WCW facts, tidbits, and stuff people forgot

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

On the preshow for WW3 in 98, Scott Norton vs Booker T for the IWGP title was announced as one of the matches, but never happened.  Why was this?

I know at one point WCW wanted a Norton v Van Hammer, I think, IWGP Title match for Starrcade, and that got cancelled, I'm guessing for the same reason as this match did, because New Japan didn't want to sully the IWGP Title with a match against someone it felt was many levels beneath the title.

Do you think the problem with WCW booking a DQ finish in an IWGP Tag Title match where, apparently, Bulldog & Neidhart won the Tag Titles from Chono & somebody (might have been Mutoh) would've played a role? That happened in 1998, I believe. I assumed NJPW was livid.

-=Mike

Chono and whoever it was could have squashed Bulldog and Anvil in 3 seconds, it wouldn't have mattered. In no universe is Van Hammer on the level of someone who should get an IWGP Title shot.

[Guest MikeSC]

BTW, HTQ, maybe you can explain this:

 

Why the hell did Liger go along with the asinine booking of his WCW appearances in late 1999?

-=Mike

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

BTW, HTQ, maybe you can explain this:

 

Why the hell did Liger go along with the asinine booking of his WCW appearances in late 1999?

-=Mike

At a guess, I'd say it was because WCW, and therefore Russo, was in charge of whatever he did, and Liger, despite hating it with a passion, and he did, didn't want to rock the boat and reluctantly did what he was told. I don't think he wanted to risk the New Japan/WCW relationship, though I don't think it would have mattered anyway, because I don't think they had much of a relationship after that.

 

The whole bullshit impacted New Japan a little, I think, because the next January Dome Show saw Liger beat Kanemoto in less than four minutes, which I believe was done to rehab the title after what went down in WCW.

[JMFabiano524 0]

About the Sasaki/OMG match being edited into a title change...if we count the Crockett/NWA days, didn't they do this to switch the tag titles back from Rude/Fernandez to the Rock 'n' Roll Express (as Rude jumped to the WWF at the time)? Weird considering that I remember them doing an interview with Manny and Paul Jones, where they gave Rude's half of the tag team titles to Ivan Koloff.

 

Started reading this thread from the beginning, so don't know if anyone answered the Asya's debut question. Well she first appeared in the infamous "Ric Flair in the insane asylum" skits. As a play on Arn's nickname, I think she was called "Double D" or some breast-related joke. (I do remember the random loon Flair called "Triple A")

 

Now here's one for you...do you remember when Davey Boy Smith was being pushed in 1993, and they showed some match with him and I think Vinnie Vegas or Big Sky from WCW's UK tour? The match itself wasn't memorable...what was memorable was what I think I recalled from it: Eric Bischoff doing the commentary with a fake British accent! Did this really happen?

 

Edit: I found the WWE version of this thread...there was an ECW one too?

[LessonInMachismo 0]

On the preshow for WW3 in 98, Scott Norton vs Booker T for the IWGP title was announced as one of the matches, but never happened.  Why was this?

I know at one point WCW wanted a Norton v Van Hammer, I think, IWGP Title match for Starrcade, and that got cancelled, I'm guessing for the same reason as this match did, because New Japan didn't want to sully the IWGP Title with a match against someone it felt was many levels beneath the title.

Do you think the problem with WCW booking a DQ finish in an IWGP Tag Title match where, apparently, Bulldog & Neidhart won the Tag Titles from Chono & somebody (might have been Mutoh) would've played a role? That happened in 1998, I believe. I assumed NJPW was livid.

-=Mike

Masahiro Chono & Hiroyoshi Tenzan [2] 96/07/16 Sapporo

Tatsumi Fujinami & Kengo Kimura [4] 97/01/04 Tokyo

Riki Choshu & Kensuke Sasaki 97/04/12 Tokyo

Satoshi Kojima & Manabu Nakanishi 97/05/03 Osaka

Kensuke Sasaki & Kazuo Yamazaki 97/08/10 Nagoya

Keiji Mutoh & Masahiro Chono [2] 97/10/19 Kobe

Vacate on 98/05/07 because of Mutoh's knee surgery.

Masahiro Chono & Hiroyoshi Tenzan [3] 98/06/05 Tokyo

Defeat Gen'ichiro Tenryu & Shiro Koshinaka in 6-team tournament final.

Gen'ichiro Tenryu & Shiro Koshinaka 98/07/15 Sapporo

Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima 99/01/04

 

Apparently, NJPW didn't take this alleged win too seriously, as I don't see Neidhart and Smith up there.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

BTW, HTQ, maybe you can explain this:

 

Why the hell did Liger go along with the asinine booking of his WCW appearances in late 1999?

            -=Mike

At a guess, I'd say it was because WCW, and therefore Russo, was in charge of whatever he did, and Liger, despite hating it with a passion, and he did, didn't want to rock the boat and reluctantly did what he was told. I don't think he wanted to risk the New Japan/WCW relationship, though I don't think it would have mattered anyway, because I don't think they had much of a relationship after that.

 

The whole bullshit impacted New Japan a little, I think, because the next January Dome Show saw Liger beat Kanemoto in less than four minutes, which I believe was done to rehab the title after what went down in WCW.

By "bullshit" do you guys mean the way the title was devalued from a certain point of view?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

BTW, HTQ, maybe you can explain this:

 

Why the hell did Liger go along with the asinine booking of his WCW appearances in late 1999?

             -=Mike

At a guess, I'd say it was because WCW, and therefore Russo, was in charge of whatever he did, and Liger, despite hating it with a passion, and he did, didn't want to rock the boat and reluctantly did what he was told. I don't think he wanted to risk the New Japan/WCW relationship, though I don't think it would have mattered anyway, because I don't think they had much of a relationship after that.

 

The whole bullshit impacted New Japan a little, I think, because the next January Dome Show saw Liger beat Kanemoto in less than four minutes, which I believe was done to rehab the title after what went down in WCW.

By "bullshit" do you guys mean the way the title was devalued from a certain point of view?

Not just that, but Liger took it personally too, because he felt that being assoicated with the whole racist element of the title change to Juvi demeaned both him, the title, and, to a lesser extent, New Japan. Hence the sub-4 minute over Kanemoto, which was undoubtedly meant to take people's minds off the fiasco, by firmly reminding people Liger was a dominant jr heavyweight wrestler, which restored some credibility to all concerned.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

BTW, HTQ, maybe you can explain this:

 

Why the hell did Liger go along with the asinine booking of his WCW appearances in late 1999?

             -=Mike

At a guess, I'd say it was because WCW, and therefore Russo, was in charge of whatever he did, and Liger, despite hating it with a passion, and he did, didn't want to rock the boat and reluctantly did what he was told. I don't think he wanted to risk the New Japan/WCW relationship, though I don't think it would have mattered anyway, because I don't think they had much of a relationship after that.

 

The whole bullshit impacted New Japan a little, I think, because the next January Dome Show saw Liger beat Kanemoto in less than four minutes, which I believe was done to rehab the title after what went down in WCW.

By "bullshit" do you guys mean the way the title was devalued from a certain point of view?

Not just that, but Liger took it personally too, because he felt that being assoicated with the whole racist element of the title change to Juvi demeaned both him, the title, and, to a lesser extent, New Japan. Hence the sub-4 minute over Kanemoto, which was undoubtedly meant to take people's minds off the fiasco, by firmly reminding people Liger was a dominant jr heavyweight wrestler, which restored some credibility to all concerned.

The first Russo run in WCW is a blur for me. I remember images more than actual matches and angles. What was racist about it?

[BUTT 0]

Juvy beat Liger by hitting him with a tequila bottle.

[CBright7831 0]

I also seem to remember on the Starrcade 98 pre-show, they said Scott Hall would face Bam Bam Bigelow.

 

What happened there?

 

Both of them were in the building (as both ran in during the main event).

 

What happened?

 

EDIT - I know this may have already been asked.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

Juvy beat Liger by hitting him with a tequila bottle.

That's not racist. Racist is probably the guy in my avatar. Racist might be The Rock telling Eddie to ride away on a donkey. Racist IS half the stuff Teddy Long did on Raw. But hitting someone with a bottle of liquor that emanates from your country of origin? That's just bad booking.

[JST 0]

Racist is Juvy sitting up against the ropes with a sombrero covering his face. Racist is Eddie Guerrero & Art Barr doing swimming motions in front of a Mexican crowd.

 

Hitting someone with a bottle is using an illegal object, plain and simple. No racism there.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

Racist is Juvy sitting up against the ropes with a sombrero covering his face. Racist is Eddie Guerrero & Art Barr doing swimming motions in front of a Mexican crowd.

 

Hitting someone with a bottle is using an illegal object, plain and simple. No racism there.

Word to the herd.

[BUTT 0]

I honestly didn't consider it racist. But since everyone on the internet at the time was up in arms about everything Russo booked in WCW being "OMG RACISM!! WCW IS RACIST AND SO IS RUSSO!" I thought that's what HTQ was referring to given the fact that Juvy using a tequila bottle was the only thing I remember about the match that was different from whatever else he was doing at the time.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Didn't Juvi have to give Rhonda Singh mouth to mouth later in the same show with the Liger Tequila Bottle incident?

[Guest MikeSC]

Juvy beat Liger by hitting him with a tequila bottle.

That's not racist. Racist is probably the guy in my avatar. Racist might be The Rock telling Eddie to ride away on a donkey. Racist IS half the stuff Teddy Long did on Raw. But hitting someone with a bottle of liquor that emanates from your country of origin? That's just bad booking.

Well, keep in mind Russo had ALREADY made racial comments before he took over in WCW. So, he ALREADY had the red mark on him. Something about he doesn't give two shits about non-American wrestlers or something along those lines. He was a marked man and did nothing to change that.

 

And his treatment of the luchadores did reek of racism, to be honest. His treatment of Liger just showed that he didn't jackshit about wrestling.

-=Mike

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Because as well know all Mexican wrestlers always use tequila bottles as foreign objects because that's all they drink. Vince Russo has zero respect for foreigners or foreign wrestling, so I highly doubt he booked that finish for any other reason than because, in his mind, all Mexicans drink tequila. And that Pinata On A Pole match ? That wasn't racist either, I guess.

[Guest MikeSC]

Because as well know all Mexican wrestlers always use tequila bottles as foreign objects because that's all they drink. Vince Russo has zero respect for foreigners or foreign wrestling, so I highly doubt he booked that finish for any other reason than because, in his mind, all Mexicans drink tequila. And that Pinata On A Pole match ? That wasn't racist either, I guess.

I actually thought him having Steve Willams just slaughter NUMEROUS luchas, having Juvy to commentary, etc. were more overtly racist than the tequila bottle on the pole match.

 

But that was pretty damned racist.

-=Mike

[LessonInMachismo 0]

Because as well know all Mexican wrestlers always use tequila bottles as foreign objects because that's all they drink. Vince Russo has zero respect for foreigners or foreign wrestling, so I highly doubt he booked that finish for any other reason than because, in his mind, all Mexicans drink tequila. And that Pinata On A Pole match ? That wasn't racist either, I guess.

Well, to balance it out, he did stereotypes of his own Italian-American culture. And now he is producing Christian videos. Give the guy a break.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I'd like to give him several breaks.

[Guest MikeSC]

I'd like to give him several breaks.

Has any man had so many booking positions without showing any actual ability to write a good story?

 

I don't think Russo has ever managed to pull off ENDING a storyline.

-=Mike

[LessonInMachismo 0]

I'd like to give him several breaks.

Has any man had so many booking positions without showing any actual ability to write a good story?

 

I don't think Russo has ever managed to pull off ENDING a storyline.

-=Mike

I think Russo would be good if he had reins on him. Like he could throw out some wild shit and other writers could mold it into something coherent. Didn't WWE bring him back a few years ago for like one show? But he walked when they tried exactly that?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Russo was very good at writing the beginning of a story, but could never write a coherent middle or ending.

[Guest MikeSC]

Russo was very good at writing the beginning of a story, but could never write a coherent middle or ending.

Actually, if you look at it, 90% of his story beginnings were horrendous. He managed to stumble on Austin v McMahon and Rock v Mankind --- but nothing else he did was worth a damn.

 

He completely squandered the Hardys and Christian & Edge.

-=Mike

[BUTT 0]

Jeez, you can't get a break around here with regards to whether or not it was racist. So, I'm flip-flopping again: I guess it was racist!

 

 

But as for what Mike said, I wouldn't consider it racism that Steve Williams was able to beat up 5 luchadores at once. That's just dumb wrestling logic, that one big guy can beat up five little guys at the same time. The Pinata on a Pole stipulation itself was definitely racist. I'm a bit torn on Juvy commentating: Perhaps it was supposed to be funny because of Juvy's thick accent, but he did make some pretty hilarious shoot comments on Lex Luger and the Artist.

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

November 30, 1989 Meridian Miss 2100

Iron Sheik defeated Alex Porteau

 

The Pug was a WCW jobber.

[BUTT 0]

Yeah, just like his stint there years later.

[BUTT 0]

By the way, was Goldberg ever supposed to wrestle Luger at World War 3 '98? I remember reading that a while back and that Luger wouldn't job so they cancelled the match.

 

World War 3 '98 has to be the biggest example of how WCW shit on their fans. I mean, not only did the Norton vs. Booker match get cancelled, but Rick Steiner vs. Scott Steiner and Hall vs. Nash were advertised and then neither match took place, and certainly neither match would have been good, but those were the only non-battle royal matches besides DDP-Hart that weren't complete jobber matches. It's mind-boggling that WCW, featuring so many big names and great wrestlers, would put matches like Stevie Ray vs. Konnan and Wrath vs. Glacier on PPV.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Plus, they could've EASILY blown off the Goldberg/Jericho feud w/ a 5min World Title squash of Jericho on that card since Goldberg didn't even have a match and CJ was stuck in a meaningless match against Bobby Duncum Jr.

[BUTT 0]

Remember though, Goldberg didn't want to work with Jericho. I would have put Goldberg with DDP and Hart and turned the match into a three-way. DDP vs. Hart was no main event, because it had already been done on TV several times before, and when is a US title match a PPV main event anyway?