Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 21, 2005 I keep hearing a repeating theme throughout this thread about McNabb being labeled a choker if he loses. Explain how McNabb, and McNabb alone, will have been responsible for his team choking in the past couple title games, especially without the weapons on offense that he's never had, and still won't this Sunday with TO being out. McNabb's excelled in his career at pulling out wins out of his ass when the Eagles have needed him the most, so you can't really blame him as much as his receivers for choking in the big games, at least on the offensive side of the ball. The Eagles have a ton of big game experience, and homefield advantage on their side. I hate to be repeating my same argument about BenRo, but even though he's playing at home, the Steelers were in this very same position in the 2001 season, and lost to a Patriots team that won based on special teams and has only gotten better in the other two aspects of the game, and held Peyton Manning and Co. to 3 points. Yes, it's not as easy to run the ball on the Steelers as on the Colts (even if their defense was improving) so the TOP might not be there, but that has to be slightly intimidating for a rookie in a high-pressure game like this going up against a defense that shut down an offense much better than Pittsburgh's (and that's no knock on the Steelers, either but we all know how well the Colts offense had played this season). Also take into account that had the Steelers lost last week, the game would have been pinned squarely on BenRo's shoulders since he made the two critical turnovers that should have given the Jets the win. For a rookie to rebound from that going up against one of the most well designed and coached defenses in NFL history for the right to go to the Super Bowl is an infinitely more daunting task than for an Eagles team that should have gotten over the proverbial hump some time ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 He's also the quarterback of a 15-1 team where everything else is in place. If McNabb loses, they can easily blame it on the TO injury. If the Steelers lose, mark my words, it will solely be because of Ben Roethlisberger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripper 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 I don't know. Cause McNabb can have a great game individually and still not win, I don't think he would be labeled a choker. I think that all of the shit will hit Reid then. If we see another "pass drop-o-rama" like the last few years from the receivers, westbrook gets shut down, I don't see Donovan getting all the flak. Besides. Tod Pinkston is RIGHT there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 McNabb, obviously. Brady doesn't have anything to prove, and the other two are playing in their first conference title game. If the Eagles lose this game, they would be lumped in with the Buffalo Bills of the sporting world (only worse, because they never actually made it to the biggest game). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 I voted McNabb obviously. Brady has his rings and Vick is the underdog and going on the road to face a better team, so he can afford to lose. Roethlisberger has some pressure, but nothing like having the weight of three consecutive title game losses on your back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 I went with McNabb, but Tyler's right regarding BenRo -- every week it seemed idiotic Steeler fans were looking for what was wrong with the team rather than the 14 straight regular season wins. If Ben has a bad game he has a bad game. Life will go on. It'll be interesting to see how Bettis plays -- the Pats shut him down back in '01, although I think at the time Jerome was coming off a groin injury... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MARTYEWR 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 I'd go with McNabb. If he (and the Eagles) lose a fourth straight conference championship game, the offseason in Philly will be veddy interesting... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lightning Flik 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 Its McNabb. Sure, the whole team can be blamed, but the McNabb has to be able to carry his team to the promise land. That's what a good QB can do after a period of time and that period of time is here and now. Sure the whole team will take heat for a 4th loss, but all the pressure is on McNabb as he's been here 4 times. He's supposed to be the leader of the Eagles and is supposed to set the tone and the example. Brady's been there and done that, so its alright if he fails. Both Vick and Ben get automatic pass overs due to the fact that neither of their teams were supposed to click this well after coming off of last season. Hell, I don't understand how Pittsburgh could give any flack to Ben considering its his first season playing as a pro and he's shown that he's something special when he's on his game. No offense Tyler, but your city is nutters to call for heads to roll just because of a rookie QB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 21, 2005 You don't understand. If the Steelers had lost last week, it would have been entirely Ben's fault. The Eagles have a number of things they can point at if they lose, it's not just McNabb. It doesn't make any sense to say that if they were playing in their first conference title game, they would have less pressure on them. What the fuck? If the Eagles lose, they can look at a number of things since most of them are veterans and have been part of the 3 straight NFC Championship losses. It's not just McNabb, and he won't be a choker if they lose this game alone, besides do you really think the Eagles are honestly buying into that whole crap? Real athletes rely on their confidence to perform well in high pressure situations, something the Eagles have quite possibly more than any of the other teams playing this weekend. Why? Because they've been at that spot more than the rest. They have the big game experience. But the Steelers have noone else they can blame other than the rookie, and maybe, MAYBE Cowher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 While it would not be McNabb losing the games himself, he is still the franchise player on the team that lost 4 straight title games. If the Steelers lost, they are losing to the 2 out of 3 year Super Bowl champions, with a rookie QB who is trying to make history by being the first rookie QB to ever go to the SB. Steelers fans will have next year to look forward to with a more experienced Roethlisberger. Eagles fans will wonder what god has against us and missing TO will not justify it because they are a better team than the Falcons and should win anyway. I think you are seriously underrating what the reaction in Philly is going to be if the Eagles lose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 I dunno if McNabb has choked in ALL of these conf. games, but let's take a look shall we: 1st game, Rams. Eagles were only 11-5 compared to the Rams being 14-2, so this is hardly a choke. Played them tough, lost by 5. 2nd game, Bucs. This is the biggest choke. Eagles were down 10 and driving, and would have made an interesting game had they scored. Instead McNabb throws a goal line INT to Ronde Barber that is returned 100 yards for a TD...game. 3rd game, Panthers. I'm torn on this one. I mean yeah, he got hurt with broken ribs, but still...losing 14-3 to a team they'd beaten in the reg. season? Ouch. So while McNabb might not have choked in all those games he's kinda like a guy with a dark cloud hanging over his head. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 McNabb by a LONG LONG LONG shot. Brady has practically none. Vick doesn't have much. Roethlisberger isn't the focal point of the offense anyway... But McNabb is at home against the worst of the remaning 4 teams trying to not go 0-4. Tons O Pressure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C Dubya 04 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 I agree that McNabb has the most pressure on him, but I also think that he is most apt to succeed this weekend. Vick is too one dimentional to go against a good defense, Rothsihsksljburger has the thumb thing and the Pats D thing in his way, and Brady will probably play safe and use Dillon a lot. So, McNabb definitely has the most pressure, but it won't end up making a difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 21, 2005 I dunno if McNabb has choked in ALL of these conf. games, but let's take a look shall we: 1st game, Rams. Eagles were only 11-5 compared to the Rams being 14-2, so this is hardly a choke. Played them tough, lost by 5. 2nd game, Bucs. This is the biggest choke. Eagles were down 10 and driving, and would have made an interesting game had they scored. Instead McNabb throws a goal line INT to Ronde Barber that is returned 100 yards for a TD...game. 3rd game, Panthers. I'm torn on this one. I mean yeah, he got hurt with broken ribs, but still...losing 14-3 to a team they'd beaten in the reg. season? Ouch. So while McNabb might not have choked in all those games he's kinda like a guy with a dark cloud hanging over his head. I think last year's choke was much worse than the Bucs one. Apparently not many people recall how dominant the `02 Bucs were, not just on defense, but also with a surging offense that wouldn't have been in place had Gruden not taken over the team. I believe they had the #1 seed that year as well, though I could be wrong on that one. Out of all these teams, the Falcons are probably the worst, but Philly fans need not blame McNabb for the loss unless he tanks the game and starts throwing INT's like there's no tommorrow. Which could happen if he has to throw a lot, since his arm doesn't have NFL-caliber conditioning, a pretty well-known fact around the league. If the Falcons start running the clock on them, Philly may feel pressured to start throwing the ball more, so that could be major pressure on McNabb. I still can't fathom how you guys are dismissing the task that Roethlisberger has in front of him this Sunday. If the Steelers lost, they are losing to the 2 out of 3 year Super Bowl champions, with a rookie QB who is trying to make history by being the first rookie QB to ever go to the SB. Wouldn't that be cause for even MORE pressure on him to win? These guys aren't looking ahead to what would happen if they lost. The question of being under pressure to win comes in what lies before them as of now, not on Monday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 Stop making excuses for the kid. He has no thumb injury. Regardless of whether he's the "focal point" of the offense or not, regardless of whether it would be "stupid" for Steeler fans to jump on Ben if they lose to the 15 time omg dynasty champions, they will. There is a strong feeling throughout the Steel city that this team could have been competing for the Super Bowl for the last five years, and quarterback play has been holding them back. Look what happened this year! The team started off mediocre, was expected to be mediocre, and they put in that hot 1st round pick. Hey, why not rattle off 15 wins in a row while you're at it? Ben Roethlisberger is the savior of the Pittsburgh Steelers, but if they don't make it to the Super Bowl, he will be seen as a failure. Don't understand the logic? Neither do I. But that doesn't make it any less fact. Pittsburgh will crucify the guy if they don't at least lose in fashion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 I don't see it as more pressure, because not as much is expected of him. If they lose there are plenty of valid reasons (losing to the Pats [the best team in years] and the fact he still is a rookie [no matter how good of a rookie he has been]). If McNabb loses, there is nothing. Pointing at TO will not be sufficient and no one is going to care about the receivers not showing up again (at some point McNabb has to be able to take over this game or else he is choking). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripper 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 Stop making excuses for the kid. He has no thumb injury. Regardless of whether he's the "focal point" of the offense or not, regardless of whether it would be "stupid" for Steeler fans to jump on Ben if they lose to the 15 time omg dynasty champions, they will. There is a strong feeling throughout the Steel city that this team could have been competing for the Super Bowl for the last five years, and quarterback play has been holding them back. Look what happened this year! The team started off mediocre, was expected to be mediocre, and they put in that hot 1st round pick. Hey, why not rattle off 15 wins in a row while you're at it? Ben Roethlisberger is the savior of the Pittsburgh Steelers, but if they don't make it to the Super Bowl, he will be seen as a failure. Don't understand the logic? Neither do I. But that doesn't make it any less fact. Pittsburgh will crucify the guy if they don't at least lose in fashion. It took them 2 years to crucify Maddox. Maybe it was out of fear that Kordell Stewart was going to be back on the field, but still... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 But that doesn't make it any less fact. Pittsburgh will crucify the guy if they don't at least lose in fashion. This sentence is a great description of the pressure each faces. BenRo can afford to lose in style, McNabb can afford to lose under no circumstance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 Not necessarily true. After 2002, which was his first year, the rumblings began right after they lost to a much better Titans team in the divisional round. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 The big topic for Steeler fans is will wearing a glove affect Ben's play. Christ almighty I hate sports fans. At least they make for a good laugh when Mark Madden makes fun of them... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gert T 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 Maddox may have been exempt for awhile though due to the severity of his injury (at the time) against the Titans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 Out of curiosity, haven't the Philly media been going after Reid this week? I know for damned sure that the Trib and Post Gazette have been all over Roethlisberger this week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 If the Steelers lose one good thing that will come out of this is the end to the retarded radio sound bite that calls Pittsburgh "Roethlis-Burg." This alone is making me hope the Pats win... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 The Philly media hasn't really been going after anyone this week. There are a few dipshits coughStevenA.Smithcough who are trying to blame the fans for last year's loss "oh the fans were too negative and it rubbed off on the players" and are already setting up to blame the fans if the Eagles lose this week. But there have been a lot of articles talking about how the players don't care about the history, blah blah blah, a whole lot of let's not talk about what has happened and it might go away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 The Pittsburgh media hasn't been going after him, per se, but they've been positioning themselves to do so. There have been lots of stories about "redemption" and the glove, and "he was terrible, but he gets another chance to prove himself as not-a-choker" type stuff. They will turn on him if he doesn't win this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 21, 2005 At least we can all agree that BenRo and McNabb are the ones with the most pressure on them this weekend, which is ironic considering they're the ones playing with homefield advantage. I don't see it as more pressure, because not as much is expected of him. If they lose there are plenty of valid reasons (losing to the Pats [the best team in years] and the fact he still is a rookie [no matter how good of a rookie he has been]). The reasons you're coming up with to support your argument that he'll have less pressure, are actually further argument for him having MORE pressure on him to win this weekend. I guess it depends on how you look at those things. The Pats are an intimidating team, and being a rookie, all eyes are on you to see if you'll fuck up or not. You can also use the same thing as excuses for the loss, but that doesn't change the fact that the one variable in Pittsburgh when it comes to beating New England is if he'll tank the same way he did against the Jets last week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 The reasons show why a loss is more acceptable for Pittsburgh than Philly. Look at Tyler's statement. If BenRo loses, but plays decent people will accept him. If McNabb loses, there is no reason on earth that will protect him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 21, 2005 Yes, but the flaw in your argument is if he plays decent. What if he doesn't? The pressure comes before the game, the blame comes after. BenRo has a lot more to be worried about than McNabb does, considering both of their experience, and the teams they're going up against. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2005 But even if he doesn't play decent, if they lose he is still a rookie. The Pittsburgh media will get over it. If McNabb loses, in any fashion, he becomes one of the biggest losers of all time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted January 21, 2005 But it won't solely be because of McNabb. The Eagles have plenty of other holes and people they can blame. The Steelers have an amazing rushing attack, the #1 defense in the NFL, and a coach salivating for his first Super Bowl win. If the Eagles lose, the blame doesn't fall solely on McNabb, regardless of him being the leader of the team or not- it gets equally spread around from the coaches, to the offense, defense, special teams, maybe even the waterboys. If Pittsburgh doesn't win this week, it will be because of Roethlisberger and for no other reason other than Belichick outcoaching Cowher, which is another possibility. Just look at last week's game versus the Jets. They lost that game almost completely because of Ben. The defense held New York without a TD, the special teams was slightly inconsistent (in that the coverage sucked on one big play, but got it done in OT), and the running game was doing well enough. BenRo should have lost that game if it weren't for Doug Brien. McNabb has the excuse of playing without TO, and a defense that had gotten criticized for not holding up against the run (at least until they made the switch with Trotter). Rookie or not, Ben still won all those games in a row. Losing right now would be a deathwish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
