Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 duh, EDGE'S theme is from alter bridge, not Christian's, silly me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Exslade ZX 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Wait...so Orton starts getting huge cheers...they turn him. 'WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY DOING!?" or God WWE is so stupid. even heard, why didn't they slowburn it for months..until WM if they were gonna do it. Batista gets the huge cheer once...'GIVE HIM THE WORLD TITLE'... ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 seems to me the Smark community has been singing Batista's praise for months now and he seems to have been over with the live crowds for awhile as well, what do you mean once? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Exslade ZX 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 seems to me the Smark community has been singing Batista's praise for months now and he seems to have been over with the live crowds for awhile as well, what do you mean once? Well, I meant face heat really. He hasn't so much been getting 'Batista' chants even though yea, he is over. And most said about the Orton turn and almost any turn when WWE actually does it, that they are rushing. And the idea was crap because they should have waited longer...now this has what, 2 weeks build? And everyone's going, turn Batista face next week! Or he should be fighting for the title at the next PPV! I mean..wow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 I wouldn't go so far as to make him a face, but a tweener type like Rock or Austin wouldn't hurt...Orton's turn was totally screwed up from the get go because they made him out to be a pussy that runs from everything and now they're scrambling to make him a bad ass again... i wouldn't put the title on Batista IMMEDIATELY, but at this rate I'd rather see HHH/Batista at WM than HHH/Orton...I don't think Orton should have gotten the belt at all at this point, that should have been held off until WM, now his WM win is going to be anti-climatic... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Promoter 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 FINGER. POKE. OF. DOOM.(but more predictable) That's what I saw last night. End of story. Next week the cartoon shall continue when HHH plays road runner and the faces play Coyote. Extremely disappointed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest M. Harry Smilac Report post Posted November 23, 2004 He's certainly up there in the top 5 of all time hosses in the WWE as far as workrate goes so why not put the strap on him? Are you serious????Top 5 of all time????Goldberg can work better then Batista at this point and time. He has the look and power but his timing and the fact that he has to be 100% carried should keep him from the strap for at least another year or so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 He's certainly up there in the top 5 of all time hosses in the WWE as far as workrate goes so why not put the strap on him? Are you serious????Top 5 of all time????Goldberg can work better then Batista at this point and time. He has the look and power but his timing and the fact that he has to be 100% carried should keep him from the strap for at least another year or so. I'm very serious, he entertains me more than Goldberg does...at least he does more than snort and snarl and Goldberg got pretty bad there from about mid point to the end of his career. He was only good his first couple years up through his first title reign then he hit the skids and becamse unentertaining from that point on...he was absolute ass in WWE... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Are you serious????Top 5 of all time????Goldberg can work better then Batista at this point and time. He has the look and power but his timing and the fact that he has to be 100% carried should keep him from the strap for at least another year or so. Another difference is Batista is good (way better than Orton at least) on the mic. Goldberg never was. Re: Pis I will not be your monkey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 What's the difference between these Raws and the ones that happened before Survivor Series? That's my main problem (well, at least in regards to RAW... ok, that's not my main, main problem). What distinguishes a Maven RAW from a Benoit RAW? Oh, right, the matches with HHH. They had an opportunity to change it up -breathe some fresh air into the stale product- and they failed on every single level. Why is there the same RAW music? Why is there the same format? Why is it still JR and the King announcing? Why are there cameras focusing on two unknown chicks? This doesn't sound like a show Benoit -or to be more specific, the character of Benoit- would book. And you can attribute that to (i)Unimaginative Writers and (ii)lazy bookers. I wonder if they even CONSIDERED actually asking the wrestlers what they'd want to do with the 88 minutes of screen time available? When the NWO took over Nitro, or when they had Souled Out, it was a different show that what was normally done. This was an opportunity for the WWE to develop Maven and Benoit as characters and they failed miserably. This was not Benoit's RAW, this was RAW had Benoit in it. Wait, I should say it was Evolutions RAW that had Benoit in it. Which is another story in itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted November 23, 2004 See I would have to slightly disagree with you Rudo. Last week I thought they did a good job at doing something they have NEVER been able to do. Make Maven important on the show. They did a storyline on weather or not he would join Evolution or fight the champion. Not the most complex storyline, but oh well.......what can you do. It was at least passible. This week though was a fucking abomination of a wrestling show. I can't believe they would do such a blatant bait and switch for the main event. I agree 100% with Rudo that this show seemed to be written by half asleep writers as opposed to Benoit. Why the hell would he book Snitsky/Maven? Maven obviously would get killed. If they wanted the show to seem realistic they would have said that Snitsky will fight Maven and Kane, or something to the effect of giving Maven an advantage in the match. Then it would have come across as Benoit actually booking the show. I swear though that if Trips runs through the roster in that battle royal...........I'm going to kill someone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Maven was put in a passive position for most of his RAW. Did you ever get the feeling that HE was in control of the show? Ditto with Benoit. The feeling, at least the feeling I get from it, is that Evolution -particularly HHH- is controlling the show. The Maven-joining-Evolution storyline could have been done outside of him being GM of RAW, easily. There is so much potential in one guy tailor making a show to reflect what he wants in wrestling and they are completely wasting it with storylines that could be done any other day of the year. They are not making these RAWs special enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Really, the only thing here that is different from most RAWs is that HHH has to find new ways to squeek by. The show isn't "Will Orton beat HHH" or "What will Benoit do tonight" whatever, the show is "How will HHH get out of this one". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 yeah but didn't Benoit say he had folks request matches rather than book it himself? wouldn't that counterpoint your points for it not being HIS show? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Actually, it fits right along with my point about the writers being unimaginative and the bookers being lazy, but thanks for playing. The Benoit in my mind would want to put on the best wrestling show possible - not book Maven vs. Snitsky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MillenniumMan831 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 I don't think the Benoit character cares about the other feuds going on Raw. He just wants the World Title. So him just having the other wrestlers decide who they want to face seems consistent w/ his character. He doesn't seem like the type to sit at his desk w/ a pen and paper and think of all these neat-o matches for the fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Maven was put in a passive position for most of his RAW. Did you ever get the feeling that HE was in control of the show? Ditto with Benoit. The feeling, at least the feeling I get from it, is that Evolution -particularly HHH- is controlling the show. The Maven-joining-Evolution storyline could have been done outside of him being GM of RAW, easily. There is so much potential in one guy tailor making a show to reflect what he wants in wrestling and they are completely wasting it with storylines that could be done any other day of the year. They are not making these RAWs special enough. I felt as if they went for passive with Maven though Rudo. He was too concerned with his "big decision" to properly run the show. I though in that aspect it made sense...........but Benoit's week made NO sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Really, the only thing here that is different from most RAWs is that HHH has to find new ways to squeek by. The show isn't "Will Orton beat HHH" or "What will Benoit do tonight" whatever, the show is "How will HHH get out of this one". Your right on the money with this though Rudo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 I don't think the Benoit character cares about the other feuds going on Raw. He just wants the World Title. So him just having the other wrestlers decide who they want to face seems consistent w/ his character. He doesn't seem like the type to sit at his desk w/ a pen and paper and think of all these neat-o matches for the fans. Benoit doesn't have to care about the feuds on RAW, he just has to care about putting on the best show possible. I think that *is* reflective of Benoit. Look at the Benoit DVD - it shows a well-rounded history of his career; he picked those matches. Benoit doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who says "ah, whatthefuckever" - he is focused; he prides himself on being the best. Why would he want to put together a substandard product? His reasoning of "not wanting to deal with the politics" is total bullshit, espcially when his response is essentially backing down and letting politics run free. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 I felt as if they went for passive with Maven though Rudo. He was too concerned with his "big decision" to properly run the show. I though in that aspect it made sense...........but Benoit's week made NO sense. Then, I ask, what was the point of giving him the RAWs for his own design if he wasn't going to "properly run the show"? Missed opportunity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Sandusky 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Why is a heel having to beat the odds every week. The most encouraging aspect of last night, to me anyway, was that HHH was frightened enough of Benoit to make up that whole plan to get out of a cage match with the guy. He was that sure he'd lose. And hey, HHH still hasn't gotten his singles win back yet. There's always that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted November 23, 2004 I felt as if they went for passive with Maven though Rudo. He was too concerned with his "big decision" to properly run the show. I though in that aspect it made sense...........but Benoit's week made NO sense. Then, I ask, what was the point of giving him the RAWs for his own design if he wasn't going to "properly run the show"? Missed opportunity. The main point for this would be that Triple H hit him with the invite to join Evolution because he knew it would throw a younger less experienced professional off course. Trips did it to throw a monkey wrench in the show for Maven. They made it clear several times in the show that Maven was clueless because this decision was constantly on his mind. They did a good job making Maven seem like the confused party while his decision was getting influenced by every angle (when the other faces came to him and asked him what he was going to do). This week they did a great job on building Bautista (like they did with Maven last week) but it was in vein as he was buried at the end of the show by Trips. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Rudo, you're reading into the shit way too much dude...I agree with what was said earlier, he doesn't give a shit about anything else but getting that title, it wouldn't make sense for him to sit back and say "hmmmm how can I make the fans LOVE this show and bring in those new viewers?" It was implied before S. Series when the stip. was added that these guys were gonna do exactly what they have done so far, look out for their own interests...the only problem anyone should have with last night was the bait and switch... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest M. Harry Smilac Report post Posted November 23, 2004 at least he does more than snort and snarl What like posing and flexing at the top of the ramp?Dressing nice? Hardly things i'd consider putting the strap on a guy for or to classify him as one of the top 5 bigmen of all time. Top 5 best dressed sure but that will only get you so far and not anywhere near the title unless your The Rock of which he had alot of other things that got him to the top that Batista is sorely lacking in every department right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 We are discussing two different things, DK. I am strictly speaking of Maven-as-GM-of-RAW, while you are looking at it as Maven-as-important-character-of-RAW. My point is, they have only one opportunity to do the GM thing with Maven and they spend the time doing THAT? They could have done that w.o. him being GM. They didn't personalize it, and whether you think the explanation for that with him is good is irrelevant because it destroys the whole concept of "GM for the day". It made the Survivor Series stipulation meaningless if they don't play it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Hosses I'd rank him with: Kane, UT, Big Show, Brock Hosses I wouldn't rank him with: Goldberg, A-Train, Nash, Test, Akeem, Earthquake, Giant Gonzalez etc. etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 A-Train is miles ahead of Batista and I'd probably put Goldberg above him too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Rudo, you're reading into the shit way too much dude...I agree with what was said earlier, he doesn't give a shit about anything else but getting that title, it wouldn't make sense for him to sit back and say "hmmmm how can I make the fans LOVE this show and bring in those new viewers?" No, It doesn't make sense for a guy who prides himself on being the best technical wrestler to put on a show like that. One would think that someone who prides himself on being the best would try to put on the best show possible. That someone who has been in wrestling for almost 20 years would know how to book a card. That someone who is precise and technical would put more effort in the details. Nope, not Benoit. "Let's just see where the wind blows" sez he. When I think of Benoit, that's what I think of - "carelessness". No wait, sorry, that's what I think of when I think of the WWE creative team. It was implied before S. Series when the stip. was added that these guys were gonna do exactly what they have done so far, look out for their own interests...the only problem anyone should have with last night was the bait and switch... It was said that the wrestlers would have total control over RAW. Does it look like they have total control over RAW? IT'S THE SAME SHOW. So unless you're fine with the message of "there is no distinguishing features between Chris Benoits idea of RAW and Mavens, and Eric Bischoffs", then there is certainly more than just that problem now isn't there? Wait, don't answer that... it requires you to think more than you may be accustomed to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 23, 2004 Brock was heads and shoulders above Batista in every department other than personal style. It's an insult to put the two anywhere together on any list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dynamite Kido Report post Posted November 23, 2004 We are discussing two different things, DK. I am strictly speaking of Maven-as-GM-of-RAW, while you are looking at it as Maven-as-important-character-of-RAW. My point is, they have only one opportunity to do the GM thing with Maven and they spend the time doing THAT? They could have done that w.o. him being GM. They didn't personalize it, and whether you think the explanation for that with him is good is irrelevant because it destroys the whole concept of "GM for the day". It made the Survivor Series stipulation meaningless if they don't play it up. My apologies. I see what you are saying now. Your right that they SS stip makes no sense if they don't take advantage of it. I'll fully admit that you are right on that aspect. They COULD have done that with Maven on any show, but instead they did it as a way for Evolution to get over on him like they did this week with Benoit. But, I would agree with your last post and I wouldn't debate anything you said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
