Chuck vs Randy II

[Guest Big_Jay101]

Who do you guys bet on at the next UFC event which is April 16th I believe.

[Guest BrokenWings]

This seems premature, but Randy, as always.

[Styles 0]

Couture, decision, again. I don't see what's so different this time, besides Chuck's cardio possibly improving. But yeah this is def. a couple months early to really be discussing...

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Chuck has been working for awhile with Eddie Bravo on his ground skills and how to escape and protect himself on his back, something he had no idea about the last time these guys faced. I think that will make a big difference.

[cameron chaos 0]

Chuck was a BJJ purple belt when he last faced Chuck. Most purple belts are solid if not extraordinary on the ground, Nick Diaz showed that against Karo Parisyan. Randy smashed Vitor and Vitor is a BJJ black belt who has trained with the BTT, the Viera Brothers, the Gracies, Fabiano Iha, Frank Mir, Hermes Franca.. the list goes on. However dubious some may believe that belt of his is, he surely can't be that bad if he is hanging with those guys on the mat. Now, if Vitor couldn't do it in their last fight, I can't see Chuck pulling a sub on Randy and locking it. TQ guys all have excellent sub defense (Leben, Hendo, Randy, Schultz) and have hung with black belts before (Laimon and Doerkson, Bustamante and Arona, Vitor, Gil Castillo respectively) so even with Bravo assisting Chuck's sub game it shouldn't make much difference.

 

It'll either be a Chuck KO or a Randy TKO or decision. I am leaning towards it going Randy's way.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I never said anything about assisting in sub skills, in fact I thought it was stupid if he was training with him to catch Randy. But then when I read the article Eddie Bravo talked about how he was helping him with mainly positioning stuff, trying to avoid being on his back, how to escape without being hit too much, basically stuff that he could have used the last time.

 

I like your prediction by the way, very precise.

 

I don't think Randy can be knocked out. He has a tough, tough chin, and Chuck lost a lot of credibility with that loss and his fight against Rampage.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Oh, and Randy was subbed by a very basic choke from Valentijn Overeem and an armbar from Enson Inoue, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. To use how he fought against Belfort isn't really a good example because Vitor has never really shown that he has great submission skills, and Chuck never looks to keep the fight on the ground, so he won't really go for submissions either.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Disregarding the physical and technical aspects of this fight, I think we should take note of the mental parts. If you saw UFC 51 last Saturday, and all that hyperbole going on with Chuck, Tito and Ken, Chuck looked very worked up over Tito, and I think that may prove to be a potential weakness. By doing all that, I think Chuck has now got Tito firmly on his mind, and I think that it's the kind of thing that will fester, and I see it detracting from his preparations for the fight against Couture. Now, if you heard or saw Couture during all of this, he was completely calm and relaxed, even laughing at one point, and I think this shows that he isn't letting all the hyperbole get to him. To me, this shows Randy is the far more relaxed of the two, isn't letting anything throw him off track, and I think that this is an edge that will give Randy the advantage.

 

I see Randy stopping Liddell in Round 4.

[Styles 0]

No disrespect to your point, but I think Chuck was a little drunky wunky at the time (letting his true hate for Tito come out), and in reality he KTFO Tito in their last fight effectively ending the issue and becoming a superstar, he has nothing left to prove in that area. It's the belt and avengence for his lost to Couture that should be on his mind.

[Styles 0]

And since we're already busting out the discussion on this one like 2 months early, what's the speculation on the rest of the card? Hughes vs. Trigg for the Welterweight belt gonna be the other "big" match? Anything rumored for the undercard? (Random thought: What ever happened to Lee Murray?)

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

And since we're already busting out the discussion on this one like 2 months early, what's the speculation on the rest of the card? Hughes vs. Trigg for the Welterweight belt gonna be the other "big" match? Anything rumored for the undercard? (Random thought: What ever happened to Lee Murray?)

Already announced:

 

UFC 52 - APRIL 16TH

 

-Randy Couture vs. Chuck Liddell

 

-Matt Hughes vs. Frank Trigg

 

-Matt Lindland vs. Travis Lutter

 

-Georges St. Pierre vs. Jason Miller

 

-Lee Murray vs. Patrick Cote

 

-Trevor Prangley vs. Ivan Salaverry

 

-Renato "Babalu" Sobral vs. Travis Wiuff

 

-Mike Van Arsdale vs. John Marsh

[Styles 0]

Wow, that was quick. And Holy Shit Lee Murray is BACK! I had no idea he was going to be fighting, I just was thinking about how I enjoyed his attitude and would like to see him again on an undercard, and boom, there he is, against Patrick Cote who I so valiantly routed on live at UFC 50 to no avail. And Georges is back! I cheered him on too...man, just one second... And hey Babalu is back, I want to see him fight. Anyone know anything about Jason Miller? This sounds like a fun card.

[cameron chaos 0]

Oh, and Randy was subbed by a very basic choke from Valentijn Overeem and an armbar from Enson Inoue, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. To use how he fought against Belfort isn't really a good example because Vitor has never really shown that he has great submission skills, and Chuck never looks to keep the fight on the ground, so he won't really go for submissions either.

Randy has came along way since those fights. I can see him getting subbed (apparently Penn got him in sparring when he visited TQ) but only by a top level sub guy with strength to also counterwrestle him like Arona, not by Chuck.

 

Randy Couture vs. Chuck Liddell

I'll got with Randy.

 

-Matt Hughes vs. Frank Trigg

Hughes by decision or sub or Trigg by KO. I'll say Hughes.

 

-Matt Lindland vs. Travis Lutter

I'll go with Lutter. Phantom punches aside, he apparently has solid boxing and a very good ground game. Lindland could give him the same treatment as Falaniko Vitale or more recently Mark Weir with either a methodical attack or TKO stoppage, but I am pulling for Lutter all the same.

 

-Georges St. Pierre vs. Jason Miller

Miller has some crazy subs, decent stand up and good GnP, but Pierre is just a force. St Pierre by TKO/KO.

 

-Lee Murray vs. Patrick Cote

I think Cote will take this one if he can keep his chin down. He has good power in his hands and a better groundgame than Lee.

 

-Trevor Prangley vs. Ivan Salaverry

I'll go with Prangley by KO.

 

-Renato "Babalu" Sobral vs. Travis Wiuff

I hope Babalu wins by sub.

 

-Mike Van Arsdale vs. John Marsh

I hope Van Arsdale does well and wins.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Travis Wiuff is a monster, he fights at 265 sometimes, and is VERY cut at 230. How they're gonna get him down to LHW, I'd like to know. Besides, what kind of matchmaking is this, PRIDE

 

I don't think Chuck will win, but I'm rooting for him. Dana said that he wants the winner of that fight to face Wanderlei, and that it's up to the people in PRIDE to figure it out. I'm told that the possibilities are decent for either one of the main four LHW in the UFC to fight in the GP, and Diaz said he wants to fight in the LW GP. I believe he can cut weight, since he actually was UNDER the WW limit at the weigh in, coming in at 167. Just some interesting news and notes.

[cameron chaos 0]

Diaz wants to go into the LW Grand Prix and cut to 160lbs. I reckon "Buscape" and Gomi would give him problems.

[Guest Brian]

I'd probably want to see Chuck win normally, to get something new going on in the division, but if the winner is going to fight Wanderlei, I want to see Randy go at him.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Bravo is helping Chuck escape the ground, and mounts, as well as submission since Randy is prone to them.

 

I say Randy by unanimous decison, but Chuck puts up a much tougher fight

[AboveAverage484 0]

Travis Wiuff is a monster, he fights at 265 sometimes, and is VERY cut at 230. How they're gonna get him down to LHW, I'd like to know. Besides, what kind of matchmaking is this, PRIDE

 

I don't think Chuck will win, but I'm rooting for him. Dana said that he wants the winner of that fight to face Wanderlei, and that it's up to the people in PRIDE to figure it out. I'm told that the possibilities are decent for either one of the main four LHW in the UFC to fight in the GP, and Diaz said he wants to fight in the LW GP. I believe he can cut weight, since he actually was UNDER the WW limit at the weigh in, coming in at 167. Just some interesting news and notes.

Either that or Babalu is moving up in weight, some of his Rings bouts were fought at HW.

[Lei Tong 0]

Diaz wants to go into the LW Grand Prix and cut to 160lbs. I reckon "Buscape" and Gomi would give him problems.

The fact that Buscape is considered PRIDE's 2nd best LW speaks volumes about the division thus far.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Well, PRIDE wants a bunch of guys from SHOOTO in it as well, like Shaolin and Kawajiri and Hansen and such. Whether this will happen is another story, but if it does then this might be better than any GP they've had so far.

 

Unless the LHW GP this year tops it, which it can if it has some big names in it as well from outside of PRIDE.

 

Question; is it safe to say that the best fighters are in the UFC and PRIDE? I know the LW are best in SHOOTO, but other than that, if you're the best at WW, MW, LHW or HW, in either org, is it safe to say you're probably the best in the world? Evan Tanner comes to mind, is that guy better than any other MW in the world since he's the best in the UFC, discounting the guys in PRIDE? Are there many other contenders that we don't know about that haven't been in either org? I know of guys like Horn, but other than him is there an Org out there that sports impressive fighters but just isn't very mainstream?

[Lei Tong 0]

Best at...

143lbs: SHOOTO

155lbs: SHOOTO

169lbs: UFC

185lbs: Toss-up due to PRIDE's not yet finalized division, UFC's "cut & run" strategy with many fighters & Pancrase's solid line-up (even while lacking Almeida).

LHW: PRIDE

HW: PRIDE

 

The thing to remember is that the weight classes in Japanese orgs like Pancrase & SHOOTO are different than those in the states, usually with a difference of 2-5lbs. in the limits. This leads to guys who could fight at 185 in US events fighting at 195lbs. because they can't reach the Japanese weight limits. Then there of course are stubborn guys like Yuki Kondo, who simply refuse to cut weight.

 

As for some good fighters who have yet to fight in the "Big Two" at WW or above:

Akira Kikuchi (WW/SHOOTO)

Masanori Suda (MW/SHOOTO)

Jake Shields (WW/SHOOTO)

Jason Miller (WW/SuperBrawl)

Nathan Marquardt (MW/ Pancrase)

Gustavo Machado (MW/ Various)

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Almeida was in PRIDE at the end of his career though, and in UFC as well, so I wouldn't call him a Pancrase fighter strictly. He was great, before he retired early of course.

 

Well thanks for clearing up what I thought pretty much; that the UFC and PRIDE have the best fighters 170 and up, for the most part. Rage in the Cage over in Britain has some good fighters too, of course they get snatched up by the big two whenever they start to get a run.

 

Jason Miller is actually gonna be fighting at the next UFC, against Rich Franklin. That's the problem with the UFC; they take promising fighters, and throw them in tough first fights. When Riggs was originally supposed to fight Murray, I doubt anyone gave him a chance, since most didn't know who he was. Now, it's a different story and that match could get some great hype due to the popularity of both fighters. I actually would pick Riggs to win since he seems to be the more well-rounded fighter of the two.

 

Speaking of Franklin, I'd like to see him fight at 205 since that division is pretty shallow at this point, but I guess they feel that Chuck and Randy are too talented for him, or something. I think that it's less of a case as the guys at 205 having more talent than them just being more established. Evan Tanner and David Terrell are two of the most well-rounded fighters period, but you wouldn't know it from the way the UFC markets them.

[Lei Tong 0]

- There are examples of guys like Misaki, Gono, Kondo, Terrell, & Almeida who, though they fought in the UFC & PRIDE, were still contracted fighters and that's why I consider them Pancrase fighters first & foremost.

 

- Actually, Rage in the Cage is Arizona's fighting org., with guys like Joseph Riggs, Edwin Dewees, Homer Moore, Drew Fickett, etc. You're probably thinking about Cage Rage.

 

- black-jack-shalack (who knows more about MMA than most guys I know) had a great point that if you're going to be fighting it what's supposed to be the premiere fighting event in the United States and arguably the world, you need to face tough guys. I mean, I don't expect people to go up against nothing but Top 10 guys unless they're a champ, but at the same time it's a bit tiring seeing guys spoon-fed weaker competition for the sake of building their name up (which often times leads to hyped guys getting embarassed). I think this could be offset by UFC readjusting their "you lose, you're gone" approach to any fighter they're not hard for.

 

- Whenever a fighter the UFC likes has some trouble in a fight, they're usually advised to cut weight (if they can). Whereas Yves Edwards losing to Tatsuya Kawajiri wasn't big news in the US (and now falsely rumoured to have been a poor decision), most everyone who follows MMA knows Franklin got KO'ed by "some Japanese Karate guy" (Machida). Besides, unless the weight cutting adversly affects him, he should have some success at 185lbs.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Does anyone know how their training for this fight sort of coincides with their tv show? When were the eps for the show taped?

[Styles 0]

Does anyone know how their training for this fight sort of coincides with their tv show? When were the eps for the show taped?

I don't know the exact time but the whole season was taped before the first episode even aired, so they have almost 3 months between the first airing and the fight. Of course the final episode will be live fights....