RAW World Title changes at houseshows

[haws bah gawd 0]

Randy Orton beat HHH for the RAW title at each houseshow this past weekend, but the decisions were all reversed.

 

Think anything similar to this will happen at the Rumble?

 

credit: LordsofPain.net

[res37618 0]

Randy Orton beat HHH for the RAW title at each houseshow this past weekend, but the decisions were all reversed. 

 

Think anything similar to this will happen at the Rumble?

 

credit: LordsofPain.net

Yep, it's pretty much commonplace for them to "test" a match finish at a house show in order to see what kind of pop it will earn.

 

I'd be anxious to see/hear what kind of reaction it got when the fans though they'd seen HHH lose.

 

One of two match finishes will happen at the Rumble:

 

1) Randy will "win" the title, and a Dusty Finish will change the belt back to HHH

or

2) HHH wins after Flair interference. Same old, same old - pedigree for the pin.

 

Batista wins the Rumble, and the plan is set in motion for HHH/Batista at WM21.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

If WWE is trying to start killing a few towns each weekend, they are off to a great start.

[KingPK 0]

This really isn't new. I remember hearing house shows leading up to either Summerslam or Wrestlemania X where Luger wins the title, only to have the decision reversed.

 

They should try it with Big Dave, since him winning will probably get the bigger reaction.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

They should try it with Big Dave, since him winning will probably get the bigger reaction.

I wouldn't even tease something like that. Dave shouldn't be announced as World Champion, for even five seconds, before he actually wins the World Title for real. It's one thing to tease a normal upper midcard type as winning the World Title, but doing it with the guy who is actually going to win the title for real, to me, takes something away from the moment he actually does do it for real.

[cawthon777 0]

This really isn't new. I remember hearing house shows leading up to either Summerslam or Wrestlemania X where Luger wins the title, only to have the decision reversed.

He didn't so much win it as he stole it from Cornette and McMahon announced him as champion to test the crowd reaction.

 

This kind of stuff really isn't a big deal. It has happened pretty freqently. IIRC, even Nash "won" the title from Trips in 03 just for the same outcome to occur.

[SuperJerk 0]

Am I the only one who thinks Orton should win the title at the Royal Rumble, then turn heel the next night on Raw?

 

If they were going to do that, this might be a good test for reaction.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

IIRC, even Nash "won" the title from Trips in 03 just for the same outcome to occur.

The Dusty Finish in a World Title match is bad enough, but when WWE returned to Portland after over 10 years away, they did that finish in the Hunter v Nash main event, which was mind blowingly stupid. It's your first time back in a major market for over a decade, and you fuck with the fans by giving them a fake World Title change. It wasn't even done to build to a rematch of any kind. They just did it to swerve people for no reason, other than to swerve them.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Am I the only one who thinks Orton should win the title at the Royal Rumble, then turn heel the next night on Raw?

 

If they were going to do that, this might be a good test for reaction.

That would be a really bad idea. If Hunter is dropping the World Title to Batista at WM XXI, then he'd have to get the belt right back, and a quickie title change right now, when they've only just filled the vacancy, would take even more edge off of the World Title, and they absolutely should not be doing that. For better or for worse for the long term, right now, Hunter, as World Champion, needs to be kept strong so it means more when he loses the title to Batistia.

[SuperJerk 0]

Am I the only one who thinks Orton should win the title at the Royal Rumble, then turn heel the next night on Raw?

 

If they were going to do that, this might be a good test for reaction.

That would be a really bad idea. If Hunter is dropping the World Title to Batista at WM XXI, then he'd have to get the belt right back, and a quickie title change right now, when they've only just filled the vacancy, would take even more edge off of the World Title, and they absolutely should not be doing that. For better or for worse for the long term, right now, Hunter, as World Champion, needs to be kept strong so it means more when he loses the title to Batistia.

The idea I was trying to convey was that the HHH/Batista feud shouldn't be for the title.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The idea I was trying to convey was that the HHH/Batista feud shouldn't be for the title.

Why ?

 

Batista beating Hunter at WM XXI would be big, but beating Hunter for the World Title at WM XXI would be even bigger, and if you're strapping a rocket to someone, you don't half ass it.

[SuperJerk 0]

I see your point, but longterm-wise there's nothing they can do with the guy once he wins the belt.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I see your point, but longterm-wise there's nothing they can do with the guy once he wins the belt.

Why ?

 

One possible scenario: Batista wins the belt, beats the piss out of everyone for a year which the people go nuts for. Meanwhile, a face/heel gets built up and built up for a year, all the while staying away from Batista. Then, come the Rumble, this wrestler wins the Rumble, faces Batista at WM XXII, and beats him for the belt. Batista gets over with a year long reign that the people, presumably, would go nuts for, and the unnamed wrestler gets over for being the guy to finally end the reign of the beast that is Batista.

 

Hunter might not like that idea, because it means him not being the top guy for an extend period, but Batista would go for it, because he'd be in the Billy Graham role.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I'm still hoping Orton gets the title, Batista and Helmsley have their little match of their own at Mania leaving Randy with the honor of defending the title at the big show against sombody like I dunno, Edge?

[cawthon777 0]

I see your point, but longterm-wise there's nothing they can do with the guy once he wins the belt.

Why ?

 

One possible scenario: Batista wins the belt, beats the piss out of everyone for a year which the people go nuts for. Meanwhile, a face/heel gets built up and built up for a year, all the while staying away from Batista. Then, come the Rumble, this wrestler wins the Rumble, faces Batista at WM XXII, and beats him for the belt. Batista gets over with a year long reign that the people, presumably, would go nuts for, and the unnamed wrestler gets over for being the guy to finally end the reign of the beast that is Batista.

 

Hunter might not like that idea, because it means him not being the top guy for an extend period, but Batista would go for it, because he'd be in the Billy Graham role.

Another possible scenario is that Batista wins the belt and within 2 months is exposed as a Diesel clone where the people like him but he can't carry the company on his shoulders.

 

I enjoy Batista, I just don't see him being the top guy.

[clean rob 0]

I enjoy Batista, I just don't see him being the top guy.

I was going to say something very similar - then I remembered how long Bradshaw has been champ for.

 

I do have a feeling that the reason people are clamouring for Big Dave right now is only because they can't wait to see him finally beat up HHH. Once that happens, I don't think they'll be able to maintain the momentum. I'd like to see me proved wrong though.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Another possible scenario is that Batista wins the belt and within 2 months is exposed as a Diesel clone where the people like him but he can't carry the company on his shoulders.

.

That's a good point, that has really been overlooked in this whole deal. Batista has flaws, which are not a bad thing per se, but if he wins the World Title, the kind of push he'll undoubtedly get will greatly expose those flaws. Right now, as part of a group, Batista's weaknesses are being hidden, but when he's the top guy on Raw, he'll be expected to do things that he quite simply doesn't have the ability to do.

 

The top guy on Raw, which he will be pushed as, is expected to do lengthy main event caliber interviews, and Batista just isn't at that level on the mic. He might get there, and he'd probably get there quicker if he doesn't have to learn in the spotlight, but once he's the top guy, he'd better get there real fast, or people will see that his mic work isn't at the top level.

 

Secondly, they're going to want 15-20 minute matches out of him, especially when he's facing Hunter, and Batista is going to have to be carried through matches of that length, and Raw doesn't have enough variety of people who can both do that and be accepted as World Title challengers. He'd do better on top if he would be allowed to do 10-12 minute matches, that capitalize on his strengths and hide his weaknesses, but Hunter, who he'll invariably spend most of his time wrestling against, is dead set on doing long matches, regardless of whether it's the best thing to do, and I don't think Hunter can get a good World Title level match out of Batista if it goes over 15 minutes.

 

Batista does have the potential to grow into a main event level player on the mic, and I think he can improve in the ring to where he can carry his end of World Title level matches that go as long as Vince and co want in their top players. The problem is, by the time he gets to that level, the window of opportunity with him will have closed, and if they wait until then to pull the trigger, they won't get as much out of it, at least in the short term, than if they pull the trigger now.

 

It really is double-edged sword, and I don't have enough faith in WWE that they'll do things the right way. They'll push him as the top guy right now, and they won't be able to stop themselves from pushing him, in their minds, the 'right way' for a top guy, and they'll expose his weakness before Batista has had a chance to improve enough to work in the position they want him in.

[Jericholic82 0]

I think for once they should do a world title change at a houseshow, just to show the fans that anything can happen and maybe boost the houseshow attendance

 

 

yknow orton wins title, then has to defend aganist hhh at rumble where trips wins it back.

 

They did a similar thing in 94 by having the 123 kid and marty jannetty win the tag titles on a raw then lose them back at a houseshow the next week

 

 

 

 

 

woohoo 800 POSTS

 

 

does the dude love dance to celebrate

[Enigma 0]

Nice swerve topic.

 

*sigh*

[iliketurtles 0]

Orton needs to lose the match with HHH, get fired by Bischoff mid-show, hired by Teddy Long, then attack the Undertaker in his casket match.

 

Then enter the Rumble as a SD competitor and start a feud with Taker for Mania.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

If you think Batista can't carry the company because of workrate, you're flat out wrong.

 

This is the year where they took the strap off of Eddie Guerrero, put it on Bradshaw AND THE RATINGS AND BUYRATES IMPROVED.

[Toxxic 0]

If you think Batista can't carry the company because of workrate, you're flat out wrong.

 

This is the year where they took the strap off of Eddie Guerrero, put it on Bradshaw AND THE RATINGS AND BUYRATES IMPROVED.

I haven't been following the figures but if this man is right, Batista could well become God for the WWE.

[Si82 0]

If you think Batista can't carry the company because of workrate, you're flat out wrong.

 

This is the year where they took the strap off of Eddie Guerrero, put it on Bradshaw AND THE RATINGS AND BUYRATES IMPROVED.

When did this happen?

 

I mean, didn't No Mercy and Armageddon draw the worst PPV buy-rates in WWE history?

 

I can't believe I've just typed that, it's like something Michael Cole would say.

[claydude14 0]

If you think Batista can't carry the company because of workrate, you're flat out wrong.

 

This is the year where they took the strap off of Eddie Guerrero, put it on Bradshaw AND THE RATINGS AND BUYRATES IMPROVED.

When did this happen?

 

I mean, didn't No Mercy and Armageddon draw the worst PPV buy-rates in WWE history?

 

I can't believe I've just typed that, it's like something Michael Cole would say.

The early buyrate for the Armageddon PPV on December 12 is said to be around 235,000 buys. While that is the lowest number the show has ever done, that number is up from what the No Mercy PPV drew in October.

 

Credit: Dave Scherer @ PWInsider.com

 

Yea I don't know if I'd consider 'up from No Mercy' to be that outstanding, but I'm not sure what else it compares to.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If you think Batista can't carry the company because of workrate, you're flat out wrong.

 

This is the year where they took the strap off of Eddie Guerrero, put it on Bradshaw AND THE RATINGS AND BUYRATES IMPROVED.

If you think Batista can't carry the company because of workrate, you're flat out wrong.

 

No, you are flat out wrong. Batista isn't bad in the ring, not by a long shot, but as a WWE main event level wrestler he can't cut the mustard. I'll reiterate what I said earlier has it appears you didn't notice it the first time. WWE fans expect a certain level of work in the main event scene, and Batista just is not good enough to work at that level. Could he be carried to it ? Sure. But there aren't enough people who can do that and be accepted in that main event spot. Can Batista get to that level ? Yes. But he'll find it easier and quicker to get there without the pressure of being in the top spot. As an overall package, Batista is not main event level yet. That's just how it is. And if he gets put in the spotlight before he is at that level, which he can get to, then he'll either have to improve like crazy, or he'll flop, and flop big.

 

This is the year where they took the strap off of Eddie Guerrero, put it on Bradshaw AND THE RATINGS AND BUYRATES IMPROVED.

 

Smackdown got its worst rating ever under Bradshaw's watch. And buy rates, up until Armageddon, were sinking like a stone under Bradshaw's watch. Not to mention some really shitty house show attendances.

[BHK 0]

Batista is going over Hunter for the World Heavyweight Title at Wrestlemania XXI. Bank on it.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

If you think Batista can't carry the company because of workrate, you're flat out wrong.

 

This is the year where they took the strap off of Eddie Guerrero, put it on Bradshaw AND THE RATINGS AND BUYRATES IMPROVED.

If you think Batista can't carry the company because of workrate, you're flat out wrong.

 

No, you are flat out wrong. Batista isn't bad in the ring, not by a long shot, but as a WWE main event level wrestler he can't cut the mustard. I'll reiterate what I said earlier has it appears you didn't notice it the first time. WWE fans expect a certain level of work in the main event scene, and Batista just is not good enough to work at that level. Could he be carried to it ? Sure. But there aren't enough people who can do that and be accepted in that main event spot. Can Batista get to that level ? Yes. But he'll find it easier and quicker to get there without the pressure of being in the top spot. As an overall package, Batista is not main event level yet. That's just how it is. And if he gets put in the spotlight before he is at that level, which he can get to, then he'll either have to improve like crazy, or he'll flop, and flop big.

 

This is the year where they took the strap off of Eddie Guerrero, put it on Bradshaw AND THE RATINGS AND BUYRATES IMPROVED.

 

Smackdown got its worst rating ever under Bradshaw's watch. And buy rates, up until Armageddon, were sinking like a stone under Bradshaw's watch. Not to mention some really shitty house show attendances.

No, sorry. You're wrong, pal.

 

Eddie got SD!'s worst rating ever, and recent SD ratings have been close to RAW's. Workrate just isn't a factor, because the WWE can quite frankly push whoever they'd like as Champ and keep the same fanbase. The same die hards will keep on watching.

 

Batista's workrate is adaquete for Champ. This isn't a matter up for debate. Financial stability is the only factor important as to whether someone can be Champion or not. Right now financially, one wrestler's as good as another.

 

This isn't an opinion thing, you can look it up yourself.

[Dark Age 0]

Shut up, apologist.

[humongous2002 0]

WWE management haven't realized that nobody cares about Orton except for teenage girls and guys with questionable gender preferences.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

No, sorry. You're wrong, pal.

 

Eddie got SD!'s worst rating ever, and recent SD ratings have been close to RAW's. Workrate just isn't a factor, because the WWE can quite frankly push whoever they'd like as Champ and keep the same fanbase. The same die hards will keep on watching.

 

Batista's workrate is adaquete for Champ. This isn't a matter up for debate. Financial stability is the only factor important as to whether someone can be Champion or not. Right now financially, one wrestler's as good as another.

 

This isn't an opinion thing, you can look it up yourself.

Actually, we're both wrong. SD's worst rating was for the July 4th SD in 2002. However, discounting that, because it was a holiday number, the worst regular SD rating was a 2.5 for the September 2nd 2004 SD. Guess who was champion then ? I'll give you a hint; it wasn't Eddie Guerrero.

 

Workrate isn't a big factor, true, but, all other factors being equal, a good worker will likely do better than a bad one, purely because people will be educated to expect a good/entertaining match from the guy.

 

As for:

 

WWE can quite frankly push whoever they'd like as Champ and keep the same fanbase. The same die hards will keep on watching.

 

Shame the fact that, for October to December on SD, JBL was a negative ratings draw blows that assumption out of the water.

 

Batista's workrate is adaquete for Champ.

 

Not really. It's 'adaquete' for his current position, but put him in the top spot, and the fans are going to expect a level of work that he can't put out right now. In time, he probably could rise to a World Champion level worker, or at least be made to look like one.

 

Financial stability is the only factor important as to whether someone can be Champion or not. Right now financially, one wrestler's as good as another.

 

If that were the case, which it isn't, they wouldn't be strapping a rocket Batista. They'd be content to just make him a transition champion.

 

This isn't an opinion thing, you can look it up yourself.

 

You were shown to be wrong with a number of your assumptions, so I'd say that makes it more opinion, and a wrong one at that, than fact.