Kurt Angle vs. Daniel Puder: The Whole Story

[Guest theanswer1824]

is there video of this anywhere? i didn't catch it. it'd like to see it and be the judge for myself.

[Guest Loss]

Read the thread. Start to finish.

[Guest bigm350]

Its too bad SD's subscription to the WO ran out. I appreciated his time and effort into posting those. Good reading.

[Guest Loss]

Maybe we can find someone else with an Observer subscription to volunteer to start doing this, or at least post a summary. S_D providing all this was definitely much appreciated.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Doing TE live is a bad idea, I think it's obvious by now to say.

 

Perhaps it's the crowd or the cameras, but guys are either, by inexperience or cockyness, pissing off the top tier guys that they got on the show to eventually work with.

 

I don't even understand why they had Angle shoot a gassed out guy with zero experience. What the hell was that for? If he wasn't told to do that by management but improv'ed it himself, I'd say he earned what happened to him next time although clearly that guy was acting beyond what he should have, too.

 

That Puder guy makes me wish we still have Brock Lesnar around, because he could probably fuck that guy up harder than old & battered Kurt Angle.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I don't even understand why they had Angle shoot a gassed out guy with zero experience. What the hell was that for? If he wasn't told to do that by management but improv'ed it himself, I'd say he earned what happened to him next time although clearly that guy was acting beyond what he should have, too.

 

That Puder guy makes me wish we still have Brock Lesnar around, because he could probably fuck that guy up harder than old & battered Kurt Angle.

Management felt Angle would be able to beat all of them handily, purely because of his amateur wrestling skill and because the TE kids were going to be run ragged beforehand. It never occured to them that Puder would, not only challenge Angle, but own him.

 

As for saying Lesnar would have torn him up, that might not be as likely as you think. Lesnar, and Angle, have been out of true competitive wrestling for many years , and plunging them into an all-out shoot, with no prep time, would very likely have seen them embarrassed. as we saw with Angle. If Angle had time to train, then he probably would have schooled Puder. But he didn't, and Puder schooled him.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'm not sure if "schooled" can apply here given the relative shortness of the "match." Angle definetly got caught, though.

[Guest Loss]

Am I alone in wishing it had been Goldberg who had been embarrassed like that?

[bob_barron 0]

It would've been funnier if it was Nash

[Guest Anglesault]

I don't like how they decided to get rid of all mention and replay footage of the segment. It makes Angle look really weak

For whatever reason (possibly because they intend to push him hard and want to get some jobs out of the way first) They've gone out of their way recently to make Angle look really weak. Look at Survivor Series.

[evilhomer 0]

It would've been funnier if it was Nash

Nah, I'd rather see Goldberg, he still has that belief that he's a legit tough guy.

Nash has already fallen apart enough. It'd be like schooling Humpty Dumpty.

[Lei Tong 0]

That Puder guy makes me wish we still have Brock Lesnar around, because he could probably fuck that guy up harder than old & battered Kurt Angle.

As for saying Lesnar would have torn him up, that might not be as likely as you think. Lesnar, and Angle, have been out of true competitive wrestling for many years , and plunging them into an all-out shoot, with no prep time, would very likely have seen them embarrassed. as we saw with Angle. If Angle had time to train, then he probably would have schooled Puder. But he didn't, and Puder schooled him.

I don't mean to over analyze here, but even with prep time, it's not a given that Angle would have schooled Puder. Angle is nigh a decade removed from his Olympic victory, hasn't trained much for such a competitive sport since and has suffered numerous injuries since then. Also, while amateur wrestlers are very well conditioned and highly competitive athletes who can stretch most people like pretzels, their wrestling training doesn't necessarily prepare them all that well for submission wrestling and/or MMA in their various incarnations. For every great collegiate and/or Olympic wrestler that's held their own purely on their wrestling skills, there's 2 who have found themselves either beaten to a pulp by a kickboxer who knows how to survive on the ground or submitted by a submission fighter for whom being taken down is not a big deal.

 

Kenny Monday, 3 time Olympian (Gold, Silver, & 6th places finishes) & 3 time All-American in college, competed in a submission wrestling comeptition against AMC Pankration head trainer Matt Hume, and in spite of being able to physically dominate him and control the action early with his wrestling skills, he found himself in a toe hold (ankle lock in pro wrestling terms) by the upside down Hume and tapped just a little over a minute into the contest.

 

Lesnar would be a different story however, because in spite of being slightly less-accomplished as a wrestler, his sheer size and strength would make it difficult for someone like Puder to finish a Kimura on him, even with perfect positioning and grip. Then again, there's always the chance Puder catches him in a simple guillotine, rear naked, or some other choke variation as Lesnar tires out or simply positions himself badly.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

While I think Meltzer is overstating the potential fo the angle WITH THESE WRITERS/PRODUCERS (that's the key here, any angle with potential immediatly drops down fifty points, because of current WWE way of doing things).... this could have produced an entertaining and hot angle that just "feels" a little different.

 

I'm not surprise WWE messed it up. They do so with every. single. major. angle. period.

 

i like this part:

After calming down, Angle expressed interest in also turning it into a major angle, but the company wasn't interested.

 

Of course not. I mean there's no way this could get the kind of heat something like a BRADSHAW feud does. A complete moron could have created a hot feud between Angle and Puder, made PUder into a semi-star, and gotten at least ONE hot PPV match. A COMPLETE IDIOT COULD DO IT.

[Guest Brian]

And probably helped Angle out by giving him back some of his legitimate aura as a wrestler, which has been lost so often by letting people upstage him for a few pops.

[Promoter 0]

Off topic a bit, but if the wwe couldn't handle this situation without panicking how would Vince respond to Lennox Lewis/Brock Lesnar in a shoot for WM 19? Didn't they also want Angle to compete in the Olympics and face off against a boxer as well for Mania 19? You know that might have been the trick to turn these guys into true wwe legends if done right. As stated the things that generate the most interest in wrestling history have always seemed to stem from reality even if it wasn't.

 

Muhammad Ali and Antonio Inoki/Gorilla Monsoon

Bruno Sammartino breaking his neck

Bob Backlund not submitting the title(folklore as original screwjob by Vince)

 

More in Vince Mcmahon era:

Cyndi Lauper and Roddy Piper dispute bringing Hulk Hogan and Mr. T into the fray.

This started the Rock 'N Wrestling Connection.

 

Well, Sgt. Slaughter in 1990 was a flop as Hussein's sympathizer.

 

Hulk Hogan turning heel in wcw saying what he said which was pretty truthful.

 

Bret/Austin saga that kind of lead to Vince Mcmahon which led to Montreal that was the basis for Austin toppling HBK and doing the Hart/Mcmahon saga of 1997 with Austin in the role.

 

Oh yeah, let's not forget the addition of Mike Tyson which people did believe Tyson was going to return to ppv to fight in a wwf ring. Remember the boxing commission got into it? Don King was even on raw saying his lawyers and Vince's lawyers were negotiating to make a deal(it was only shown once on raw).

 

Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle's background and legitimacy mixed with the Olympics and shoots with the boxers might have jumpstarted the "aggression" era.

[dubq 0]

Anyone have a video/link of this segment with Angle & Puder?

[bob_barron 0]

Did you read the thread?

[dubq 0]

Yes, and from what I've come to see in the past - some members of the board have access - or know places with access - to the original uncut satellite feed as Smackdown is being taped.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

I'm on the fence with this issue.

 

On the one hand, I think Meltzer is overdoing it by saying this was a golden opportunity handed to them. I'm of the belief that few people would get, or care, that Puder nearly made Angle tap. I think 80% (maybe higher) of the fanbase doesn't see an Angle as "an Olympic Gold Medalist" with a ton of credibility, I think most fans just see him as a really entertaining SPORTS ENTERTAINER.

 

So I dont think this angle would have really caught on in the sense of "oh my, an unknown ultimate fighter made an Olympic Gold medalist tap". I mean I knwo some people at work and have friends who casually watch wrestling, and nobody was talking about this deal. So it couldn't have been that big.

 

Now, I also agree with the thought that Angle is cold, SD is cold, the WWE is cold, and any angle they could do that would be somewhat different from the usual crap they've been doing would be worth trying. In that regard, I think it would and still could be worthwhile to explore a potential Angle-Puder program.

 

I would basically do it sometime after the TE competition. Have Puder come out some time in late Jan/early Feb, they could play the tape again (to remind people) and have him claim he can beat Angle. They build to a match at Mania, and if Puder is connecting with the crowd, you would have Puder destroy Angle. Angle is already seen as something of a comedic figure, so I dont think a loss like this would totally bury Angle. And even if it did, and even though Angle is really good, Angle wont be around forever, so they might as well try (I mean really try) to make a new star.