MMA Matches you like

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

So I figure that we could get some discussion going, and recommending some stuff to each other. Just talk about matches you like, and why you like them. If you disagree with someone else, point out how wrong they are. I'll start with a couple:

 

Lindland/Baroni II - UFC 41:Onslaught

 

This one was a war, and is the probably the last match that Baroni had where his performance was something to be proud of really. He just went ballistic in the first round, going crazy at Lindland's face a few times with some good flurries. Of course, he gassed later and Lindland went to work, especially in the second round, just elbowing his face to the mat while locking up his arms. Just lots of intensity and there was never a point when the action was stalled, Baroni showed some pretty good ground moves that I didn't think that he had, namely using a kimura to sweep Lindland. Just a great, great fight that even the crowd, which normally hates groundwork, enjoyed, probably because of the grudge factor in there. That's right, these guys hate each other, a lot. If you haven't seen this one, you should. It's one of my favourite matches from 2003.

 

SPOILER ALERT: I personally thought that, by the UFC's rules, that it could easily be said that Baroni won rounds 1 and 3, just barely, while Lindland took 2. Not to mention that Baroni finished better and might have won under PRIDE criteria. Regardless, it was a lot closer than the Unanimous decision would tell you.

 

Frank Shamrock/Jeremy Horn - UFC 17:Redemption

 

His fight with Tito is probably talked about more, but I prefer this fight since Horn fights back, as opposed to just stalling with Shamrock. Great ground action, although it might seem a little slow to those not used to Horn. Very back and forth with the positioning and submission attempts, and there are points when Shammy catches a foot submission of some kind, and Horn smiles as if to say "You ain't got shit". Long and deep battle, when Rogan talks about MMA being kinetic chess, this is what he speaks of. Ending is as good as it is sudden, and I would definitely recommend this one to anyone. The fact that it took place in 1997 on a card where Dirty Harry Moskowitz had a fight speaks volumes about how past its time this bout was. In fact, this whole card would probably be a good show by todays standards. But yeah, great fight.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I thought their first match from UFC 34 was better.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Okay, here's my top ten favorite matches from each year in Pride. I'm consolidating the years '97-'99.

 

1997-1999

 

1. Newton vs. Matsui (Pride 6)

2. Sakuraba vs. Newton (Pride 3)

3. Sakuraba vs. Macias (Pride 7)

4. Sakuraba vs. White (Pride 2)

5. Trigg vs. Iha (Pride 8)

6. Sakuraba vs. Fontes Braga (Pride 6)

7. Sakuraba vs. Royler (Pride 8)

8. Sakuraba vs. Belfort (Pride 5)

9. Goodridge vs. Ogawa (Pride 6)

10. Goodridge vs. Taktarov (Pride 1)

 

 

2000

 

1. Silva vs. Mezger (Pride 10)

2. Silva vs. Henderson (Pride 12)

3. Almeida vs. Shoji (Pride 12)

4. Sakuraba vs. Renzo (Pride 10)

5. Goodridge vs. Yatsu (Pride 11)

6. Vovchanchyn vs. Enson (Pride 10)

7. Vovchanchyn vs. Goodridge (GP: Finals)

8. Sakuraba vs. Ryan (Pride 12)

9. Shamrock vs. Fujita (Pride 10)

10. Herring vs. Erikson (Pride 11)

 

 

2001

 

1. Sakuraba vs. Jackson (Pride 15)

2. Ninja vs. Matsui (Pride 16)

3. Liddell vs. Mezger (Pride 14)

4. Nogueira vs. Coleman (Pride 16)

5. Nogueira vs. Herring (Pride 17)

6. Fujita vs. Takayama (Pride 14)

7. Vovchanchyn vs. Satake (Pride 15)

8. Henderson vs. Shoji (Pride 14)

9. Vovchanchyn vs. Overeem (Pride 18)

10. (Tie) Pele vs. Matsui (Pride 14)

10. (Tie) Ninja vs. Andrade (Pride 18)

 

I'll be back with the next three years when I get out of class.

[Lei Tong 0]

One match I love that most others don't (at least not to the same extent) is Hayato Sakurai vs. Tetsuji Kato.

[AboveAverage484 0]

2002

 

1. Newton vs. Pele (Pride 19)

2. Frye vs. Takayama (Pride 21)

3. Nogueira vs. Henderson (Pride 24)

4. Nogueira vs. Sapp (Shockwave)

5. Ninja vs. Sperry (Pride 20)

6. Nogueira vs. Enson (Pride 19)

7. Fedor vs. Herring (Pride 23)

8. Silva vs. Kanehara (Pride 23)

9. Vovchanchyn vs. Jackson (Pride 22)

10. Silva vs. Cro Cop (Pride 20)

 

 

2003

 

1. Fedor vs. Fujita (Pride 26)

2. Liddell vs. Overeem (Total Elimination)

3. Yoshida vs. Tamura (Total Elimination)

4. Shogun vs. Shoji (Bushido)

5. Sakuraba vs. Lil' Nog (Shockwave)

6. Ralph vs. Mishima (Bushido)

7. Nogueira vs. Rodriguez (Total Elimination)

8. Nogueira vs. Cro Cop (Final Conflict)

9. Sakuraba vs. Silva (Total Elimination)

10. Cro Cop vs. Herring (Pride 26)

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

No Fedor v. Noguiera for 03? I'd also say that Cro Cop/Noguiera is better than Nog/Ricco.

 

I've never seen their first bout, but I've heard that Baroni/Lindland I is boring and isn't comparable to their second fight. I guess I'll have to track it down and judge it myself.

[AboveAverage484 0]

No Fedor v. Noguiera for 03? I'd also say that Cro Cop/Noguiera is better than Nog/Ricco.

 

I've never seen their first bout, but I've heard that Baroni/Lindland I is boring and isn't comparable to their second fight. I guess I'll have to track it down and judge it myself.

Yeah, my 2003 list is kinda messed up, I need to work some more on it.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I watched Bas/Frank today, and Frank lost due to cut. How can I be sure of which of the older Pancrase matches were worked? I ask because I really liked this match, but there was a little too much character in it, if you know what I mean.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Frye vs. Takayama (Pride 21)

 

Agreed. This fight rules the fucking school.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I watched Bas/Frank today, and Frank lost due to cut. How can I be sure of which of the older Pancrase matches were worked? I ask because I really liked this match, but there was a little too much character in it, if you know what I mean.

It wasn't worked, Pancrase matches really weren't worked per se, but sometimes fighters like Funaki, Suzuki, and Shamrock were asked to "take it easy" on their opponents, i.e. make them look better than they were.

 

In early Pancrase, there was a big disparity in the talent level. You had Funaki, the Shamrocks, Bas, and Minoru Suzuki at the top, and they pretty much ruled the roost, with guys like Manabu Yamada and Mo Smith sometimes gettin' in on the action, but those first fighters were usually the cream of the crop.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

10 UFC fights that haven't been mentioned yet.

 

Royce Gracie vs. Kimo UFC III - It was Nog/Sapp nearly 10 years earlier. I remember at the time hearing about Kimo from one of my friends and how carried a cross to the ring. It was so badass. Just a war between the two and it showed that Royce Gracie was human.

 

Randy Couture vs. Vitor Belfort UFC XV - when I got "back into" MMA, these two were instantly my favourites because they were able to cross-genres. Couture, the wrestler, had boxing training and submitted his earlier opponents. Belfort, a GJJ student, was drilling others with his hands. This fight is/was amazing. A great dynamic that shows the benefits of age and the detriments of youth.

 

Mo Smith vs. Mark Coleman UFC XIV - One of my all time favourite fights. The story is Mark Coleman is unstoppable, and Maurice Smith is going to get punished. Coleman had been successful in the UFC by Grounding and Pounding his opponents and never letting up until the ref stopped it or they tapped out. This fight shows what happens when the opponent is able to weather the storm and symbolizes how you can't just get by on one style. It was one of the first real examples of strategy being used in an MMA match rather than relying on pure skill.

 

Carlos Newton vs. Dan Henderson UFC XVII - Two of the most entertaining fighters ever going at it. Non stop. Great spots, they go everywhere. One of the best fights ever.

 

Jerry Bohlander vs. Kevin Jackson UFC XVI - Under-the-radar, it has some nice psychology involved and tells a good story. Jackson being prone to the armbar, his issues with the lions den, etc.

 

Matt Serra vs. Shonie Carter UFC XXXI - This happened around the time I got back into MMA and it showed how far it had come and how competitive it was. Really active fight with a spectacular finish.

 

Matt Serra vs. Kelly Dullanty UFC XXXVI - Quick, but so active. Dullanty does the impossible by escaping one choke just to get caught in another one. JIU JIT SU~!

 

Ian Freeman vs. Tiger White UFC XLIII - Mentioned in another thread, time will probably pass over this one but it's still a great fight. Back and Forth, it goes everywhere. They should have a rematch.

 

Josh Thomson vs. Gerald Strebendt UFC XLIV - Like Dullanty/Serra, its quick but active. Strebendt is amazing going from one submission to another, but unlike Serra/Dullanty, Thomson is able to stop the subrush with a pimpsmack.

 

Matt Hughes vs. GSP UFC L - Just happened a few months ago, I was on the edge of my seat for the entire 5 minutes. Just when you think there could be a changing of the guard, Hughes pulls out a beautiful armbar.

[Lei Tong 0]

I watched Bas/Frank today, and Frank lost due to cut. How can I be sure of which of the older Pancrase matches were worked? I ask because I really liked this match, but there was a little too much character in it, if you know what I mean.

It wasn't worked, Pancrase matches really weren't worked per se, but sometimes fighters like Funaki, Suzuki, and Shamrock were asked to "take it easy" on their opponents, i.e. make them look better than they were.

 

In early Pancrase, there was a big disparity in the talent level. You had Funaki, the Shamrocks, Bas, and Minoru Suzuki at the top, and they pretty much ruled the roost, with guys like Manabu Yamada and Mo Smith sometimes gettin' in on the action, but those first fighters were usually the cream of the crop.

RRR, I love ya, but lots, and I do mean LOTS of early Pancrase matches were works. Suzuki was one of the worse offenders, though not alone in this case. There were some fighters (Bas comes to mind) who seemed to be involved in few-to-no works, but many guys who either faded out or simply left as Pancrase started to phase out works in '96 are up for debate. And yes, that includes Kenny Sham:

 

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

What about Frank?

 

Is that Ken delivering the suplex?

[Lei Tong 0]

Frank's matches seemed mostly legit.

 

And yes, that's Ken sporting the ponytail.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Which begs the age-old question:

 

Does Shamrock copy Guy Mezgers hair styles, or does Guy follow Kens?

[Lei Tong 0]

Which begs the age-old question:

 

Does Shamrock copy Guy Mezgers hair styles, or does Guy follow Kens?

The colonial 'do was all the rage amongst "shootfighters" back in the day.

 

As for who rocked it the hardest:

 

1) Paul Lazenby

2) Guy Mezger

3) Masakatsu Funaki

4) Ken Sahmrock

5) Erik Paulson

[cameron chaos 0]

Most early Pancrase shows had a few works on them to make certain native fighters comercially viable, however by 96-97 they were virtually all shoots. Even PRIDE had works to begin with, Takada admitted all but his fights vs Rickson and his last fight were works after he retired. Bas contends he was never involved in any works and I tend to believe him because he fucked up a lot of people during his tenure there and claims it was Shamrock's kneebar on him that gave him the drive to train hard in grappling so he wouldn't be submitted and feel that kind of pain ever again in his career.

 

And that suplex is good, but the fact he rolled through into a Kimura lock is even more impressive.

 

I quite like Herring-Nog 1, both Silva vs Rampage fights, Hendo vs Ninja, Hughes vs Newton 1 (one of the best finishes to an MMA fight ever), Cro Cop vs Nog, Sudo vs Ludwig (even if the decision was wrong, the fight was excellent), Sakuraba vs Newton and the disgustingly brutal war that was Inoue vs Vovchanchyn.

[Lei Tong 0]

And that suplex is good, but the fact he rolled through into a Kimura lock is even more impressive.

The thing is, you know Hume never thought that anyone would believe that match was legitimate. He probably thought his MMA career would be remembered more for his wins over Miletich & Paulson, rather than losing a few worked matches in Pancrase.

[Lei Tong 0]

Double post

Edited March 17, 2005 by Lei Tong

[Youth N Asia 0]

Mo Smith vs. Mark Coleman UFC XIV - One of my all time favourite fights. The story is Mark Coleman is unstoppable, and Maurice Smith is going to get punished. Coleman had been successful in the UFC by Grounding and Pounding his opponents and never letting up until the ref stopped it or they tapped out. This fight shows what happens when the opponent is able to weather the storm and symbolizes how you can't just get by on one style. It was one of the first real examples of strategy being used in an MMA match rather than relying on pure skill.

The fight's almost sad to watch. Coleman was undefeted in the UFC by this point I believe (8-0?). And Mo's just dominating him and keeping him from shooting by kicking the crap out of his legs. Mark's legs are dead near the end of the fight and his shooting attempts just look ugly. Mark's so beaten and you just know there's no coming back from it. I was shocked by this one.

[AboveAverage484 0]

And that suplex is good, but the fact he rolled through into a Kimura lock is even more impressive.

The thing is, you know Hume never thought that anyone would believe that match was legitimate. He probably thought his MMA career would be remembered more for his wins over Miletich & Paulson, rather than losing a few worked matches in Pancrase.

But why would Ken work a match against someone who he could and would beat in real shoot fight? That's what makes me think that some matches were just Ken and others takin' it easy on their opponents. I think most of the Pancrase matches between the top fighters were legit.

 

Of course, everyone knows that Shamrock/Suzuki KOP match was a work. Suzuki was a great fighter in reality though.

 

BTW, Lei, that was me who originally made the statement on Pancrase matches and their legitimacy.

[Tim Cooke 0]

Rudo- you need to pimp all of the really awesome non Pride fights, especially from lesser known Japanese promotions. That UFC list above has just helped me make an order from Lynch.

 

Tim

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Lei Tong is better at that. I've seen stuff outside the UFC in terms of KOTC, RINGS, Extreme Challenge, Gladiator Challenge, etc. but he's seen way more than me.

[Tim Cooke 0]

Lei Tong - get to it!

 

Tim

[Brush with Greatness 0]

RRR,

 

I can't believe you didn't mention Robbie Lawler v. Aaron Riley from UFC 37 in your list there.

[razazteca 0]

The Vale Tudo tourny from Brazil that Mark Kerr won in 1997(?) was interesting.

[cameron chaos 0]

You mean the one where he beat Paul Varelans face into a new shape?

[Lei Tong 0]

And that suplex is good, but the fact he rolled through into a Kimura lock is even more impressive.

The thing is, you know Hume never thought that anyone would believe that match was legitimate. He probably thought his MMA career would be remembered more for his wins over Miletich & Paulson, rather than losing a few worked matches in Pancrase.

But why would Ken work a match against someone who he could and would beat in real shoot fight? That's what makes me think that some matches were just Ken and others takin' it easy on their opponents. I think most of the Pancrase matches between the top fighters were legit.

 

Of course, everyone knows that Shamrock/Suzuki KOP match was a work. Suzuki was a great fighter in reality though.

 

BTW, Lei, that was me who originally made the statement on Pancrase matches and their legitimacy.

- I don't think it was a total given that Shamrock would defeat Hume. As I mentioned, Hume had wins over quality guys like Paulson (former Shooto champion) & Miletich (former UFC champion). I would put ken as a favorite in a match simple because he dwarfed Hume.

 

But how can you look at that clip and think it was legitimate? The fact is, there's been plenty of other matches with a larger diference in both size and skill than Shamrock/Hume, yet never will you ever see something like a Northern Lights Suplex to floatover kimura, and it's not as though Hume doesn't know his shit, being head trainer of AMC Pankration.

 

In regards to Suzuki, no doubt that he was one of Pancrase's more skilled guys on the ground, but the fact is he benefited possibly more than anyone from Pancrase's works. People talk about injuries playing a big part of why Suzuki's W/L record suffered as Pancrase shifted to pure shoots, but watching fights against the likes of Yamamiya, Mezger & Kikuta showed that there was more to it than Suzuki not being as good as he once was.

 

- There's really been a lot of entertaining bouts in smaller orgs. Some examples:

 

SHOOTO:

Caol Uno vs. Rumina Sato I

Hayato Sakurai vs. Frank Trigg

Akihiro Gono vs. Murilo Rua

Hiroyuki Takaya vs. Joao Roque

Takanori Gomi vs. Joachim Hansen

 

Pancrase:

Bas Rutten vs. Masakatsu Funaki II

Ricardo Almeida vs. Kazuo Misaki

Yuki Kondo vs. Akihiro Gono

Mitsuyoshi Sato vs. Daisuke Watanabe

Ikuhisa Minowa vs. Yoshinori Momose

 

DEEP:

Ikuhisa Minowa vs. Paulo Filho

Takaharu Murahama vs. Ryuki Ueyama

Hayato Sakurai vs. Dave Menne

Ryo Chonan vs. Eiji Ishikawa

Dokonjonosuke Mishima vs. Masakazu Imanari

[AboveAverage484 0]

Frank Shamrock vs. Allan Goes from Eyes of the Beast 5 is good too, probably the second best Pancrase bout from the "early" years behind Rutten/Funaki from the '96 Anniversary Show.

 

Tamura/Yvel from the 4/20/2000 Rings show is probably the best Rings match ever and Fedor/Arona is also really good. Come to think of it, Yvel has a lot of good to great matches from Rings, including his 4/23/99 match against Kohsaka and his war with Dan Henderson in the Rings KOK 2000 quarterfinals.

 

More good Rings matches:

Henderson vs. Kanehara (10/28/99)

Henderson vs. Babalu (2/26/00)

Couture vs. Horn (10/9/00)

Nogueira vs. Tamura (10/9/00)

Nogueira vs. Volk Han~! (2/24/01)

Couture vs. Kohsaka (2/24/01)

Nogueira vs. Kanehara (2/24/01)

Valentijn Overeem submitting Randy Couture in less than a minute (2/24/01)

 

If you ever get a chance to see Frank Shamrock vs. Tamura from the 4/23/99 show do so. It's a worked shoot, but still very entertaining in its own right and pretty interesting to boot.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Just for the hell of it, I went back and ranked every Pride fight from 2002, I'll try and do this for 2003 and 2004 as well. I only excluded squash/one sided/short matches.

 

1. Don Frye vs. Yoshihiro Takayama Pride 21

2. Carlos Newton vs. Jose Landi-Jons Pride 19

3. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Bob Sapp Shockwave

4. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Dan Henderson Pride 24

5. Murilo Rua vs. Mario Sperry Pride 20

6. Fedor Emelianenko vs. Heath Herring Pride 23

7. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Enson Inoue Pride 19

8. Igor Vovchanchyn vs. Quinton Jackson Pride 22

9. Wanderlei Silva vs. Mirko Filipovic Pride 20

10. Quinton Jackson vs. Masaaki Satake Pride 20

11. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Semmy Schilt Pride 23

12. Ricardo Arona vs. Murilo Rua Pride 23

13. Kevin Randleman vs. Murilo Rua Pride 24

14. Igor Vovchanchyn vs. Heath Herring Pride 19

15. Dan Henderson vs. Ricardo Arona Pride 20

16. Jeremy Horn vs. Gilbert Yvel Pride 21

17. Ken Shamrock vs. Don Frye Pride 19

18. Alistair Overeem vs. Bazigit Ataev Pride 24

19. Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Mirko Filipovic Shockwave

20. Anderson Silva vs. Alexander Otsuka Pride 22

21. Wanderlei Silva vs. Kiyoshi Tamura Pride 19

22. Guy Mezger vs. Yoshihisa Yamamoto Pride 22

23. Don Frye vs. Hidehiko Yoshida Pride 23

24. Guy Mezger vs. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira Pride 24

25. Fedor Emelianenko vs. Semmy Schilt Pride 21

26. Gary Goodridge vs. Achmed Labasanov Pride 21

27. Rodrigo Gracie vs. Yuki Sasaki Pride 24

28. Renzo Gracie vs. Shungo Oyama Pride 21