North Korea says they have Nuclear Weapons

[Guest Vitamin X]

Well, he was trained as a lawyer at the University of Havana.

Which sounds about as good as being a doctor from a Mexican University.

This is an incredibly ignorant statement to make. Cuba's known to have a fantastic educational system, and the University of Havana is the pinnacle of that. This is why many Cubans come to this country and usually open up their own businesses or hold professional-level jobs, whereas most Mexicans/Puerto Ricans/etc. come in and do typical immigrant labor work. This city I live in is prosperous in no small part BECAUSE of the overwhelming Cuban population here that's made it that way.

 

Also, you have to be a pretty smart man to have taken control of that country and have held it for so long. Not in a good way, but certainly in some sense.

Edited February 12, 2005 by Vitamin X

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, he was trained as a lawyer at the University of Havana.

Which sounds about as good as being a doctor from a Mexican University.

This is an incredibly ignorant statement to make. Cuba's known to have a fantastic educational system, and the University of Havana is the pinnacle of that.

Umm, according to whom? I've not seen ANY figures backing that up in years. If you can find something clever Castro said, feel free. I've not heard anything profound from him ---- ever.

Also, you have to be a pretty smart man to have taken control of that country and have held it for so long. Not in a good way, but certainly in some sense.

Mussolini and Hitler both were idiots. Simple and short of it, neither man had the intellectual firepower to shoot through rice paper.

 

They both managed to gain control of their country and hold it.

 

The Saud family seems to be rather laden with folks educated in the atrocious madrassas of that country. They still hold control of that country, much to the consternation of many. Myself included.

-=Mike

[Guest Vitamin X]

Well, he was trained as a lawyer at the University of Havana.

Which sounds about as good as being a doctor from a Mexican University.

This is an incredibly ignorant statement to make. Cuba's known to have a fantastic educational system, and the University of Havana is the pinnacle of that.

Umm, according to whom? I've not seen ANY figures backing that up in years. If you can find something clever Castro said, feel free. I've not heard anything profound from him ---- ever.

What sort of figures are you looking for? I'll be more than happy to research it.

 

Also, you have to be a pretty smart man to have taken control of that country and have held it for so long. Not in a good way, but certainly in some sense.

Mussolini and Hitler both were idiots. Simple and short of it, neither man had the intellectual firepower to shoot through rice paper.

 

They both managed to gain control of their country and hold it.

Wouldn't managing to gain control of their country, holding it, and in Hitler's case inciting the populace that committing genocide was a-okay to do require at least a certain amount of intelligence?

 

Besides, I'm talking specifically about Cuba not here, not just dictators in general. That argument could stretch for ages.

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, he was trained as a lawyer at the University of Havana.

Which sounds about as good as being a doctor from a Mexican University.

This is an incredibly ignorant statement to make. Cuba's known to have a fantastic educational system, and the University of Havana is the pinnacle of that.

Umm, according to whom? I've not seen ANY figures backing that up in years. If you can find something clever Castro said, feel free. I've not heard anything profound from him ---- ever.

What sort of figures are you looking for? I'll be more than happy to research it.

I'd actually like to see an independent survey of Cuban education. I have not seen one.

Also, you have to be a pretty smart man to have taken control of that country and have held it for so long. Not in a good way, but certainly in some sense.

Mussolini and Hitler both were idiots. Simple and short of it, neither man had the intellectual firepower to shoot through rice paper.

 

They both managed to gain control of their country and hold it.

Wouldn't managing to gain control of their country, holding it, and in Hitler's case inciting the populace that committing genocide was a-okay to do require at least a certain amount of intelligence?

Honestly, no. Hitler could give a good speech and could demagogue well --- that does not, to me, require a great deal of intellectual ability. Hitler had people around him who actually did most of the work while he simply managed to give speeches.

 

Hitler was not a bright man. Mussolini was even less of one.

Besides, I'm talking specifically about Cuba not here, not just dictators in general. That argument could stretch for ages.

And I'm saying that the only reason some liberals think Castro is intelligent is because he's a Communist, not for anything he's done or said in his life.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Cuba's educational system must be good -- the people there have the smarts to try and get away from that place to come to the evil, oppresive USA...

[Guest Vitamin X]

Well, he was trained as a lawyer at the University of Havana.

Which sounds about as good as being a doctor from a Mexican University.

This is an incredibly ignorant statement to make. Cuba's known to have a fantastic educational system, and the University of Havana is the pinnacle of that.

Umm, according to whom? I've not seen ANY figures backing that up in years. If you can find something clever Castro said, feel free. I've not heard anything profound from him ---- ever.

What sort of figures are you looking for? I'll be more than happy to research it.

I'd actually like to see an independent survey of Cuban education. I have not seen one.

Well, it obviously isn't exactly what you're looking for but this may be close. That shows it's by far not even close to what the level of education usually is in a 3rd world country, so saying it'd be comparable to a doctorate from a university in Mexico is untrue.

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, he was trained as a lawyer at the University of Havana.

Which sounds about as good as being a doctor from a Mexican University.

This is an incredibly ignorant statement to make. Cuba's known to have a fantastic educational system, and the University of Havana is the pinnacle of that.

Umm, according to whom? I've not seen ANY figures backing that up in years. If you can find something clever Castro said, feel free. I've not heard anything profound from him ---- ever.

What sort of figures are you looking for? I'll be more than happy to research it.

I'd actually like to see an independent survey of Cuban education. I have not seen one.

Well, it obviously isn't exactly what you're looking for but this may be close. That shows it's by far not even close to what the level of education usually is in a 3rd world country, so saying it'd be comparable to a doctorate from a university in Mexico is untrue.

Well, the study seems solid, so I have no complaints.

 

The question I have is --- why is th economy so utterly in the shitter?

 

The only country who doesn't deal with them is the US. There is no way us ALONE can keep an economy in the toilet.

 

Why are Castro's policies so horrendously underutilizing what seems to be a benefit of the country's?

-=Mike

[Guest Vitamin X]

Perhaps because it's a communist government, and those haven't shown to be quite profitable for an economy? (with the exception of China, but of course we know they allow free trade....)

 

It's a good question, one I can't answer any more in-depth then that with what I know, but it certainly wouldn't be as a result of poor education as I showed.

 

EDIT: And in regards to the embargo, why isn't there anything the Cuban government can do to lift it without a complete overhaul and restructing of government? I'm not sure of who the US has embargos on, but they haven't placed one on every single communist country now have they?

[SuperJerk 0]

Well, he was trained as a lawyer at the University of Havana.

Which sounds about as good as being a doctor from a Mexican University.

This is an incredibly ignorant statement to make. Cuba's known to have a fantastic educational system, and the University of Havana is the pinnacle of that.

Umm, according to whom? I've not seen ANY figures backing that up in years. If you can find something clever Castro said, feel free. I've not heard anything profound from him ---- ever.

What sort of figures are you looking for? I'll be more than happy to research it.

I'd actually like to see an independent survey of Cuban education. I have not seen one.

Well, it obviously isn't exactly what you're looking for but this may be close. That shows it's by far not even close to what the level of education usually is in a 3rd world country, so saying it'd be comparable to a doctorate from a university in Mexico is untrue.

Well, the study seems solid, so I have no complaints.

 

The question I have is --- why is th economy so utterly in the shitter?

 

The only country who doesn't deal with them is the US. There is no way us ALONE can keep an economy in the toilet.

 

Why are Castro's policies so horrendously underutilizing what seems to be a benefit of the country's?

-=Mike

Cuba has nothing to offer but mostly nice weather. You can't exactly export that.

[Guest Vitamin X]

^^

 

Cigars/tobaccos, sugar, rum, various meats, and fish. They weren't as strongly industrialized as many first world countries were at the time, but they had a strong economy and was a major global (and much of it came from the US...how do you think Lucy met Ricky??) resort spot before the communist government took over. It was like a giant island Las Vegas, from accounts of my family alive during those times.

[Guest MikeSC]

Perhaps because it's a communist government, and those haven't shown to be quite profitable for an economy? (with the exception of China, but of course we know they allow free trade....)

 

It's a good question, one I can't answer any more in-depth then that with what I know, but it certainly wouldn't be as a result of poor education as I showed.

 

EDIT: And in regards to the embargo, why isn't there anything the Cuban government can do to lift it without a complete overhaul and restructing of government? I'm not sure of who the US has embargos on, but they haven't placed one on every single communist country now have they?

The US won't remove it until the gov't changes. It is our right to make such a decision as to whom we deal with. We have the same deal, if memory serves, with Iran.

Cuba has nothing to offer but mostly nice weather. You can't exactly export that.

They apparently have exceptionally intelligent people. But they can't produce an economy that is worth a damn?

-=Mike

[SuperJerk 0]

^^

 

Cigars/tobaccos, sugar, rum, various meats, and fish.

All of which can be produced more efficiently by other countires, evidently.

 

They weren't as strongly industrialized as many first world countries were at the time, but they had a strong economy and was a major global (and much of it came from the US...how do you think Lucy met Ricky??) resort spot before the communist government took over. It was like a giant island Las Vegas, from accounts of my family alive during those times.

 

The US embargo killed their tourism industry dead.

[Guest MikeSC]

They weren't as strongly industrialized as many first world countries were at the time, but they had a strong economy and was a major global (and much of it came from the US...how do you think Lucy met Ricky??) resort spot before the communist government took over. It was like a giant island Las Vegas, from accounts of my family alive during those times.

 

The US embargo killed their tourism industry dead.

But why?

 

OTHER countries go there regularly. In fact, WE are just about the only country that doesn't deal with Cuba.

 

While I don't doubt that we're huge --- if I'm supposed to take other economies seriously, then I can't sit there and assume that a country's tourism would be dead if only we refused to visit.

-=Mike

[SuperJerk 0]

They weren't as strongly industrialized as many first world countries were at the time, but they had a strong economy and was a major global (and much of it came from the US...how do you think Lucy met Ricky??) resort spot before the communist government took over. It was like a giant island Las Vegas, from accounts of my family alive during those times.

 

The US embargo killed their tourism industry dead.

But why?

 

OTHER countries go there regularly. In fact, WE are just about the only country that doesn't deal with Cuba.

 

While I don't doubt that we're huge --- if I'm supposed to take other economies seriously, then I can't sit there and assume that a country's tourism would be dead if only we refused to visit.

-=Mike

The wealtiest country in the world, which is less than 100 miles away, forbids its citizens from visiting your island. I'd say that's enough to kill a tourism industry.

[Guest MikeSC]

They weren't as strongly industrialized as many first world countries were at the time, but they had a strong economy and was a major global (and much of it came from the US...how do you think Lucy met Ricky??) resort spot before the communist government took over. It was like a giant island Las Vegas, from accounts of my family alive during those times.

 

The US embargo killed their tourism industry dead.

But why?

 

OTHER countries go there regularly. In fact, WE are just about the only country that doesn't deal with Cuba.

 

While I don't doubt that we're huge --- if I'm supposed to take other economies seriously, then I can't sit there and assume that a country's tourism would be dead if only we refused to visit.

-=Mike

The wealtiest country in the world, which is less than 100 miles away, forbids its citizens from visiting your island. I'd say that's enough to kill a tourism industry.

But Canada and Europe DO visit and trade with them. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that our embargo can kill an economy.

-=Mike

[Guest Vitamin X]

What Mike says does make sense. But plain and simple, the government essentially robs its citizens of making any money and keeps them poor. Everything is rationed there, and noone has any private assets, and those who make any sort of money get shaken down and starved, sometimes imprisoned.

 

EDIT: On a sidenote, anyone have a list of countries being embargoed by other countries? For some reason, I get the feeling that the US isn't the only country with an embargo on Cuba, which would then mean it'd probably result from the US embargo.

[Guest Vitamin X]

This probably doesn't help tourism much either.

 

That comes from this helpful list of links that show mostly just Cuba's recent, but some extending further back, human rights violations.

[SuperJerk 0]

But Canada and Europe DO visit and trade with them. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that our embargo can kill an economy.

Yes, but do they visit as much as we did, and more importantly spend as much money, before the embargo? For some reason I'm thinking they don't.

 

Of course, I realize that the fact that they have a communist dictatorship hurts tourism probably just as much or worse as the embargo does.

 

My point isn't that the embargo is hurting them, but that their biggest industry can't sustain their economy.

[Guest MikeSC]

But Canada and Europe DO visit and trade with them. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that our embargo can kill an economy.

Yes, but do they visit as much as we did, and more importantly spend as much money, before the embargo? For some reason I'm thinking they don't.

 

Of course, I realize that the fact that they have a communist dictatorship hurts tourism probably just as much or worse as the embargo does.

 

My point isn't that the embargo is hurting them, but that their biggest industry can't sustain their economy.

I argue that Castro's policies have killed their economy more than anything else.

 

Which is why I think referring to him as intelligent makes no sense.

-=Mike

[Guest Vitamin X]

You speak as if Castro makes these policies to benefit his country more than himself.

[SuperJerk 0]

But Canada and Europe DO visit and trade with them. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that our embargo can kill an economy.

Yes, but do they visit as much as we did, and more importantly spend as much money, before the embargo? For some reason I'm thinking they don't.

 

Of course, I realize that the fact that they have a communist dictatorship hurts tourism probably just as much or worse as the embargo does.

 

My point isn't that the embargo is hurting them, but that their biggest industry can't sustain their economy.

I argue that Castro's policies have killed their economy more than anything else.

If Castro's dictatorship is preventing the tourism industry from maximizing its potential, then sure.

 

I love the way communist governments always seem to pop up in countries where communism has absolutely no chance of working. Communism was designed for heavily industrialized societies, not agricultural ones. The theory already has enough things to keep it from working to begin with.

 

Its like building a house of cards on a fault line. It was already doomed to fail, but by putting it where they did, the failure was just that much worse.

[Guest Brian]

Neither Che nor Castro were much for running the economy, and Che did a whole lot to ruin the economy after some limited success at the start of the Revolution, and his strong drive to position Cuba as Communist really worked to isolate the country. The Sino-Soviet split really hurt their sugar export, and Cuban exiles have poisoned the sugar crops a half doze or so times in the last forty years. That and the huge loss of US tourism really killed the economy.

[SuperJerk 0]

Okay...

 

 

...these are all good points, but...

 

 

 

...I have no fucking idea why we're talking about Cuba....

 

 

...at all.

 

 

[Guest MikeSC]

I blame Vitamin X.

-=Mike

[Guest Vitamin X]

As well you should!

 

Then again there was nothing much more to say on the main topic.

[Guest MikeSC]

As well you should!

 

Then again there was nothing much more to say on the main topic.

Well, as a rule, I blame you for everything.

-=Mike

..."Sorry I finished so quickly, darling. It was that damned Vitamin X's fault..."

[Dogbert 0]

The reason they haven't gone after NK is basically because nobody outside of it knows anything that's going on in there. It's basically a closed cell, with not much info getting in and out of it.

 

Iraq was based off of bad intelligence reports: that was enough to justify an attack. When it comes to North Korea, I don't think the government has anything to go on.

[Guest MikeSC]

The reason they haven't gone after NK is basically because nobody outside of it knows anything that's going on in there. It's basically a closed cell, with not much info getting in and out of it.

 

Iraq was based off of bad intelligence reports: that was enough to justify an attack. When it comes to North Korea, I don't think the government has anything to go on.

Definitely. We have, far as I know, NO hard intel in N. Korea.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Well, I never suggested invading North Korea. I just think they were going to be faster to find themselves in a position where they might sell weapons to terrorists.

 

However, I maintain my position that threats and posturing is all they have and if they launch it, even if they weren't wiped off the map, the only bargaining chip is played.