Is WWE still entertaining?

[Guest bigm350]

I just can't really recall a more stale WWE product than right now. Sure, its been stale for quite a while but both Raw and SD have been biting the meat missile for quite some time. We know the reasons why; HHH still at the top; Orton getting a huge push despite not really being over. SD with Taker and Kurt using their backstage pull to stay at the top; edging Eddie out of the ME scene and Cena still not in the main event picture, despite being one of SD's top faces.

 

WM XX really seemed to show that the WWE was going in a new direction but now we're back to the same level of stagnation that was present before WM. Will it get better, or worse?

[Guest wildpegasus]

It's not entertaining as a whole. But there are bits and parts which are. Wrestling is its own thing really. It's similar to the news in the sense that it's divided up in sections so while you may like the first segment you may not like the 4th though with wrestling the segments are more connected to each other than the news and that's something that can tie people in for the whole wrestling show. No TV shows or sports are the same as wrestling really. You don't watch 4 different episodes of CSI is one show. It's all one show. With sports you don't watch 4 different sports games during one game. It's all the same game. Boxing would be similar to wrestling in that you have different matches or segments but even than I find you have more concentration on a couple things as compared to a lot more things in wrestling to occupy your attention. The UFC would be the most similar to wrestling in that you can really pick and choose what you want to watch.

 

So than you'll have that one or two segments that keep you watching (Benoit for me, Bret Hart in the past) even if you hate all the other segments in the show. That part of the show is entertaining.

[Guest bigm350]

You make some very good points WP. To me though, it seems alot of the segments blend together and nothing really stands out.

[Guest Real F'n Show]

Wrestling has been far worse in the past then it is now. Both Smackdown and Raw are entertaining me, and although more storyline oriented then actual wrestling, WWE is doing a decent job showcasing most of there talent. Both Charlie Haas and Paul London are getting decent TV time, and I see both as future main eventers.

 

Plus, at least nobody is fucking dead bodies anymore...

[BHK 0]

No.

 

However, it's going to be quite a while before WWE goes under.

[Steviekick 0]

I guess I'd have to say yes. I am usually content after watching Raw as of late, but I can't sit through more than a half hour of Smackdown.

[UZI Suicide 0]

I'm still entertained, not to the extent I used to be, but still entertained.

[JoeDirt 0]

The funny thing is that the actual wrestling content is FAR better now than it was when wrestling was "hot", like in 1999 when you had horrible old men in WCW and Russo booking tons of 1-2 minutes matches in the WWF. I think this just goes to show that the most important thing for shows like RAW and Smackdown is finding a way to make the fans, whether casual or smarks, care about the characters they are watching. There just isn't the connection now with 99% of the characters. Do you think Austin would have gotten over as much if he just came out and wrestled every week and never talked on the mic, beat up everyone in his path, did that segment with Vince where he came out in the suit and tie, etc? There has to be SOME creativity in making good storylines, feuds, and creating interesting characters. That's what makes people buy the pay per views, not the anticipation of seeing Eddie Guerrero and Kurt Angle wrestle a mat classic.

[Guest bigm350]

The funny thing is that the actual wrestling content is FAR better now than it was when wrestling was "hot", like in 1999 when you had horrible old men in WCW and Russo booking tons of 1-2 minutes matches in the WWF. I think this just goes to show that the most important thing for shows like RAW and Smackdown is finding a way to make the fans, whether casual or smarks, care about the characters they are watching. There just isn't the connection now with 99% of the characters. Do you think Austin would have gotten over as much if he just came out and wrestled every week and never talked on the mic, beat up everyone in his path, did that segment with Vince where he came out in the suit and tie, etc? There has to be SOME creativity in making good storylines, feuds, and creating interesting characters. That's what makes people buy the pay per views, not the anticipation of seeing Eddie Guerrero and Kurt Angle wrestle a mat classic.

Bingo. That's what is missing IMO. Characters that fans care about and want to see win.

[SuperJerk 0]

The funny thing is that the actual wrestling content is FAR better now than it was when wrestling was "hot", like in 1999 when you had horrible old men in WCW and Russo booking tons of 1-2 minutes matches in the WWF. I think this just goes to show that the most important thing for shows like RAW and Smackdown is finding a way to make the fans, whether casual or smarks, care about the characters they are watching. There just isn't the connection now with 99% of the characters. Do you think Austin would have gotten over as much if he just came out and wrestled every week and never talked on the mic, beat up everyone in his path, did that segment with Vince where he came out in the suit and tie, etc? There has to be SOME creativity in making good storylines, feuds, and creating interesting characters. That's what makes people buy the pay per views, not the anticipation of seeing Eddie Guerrero and Kurt Angle wrestle a mat classic.

Bingo. That's what is missing IMO. Characters that fans care about and want to see win.

Actually, I think he was talking about having better angles, not just stars.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You don't watch 4 different episodes of CSI is one show.

 

CSI usually has an A story and a B story, sometimes a C story.

 

I am finding it very hard to motivate myself to watch the WWE. It's an accumulation of 3 years of bad storylines, bad characters, bad writing, bad feuds, bad... everything. It isn't one big blow that takes your interest away, but rather, a bunch of small ones. I find it all so very boring. They haven't changed anything - the music is the same, the announcers are the same, the set is the same, the storylines are the same, the matches are the same, the guys on top are the same (even if there is a new guy like Orton on top, he's still playing the same role that everyone else has), even them trying to "spice it up" with Taboo Tuesday feels the same (their constant, incredibly forced, shilling). I am getting very, very tired of it. CHANGE IT UP.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

The problem is, RRR, they won't change it up until they see it REALLY hurting them. They are getting constant 3.4s or so in the ratings...same as they have for pretty much the last 2-3 years.

 

Now, I don't know WHY they aren't trying to push to really raise that number, but as long as they are showing nice profits, it doesn't seem to bother them if they completely and utterly screw up.

 

If I was in Vince's shoes, or in the shoes of one of the other higher ups, I would ALWAYS be looking for ways to improve, always, but to them it seems improvement is more a chore and less a goal to strive for.

[SuperJerk 0]

WWE was pretty good during the build up for Wrestlemania XX, except for the Brock/Austin feud.

 

I found Raw very entertaining when Benoit was champ, for some reason. Maybe because it wasn't the "Watch HHH Bury People" show for those five months.

[what 0]

SD with Taker and Kurt using their backstage pull to stay at the top; edging Eddie out of the ME scene and Cena still not in the main event picture, despite being one of SD's top faces.

 

Eddie's been breaking down lately and Cena's as stale as ever. SmackDown sucks because of shitty booking. As does Raw. Not because "Triple H is around" or "Kurt and UT are around". The booking is just horrible. It seems to be improving lately on Smackdown though.

[JoeDirt 0]

The funny thing is that the actual wrestling content is FAR better now than it was when wrestling was "hot", like in 1999 when you had horrible old men in WCW and Russo booking tons of 1-2 minutes matches in the WWF. I think this just goes to show that the most important thing for shows like RAW and Smackdown is finding a way to make the fans, whether casual or smarks, care about the characters they are watching. There just isn't the connection now with 99% of the characters. Do you think Austin would have gotten over as much if he just came out and wrestled every week and never talked on the mic, beat up everyone in his path, did that segment with Vince where he came out in the suit and tie, etc? There has to be SOME creativity in making good storylines, feuds, and creating interesting characters. That's what makes people buy the pay per views, not the anticipation of seeing Eddie Guerrero and Kurt Angle wrestle a mat classic.

Bingo. That's what is missing IMO. Characters that fans care about and want to see win.

Actually, I think he was talking about having better angles, not just stars.

It's both, really. You have to have guys who can do the job and bring a charisma to the table that guys like Austin or Rock did. Did anyone think in early 1997 when Rocky Maivia was getting booed like hell as a babyface that he'd turn into a huge movie star? Of course not. I'm sure there are people on the roster who could do great if given a chance to succeed. Probably not at the levels of the Rock, but they wouldn't have to. Just give some people the ball and let them run with it, and don't bog them down with horrible gimmicks or storylines.

 

I remember watching the Monday Night Wars DVD and Jim Cornette saying that with guys like Austin and Rock, the best stars' characters are just exaggerations of their true personalities. But now we're getting forced shitty gimmicks like Eugene and Simon Dean, we have too many cliched "America haters" like Dupree, Kenzo, La Resistance, these new Arab guys coming in, the cliched gay guy Rico, who has nothing done to get his character over in a way that Goldust ever did, Mordecai getting dumped as a character because Fertig was nowhere near being ready for the WWE, Carlito Caribbean Cool, and so much more.

 

There is no edge to the product...there is no realism to it. Why should I care who wins the Guerrero/Reigns match on No Mercy tonight? Hell, why should I cheer the Big Show over Kurt Angle, when Big Show tried to KILL Angle just a few months ago? It's non-sensical. Like Rudo said, it feels like you're being force fed shilled crap.

[Guest bigm350]

The funny thing is that the actual wrestling content is FAR better now than it was when wrestling was "hot", like in 1999 when you had horrible old men in WCW and Russo booking tons of 1-2 minutes matches in the WWF. I think this just goes to show that the most important thing for shows like RAW and Smackdown is finding a way to make the fans, whether casual or smarks, care about the characters they are watching. There just isn't the connection now with 99% of the characters. Do you think Austin would have gotten over as much if he just came out and wrestled every week and never talked on the mic, beat up everyone in his path, did that segment with Vince where he came out in the suit and tie, etc? There has to be SOME creativity in making good storylines, feuds, and creating interesting characters. That's what makes people buy the pay per views, not the anticipation of seeing Eddie Guerrero and Kurt Angle wrestle a mat classic.

Bingo. That's what is missing IMO. Characters that fans care about and want to see win.

Actually, I think he was talking about having better angles, not just stars.

Yeah, angles too. Stars and angles go hand in hand with entertaining wrestling.

[Slayer 0]

One of my problems is the now now now rush of the potentially good storylines. Orton went from Evo member to world champion to not-Evo member in the course of 24 hours, and then to not-world champion in a month. Conceivably the storyline could have gone on for a good while longer than that, but the WWE felt the need to rush rush rush it and it lost a lot of potential impact.

 

Or when a thrown-together tag team breaks up only a month after being created and they expect fans to care about the breakup and whichever members turn heel/face... the Rockers break-up, it's not.

 

Ironically, of course, it seems the worst storylines (Test-Steiner, Torrie-Dawn) are the ones allowed to go on forever

 

Another one is when horrible inconsistencies come up in storylines... I'm not talking nitpicky type things, but egregious things like when all the Divas inexplicably dropped their feuds/hatred of each other to unite against the Diva contestants

[Guest bigm350]

One of my problems is the now now now rush of the potentially good storylines. Orton went from Evo member to world champion to not-Evo member in the course of 24 hours, and then to not-world champion in a month. Conceivably the storyline could have gone on for a good while longer than that, but the WWE felt the need to rush rush rush it and it lost a lot of potential impact.

 

Or when a thrown-together tag team breaks up only a month after being created and they expect fans to care about the breakup and whichever members turn heel/face... the Rockers break-up, it's not.

 

Ironically, of course, it seems the worst storylines (Test-Steiner, Torrie-Dawn) are the ones allowed to go on forever

 

Another one is when horrible inconsistencies come up in storylines... I'm not talking nitpicky type things, but egregious things like when all the Divas inexplicably dropped their feuds/hatred of each other to unite against the Diva contestants

Good points. But then again, how do we know that Orton will be over enough by WM to warrant a title shot at the biggest event of the year? It seems that he isn't really over now and creating a slow burn until Mania might not go over good with the audience. Yeah, it'll probably be Orton vs HHH at WM 21 but maybe they tested the waters early to see how the fans would gauge Orton being a main eventer. Judging by how the fans don't really care about him now, maybe the WWE will go in a different direction around the Rumble.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I found Raw very entertaining when Benoit was champ, for some reason. Maybe because it wasn't the "Watch HHH Bury People" show for those five months.

 

It... wasn't?

 

And it is hurting the WWE, it just isn't hurting Vince.

[SuperJerk 0]

They already have good characters, especially on Smackdown, but they get wasted in boring angles.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

They don't have good characters.

 

There isn't a single well-developed character in the WWE. Not one. Of course, I am comparing this to the television shows I normally watch rather than using "wrestling standards". And guess what? That's the competition for the WWE now.

[Guest bigm350]

They already have good characters, especially on Smackdown, but they get wasted in boring angles.

What good characters are on SD right now? Also, Raw for that matter?

[The Amazing Rando 0]

One of my problems is the now now now rush of the potentially good storylines.  Orton went from Evo member to world champion to not-Evo member in the course of 24 hours, and then to not-world champion in a month. Conceivably the storyline could have gone on for a good while longer than that, but the WWE felt the need to rush rush rush it and it lost a lot of potential impact. 

 

Or when a thrown-together tag team breaks up only a month after being created and they expect fans to care about the breakup and whichever members turn heel/face... the Rockers break-up, it's not.

 

Ironically, of course, it seems the worst storylines (Test-Steiner, Torrie-Dawn) are the ones allowed to go on forever

 

Another one is when horrible inconsistencies come up in storylines... I'm not talking nitpicky type things, but egregious things like when all the Divas inexplicably dropped their feuds/hatred of each other to unite against the Diva contestants

Good points. But then again, how do we know that Orton will be over enough by WM to warrant a title shot at the biggest event of the year? It seems that he isn't really over now and creating a slow burn until Mania might not go over good with the audience. Yeah, it'll probably be Orton vs HHH at WM 21 but maybe they tested the waters early to see how the fans would gauge Orton being a main eventer. Judging by how the fans don't really care about him now, maybe the WWE will go in a different direction around the Rumble.

If they are basing the entire future of Randy Orton on one championship win that really shouldn't have happened...then you are insane.

 

Randy Orton is the future of the company unless he REALLY fucks up. He is a WWE created star and Vince isn't going to let his judgement of pushing the guy be thrown back in his face, cause he's Vince McMahon Dammit.

 

 

JBL got NOTHING when he won the belt, but oddly enough he still has it.

 

Orton as a Main Eventer is something that we are going to have to get used to, and I still think that the guy has the potential to really blow us away. I never thought that with Brock and he showed otherwise, and I *know* Orton can do it, he's just not at the level he needs to be at...yet.

 

But soon he will be.

[what 0]

They already have good characters, especially on Smackdown, but they get wasted in boring angles.

What good characters are on SD right now? Also, Raw for that matter?

JBL is about all I can think of.

[Guest Coffey]

Well, to me, I'm enjoying a lot of things on Raw. Granted I'll never agree with EVERYTHING, but I like the way that things are starting to look. I like Triple H with the title, as, personally, I wasn't a fan of Benoit's reign. I like how Batista, Randy Orton, Christian & even La Résistance are looking. I could do without all the GM drama and the Lita/Kane shit, but I'm liking the matches with Jericho, Christian, Evolution, etc. and I'm getting a lot of WRESTLING. Even if it's just in the main event, that's more WRESTLING, actual WRESTLING than I'm used to seeing on Raw.

 

I wasn't happy with the Diva stuff. I'm not happy with the women's division. The tag team scene desperately needs more teams, we could see more people at the top of the card too.

 

Now, though, the Diva contest is over. We still have, apparently, some shit coming forth from it, but the actual tournament is over. The women's division is still slop, but at least Trish has got better. The tag scene is the pits, but I like La Résistance, and The Hurricane is back on television. That's something at least, right?

 

There is positives, for me, for each negative. That's something to keep me enticed. At least for now. It's free to watch, and I don't have anything else to do with the time if the Monday Night Football game is bad, so I can't complain. Could it be better? Of course. Could it be worse? A lot.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

They don't have good characters.

 

There isn't a single well-developed character in the WWE. Not one. Of course, I am comparing this to the television shows I normally watch rather than using "wrestling standards". And guess what? That's the competition for the WWE now.

This is my biggest pet peeve of the WWE. They have the chances to make characters really deep and well-developed, and they waste it on Kane, whose continuity is so screwed up it is beyond help.

[Guest bigm350]

One of my problems is the now now now rush of the potentially good storylines.  Orton went from Evo member to world champion to not-Evo member in the course of 24 hours, and then to not-world champion in a month. Conceivably the storyline could have gone on for a good while longer than that, but the WWE felt the need to rush rush rush it and it lost a lot of potential impact. 

 

Or when a thrown-together tag team breaks up only a month after being created and they expect fans to care about the breakup and whichever members turn heel/face... the Rockers break-up, it's not.

 

Ironically, of course, it seems the worst storylines (Test-Steiner, Torrie-Dawn) are the ones allowed to go on forever

 

Another one is when horrible inconsistencies come up in storylines... I'm not talking nitpicky type things, but egregious things like when all the Divas inexplicably dropped their feuds/hatred of each other to unite against the Diva contestants

Good points. But then again, how do we know that Orton will be over enough by WM to warrant a title shot at the biggest event of the year? It seems that he isn't really over now and creating a slow burn until Mania might not go over good with the audience. Yeah, it'll probably be Orton vs HHH at WM 21 but maybe they tested the waters early to see how the fans would gauge Orton being a main eventer. Judging by how the fans don't really care about him now, maybe the WWE will go in a different direction around the Rumble.

If they are basing the entire future of Randy Orton on one championship win that really shouldn't have happened...then you are insane.

 

Randy Orton is the future of the company unless he REALLY fucks up. He is a WWE created star and Vince isn't going to let his judgement of pushing the guy be thrown back in his face, cause he's Vince McMahon Dammit.

 

 

JBL got NOTHING when he won the belt, but oddly enough he still has it.

 

Orton as a Main Eventer is something that we are going to have to get used to, and I still think that the guy has the potential to really blow us away. I never thought that with Brock and he showed otherwise, and I *know* Orton can do it, he's just not at the level he needs to be at...yet.

 

But soon he will be.

I know Orton will always be a Main eventer in WWE-land. But I don't see this potential that you speak of, Rando. All I see is a cheap, wannabe carbon copy of the Rock.Oh, and a sensible main eventer.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

My biggest pet peeve is their shitty wrestling style. They aren't wrestling, they're -at best- pretending to pretend. That's why I like Benoit, at least when he's wrestling I know something in there is real.

[Toxxic 0]

their constant, incredibly forced, shilling

When you live in the UK, THEN you can complain about constant, forced shilling. Every second match on Raw or Smackdown, you get this horrible, HORRIBLE recording of JR, sounding like he's reading off a card and translating from German as he goes it sounds so stilted and unnatural and emotionless, giving us the following:

 

"Fans in the UK. Get ready to see WWE Raw and WWE Smackdown in a way you have never seen them before. They are coming at you live from the Manchester Evening News Arena in Manchester, England (OF COURSE THE MANCHESTER EVENING NEWS ARENA IS IN MANCHESTER!) on Monday 10th and Tuesday 11th October. These shows are now sold out (SO WHY BOTHER TELLING US? ARE THE PEOPLE WITH TICKETS TO DUMB TO REMEMBER THE DATES?). And don't forget the Smackdown Down 'n' Dirty Tour that is also taking place in October from The Oddysey Arena in Belfast, Northern Ireland, the Nottingham Arena in Nottingham, England (OF COURSE THE NOTTINGHAM ARENA IS IN NOTTINGHAM, AND OF COURSE NOTTINGHAM IS IN ENGLAND YOU SENILE PIECE OF SHIT, IT'S OUR FUCKING COUNTRY AFTER ALL!) and [another place I can't remember]. We hope you will join us there, live."

 

This takes up half the Hurricane match. And half the Christian match. And half the Jericho match (assuming they're separate).

 

And this has been going on since JUNE.

 

And once they've gone, we'll have a two week break before he starts shilling, in the exact same voice that makes me want to reach through my TV and strangle him, Uprising in the Manchester Evening News Arena in Manchester, England... in March.

 

THAT is constant, incredibly forced shilling.

[Guest Shoes Head]

WWE is not entertaining to me at all anymore, probably because of the return to the punch, kick, punch WWE style more than anything. Case in point was last year's Cena v.s. Brock match. It was nice to see two new faces in the Smackdown! main event, but the match was chinlock, punch, kick, suplex, chinlock.

 

Wrestling storylines and writing has always been piss poor, but what makes it even less entertaining in WWE today is that every....last....single storyline has been done before - recently. I believe 7-year-recycling is acceptable, but they're rehashing Evil Owner v.s. DTA Face every month.

 

Promos are also at an all time lowpoint because workers without charisma are being scripted to talk, and the scripts they are given consist of "I'll kick your ASS," and nothing else. I've stopped watchin the product entirely except for mixed-brand PPV's where only the top workers get matches.