The NHL Lockout

[Guest Mikey2Dope]

So who do you side with?

[razazteca 0]

What are they fighting for?

[Lightning Flik 0]

I am siding slighly with the owners. They need a salary cap of some type in place. That's all I'm agreeing with the owners. Otherwise, both are just greedy bastards.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I always side with the players on these kind of issues. Salary caps are complete nonsense. They do nothing to promote competitive balance. They simply serve to set artificial restrictions on player salaries.

[treble 0]

I'm siding with neither. It's unbelievable that neither side could get together and fix this mess since they've been talking about this for almost 2 years now.

 

The owners are stupid for letting player salaries get out of hand and the players union really pisses me off some times.

 

Although, the graphic TSN made for the lockout is pretty bad-ass.

[the max 0]

I side with the players. It's not their fault that owners throw money around like morons. Here's the top 25 salaried players in the NHL in 2003-04 (courtesy of USAToday.com):

 

Forsberg, Peter $ 11,000,000

Jagr, Jaromir $ 11,000,000

Bure, Pavel $ 10,000,000

Fedorov, Sergei $ 10,000,000

Lidstrom, Nicklas $ 10,000,000

Tkachuk, Keith $ 10,000,000

Sakic, Joe $ 9,880,939

Pronger, Chris $ 9,500,000

Blake, Rob $ 9,326,519

LeClair, John $ 9,000,000

Modano, Mike $ 9,000,000

Sundin, Mats $ 9,000,000

Guerin, Bill $ 8,866,445

Holik, Bobby $ 8,850,000

Weight, Doug $ 8,500,000

Yashin, Alexei $ 8,400,000

Allison, Jason $ 8,000,000

Joseph, Curtis $ 8,000,000

Iginla, Jarome $ 7,500,000

Roenick, Jeremy $ 7,500,000

Turgeon, Pierre $ 7,500,000

Belfour, Ed $ 7,000,000

Palffy, Ziggy $ 7,000,000

Stevens, Scott $ 6,916,747

Brodeur, Martin $ 6,891,103

[Guest GreatOne]

Hey I'm all for players getting market value, key word MARKET. When the *XFL* was outdrawing the NHL on US TV you got problems.

 

What does the following tell you about their 'market'? The lockout will be the most attention the NHL gets.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

When did the XFL outdraw anything outside of the first week? Test patterns could have gotten better ratings.

[Guest GreatOne]

I guess a good comparison would be to take the final 6-7 weeks of the XFL on NBC, which was somewhere around a 1.3-1.7 composite, and put it up to NBC's NHL (if they have it) numbers this year. Going by what ABC got for it the last few years, it's not looking good.

 

I believe more people watched the Million Dollar Game than Ray Bourque's sendoff. That might not be a stretch.............

[the max 0]

From Variety Online who took it from Nielsen Research:

 

(2001)The XFL championship game, which aired April 21 on NBC, fared

miserably in the ratings -- settling for less than half the shares of

what ABC earned with its deciding game of hockey's Stanley Cup

Finals last June:

 

 

 

XFL championship (NBC) 5 6 5 4

Stanley Cup Finals, Game 6 (ABC) 16 15 16 9

 

Source: Nielsen Media Research

[Guest GreatOne]

Fine. Either way it's still not good.

 

Its' average rating the last five years on regular TV has been in the 1's.

 

Look the fact that there's even a debate here tells you that the market just ain't there. The experience of going to the game is one thing, but when the TV ratings aren't there, they ain't there.

[Der Kommissar 0]

I tend to side with owners more than the players, even though I pretty much think that a salary cap isn't be the ultimate cure all to any problems. Unfortunately, the many are ultimately penalized for the mistakes of the few idiotic owners who felt compelled to majorly overpay players. It's too bad.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Salary cap hasn't exactly killed the NFL. If anything, it has made for some awesome parity.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Whats the problem: Too many teams are losing money

 

The solution: These teams need to make money

 

How do we come by this: Luxury Tax

 

 

Who is right: Players

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, its been said that 75% of the losses in the league were by 6 teams. So, another big solution is too contract or move those 6 teams.

 

Its a very simple problem.

[Guest MikeSC]

Honestly, if it wasn't mentioned, I'd have never noticed.

-=Mike

[razazteca 0]

Salary cap hasn't exactly killed the NFL. If anything, it has made for some awesome parity.

The realignment made the parity work in the NFL but in NHL it seems that the change did more damage than good.

 

By the way, its been said that 75% of the losses in the league were by 6 teams. So, another big solution is too contract or move those 6 teams.

What teams are they?

[Red Baron 0]

Luxury tax will never work in a Sport like the NHL, because the only teams that would get hit by them, are Toronto, Detroit, Dallas, New Jersey, Colorado and St. Louis. It doesn't even work in baseball, so how can a failed system work in a struggling league?

 

Salary Cap is needed and it should be at $35 million, and yes it would become a parity, but nothing like the NFL. Most of the teams in the NHL, barely break 40 million, let alone 35, and yet still competitive, and they don't have superstar players on everyline.

 

The sad thing is that, the NHL does not market the players, to grab the attention. They say "The fastest game in sport," or some stupid cliche, meanwhile they should market players like St. Louis, Doan, Heatley, Hejduk, Brodeur, Theodore, Luongo, etc...

 

The average american only knows players like Greztky, Lemeiux, Yzerman, Modano, Roenick, Bure, Jagr, and thats about it.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I dont see how the NHL could afford to lose a whole season over this given the sinking ratings and attendence figures.

 

The NHL probably does need to contract a bunch of teams though. The last couple rounds of Expansion really hurt.

 

By the way, its been said that 75% of the losses in the league were by 6 teams. So, another big solution is too contract or move those 6 teams.

 

What teams are they?

 

One of them had to be the Capitals..and I don't think anyone would miss them if they did fold/move.

[Red Baron 0]

Yes because expanding into places who had no idea what hockey is, is considered smart...

 

Lets move a team that has been moved before, and make a new stadium, and called them the Thrashers.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Salary cap hasn't exactly killed the NFL. If anything, it has made for some awesome parity.

The Salary Cap works in the NFL so well because of the Billion doallar TV deal. And I will bet you my house the players will strike next time around in the NFL Because they are getting raped by the owners.

[iggymcfly 0]

I certainly know I'm in the minority here, but I think the salary cap has hurt the NFL. Not in ratings, money, etc., but just in entertainment value. There's no consistency from year to year, and it really gets kind of hard to care who wins. It seems like the last time the Super Bowl really "mattered" in the long-term was when Denver won.

 

With that being said, the NHL does need some drastic changes. They're getting comparable salaries with the other "Big 3" when the interest and the money they draw aren't even close. I don't know if a salary cap's the answer, but I can certainly see why the owners would lockout the players.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Luxury tax will never work in a Sport like the NHL, because the only teams that would get hit by them, are Toronto, Detroit, Dallas, New Jersey, Colorado and St. Louis. It doesn't even work in baseball, so how can a failed system work in a struggling league?

 

Salary Cap is needed and it should be at $35 million, and yes it would become a parity, but nothing like the NFL. Most of the teams in the NHL, barely break 40 million, let alone 35, and yet still competitive, and they don't have superstar players on everyline.

 

The sad thing is that, the NHL does not market the players, to grab the attention. They say "The fastest game in sport," or some stupid cliche, meanwhile they should market players like St. Louis, Doan, Heatley, Hejduk, Brodeur, Theodore, Luongo, etc...

 

The average american only knows players like Greztky, Lemeiux, Yzerman, Modano, Roenick, Bure, Jagr, and thats about it.

Actually, it is working in the MLB. See the Twins. Their payroll is almost double since 2 years ago.

 

And a Luxury Tax at 40 mill (which the players would accept) would penilize 40% of the teams, easy

[Guest Rrrsh]

I dont see how the NHL could afford to lose a whole season over this given the sinking ratings and attendence figures.

 

The NHL probably does need to contract a bunch of teams though. The last couple rounds of Expansion really hurt.

 

By the way, its been said that 75% of the losses in the league were by 6 teams. So, another big solution is too contract or move those 6 teams.

 

What teams are they?

 

One of them had to be the Capitals..and I don't think anyone would miss them if they did fold/move.

I believe the teams are Carolina, Pittsburg, Washignton, Florida, Pheniox and 1 more I cant remember.

 

 

Maybe its Anahiem

[Guest GreatOne]

Salary cap hasn't exactly killed the NFL. If anything, it has made for some awesome parity.

The Salary Cap works in the NFL so well because of the Billion doallar TV deal. And I will bet you my house the players will strike next time around in the NFL Because they are getting raped by the owners.

They're just about to extend the labor deal (which they've done repeatedly the last few years), and I don't exactly think you can say Peyton Manning or TO's gotten raped here.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

I dont see how the NHL could afford to lose a whole season over this given the sinking ratings and attendence figures. 

 

The NHL probably does need to contract a bunch of teams though.  The last couple rounds of Expansion really hurt.

 

By the way, its been said that 75% of the losses in the league were by 6 teams. So, another big solution is too contract or move those 6 teams.

 

What teams are they?

 

One of them had to be the Capitals..and I don't think anyone would miss them if they did fold/move.

I believe the teams are Carolina, Pittsburg, Washignton, Florida, Pheniox and 1 more I cant remember.

 

 

Maybe its Anahiem

Disney spent a lot of money on the team after the Ducks Cup run and since they did not make it to the playoffs, obviously they lost money. The Ducks during their playoff run made $30 million. Most of that money was moved to cover the loses of Downtown Disney. "shudders"

 

Also, NHL Attendance for the last 3 or 4 years

[Highland 0]

Neither side.

 

That being said, I feel no sympathy for the owners whatsoever. I doesn't matter how much any player makes, it's nothing compared to what the teams make, even considering paying their player's salaries. The positive I can see to this lockout is perhaps some of the weaker teams like Carolina will finally fold.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Luxury tax will never work in a Sport like the NHL, because the only teams that would get hit by them, are Toronto, Detroit, Dallas, New Jersey, Colorado and St. Louis. It doesn't even work in baseball, so how can a failed system work in a struggling league?

 

Salary Cap is needed and it should be at $35 million, and yes it would become a parity, but nothing like the NFL. Most of the teams in the NHL, barely break 40 million, let alone 35, and yet still competitive, and they don't have superstar players on everyline.

 

The sad thing is that, the NHL does not market the players, to grab the attention. They say "The fastest game in sport," or some stupid cliche, meanwhile they should market players like St. Louis, Doan, Heatley, Hejduk, Brodeur, Theodore, Luongo, etc...

 

The average american only knows players like Greztky, Lemeiux, Yzerman, Modano, Roenick, Bure, Jagr, and thats about it.

Time to chime in on as many issues as I can here.

 

Add NY Rangers in the "greedy bastards" list. They have the top two contracts (Jagr and Bure), they just don't win. With New Jersey being 8th in the league in 2003 with around a $51 million payroll, I think it's safe to say that all the praise of Lou Lamoriello building winning teams on low budgets is horseshit. That being said, I don't think the luxury tax would work, because as we see in baseball, it doesn't stop the Yankees one bit.

 

Salary cap, also a failure waiting to happen, big time. The parity would not be beneficial to the league at all, because it would destroy the credibility of the established teams. I mean, I hate the Red Wings as much as the next guy, but I think I'd actually hate them even LESS if because of salary restrictions, they couldn't field their traditional all-star teams, but instead just had to send out a bunch of crappy fourth-line caliber grinders from eastern Europe that nobody knows nor cares about. Detroit, Denver, Dallas, St. Louis, and Toronto may spend like crazy, but guess what? Their fans go to games! They support their team! Let's not destroy that rare commodity.

 

As for the players that everyone knows, I don't even think it's that many. I'd say your guy on the street only knows Gretzky (who hasn't played in five years), Lemieux (who hasn't played a real season in five years), and Brett Hull (who hasn't stopped bitching for five years). Maybe you can make a case for Chris Chelios and Jaromir Jagr, I don't know. But it can't be more than that. They should market a lot of these new players you mentioned, except Dany Heatley, because he, y'know, kills people.

 

In fact, marketing as a whole just sucks. You remember those commercials for the NBA Finals with all the players professing their love for that hideous trophy that looks like some out-of-proportion martini? Why the HELL did they not do that for the Stanley Cup? Did they do it years ago, and I missed it somewhere along the line? I think you need something as surreal as let's say, Jaromir Jagr singing Dusty Springfield's "I Only Want To Be With You" to the Stanley Cup, or Eric Lindros having phone sex with the Cup in which the camera cuts between Eric on the phone telling Lord Stanley's Cup all the things he's gonna do to her(him? it?), and then cutting to the Cup next to a phone. These things are really weird, but would get noticed, especially because European players trying to talk can be funny. Hockey players have some of the most interesting and eccentric personalities of all athletes. Let's find ways to use them. You can't say it's the "fastest game in sport," because, well, we all know the story here.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Parity in the NFL isn't just the salary cap. It's the amateur draft, short schedule, and the fact that you can simply cut whoever the hell you want. We'd have more parity in MLB if teams could cut guys like Mo Vaughn, but that is such a terribly one-sided system that it boggles the mind. The NFL Players' Union is pussy-whipped. The NFL makes billions each year, and the players get a fraction of it.

 

Look at the NBA. The salary cap is a failure in terms of competitive balance. The mechanism that most controls team quality is not free agency, it is the system in which new players enter the league. In the NHL, it is the amateur draft. Keep that in place, and half the battle is won.

 

I have a hard time believing owners are getting raked on player salaries. This is not an era of private ownership anymore. The vast majority of teams are run by corporations, and these people are not stupid. It's simple. Estimate your profits, set a payroll, and stay within that payroll. But the owners can't manage this without a salary cap? It's nonsense. Salary caps are a waste of everyone's time, except the greedy owners who still think its 1804.

[CanadianChris 0]

Parity in the NFL isn't just the salary cap. It's the amateur draft, short schedule, and the fact that you can simply cut whoever the hell you want. We'd have more parity in MLB if teams could cut guys like Mo Vaughn, but that is such a terribly one-sided system that it boggles the mind. The NFL Players' Union is pussy-whipped. The NFL makes billions each year, and the players get a fraction of it.

Yes, and that fraction is somewhere between "five-eighths" and "two-thirds." Let's not pretend that the players are being taken advantage of here.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Given that a playoff team a while back had trouble making payroll due to the American-Canadian exchange rate, I don't it's unreasonable to have some kind of limitation on team salary.

 

Now, I'm not a financial genius, so ignore me if salary caps do this anyway, but why not do this: why not have a salary cap, but have it increase every three years in accordance with inflation rates?