John Byrne

[SuperJerk 0]

My favorite writer-artist as a kid was John Byrne. I used to go out of my way to collect back-issues of "Fantastic Four," "X-Men," and "Alpha Flight." His work on "Superman" was magificent, in my opinion. "Avengers West Coast" became THE Avengers team during his run. "Next Men," an early 90s tale of genetically iwas ahead of its time.

 

Flash-forward to the recent past.

 

-"Spider-Man: Chapter One" was a forgettable revamping of the old Spidey stories from the early-60s.

-"Marvel: the Lost Generation" was a good concept, but a little too far-fetched (super-hero team that spanned 20+ years, but no one in the current Marvel continuity remebers or mentions them) and had a very anti-climatic end.

-His run on "X-Men: the Hidden Years" was okay, but was cancelled because Marvel wanted to relaunch X-Men under Morrison, rather than because of sales or quality (an issue that lead him to swear he'd never work for Marvel again).

-"Batman and Superman: Generations" was good. "Generation 2" was okay. "Generations 3" sucked ass.

-His JLA run, which was only a springboard for the new "Doom Patrol" series, was universally panned.

-The new "Doom Patrol" isn't very good at all.

 

So what happened? Is the guy out of ideas? His artwork is unchanged in 15 years...why does it look good in 1989, but look stale today? Isn't it weird that everything he's done lately has been a nostalgia project?

 

Has Byrne lost his talent, or is he just stuck in the past?

[Guest SpiderFan]

I think he's become a bitter old man, who's ideas are outdated, who hasn't produced anything worthwhile in quite some time, and is basically living off his name.

 

That said, in his prime, he was one of the best, but just like Claremont, he's hung around too long.

[Steviekick 0]

I wouldn't say his artwork is necessarily dated. Byrne has a very clean super hero, very similar to Neal Adams. It's a classic style that still holds up

 

I think the problem is that Byrne doesn't necessarily have a project that he really cares about. Alpha Flight was amazing because he wanted to do a cool Canadian super hero. She-Hulk was because he wanted to do a funny book.

 

He's just unmotivated. His run on JLA sucked because he was just going through the motions until he could have his Doom Patrol work.

 

What they need to do is team up legendary talent like Claremont and Byrne with upcoming talent, kinda so they can get the rub.

[starvenger 0]

I agree with Steviekick on this one. The one thing you can't take away from Byrne is that his artwork still looks good. But if you want him to write something good, he needs to be able to find that project on his own.

[Guest JMA]

I liked the work Byrne did on Superman (up until the pocket universe saga, that is) and I also really enjoyed Generations. Besides those two stories, I haven't really followed his work.

[Vyce 0]

I would say it's both - he's lost it, and he is stuck in the past. He's similar to Claremont in that regard, although I think Claremont is a far worse perpetrator because he's fucking awful and he's currently, for some incredibly stupid reason, in a position of power again as far as the X-books go, and is doing what he can to retcon all of the GOOD things Morrison accomplished.

 

Great talent in the past - but that's the key word, isn't it? The past.

 

And might I concur that the new Doom Patrol is absolutely atrocious.

[converge241 0]

His storytelling jumped the shark for the most part on Spider-Man Chapter One

 

his art is still tops

 

he is still one of my all-time favorite creators no matter how much ive disliked almost everything hes done lately

[Steviekick 0]

It's all about motivation. As for why everyone hates Doom Patrol, I'm thinking it's because it is a mighty lame concept in general. It truly is. And I'm sure that propably effects everyone's views on the new series.

 

The art from John Byrne's next project, The Demon looks really cool. It's a character that he's quite fond of and is trying to revamp more along the lines of the original Kirby series. That series I'm looking forward to because in every interveiw where he's talked about it, he seems to be enthusiastic towards the project, and he wants it to be a homage to one of his comic idols.

[starvenger 0]

The art from John Byrne's next project, The Demon looks really cool. It's a character that he's quite fond of and is trying to revamp more along the lines of the original Kirby series. That series I'm looking forward to because in every interveiw where he's talked about it, he seems to be enthusiastic towards the project, and he wants it to be a homage to one of his comic idols.

Didn't he already try that with the "Fourth World" stuff?

[pochorenella 0]

I don't recall Byrne doing "Fourth World" stuff that much, other than that big DC crossover mini-series. Walt Simonson was the one that always seemed to have a new series about it, be it Orion or whatever.

 

Byrne had great runs on many series, as an artist and as a writer. His FF work is perhaps the best of his career. Just pick up any of the Visionaries TPBs for proof. Those 3 issues of Avengers he did way back (Avengers vs Count Nefaria) still give me goosebumps when I read them (C'mon, Marvel, do a TPB of it NOW!!). He did a good job IMO with Iron Man (the Dragon Seed saga), and I don't think I have to remind anyone about his X-Men work. That said, I do believe his skills have diminished at an exponential rate, both as a writer and as an artist (although he's still quite decent in that Neal Adams-esque way, like someone else said, but he needs a good inker). That crap he put out with S-M:Chapter One with the Bulglar literally unmasking to Spidey and saying "hey, remember me?" had me reaching for the barf bag. All his work in recent years has been really mediocre and I wouldn't come near his JLA stuff if my life depended on it.

 

I'll just go and remember Byrne as a man who gave me classic stuff from some of my favorite comics and completely erase from my mind anything he's done in the last decade or so.

[Vyce 0]

It's all about motivation. As for why everyone hates Doom Patrol, I'm thinking it's because it is a mighty lame concept in general. It truly is. And I'm sure that propably effects everyone's views on the new series.

Trust me - I've read a few issues of the previous Doom Patrol series (I think version 2 - with the only original DP member being Robotman, who led a team consisting of third-string superhero losers), and it was MUCH better than the shit Byrne is cranking out.

 

I shudder to think how he's going to fuck up The Demon, and I'm not even really a big fan of the character.

[JasonX 0]

Alpha Flight was amazing because he wanted to do a cool Canadian super hero.

Not really. Byrne has long since been on the record towards the fact that he never wanted to do Alpha Flight and that he only did the book as part of a deal he had with Jim Shooter, where Byrne agreed to write/draw Alpha Flight in exchange for Shooter leaving Byrne alone on Fantastic Four.

 

Nowadays Byrne has disowned Alpha Flight and considers it to be a project he wishes he had never done....

[Steviekick 0]

Even still, for a project he did out of spite, his run on Alpha Flight was VERY good.

[converge241 0]

"I don't recall Byrne doing "Fourth World" stuff that much, other than that big DC crossover mini-series. "

 

there was an Orion series and a "Jack Kirby's 4th world" series he was involved with

 

and Byrne's Alpha Flight was the STUFF!!

 

i was so mad when he swapped out to the Hulk (although the Hulk stuff was good as well)

 

my personal favorite byrne stuff (not the best as im not listing the uncanny xmen stuff here)

 

Man of Steel/Superman/Action Comics (so glad i still have all of these)

Fantastic Four (need to get off my ass and finally complete the run)

Alpha Flight

West Coast Avengers (goddamn i LOVE his run on that)

Namor (hey i liked it!)

[Steviekick 0]

His run on Namor was really cool.

[Guest netslob]

It's all about motivation. As for why everyone hates Doom Patrol, I'm thinking it's because it is a mighty lame concept in general. It truly is. And I'm sure that propably effects everyone's views on the new series.

Trust me - I've read a few issues of the previous Doom Patrol series (I think version 2 - with the only original DP member being Robotman, who led a team consisting of third-string superhero losers), and it was MUCH better than the shit Byrne is cranking out.

now, which are you talking about? Vol. 2 was by Paul Kuppenberg in 1988, and Vol. 3 was by Joh Arcudi, in 2001-'02.

 

now, i'm a HUUUGE Doom Patrol mark, have been for years. but even i admit this current series is leaving me cold. essentially, what Byrne and DC did, was reboot the DP, undo all the team's previous history, and brought back the original team from the '60's. not a BAD idea, in theory, but herein lies the problem: all the team's history has been erased. so now, if this series flops (and from reading various reports and opinions, it will), they can't go back and use any elements of any previous incarnations of the team (Kuppenberg's, Grant Morrison's, Rachael Pollack's or Arcudi's) without a shit load of explaining and back-peddling. not to mention this could sour the public on the DP altogether, and no writer would want to touch it for years.

[Vyce 0]

I meant version 3, then.

 

Personally, I found Morrison's take on the series the most compelling.

[Guest MaskedDanger]

Am I the only person who thinks all of Byrne's faces look the same? Every guy has the same head, facial proportions and distinctive jaw (even some of the ladies have hints of the aforementioned jaws). It's like Byrne has his own version of "Liefeld-itis." At least all of Byrne's people look human. Everything else he draws is fine, but that face thing bugs me.

 

And him taking over drawing Superman from Curt Swan? That's a no no. I understand why they made the switch, but, man, what a downshift.

 

As for his writing, it's not my cup of tea. "Generations" I liked, but I avoid everything else of his. It has always seemed a little burned out (or over done) for my tastes. Also, does he really have the imagination to pull off Kirby characters with a Kirby style? Kirby's stuff (especially The Fourth World) is pretty fanciful, and Byrne seems most comfortable in the "heroes are really human on the inside" stuff, so he might inadvertantly take some of the pop out of Kirby's ideas.

[Guest netslob]

I meant version 3, then.

 

Personally, I found Morrison's take on the series the most compelling.

 

much agreed. Morrison's run on DP is probably one of my favorite works ever. i've re-read it half a dozen times, and still catch shit i missed the previous times. damn good work.

 

John Arcudi's version was pretty good in my opinion. cut short waaay too soon. but i guess that's what happens when DC can barely promote the frickin' thing, but can shill the shit out of every measly Batman one-shot they feel the need to shit out every other week.

 

but i digress.

 

Rachael Pollock's version was o.k., nothing to really write home about tho. i think she was trying too hard to keep up the weirdness of Morrison's run, but couldn't quite grasp it, which is ok, Morrison's a tough act to follow (plus Ted McKeever's art didn't help...i couldn't tell what the hell i was looking at half the time). Kuppenberg was seemingly just trying to make the DP into DC's answer to the X-Men. it failed, obviously. Arnold Drake, who created the team in the '60's, was probably the best overall series, if for no other reason then this was his baby, his creation, and he set the precident for all future versions. i suggest picking up the DC Archives hardcovers, Vol. 1 and 2, damn good shit in there, my friend.

[Steviekick 0]

Am I the only person who thinks all of Byrne's faces look the same? Every guy has the same head, facial proportions and distinctive jaw (even some of the ladies have hints of the aforementioned jaws). It's like Byrne has his own version of "Liefeld-itis." At least all of Byrne's people look human. Everything else he draws is fine, but that face thing bugs me.

 

And him taking over drawing Superman from Curt Swan? That's a no no. I understand why they made the switch, but, man, what a downshift.

 

As for his writing, it's not my cup of tea. "Generations" I liked, but I avoid everything else of his. It has always seemed a little burned out (or over done) for my tastes. Also, does he really have the imagination to pull off Kirby characters with a Kirby style? Kirby's stuff (especially The Fourth World) is pretty fanciful, and Byrne seems most comfortable in the "heroes are really human on the inside" stuff, so he might inadvertantly take some of the pop out of Kirby's ideas.

I kinda noticed that, as well. But in classic Greek art, that chin was used on everyone to represent being a hero/nobility. Maybe Byrne's just classical.

[converge241 0]

Morrison's run on Doom Patrol after Larsen changed my comics life (along with other vertigo titles before they were vertigo Sandman and Shade)

 

i totally agree on Rachel's trying to hard on the weirdness..every month i was always like "why am i still buying this?"

[SuperJerk 0]

My only major problem with Byrnes current art is that the lines are too thick and the panels lack detail proportional to their size (the guys has some pretty big panels usually).

[Betty Houle 0]

It's all about motivation. As for why everyone hates Doom Patrol, I'm thinking it's because it is a mighty lame concept in general. It truly is. And I'm sure that propably effects everyone's views on the new series.

Trust me - I've read a few issues of the previous Doom Patrol series (I think version 2 - with the only original DP member being Robotman, who led a team consisting of third-string superhero losers), and it was MUCH better than the shit Byrne is cranking out.

 

I shudder to think how he's going to fuck up The Demon, and I'm not even really a big fan of the character.

Like it or not Byrne's take on Doom Patrol is closest to the original concept as put forth by their creator. I imagine that will be the same with The Demon. And people that aren't familiar with Kirby's The Demon will come out of the woodwork on-line to point out how Byrne got the character "wrong".

[Betty Houle 0]

Alpha Flight was amazing because he wanted to do a cool Canadian super hero.

Not really. Byrne has long since been on the record towards the fact that he never wanted to do Alpha Flight and that he only did the book as part of a deal he had with Jim Shooter, where Byrne agreed to write/draw Alpha Flight in exchange for Shooter leaving Byrne alone on Fantastic Four.

 

Nowadays Byrne has disowned Alpha Flight and considers it to be a project he wishes he had never done....

Try to get your facts straight! From JB's website FAQ:

 

"JB: Alpha Flight (the team) were never really meant to be anything more than a bunch of superheroes who could survive a fight with the X-Men. They had no real depth, and I resisted suggestions that they get their own book for a couple of years. Then, finally, realizing Marvel would probably get someone else to do it, if I didn't, I relented and agreed. (Sidebar: ALPHA FLIGHT #1 was the biggest selling comic of its day -- 500,000 copies!!)

 

Down through the years, a number of Gay fans have approached me to say "thanks" for ALPHA FLIGHT and NorthStar, so I suppose it justifies its existence in that way -- but as a whole, except for a couple of bright moments, the book just never gelled for me, art- or story-wise. (4/4/98) "

[starvenger 0]

OK, so he still doesn't particularly care for it. Still, he's probably tearing his beard out with Lobdell's tongue-in-cheek version of the team...

[Guest HTQ's Personal Bitch]

OK, so he still doesn't particularly care for it. Still, he's probably tearing his beard out with Lobdell's tongue-in-cheek version of the team...

So true. I wince at every relaunch of Alpha Flight. It's no wonder I no longer buy DC or Marvel comics anymore.

[starvenger 0]

BTW, semi-interesting factoid was that Kieron Dwyer is his son. I had no idea...

[Steviekick 0]

BTW, semi-interesting factoid was that Kieron Dwyer is his son. I had no idea...

And who is that?

[starvenger 0]

Another artist. Drew Captain America for a while during the Gruenwald run among other things.

[SuperJerk 0]

BTW, semi-interesting factoid was that Kieron Dwyer is his son. I had no idea...

Who are you saying is Kieron Dwyer's father?