Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 11, 2005 Not "per 48 minutes". I was looking at assists overall at the Yahoo! site which had them "for qualified players", which I'd assume would be the playing time, which were the stats I posted earlier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted January 11, 2005 Not "per 48 minutes". I was looking at assists overall at the Yahoo! site which had them "for qualified players", which I'd assume would be the playing time, which were the stats I posted earlier. I got them here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 11, 2005 Ahh. I guess I just wasn't looking hard enough. I was looking at overall assists, and per game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alfdogg 0 Report post Posted January 11, 2005 Apparently Jermaine O'Neal broke his nose during his 55-point game against Milwaukee, which means he's played three games since before finally having it X-rayed this weekend. And to think all the idiots at InsideHoops were questioning his leadership. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alfdogg 0 Report post Posted January 11, 2005 ESPN Power Rankings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Flyboy Report post Posted January 11, 2005 Because ESPN has a hard-on for T-Mac, despite his absolute lack of knowledge of team basketball. That statement is quite amusing. Really, it is. More and more, I think fans who buy into the idea that just because a player is flashy, and thus lack fundamentals and "team basketball", need to be slapped repeatedly with a rolled up newspaper. That's quite a blanket statement, Al. I didn't say that flashy players weren't team-oriented; I said that this one in particular was. He's a me-first, stats-oriented guy, and has been since he came into the league. There's a reason why Toronto wasn't too broken up about not resigning him, and why Orlando was eager to get rid of him after signing him to that huge deal. Oh THAT is BS. Toronto WANTED him, but couldn't get him, because their then coach felt that he was more productive coming off the bench. Orlando...he carried them to playoff appearances, and shot the ball so much because he HAD to (I dare you to name their second offensive threat in any of those years......the closest thing is Darrel Fucking Armstrong) This year, Van Gundy finally had to pull him to the side and tell him to just shoot the ball and stop passing. I mean, the guy told T-Mac its okay if you take bad shots...just get some shots up. In other words, the coach had to literally beg him to take shots. That isn't the makings of a selfish, non-team oriented player. Anyone who has watched tracy mcgrady play and can honestly think that he isn't a fundamentally sound team player, i have to question your knowledge of basketball. because a team of scrubs and one really good player should never have a winning season, let alone make the playoffs and Tracy took the Orlando Magic there for 3 straight years. Thank you, Ripper. Somehow people will never understand that so I just let them live in their ignorance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nogoodnick 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Well Richard Jefferson is out for the season. He was having a great season and should be named to the All Star team anyways. Jefferson breaks wrist: Out for season That kinda kills a lot of fantasy teams including mine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Iverson and Bryant turn the ball over alot and also have poor shooting percentages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Iverson and Bryant turn the ball over alot and also have poor shooting percentages. I've refuted the turnover statistic before. Bryant and Iverson of course will rack up many turnovers, simply because they are the primary offensive options for their team. They turn the ball over often because they carry the ball often. If you view turnovers as a percentage of possessions, they do NOT turn the ball over more often than other players. In fact, they turn it over much less. As for shooting percentage, I cannot vouch for Bryant, but Iverson's shooting percentages hurts from the problems that, A. he is attempting to shoot the ball over players who are almost always talller, and B. he makes the shot at the end of the shot clock, that no one else can even attempt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Bryant isn't a team player. If he didn't have to dominate the ball all the time, maybe his turnovers would be down. It's not like he has bad teammates or anything because Lamar Odom is a pretty talented guy. Iverson usually has bad teammates but that's partially because he can't coexist with another scorer on his team. He HAS to be the man. That's not a team player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Electrifyer 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Hornets win back to back? This ain't right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Precious Roy 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Iverson usually has bad teammates but that's partially because he can't coexist with another scorer on his team. He HAS to be the man. That's not a team player. That's bullshit. Iverson, when he came in, wasn't as wise about the game or as in control as he is now. He had a total scoring mentality and was without question a two guard. The 76ers had Jerry Stackhouse, another young high volume scorer at the same position. Stack couldn't play the 1 or 2. They couldn't play both of them, Stackhouse had to go. That was just inconvenient for Philly, as they had to take Iverson #1 in the draft, maybe Ray Allen or Marbury, and probably wouldn't have drafted Stackhouse in 95 if they'd known they'd get the number one pick with a great guard class a year later. Then they brought in Larry Hughes, an Iverson clone, very immature and inconsistent until recently, hoping that he or Ivereson could play point. Neither could. Now Iverson has experience and maturity, the guy runs the point position very well. He still puts up 26 a night, because that's what this current 6ers team needs him to do. If they had an Antawn Jamison, Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Webber, Richard Jefferson on offense he would get them the rock and let them do their thing, no doubt, they just haven't been able to find a guy like that, a dynamic frontcourt player. They thought Dalembert was it but he's aparently regressing. Iverson has turned Marc Jackson and Kyle Korver into consistent offense players, somewhat of a surprise. Those are the best scoring options on the roster behind Iverson, Iguodala and Willie Green are too inconsistent. The other guys the 6ers have put next to Iverson were Keith Van Horn and Glenn Robinson. Van Horn played fine, the same way he always does, the 6ers front office decided to move him, for the same reasons every other front office decides to move him. Big Dog? He was totally one-dimensional and pretty much washed up by the time he got to Philly. Without both Ray Allen and Sam Cassell to take the pressure off him he couldn't get his spots, that was probably the best backcourt in basketball at the time. Snow-Iverson had a different dynamic and he couldn't deal with it, his game got exposed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Report post Posted January 12, 2005 How has Iverson shown that he's wiser or more in control? He still turns the ball over alot, takes bad shots and he's a point guard that leads the league in shot attempts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cuban Linx 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Hornets win back to back? This ain't right. Damn, one of my hopes out of the season was to see the Hornets set a new standard for ineptitude and go even worse than Philadelphia's 8 win season, with those two wins they now have to go something like 3-46 over the rest of the season to pull it off, and unfortunately as bad as they are i don't think even the Hornets are that bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Precious Roy 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 How has Iverson shown that he's wiser or more in control? He still turns the ball over alot, takes bad shots and he's a point guard that leads the league in shot attempts. Do you watch the games? He runs his team well on the floor, but as has been said, they don't have much talent around him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Precious Roy 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 2004-05 Regular Season Turnovers Per Game Player G TO TPG 1. Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers) 32 149 4.66 2. Allen Iverson (Philadelphia 76ers) 31 128 4.13 3. Richard Jefferson (New Jersey Nets) 33 132 4.00 4. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat) 34 135 3.97 5. Steve Francis (Orlando Magic) 33 128 3.88 6. Antoine Walker (Atlanta Hawks) 31 113 3.65 7. Carmelo Anthony (Denver Nuggets) 27 97 3.59 8. Jamaal Tinsley (Indiana Pacers) 27 93 3.44 9. Corey Maggette (Los Angeles Clippers) 29 97 3.34 10. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 32 105 3.28 11. Stephon Marbury (New York Knicks) 34 109 3.21 12. Steve Nash (Phoenix Suns) 34 108 3.18 Wow, a lot of good guards have high turnover numbers, how shocking! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 I've watched Iverson for years. He's not turnover prone. Like I've written many times before (even on TSM's main page), the list of league leaders in turnovers is entirely meaningless. If you look at the leaders, you will find a list of players among the best in basketball. Last year's leaders included Paul Pierce, Steve Francis, Lebron James, Stephon Marbury, Carmelo Anthony, and Zach Randolph. That doesn't make sense. You have to look at turnovers as a rate stat, alongside possessions. When you do that, the most turnover prone players appear to be backup centers. Clumsy big men who are in the NBA primarily because of their size. Now, which group is more indicative of turnover prone players? Iverson hoists some bad shots, and his shooting is not the best. But that's not his primary skill. The key of Iverson is that he has many secondary skills that make him a valuable player. He can create shots, he's quick, and he's the best ball handler I have ever seen. He takes alot of shots, because he can take shots that other players can not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Steve Nash is averaging 11 assists per game and his team is on track to tie the Bulls for most wins in a season. I'll take his 3 turnovers a game. Dwayne Wade is a second year player and will get better. His team is also the best team in the East right now. He also averages more points per shot than Iverson does too. Where are the rest of the good guards on that list? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 12, 2005 EDIT: wrong thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Steve Nash is averaging 11 assists per game and his team is on track to tie the Bulls for most wins in a season. I really don't want this to happen and in my heart, I don't think it will. These are not the 1996 Chicago Bulls. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripper 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Steve Nash is averaging 11 assists per game and his team is on track to tie the Bulls for most wins in a season. I'll take his 3 turnovers a game. Dwayne Wade is a second year player and will get better. His team is also the best team in the East right now. He also averages more points per shot than Iverson does too. Where are the rest of the good guards on that list? Jason Kidd was leading the league in turnovers for a few years, and he will be on that list as he plays more. Players that touch the ball every play will have lots of turnover. Turnovers per game and the per 48 minutes stats are the most usless stats in basketball. At the end of the day, Allen Iverson carried the sixers on his 6 foot frame to the finals with their second best player being Aaron Mckie. Aaron FUCKING Mckie. Tracy Mcgrady did it with Darrell Armstrong. Kobe Bryant is on a team that is 3 players deep...well...two and a half(Caron Butler is pretty inconsistant.) I mean seriously, where they supposed to win the championship after they acquired Chris Mihm(who is having his best season BTW) I still say Allen iverson is the most unjustly critisized player in the league, now that everyone has gotten off of Kevin Garrnett. Tracy McGrady is making a run at the title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripper 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Oh yeah...the suns beat the ever loving shit out of the heat....rejoice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 fuck, the Knicks lost to the Hornets....time to write this season off... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cuban Linx 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Has there ever been a division winner with a losing record before? This years Atlantic division could certainly pull it off, at least one of NY, Philly and Boston should probably get their act together but they go from looking gold one game to looking like total shit the next so much all three of them failing to reach 42 wins wouldn't surprise me too much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 that just shows you how lopsided and diluted the NBA product is....a losing team could win their division and become the 3 seed with home court advantage??? HUH??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Yeah. Division seeding has gotta go. I think at some point in the NHL last year, Atlanta had the 3 seed leading a weak Southleast but would miss the playoffs if you just too the best eight in the East. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alfdogg 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2005 Pacers pull one out against Memphis after trailing virtually the whole game. Next up, the Suns again on Friday... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Flyboy Report post Posted January 12, 2005 I still say Allen iverson is the most unjustly critisized player in the league, now that everyone has gotten off of Kevin Garrnett. Tracy McGrady is making a run at the title. I'm pretty sure he's won it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2005 And the Jazz beat the Suns??!?!?!?!? What has happened to my team? They're rocking again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Precious Roy 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2005 I'd say Sloan publicly challenging Okur has had something to do with it. Too bad Arroyo can't get out of his doghouse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
