HOLY FUCKIN SHIT

[Gert T 0]

I am torn on these rulings. Are they excessive? Yes, but really this so far from any other further cases I don't think the Vernon Maxwell argument is valid.

 

Artest: I don't think his will be reduced, Stern and the NBA will probably want to fight the appeal of this one more than the others. It may not be fair, but it was Artest's choice to go into the stands ultimately.

 

Jackson: 30 games. Probably excessive, but I don't mind see his still in the 20+ range.

 

O'Neal: 25 games. If his gets bumped down to 15 that would seem all right to me. He did not go into the stands, but I think Stern is trying to send the message that you cannot just go around hitting people, even if on the court. I totally agree fans should not be on the floor, but the situation was not 2 on 1. I believe Anthony Johnson was the one who tackled the first fan on the floor, after Artest hit him. There were at least 2 Pacers players/coaches beside Artest and unnamed fat fan, so let's not give O'Neal the congressional medal of honor for his actions (although as mentioned before I may have done the same).

 

Wallace: 6 games. Perhaps excessive but obviously Stern wants to set a tone for the violence in general. Wallace may have gotten more for throwing the towel at Artest.

 

 

While they may seem excessive, Stern is the head of this company. He is trying to insure that his product will never be associated with anything like this again.

 

 

I agree with you Alf, the Pacers will rally around this and wouldn't we love to see a 2 vs 7 matchup in the first round?

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

I really think the lack of media attention on LACK of security needs to be pointed out.

 

In watching this melee, there was hardly any security there.

 

I'm seriously concerned that in ten years all sporting events will take place in giant plexiglass encaged fields/courts to keep fans and players apart.

 

What's sad is this. I really expect some fans to merely go to games in efforts to try to do this again because it looked "Cool". Those two idiots in Oakland with The Texas Pitcher this fall admited they only go to taunt the players and this is something that is done in all cities and sports.

 

I want to say once again, Im not saying Ron Artest is the good guy here. Everyone did something and got what was justified.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Sometimes you do alright (Rodman)

Alright? They won three consecutive championships!

[Guest MikeSC]

I really think the lack of media attention on LACK of security needs to be pointed out.

 

In watching this melee, there was hardly any security there.

How many teams would have enough security during a regular season game to stop a full-scale riot initiated by jackass players?

 

Come on, let's be serious.

I'm seriously concerned that in ten years all sporting events will take place in giant plexiglass encaged fields/courts to keep fans and players apart.

Could be a problem --- and it wouldn't be the fans fault alone then.

I want to say once again, Im not saying Ron Artest is the good guy here. Everyone did something and got what was justified.

What, exactly, did the guy in black --- you know, the first guy Ron assaulted, do to deserve that?

 

Attend the game?

-=Mike

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

I'd hate to go off topic here but I recall a College Basketball game a couple years back when a Player dove into the courtside seats and knocked over some girl and didn't even apoligize or help up and got up and walked away and the boyfriend/husband shoved the player and the player threw a punch that missed and was seperated by the security.

 

Where was this at and what punishment did that player get if any?

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

I thought Jackson should have gotten more possibly. He ran up there and punched a random guy for no reason it looked like from my view. What was his provication? What was his problem?

 

What did Anthony Johnson do?

[Slayer 0]

Am I the only one who sees the irony in Internet Tough Guy Banky getting all over the players' asses for this?

[Guest Wart]

Umm, if I ran on to the court or field, I would like to be tackled or brought down somehow. Not slugged in the face.

Well, technically he did get brought down.

[Guest LooneyTune]

How can anyone say it was all the players fault? Sure, Artest and Jackson shouldn't have jumped into the crowds, but the fans shouldn't be throwing beer onto players, shouldn't be attacking them in the crowd or on the court. (The fat bald guy in the hat with repeated attempts to hit Artest in the side of the head, the 2 fat asses getting on the court and getting decked)

 

As much as the players are at fault for over-reacting, the fans have no right to do the same. You pay to see the game, not attack players and throw cups of beer on them because your wet-dream lover had to be a bitch.

[Guest P!NK.]

Looks like justice was served from the NBA. Artest is a repeat offender in the NBA's book, so he deserves the harshest penalty out of everybody, regardless of whether you feel he was justified or not in going to the stands.

 

Of course, the fans that threw the beer at Artest and jumped on the court should be banned from the arena, no doubt there. But just take a second and really think about it: there's no real justification for assaulting a fan, is there? The high road was always available for the Pacers players, but they didn't take it and now they're going to rightfully pay the price.

 

Though, for a 20+ game suspension, Jermaine O'Neal made sure to get his money's worth on that flying shouryuken fat guy punch. Stunning.

[CanadianChris 0]

How can anyone say it was all the players fault? Sure, Artest and Jackson shouldn't have jumped into the crowds, but the fans shouldn't be throwing beer onto players, shouldn't be attacking them in the crowd or on the court. (The fat bald guy in the hat with repeated attempts to hit Artest in the side of the head, the 2 fat asses getting on the court and getting decked)

 

As much as the players are at fault for over-reacting, the fans have no right to do the same. You pay to see the game, not attack players and throw cups of beer on them because your wet-dream lover had to be a bitch.

Bottom line: Players can't go after fans. Period. They have to show some restraint and let some things slide that they wouldn't normally. Let security deal with abusive fans.

 

Otherwise, every stadium gets an English-style fence and moat erected around the playing surface.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

I still can't believe how anyone that saw the whole thing can say that it is was a fair decision to suspend Artest for the whole season. Artest had been subdued once he got hold of the fan, the riot started when a fan threw a drink in his face and Stephen Jackson punched that guy. From then on everything Artest did was in self defense(the guy punching him from behind and the guys that stepped onto the court)

[KingPK 0]

But if Artest didn't tear ass into the stands in the first place, they would have settled things down and finished the game as normal. And this is his TENTH suspension from what I've heard/read; Stern had no choice.

[Guest MikeSC]

I still can't believe how anyone that saw the whole thing can say that it is was a fair decision to suspend Artest for the whole season. Artest had been subdued once he got hold of the fan,

Um, he got hold of an INNOCENT fan. That is, believe it or not, a BAD thing.

the riot started when a fan threw a drink in his face

Bullshit. He wasn't even REMOTELY subdued when he grabbed the fan (who, again, didn't do a thing).

 

I can't believe you're attempting to absolve Artest for the blame for this.

and Stephen Jackson punched that guy. From then on everything Artest did was in self defense(the guy punching him from behind and the guys that stepped onto the court)

Artest started the incident by storming into the crowd and assaulting random innocent fans. Jackson then started punching MORE innocent fans randomly. They go onto the court, where fans had gone to avoid the violence, and sucker punched another fan who posed no threat.

 

Artest got off light.

-=Mike

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

Did you even watch the thing?

 

Yes Artest grabbed the wrong guy , however Artest was gotten a hold of before he could do anything.

 

Where the fuck did people get the idea that Artest and Jackson just went in there ands started punching people. Jackson punched the guy that threw a drink at Artest's face. Artest started swinging after he got punched from behind. And the fan that was on the court went up to Artest as though he was going to punch him.

[CanadianChris 0]

All of which doesn't answer the question...

 

WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY DOING IN THE STANDS IN THE FIRST PLACE?????

[Fökai 0]

All of which doesn't answer the question...

 

WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY DOING IN THE STANDS IN THE FIRST PLACE?????

That's not even the point of the argument anymore.

 

Artest is automatically suspended 10+ games for going into the stands.

 

The absurdity lays with the length of the suspension, especially when they could've done something worthwhile with that suspension (30+ games to nail the point, in addition to psychological help for Artest, based on his previous offenses).

[Guest MikeSC]

Did you even watch the thing?

 

Yes Artest grabbed the wrong guy , however Artest was gotten a hold of before he could do anything.

 

Where the fuck did people get the idea that Artest and Jackson just went in there ands started punching people. Jackson punched the guy that threw a drink at Artest's face. Artest started swinging after he got punched from behind. And the fan that was on the court went up to Artest as though he was going to punch him.

Hardly. Artest was STILL lunging at people. It took, I believe, Jalen Rose to finally drag him out of the stands --- and this was AFTER he and Jackson were unloading on people.

 

Jackson was blindly swinging at anybody. "Ooh, the guy threw a drink" --- at a guy who was on the verge of ASSAULTING him. Forgive me if my heart doesn't bleed for the idiot.

 

And the fan on the court made no threatening gesture, whatsoever, to Artest. Not a single threatening gesture. Artest sucker punched him.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

All of which doesn't answer the question...

 

WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY DOING IN THE STANDS IN THE FIRST PLACE?????

That's not even the point of the argument anymore.

 

Artest is automatically suspended 10+ games for going into the stands.

 

The absurdity lays with the length of the suspension, especially when they could've done something worthwhile with that suspension (30+ games to nail the point, in addition to psychological help for Artest, based on his previous offenses).

Artest deserved MORE. He deserves a lifetime banishment --- as does Jackson.

 

This was the WORST incident in NBA history. Stern had to make an example of all of this and, hopefully, this does the job.

-=Mike

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Yes Artest grabbed the wrong guy , however Artest was gotten a hold of before he could do anything.

 

Where the fuck did people get the idea that Artest and Jackson just went in there ands started punching people. Jackson punched the guy that threw a drink at Artest's face.

And the reason the guy threw a drink at Artest was because Artest was attacking his friend... for no reason.

And yes it is confirmed that the dude was a friend of (and there with) the innocent nerd guy that ROn Artest attacked. If somebody attacked your friend for no reason, you'd just stand there? Isn't that exactly what Jackson was doing? So jackson doing it, and it was standing up for your bud, but the second dude, doing the exact same thing, is evil. Got it.

 

If there are any lawsuits, there is no way in hell self-defense will apply to Ronnie boy, even if he hadn't been stupid enough to attack the wrong guy. (the actual cup-thrower has been identified and brought up on some charges I believe)

 

And anybody who says 'i'd exact exactly the same way as Ron Artest in that situation' (meaning being a basketball player in that arena), well then you should also be suspended. Artest has always been borderline psycho, and people always say the same thing, when he threw the camera when he did all of the idiotic stupid things he did. As i've said before I feel bad for Pacer FANS, but i've got no sympathy for Artest. How many chances is this moron going to get!?

 

The thing is so huge now that its literally an international incident. This is way bigger than the sport of basketball now. Those of you who think that should not be put into account when deciding punishments are IDIOTS and should never ever run any sort of company or business or put in charge of anything important. Ever. In your life. Probably 40 games would be justified with no external circumstances. Considering the gravity of the situation and how this is effecting the entire league, and how big it is, a season while slightly harsh, is absolutely fine.

[CBright7831 0]

Nearly five days later and this thing is 18 pages deep with over 500 replies.

 

And not to mention I don't think I've found myself alone reading the thread everytime I've clicked on it.

 

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

Amazingly, it turns out the real idiot fan has a criminal record and was caught by the Prosectutor...who just happened to be his ex-neighbor.

 

You can't write this shit.

[Fökai 0]

Jackson was blindly swinging at anybody. "Ooh, the guy threw a drink" --- at a guy who was on the verge of ASSAULTING him. Forgive me if my heart doesn't bleed for the idiot.

 

For accuracy purposes, I'm correcting what Jackson did, though I agree with his suspension: the fan Jackson attacked was a guy who threw a drink and a punch at Artest while he wasn't looking (during the time Artest was involved with the first fan).

 

And the fan on the court made no threatening gesture, whatsoever, to Artest. Not a single threatening gesture. Artest sucker punched him

 

In a fight, what actually classifies a "threatening" gesture? One, he's on the court where's he not supposed to be. Second, he got through the security with literal ease. Lastly, when he came up to Artest, he's already clenched both of his fists and is bouncing up and down.

 

There's no sucker-punching involved - it's just that Artest beat him to the punch. Mike, if the two fans got past the security onto the court, what were they planning to do? Ask Ron for an autograph?

 

 

Artest deserved MORE. He deserves a lifetime banishment --- as does Jackson.

 

What does Artest deserve a lifetime banishment for? Is it because of the "attack" on the first fan, or is it in addition to the punch he threw at the fan on the court?

 

Considering you stuck up for Jermaine O'Neal, why wouldn't you stick up for what Artest did on the court?

 

 

This was the WORST incident in NBA history. Stern had to make an example of all of this and, hopefully, this does the job.

 

The suspension was ass-backwards in execution.

 

For reasons unbeknownst, Stern decided to take $6 million and a season away from a player, in a situation where Artest's critics, ex-teammates and former coach agreed should've forced Artest to seek psychological help. Instead, Stern attempting "damage control" backfired in his face, leaving fans still unsure of whether they should plunk down money for a ticket, especially when there's no immediate threat of it happening again due to the new rules the NBA will enforce under the public radar.

[Guest MikeSC]

Jackson was blindly swinging at anybody. "Ooh, the guy threw a drink" --- at a guy who was on the verge of ASSAULTING him. Forgive me if my heart doesn't bleed for the idiot.

For accuracy purposes, I'm correcting what Jackson did, though I agree with his suspension: the fan Jackson attacked was a guy who threw a drink and a punch at Artest while he wasn't looking (during the time Artest was involved with the first fan).

The fan saw a guy right near him assaulting people --- including, most likely, somebody he knew. As somebody else pointed out, NBA players are apparently allowed to just haul off and nail somebody to "defend" a teammate (who entered the stands on his accord), but fans can't throw a drink on somebody in retaliation.

And the fan on the court made no threatening gesture, whatsoever, to Artest. Not a single threatening gesture. Artest sucker punched him

In a fight, what actually classifies a "threatening" gesture?

It wasn't a fight. It was a sucker punch.

One, he's on the court where's he not supposed to be.

Because the guy who sucker punched him had just been dragged out of the stands, where HE is not even remotely supposed to be. I wouldn't stay in the stands if a melee had broken out.

Second, he got through the security with literal ease. Lastly, when he came up to Artest, he's already clenched both of his fists and is bouncing up and down.

Seeing as his hands were down, interesting that you could tell that he had his fists clenched.

There's no sucker-punching involved - it's just that Artest beat him to the punch. Mike, if the two fans got past the security onto the court, what were they planning to do? Ask Ron for an autograph?

No, it's Artest punching a random person for no reason. In MOST circles, it is also referred to as assault and CAN result in a massive fine, if not a prison sentence.

 

For a "fight" to occur, both men have to be involved. The fat guy wasn't involved.

Artest deserved MORE. He deserves a lifetime banishment --- as does Jackson.

What does Artest deserve a lifetime banishment for? Is it because of the "attack" on the first fan, or is it in addition to the punch he threw at the fan on the court?

Both. He and Jackson crossed a line NOBODY should cross and the NBA should have forced them to sacrifice their careers to teach the other players a lesson in addition to punishing them.

Considering you stuck up for Jermaine O'Neal, why wouldn't you stick up for what Artest did on the court?

The more I see of it, the less I defend O'Neal, who ALSO cheap-shotted the guy (who was on his knees).

 

Artest caused the entire problem. Yes, it was HIS fault.

This was the WORST incident in NBA history. Stern had to make an example of all of this and, hopefully, this does the job.

The suspension was ass-backwards in execution.

The only problem was that it wasn't harsh enough.

For reasons unbeknownst, Stern decided to take $6 million and a season away from a player, in a situation where Artest's critics, ex-teammates and former coach agreed should've forced Artest to seek psychological help.

Tough fucking shit. He already HAD anger management as the league demanded and it clearly didn't work. Artest committed a wrong unequaled in NBA history. Too damned bad if the thug "needs help".

 

He's had chances to get help for years. If he refuses to see it, that is his own problem. The league's job is not to do what's best for Ron Artest. It's to do what's best for the NBA.

 

If Artest can't handle the pressures, he needs to find another line of work.

Instead, Stern attempting "damage control" backfired in his face, leaving fans still unsure of whether they should plunk down money for a ticket, especially when there's no immediate threat of it happening again due to the new rules the NBA will enforce under the public radar.

Stern knows his league ALREADY has a major image problem. He saw an incident that only made it infinitely worse.

 

That attendance might be harmed due to his actions is reason enough for the NBA to wash its hands of Ron.

-=Mike

[Fökai 0]

Jackson was blindly swinging at anybody. "Ooh, the guy threw a drink" --- at a guy who was on the verge of ASSAULTING him. Forgive me if my heart doesn't bleed for the idiot.

For accuracy purposes, I'm correcting what Jackson did, though I agree with his suspension: the fan Jackson attacked was a guy who threw a drink and a punch at Artest while he wasn't looking (during the time Artest was involved with the first fan).

Point conceded.

 

Both people (Jackson, second fan) stuck up for their colleagues, yet Jackson IS scolded for defending his. By that time, it is a confrontation that suspends the fact of where they actually are (an NBA arena) and is instead focused on looking out for the safety of the first two parties.

 

In a fight, what actually classifies a "threatening" gesture?

It wasn't a fight. It was a sucker punch.

 

I was referring to the basic outline of a "fight". Before a confrontation turns into a fight, what usually ignites it? Choice words or a theatening gesture. Now again, what is exactly defined as a "threatening gesture"?

 

One, he's on the court where's he not supposed to be.

Because the guy who sucker punched him had just been dragged out of the stands, where HE is not even remotely supposed to be. I wouldn't stay in the stands if a melee had broken out.

 

How exactly is his section unsafe? He and his friend are the only two fans on the court as this is all going on. With all of the people still in their seats on the press box, he would've had to come from behind the Pacers bench to get onto the court. The Pacers bench, mind you, is about sixty feet from the incident. How can a fan justify securing his safety by walking onto the court and approaching the player who had just been involved in the altercation with the fans?

 

Second, he got through the security with literal ease. Lastly, when he came up to Artest, he's already clenched both of his fists and is bouncing up and down.

Seeing as his hands were down, interesting that you could tell that he had his fists clenched.

 

His fists have to be up to be clenched?

 

WATCH THE VIDEO. His fists are balled up before AND after Artest punches him. He begins to punch Artest, along with his friend attempting to take Ron down, but security and the Pacer coaches collapse onto the the three. When the friend gets up, he is the one who's decked by an O'Neal fist.

 

There's no sucker-punching involved - it's just that Artest beat him to the punch. Mike, if the two fans got past the security onto the court, what were they planning to do? Ask Ron for an autograph?

No, it's Artest punching a random person for no reason. In MOST circles, it is also referred to as assault and CAN result in a massive fine, if not a prison sentence.

 

I'm sure there's fine print on an NBA game ticket to prevent a FAN ON THE COURT suing for physical harm, when comparable sports events (i.e. WWE, MLB, NFL) absolve players, referees and security from responsibility.

 

For a "fight" to occur, both men have to be involved. The fat guy wasn't involved.

 

THEN WHAT HE WAS HE DOING ON THE COURT?!?

 

Both. He and Jackson crossed a line NOBODY should cross and the NBA shouldhave forced them to sacrifice their careers to teach the other players a lesson in addition to punishing them.

 

...and risk alienating the Indiana franchise, their fans, any players who object to two players being banished from the league, and the player's union who will laugh in your face at the absurdity of the suspension?

 

Considering you stuck up for Jermaine O'Neal, why wouldn't you stick up for what Artest did on the court?

The more I see of it, the less I defend O'Neal, who ALSO cheap-shotted the guy (who was on his knees).

 

Different guy, as mentioned above.

 

Artest caused the entire problem. Yes, it was HIS fault.

 

Funny. I can attribute the problem to a few people...

 

1. Artest - the hard foul, going up into the stands at all, going up into the stands after the wrong person.

 

2. Ben Wallace - for overreacting. It's one thing to be pissed and taunt Artest, but he pie-faced him to make the situation worse. Geezus, that was the weakest intentional foul I have seen in about ten years of actively watching the NBA; this is even less offensive by the fact that Wallace got away with a hard foul on Artest two possessions before.

 

3. Innocent fan #2, Stephen Jackson - for causing the riot.

 

4. Enormous guy (aka Ben Wallace's brother) - for attacking a completely innocent player (Freddie Jones) who was attempting to diffuse the situation the whole time. If you watch the video before the play goes into the stands, he's already on the sidelines and threatening the Pacer players.

 

5. Fan who threw the cup - Everyone uses the comparison of "In my shoes..."- well, that's not the point. Instead, can you recall a time where a fan threw a cup of liquid at a player DURING a game?

 

6. Fatboy I and II - echoed by the sentiments of everyone here.

 

Tough fucking shit. He already HAD anger management as the league demanded and it clearly didn't work.

 

Artest committed a wrong unequaled in NBA history. Too damned bad if the thug "needs help".

 

Spreewell choking P.J. Carlesimo in front of his teammates was worse.

 

Kermit Washington jaw-jacking Rudy Tomjanovich was worse.

[Fökai 0]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6550352/

Michael Ventre

NBCSports.com

 

O.K., so he’s a knucklehead whose actions are almost impossible to defend.

 

But I’m going to give it a try anyway.

 

A Native American proverb states, “Don’t judge a man unless you’ve walked a mile in his shoes.” Doing so in Artest’s case may result in severe damage to one’s psychological well-being, but it’s necessary in order to explain why the Indiana Pacers’ nutbag had some justification for his offenses in the now-historic melee that earned him a suspension for the rest of the season — which, including time served (Saturday’s loss against Orlando) amounts to 73 games, plus playoffs — from an image-obsessed NBA.

 

If you noticed anything amid the flying beer cups and overweight Pistons fans attempting to fight world-class athletes, you should admit that Artest did not start the ruckus, and in fact, sought to remove himself from it.

 

Artest fouled Ben Wallace hard in the final minute of the Pacers’ win over the Pistons Friday night, but it was nothing out of the ordinary. Yet Wallace completely overreacted, shoving Artest hard and thereby instigating the drunken dullards in the seats. Wallace admitted he was wrong and even attempted to contact Artest afterward to apologize.

 

After the benches emptied and players milled around with typical but harmless post-incident posturing, Artest tried to remove himself from conflict and controversy by lying on the scorer’s table. Everything would have been fine if not for the actions of a few beer-guzzling louts who couldn’t leave well enough alone.

 

One of the aforementioned cretins hurled a cup of beer at Artest, causing him to jump off the table and rush into the seats, fists flailing.

 

I would have done the exact same thing.

 

I’m not proud of it. I don’t think violence is the answer. But again, walking a mile in Artest’s shoes? When all I did was foul someone hard, and Wallace blew his cool, instigating a brouhaha? When I’m trying to stay out of trouble, and someone from the stands assaults me? When the league is doing almost nothing to protect players from unruly fans?

 

You’re damn right I go into the stands, regardless of how much it may eventually cost me.

 

And if I’m in the shoes of Stephen Jackson, or Jermaine O’Neal, and I see one of my teammates being beaten up? I go up and help.

 

Now here’s a key point that should not be ignored.

 

The NBA takes a strident and unflinching stance on the issue of players going into the stands. No ifs, ands or buts. It is absolutely inexcusable, it says.

 

But David Stern and his minions make it sound as though there is a massive divide between the players on the court and the fans in the seats. In actuality, fans are only a few feet away. And that’s by design.

 

The league has a major selling point for the fans’ access to the action, as opposed to the arms-length arrangements in baseball, football and hockey. The clubs sell tickets at exorbitant rates just so beer-swilling jerks can sit close to the players and, at the very least, make vile comments. And at the very worst, inject themselves into the fray.

 

I don’t know if concession stands at the Palace of Auburn Hills shut off beer sales after the third quarter, like some venues. But it seems to me that there was no shortage of giant cups of brew in that game's final minute, judging by how much was thrown at players and team personnel.

 

The NBA condones the heavy drinking. It requires a skeleton crew of security men at its events. It invites fans to get as close to the action as possible. And then it breaks out the soapbox when the powderkeg goes off.

 

Artest and the other players certainly deserve suspensions. But the NBA’s hypocrisy is laughable. Stern and the league are as culpable as anyone.

 

Stern has an easy target in Artest, who recently caused an uproar when he cluelessly asked for time off from basketball so he could promote his R&B album. Stern views him as the Latrell Sprewell of the 21st century, someone he can demonize as ‘The Player Who Doesn’t Get It’.

 

But Sprewell was different. He attacked then-Warriors coach P.J. Carlesimo after verbal provocation. And after he did, he had plenty of time to calm down. Yet he attacked a second time.

 

Artest was physically assaulted. His response was self-defense, even though it may not fit the classic definition.

 

To me, self-defense is this: If you attack me, I’m going to attack you back.

 

I bring up the Sprewell example because Artest’s suspension is Sprewell-esque. That ban was originally 82 games, but was later pared down to 68 by an arbitrator. So is the league suggesting that what Artest did is worse than what Sprewell did? Or is this just a case of the NBA covering its behind in the interests of polishing an image and keeping the revenue stream flowing?

 

The league professes a zero-tolerance policy on players going after fans in the stands. With these penalties — Jackson got 30 games and O’Neal 20 games, among others — it pretends to be doing the right thing.

 

Wrong.

 

What the league is doing is protecting the cash cow. It’s siding with the buying public against the players. It’s protecting itself against litigation by making believe that the problem is the players, and the problem is being dealt with. Yet by taking that approach, it is giving tacit approval to boorish actions by its customers in the future.

 

I’m not saying the NBA is condoning violence by the fans. I’m not suggesting it doesn’t want to see certain fans prosecuted for their actions in that brawl.

 

But the unusually heavy suspensions will serve as a smokescreen to obscure the league’s own responsibility here. What do you think are the chances that fans will be seated farther away from the action now on, which would discourage any such future incidents? How likely do you think it is that the league will insist beer sales be severely limited at its arenas, or discontinued altogether? What is the likelihood that security forces will be doubled from now on at all NBA games?

 

I have the answer for you: The status quo will remain in effect, because it’s easier to blame a small handful of wealthy, high-profile NBA players who can afford the fines and suspensions than it is to tackle the root causes of the problem.

 

This whole situation is embarrassing and appalling. The brawl was ugly, too.

[nogoodnick 0]

Colin Cowherd on ESPN Radio this morning was talking about the fan that threw the beer. His name is John Green. Hes a real winner: 3 DUI's, arrested for illegally carrying a concealed weapon, assault, fraud, and escaping PRISON! This guy was just looking for trouble and might go back to jail. A stipulation of his probabtion was that he couldn't drink any alcohol and hes been caught on camera at the very least holding a beer. When a local reporter went to his house to speak with him he released his German Shephard on him. The assault charge stemmed from an incident when he was a marine. He was looking for trouble. Hopefully the Auburn Hills police come down hard on this guy because hes a piece of shit.

 

David Stern needs to take in some consideraton that the fans were trying to incite a reaction from Ron Artest. His suspension should be reduced as well as Jermaine's.

[Guest MikeSC]

Jackson was blindly swinging at anybody. "Ooh, the guy threw a drink" --- at a guy who was on the verge of ASSAULTING him. Forgive me if my heart doesn't bleed for the idiot.

For accuracy purposes, I'm correcting what Jackson did, though I agree with his suspension: the fan Jackson attacked was a guy who threw a drink and a punch at Artest while he wasn't looking (during the time Artest was involved with the first fan).

Point conceded.

Both people (Jackson, second fan) stuck up for their colleagues, yet Jackson IS scolded for defending his.

Because Jackson and Artest had no place in the stands.

By that time, it is a confrontation that suspends the fact of where they actually are (an NBA arena) and is instead focused on looking out for the safety of the first two parties.

Jackson is just randomly nailing people. How that is "standing up" for his teammate (who caused the problem to begin with)?

In a fight, what actually classifies a "threatening" gesture?

It wasn't a fight. It was a sucker punch.

I was referring to the basic outline of a "fight". Before a confrontation turns into a fight, what usually ignites it? Choice words or a theatening gesture. Now again, what is exactly defined as a "threatening gesture"?

Nothing the portly fan did could be viewed as being threatening.

One, he's on the court where's he not supposed to be.

Because the guy who sucker punched him had just been dragged out of the stands, where HE is not even remotely supposed to be. I wouldn't stay in the stands if a melee had broken out.

How exactly is his section unsafe? He and his friend are the only two fans on the court as this is all going on.

The crowd wasn't exactly large then, either.

With all of the people still in their seats on the press box, he would've had to come from behind the Pacers bench to get onto the court. The Pacers bench, mind you, is about sixty feet from the incident. How can a fan justify securing his safety by walking onto the court and approaching the player who had just been involved in the altercation with the fans?

If that fan was looking for a fight, he would have sucker punched Artest when he had the chance. He was not and he did not.

Second, he got through the security with literal ease. Lastly, when he came up to Artest, he's already clenched both of his fists and is bouncing up and down.

Seeing as his hands were down, interesting that you could tell that he had his fists clenched.

His fists have to be up to be clenched?

You can't even SEE his hands when Artest sucker punches him.

WATCH THE VIDEO. His fists are balled up before AND after Artest punches him. He begins to punch Artest, along with his friend attempting to take Ron down, but security and the Pacer coaches collapse onto the the three. When the friend gets up, he is the one who's decked by an O'Neal fist.

You don't SEE his hands when Artest nails him. After that, the fan has every right to return a punch. The fan did not even attempt to swing at Artest before Ron nailed him.

There's no sucker-punching involved - it's just that Artest beat him to the punch. Mike, if the two fans got past the security onto the court, what were they planning to do? Ask Ron for an autograph?

No, it's Artest punching a random person for no reason. In MOST circles, it is also referred to as assault and CAN result in a massive fine, if not a prison sentence.

I'm sure there's fine print on an NBA game ticket to prevent a FAN ON THE COURT suing for physical harm, when comparable sports events (i.e. WWE, MLB, NFL) absolve players, referees and security from responsibility.

There's also a reasonable expectation that the players won't go into the stands to beat up fans. If anybody tries that defense in their inevitable lawsuit, the ticket's fine print is already null and void due to that fact alone. Hard to expect fans to honor THEIR contract (which the ticket fine print is) when the players will not do the same.

For a "fight" to occur, both men have to be involved. The fat guy wasn't involved.

THEN WHAT HE WAS HE DOING ON THE COURT?!?

Escaping violence.

Both. He and Jackson crossed a line NOBODY should cross and the NBA shouldhave forced them to sacrifice their careers to teach the other players a lesson in addition to punishing them.

...and risk alienating the Indiana franchise, their fans, any players who object to two players being banished from the league, and the player's union who will laugh in your face at the absurdity of the suspension?

Screw the Pacers if they can't keep their thugs under control. Their fans will get over it. Their players will get over it. And the union would be wise to not fight this too hard.

Considering you stuck up for Jermaine O'Neal, why wouldn't you stick up for what Artest did on the court?

The more I see of it, the less I defend O'Neal, who ALSO cheap-shotted the guy (who was on his knees).

Different guy, as mentioned above.

Guy was on his knees.

Artest caused the entire problem. Yes, it was HIS fault.

Funny. I can attribute the problem to a few people...

 

2. Ben Wallace - for overreacting. It's one thing to be pissed and taunt Artest, but he pie-faced him to make the situation worse. Geezus, that was the weakest intentional foul I have seen in about ten years of actively watching the NBA; this is even less offensive by the fact that Wallace got away with a hard foul on Artest two possessions before.

How on God's earth is the riot Wallace's fault? Players shoving one another over nothing is hardly a rarity --- considering that the league is overrun with thugs.

3. Innocent fan #2, Stephen Jackson - for causing the riot.

The fans did not cause the riot. Idiot players in the stands caused the riot.

5. Fan who threw the cup - Everyone uses the comparison of "In my shoes..."- well, that's not the point. Instead, can you recall a time where a fan threw a cup of liquid at a player DURING a game?

Yes. The David Robinson example has already been mentioned.

6. Fatboy I and II - echoed by the sentiments of everyone here.

Sucker punching the fans is not the fans' fault.

Tough fucking shit. He already HAD anger management as the league demanded and it clearly didn't work.

 

Artest committed a wrong unequaled in NBA history. Too damned bad if the thug "needs help".

Spreewell choking P.J. Carlesimo in front of his teammates was worse.

It's not in the same ballpark. Attacking a coach, while horrendous, is not close to attacking FANS AT RANDOM.

Kermit Washington jaw-jacking Rudy Tomjanovich was worse.

Oh, you cannot be serious. One punch thrown at a player, no matter how strong the punch, does not APPROACH randomly ASSAULTING FANS IN THE STANDS.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Colin Cowherd on ESPN Radio this morning was talking about the fan that threw the beer. His name is John Green. Hes a real winner: 3 DUI's, arrested for illegally carrying a concealed weapon, assault, fraud, and escaping PRISON! This guy was just looking for trouble and might go back to jail. A stipulation of his probabtion was that he couldn't drink any alcohol and hes been caught on camera at the very least holding a beer. When a local reporter went to his house to speak with him he released his German Shephard on him. The assault charge stemmed from an incident when he was a marine. He was looking for trouble. Hopefully the Auburn Hills police come down hard on this guy because hes a piece of shit.

 

David Stern needs to take in some consideraton that the fans were trying to incite a reaction from Ron Artest. His suspension should be reduced as well as Jermaine's.

And Artest tried to get a reaction out of the fans. Fuck Ron Artest.

-=Mike

[CBright7831 0]

Anybody see Ron Artest on the Today show?

 

It's somewhere down there.

 

 

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