. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 I'd stretch it to 7. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Rebuttal: I think Its the past 3 years Before that, he was with Heyman for 8 months, and he was better. Actually..... Statement: Its Jerry Lawler's fault that Jim Ross is as bas as he is now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHawk 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Rebuttal: I think Its the past 3 years Before that, he was with Heyman for 8 months, and he was better. Actually..... Statement: Its Jerry Lawler's fault that Jim Ross is as bas as he is now. No rebuttal. I've been saying that for three years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Disagreed: While Lawler is a bad influence on JR, that doesn't stop Ross from using his tired cliches and horrible PBP. Watching the UFC shows with Rogan and Goldberg, or the old PRIDE shows with Quadros and Rutten, I realize how bad JR is compared to them. I think it's a general lack of alternatives that makes him tolerable to a lot of wrestling fans, when in reality, he's god awful and usually brings down the quality of a match rather than enhancing it. All he is is a voice, and some people still get excited by his yell-jobs as if he's actually interested in what he's shilling. I'd wish I could still get hyped up by him screaming for a minute for-no-discernable-reason if that didn't involve me to completely not appreciate actual good announcers like the aforementioned. JR doesn't sound excited or even interested in the product - it sounds like he's just "doing his job". Doing it for as long as he has and given the product he has had to call, I can understand it. But I do not accept it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Speaking of commentators... Statement: Josh Matthews is the best PBP guy in WWE right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Best PBP in the WWE because he knows the most moves (coughonlyguywhoknowscough) and a lot of the histories of wrestlers. But he doesn't bring any emotion into the match, which is half the job. He doesn't make me excited or interested in any of the things he's talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Do any of the current batches of PBP commentators bring a lot of emotion? I know JR's emotional, but his emotions seem somewhat far-fetched and ridiculous to me sometimes. Cole saying "Damn" is as far as his emotional spectrum is. Todd Grisham....I won't even comment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 No, none of them do. 90% of them have that Big-Time-Cracker Radio voice, which doesn't make for some good excitement. That's why they all suck. That 10% is JR and I don't buy it for a second. Cole is probably the best they have, and that's just plain sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 You mean Cole's the best overall, or at the emotional aspect? Because I could see an arguement for overall, but when he's conveying emotion, he sounds like a whiney teenage girl who's daddy wouldn't give her a $100. And I should know: I'm a teenage girl who whines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USC Wuz Robbed! 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Rebuttal: They all suck. Heyman was the best in recent memory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Overall. He at least attempts emotion, though pretty poorly. He's trying and has improved (from "shitty" to "poor"), which is a helluva lot more than I could say for JR who seems to just "hit his marks". Ditto with his PBP. Plus, he knows when to defer to Tazz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Rebuttal: Heyman was a colour commentator. We are talking about PBP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Overall. He at least attempts emotion, though pretty poorly. He's trying and has improved (from "shitty" to "poor"), which is a helluva lot more than I could say for JR who seems to just "hit his marks". Ditto with his PBP. Plus, he knows when to defer to Tazz. Ah, gotcha. That's one thing Cole is good at: having nice chemistry with Tazz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USC Wuz Robbed! 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 My mistake. In this case, my vote's for Cole for the reason RRR lists, that he knows to turn it over to Tazz when needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Personally, I think they need to remodel the announce structure. The way they have been producing the shows for the past 6 (SIX) years has been the same. If an old viewer of the show turns on RAW and still sees/hears JR and the King announce, still sees the same formatted show -aka, the show they stopped watching- then why would they even stay to watch? Meanwhile, if that old fan turns on RAW and hears something new(er), then there is more of a possibility that old fan will stay and see what the show has to offer. Just on that initial interest alone. Typically I am not into appealing to old fans, but rather, appealing to those that still watch - but I believe this change would benefit both because I -as a long time fan- am bored with their current way of doing things. 6 years ago it was fresh, now it's not. The answer is simple: Change. Take a risk. Statement: The WWE needs to change the way they produce the shows. From camera shots, to announce teams, to format, to content. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 As a follow up, I think the WWE should use shows like HEAT and Velocity to experiment different methods of producing shows. Different styles. Different approaches. There is NOTHING to lose doing this, given the current ratings, and EVERYTHING to gain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2004 Rebuttal: Yes, but in baby steps. First, change content. Then commentators. Then the set (especially the Raw set...it's been the same for about 5 years, practically). I'm not sure if it's smart to do it all at once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted August 30, 2004 They could do it all at once if Vince just came out an said "it's time for a change" again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
