So, why do we need an Admins Only folder?

[Dr. Tom 0]

Before I go any further, nothing in this thread is to be discussed with anyone on the board who is not an Admin. This includes the global mods, and most certainly includes all members. If you can't adhere to that, hit the Back button on your browser now, and it'll be no harm, no foul.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll wait.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still here?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alrighty then.

 

 

 

 

 

So I get an IM from Dames earlier this evening. Apparently, he's getting pistol-whipped by his bills, including the need for a new car, and would like to clear up his expenses. Unfortunately, the domain and hardware expenses of a website do not necessarily fall high in the priority chain. So here's what's being discussed (and keep in mind this is only being discussed -- nothing is definite yet).

 

Dames and Mike are figuring out how to reduce the TCO of the site to about $50 a month. That's the good news. The bad news is, someone would have to pay the bill. So I'm asking you folks, my fellow admins, if you'd be willing to bear any of the burden for it. No one will be asked to foot the whole bill; right now, we're just trying to see if paying for the site is something that can be done as a group by the staff.

 

Please reply here with your thoughts on this, as well as whether or not you'd be willing and able to pay a portion of the monthly site expenses. No one will hate you if say you aren't.

 

And remember, don't discuss this with ANYONE who is not an admin.

 

Here are some relevant snippets from the AIM log:

 

TheDames7: Well, I'll be upfront with you Tom. You've been around with me the longest.

EntropyAD: That sounds ominous.

TheDames7: I'm running into financial trouble.

TheDames7: The LAST thing I want to do is shut down the site.

EntropyAD: But reality is reality.

TheDames7: Well yeah....but at the same time, its something that we all worked really hard on and I don't want that effort to just die.

EntropyAD: Neither do I.

TheDames7: Since I'm barely around anymore and I don't write anymore (not by choice), its made thoughts like dropping the site easier to deal with.

EntropyAD: Understandable.

TheDames7: ...so basically, my question is this....would you be interested in continuing forward with the site, forum, anything...with you in charge?

EntropyAD: Well, the question with the site is paying for it. And I'm not going to do that. The forums, sure.

TheDames7: Actually, Mike and I have been shopping around and trying to come up with ideas to lower the per month cost...which if I can do, then that's great.

EntropyAD: Right. But if you need to jettison some expenses, it's also an easy thing to ditch.

TheDames7: Bring it down from 118 a month (lots of server space, since I also lease out some of it) to about 50 a month or so.

EntropyAD: That'd be nice.

TheDames7: yeah, exactly...but I don't want to just have the site die. I'd prefer to have someone take it and run with it.

TheDames7: I definitely dont want a panic or for there to be accusations of what happened the first time with SK to happen again.

TheDames7: I was thinking that if I could lower the cost per month to say about 50 bucks or so, do you think that it would be possible or even plausible to have some sort of consortium made up of mods or someone to collectively pay for the site together? I know that's just asking for in fighting, but I dont know what else to do, who else to ask.

EntropyAD: I can ask around, but that would require leaking this info.

TheDames7: Yeah, I know...but off the top of your head, think anyone would be interested in chipping in on a monthly basis?

EntropyAD: The problem is, one person would have to be ultimately accountable. And if the rest decided not to pay, then that one guy gets boned.

TheDames7: Yeah...I know. I'm trying to cover all of the bases here.

EntropyAD: Oh, I'm sure raising the funds would be a non-issue.

TheDames7: its just that the amount of money that I'm spending on a site...its a car payment.

TheDames7: and right now, I need a new car ASAP.

TheDames7: and I've tried cutting out as much as I can already and this is my last resort.

EntropyAD: You have to take care of your priorities.

TheDames7: And at one time, the site and everyone involved was my priority. I feel almost selfish and assholish to even consider this.

EntropyAD: Dude, you have a job now. You live on your own. Priorities change. I see it all the time.

EntropyAD: Here's an idea.

EntropyAD: I'll create an Admins Only folder on the board. And I'll make a post in there about this situation and see what the other admins want to do.

TheDames7: When do you plan on doing this?

EntropyAD: I can do it tonight. Or I can wait. It's up to you.

TheDames7: Alright. Please make it very explicit that I don't want this info leaked outside of the Admins and I most definitely will be posting in that thread.

TheDames7: ...And also, please note that it isn't a definite that I'm giving up the site, I just want to see what the options are for now.

EntropyAD: Ok. I'll do it later tonight.

TheDames7: Thanks Tom. I appreciate it.

 

So there you go.

[KingPK 0]

If it's $50, I think I could be able to throw in $5-maybe $10 a month. I don't have a credit card though, so I'm not sure how I'd get the money over.

 

If dropping the main site will cut it even further, I'd support that, since it's really just me and JHawk doing the regular lifting nowadays, and if there are no plans to build it up, it's just dead weight. It would create more server space to lease out, right? I'm not really privy into how all that works.

 

It'd suck if we have to close shop, but I certainly can understand Dames' predicament. How about doing like NMB and just starting anew with an Invision Free board?

[KingPK 0]

The more I think about it, I think we SHOULD drop the main site if it would save room and money. Frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of analyzing SmackDown each week. RAW is ok, but I haven't been looking forward to switching to SD every other month for a while. It's truly a two man show at TSM, and, though I can't speak for JHawk, I would find another place to post my stuff. It doesn't really matter either way to me.

 

I just hope that, if we close, we give the members a bit of warning and not be like SK when he left Delphi saying "Hey, I'm moving the board to ezBoard, bye!" and then "Hey, we're going to 411 and closing the Smarks, bye!!" Just as a courtesy. Especially the two e-feds, though the SWF seems to be getting their own site set up, and I brought the Invision Free idea up in the OaOast.

[IllustriousOne 0]

I'll be the first person to say that I need all the dollars and cents I can get lately.

 

I dropped out of school again, and I'm in between locations, while looking for a job. If something changes in the near future, I wouldn't mind contributing, but right now it's just out of the question.

[KingPK 0]

Me again. I think we should really think about the Invision Free idea. Here's their FAQ:

 

1. Does InvisionFree allow me to edit my board's logo, images, and style?... Yes, you can change the logo and replace it with your own. In addition, you can change the colors and images on your board.

 

2. Can I install modifications to my board?... No you can not. You can however request a feature to be added to all boards.

 

3. Can my board be backed up?... We perform frequent backups that are free and automatic. They are not available to download though.

 

4. What types of ads are displayed on my board?... Currently, a single text banner is displayed. The banner ad can be removed for a small fee. We do not sell your email address or the email addresses of those that register on your forum. We also do not display pop-ups or pop-under ads.

 

5. What type of support is available?... We give free full support that rivals support for paid services. You can receive support through our public support forum or by a private ticket system located in the Admin Control Panel of your board.

 

6. What limits exist on the free service?... We provide 16MB of space for uploaded files. You can purchase more space if you need it. You must agree to our Terms of Service. We do not limit the bandwidth (data transfer) of your forum. In addition we do not impose a limit on the number of posts, topics, or members your free forum has.

 

7. Do you provide FTP access?... We do not provide FTP access at this time. Images and attachments can be uploaded from your browser.

 

8. How is the service free?... InvisionFree is supported by the banner ads at the top of each forum.

 

9. What will my URL look like?... The URL of you board will look similar to s6.invisionfree.com/yourboard/

 

The banner ads don't bother me in the slightest and we don't really upload much stuff. There is a ToS though, so you should look that over as well.

[The Dames 0]

FYI, I just recently renewed the domain name for the next 2 years and you can use it for the forums if the main site is decided upon to be dropped.

 

Dames

[IllustriousOne 0]

The only problem with InvisionFree is that they plan for smaller communities, of which this is not.

[Sass 0]

I was going to ask Chris Hyatte if he would write for TSM's main page, since he's had a pretty nasty ordeal lately with InsiderPulse and Widro. He looked ripe for the picking. I thought I could make one more go at making the front page for reading for folks, by getting Hyatte and some of his friends like Eric S. and Flea to write, but I think I'm going to hold off on doing that.

 

I do not want to have a financial stake in TSM. Sorry, that's how I feel.

 

Do what must be done.

[KingPK 0]

The only problem with InvisionFree is that they plan for smaller communities, of which this is not.

I dunno, we probably have a ton of accounts that haven't been touched in a while again, and the lurkers that signed up once we closed the board to guests.

 

It says we have 2868 members, but probably only a fraction of those are actual regular contributors. We could reopen the new place to guest viewing, and regulary prune inactive accounts (say, ones that haven't posted in a month or two.)

 

And they say there's no cap on the number of members a board can have, which they would have if they did want smaller boards.

[Dr. Tom 0]

But is there a cap on the quantity of data you can have? Bandwidth? While we don't have as many active members as our total would suggest, even 800 active members might run us afoul of something like the new INvisionFree. We can keep what we have now if there's a way found to pay for it. Otherwise, I'm all for the free solution, as long as it's feasible. I remember, in the latter days of the Smarks EZBoard, they had to keep chopping things down to keep the board free. I don't want to repeat that.

[KingPK 0]

6. What limits exist on the free service?... We provide 16MB of space for uploaded files. You can purchase more space if you need it. You must agree to our Terms of Service. We do not limit the bandwidth (data transfer) of your forum. In addition we do not impose a limit on the number of posts, topics, or members your free forum has.

 

This might change down the road, but that's their policy now. I'm guessing, but probably having ads on the forums along with the fact that you have to pay to license a board upgrade (which is partly why we haven't done it) allows them to have this free service.

[Dr. Tom 0]

Hmm. We have Sass and Josh definitely against paying anything toward the site, me philosophically against it but maybe willing to kick in a part of it, and PK willing to pay 5-10 a month toward it.

 

I think this can be taken to the general Staff folder and see if the GMods are willing and able to cover the rest. If not, it looks like we'll be going with the Invision Free plan. Thoughts?

[admin 0]

Update!!!

 

First off, I would simply like to state that finding on of these free host or something will NOT work. The server pushes our current server to 100% usage on the peaks and maintains at an average of 48% usage overall. The traffic is approx 115-125Gb per month, and the current Database size is: 1.4Gigs.

There is no reason or method to lower these values and no one will host these numbers for free because we already use our whole own server. The main site it self does not place much of a drain at all because of its well engineered system. The main site is all static .shtml files which don't require any processing, just bandwidth. The forums are another story...

 

I am working out some details still, but we are going to be moving servers again and I think this will be the last time for a LONG time.

The new setup will be co-located in a facility in Fort Worth, Texas. The monthly payments will be $49 a month. The main problem is that you are required to sign at least a 1 year contract and pay all up front. The second difference between this setup and our current, is that we will build our own server instead of lease one. I have already started building our own server to host there.

Currently the specs will be the following:

Single Xeon 2.66 GHz, 533 Bus, 512k Cache (Expandable to dual processors)

1GB Ram running Dual Channel DDR, 512Mb DDR400 x 2 (Expandable to 4 GB)

Dual Hitachi 80Gb Hard Drives, 8Mb Cache, 7200Rpm, SATA 150 (Running Mirroring Raid probably, could stripe) Could add a third drive later on for Raid 3 striping

Asus Motherboard

1U Server Case

1500Gb max, you pay extra for more.

 

The nice thing about this server is we can add another CPU later to literally double its power down the road and not have to overhaul anything. Also we pay $49 a month no matter what the specs are, just as long as it fits in a 1U case, which is 1.7 inches thick, 18 inches wide, and 26 inches deep. (Basically two pizza boxes attached on the sides.)

 

Our current servers specs are:

Pentium 4 Celeron 1.7 GHz

1 GB Ram PC-133

40 GB hard drive ATA-66, maybe ATA-100

Generic Motherboard

PC Mid Tower

700Gb Traffic max, you pay extra for more.

 

The second part to this new setup is we have to fund the new server, compared to leasing one. Currently the server’s cost is about $800, of which I will be paying for half of it. All the parts I have ordered are new, and come with manufactures warranty. The operating system will probably be RedHat Linux, as our current server runs this.

 

Overall we will need to figure out the money issue, just as in the past I had to front some money when SK left, I am willing to do it again. Basically we will need to front $400 @ least for the server itself and $600 for the co-location, after those expenses, we will have our server running for 1 year, no payments, etc. The following year it will only cost $600, which is almost 2.5x what we are paying a year now. I am hoping to have this switch done by the 8th of May, because that’s when the old server’s payments are due. That way we are out of that mess and we can move forward from there. I have no problem fronting the money, as I have already almost finished purchasing the server parts, however figuring out payment plans back would be nice.

 

Also I have not tried much online advertising, but we could try ourselves to place some small ads on the forums or something. I am not really for it, but it may be worth a try. Also to help with the money side of things would be to find more SWF type sites or other sites to host them, and charge starting @ $10+ a month depending on their needs. The server will handle it and we will have plenty of bandwidth at the new place.

 

If anyone has questions you can contact me via AIM, or E-Mail me @ [email protected]

[KingPK 0]

So we will have to come up with a thousand dollars in a month?

 

Goodbye TSM, how we will miss ye. Unless we ask every member to PayPal a dollar to us.

[admin 0]

No, No, No, I am taking care of all that, the new server will be $50 a month + cost of parts. The current server is about $120 a month. So make the new payments for server like $100 a month and only for 10 months or something. Just as long as I get paid back. If you really wanted to stretch it, you could pay $83 a month for the first year, and then after that it would be $50 a month.

 

Sorry to make it come off so bad like that.

[KingPK 0]

Ok, that sounds better. If that's the case, I'd still be willing to pitch in $5 a month ($10 if I can). I think we could see if some of the other mods would pitch in or, if it comes that far, asking the board at large.

[admin 0]

Dames, whenever you get a chance, please IM me as I need to know who is paying you what and we need to redirect that my way. The new server is going well, waiting on minor parts, it is up and running nice and loud as servers do.

I would like to make a list of every body paying currently and get a set day monthly which they all pay or something. The EV1 server will not be charging this coming month.

I have also signed the contract with the new company and everythings ready to go almost.

So, but I will wait until everything is for sure to let them know.

[admin 0]

Ok guys, So far everything is going great. I will be installing the server at the co-location facilities tomorrow @ 6pm. Within a few days I should have a test/demo/mirror of the current server on it for testing making sure the new version of software and such since this server is a bit out dated. Within a few days of that we will move over the forums or site first, with the other soon following. I am hoping to have it with little to no down time, except when I do the database backup, the forums will have to close and no one can be on it doing anything. At this point I will copy the Forums DB to the new server and map the old server to the new, there will also be intermittent outages as DNS servers across the US update, but those are unpredictable. I will keep you guys up to date and hope to have things moved by the first of May, so we can terminate our other contract on time (8th).

 

Mike

[Dr. Tom 0]

So far, the response among the staff to footing the bill as a unit has been quite underwhelming.

 

Dames, I think the Paypal option may be best.

[admin 0]

FYI: Also IF we do the PayPal thing, we need to setup an real account such as [email protected] NOT some other account which could latter be passed off as an fake. I wouldn't start asking for donations yet, as I need to determine the exact cost after everything been setup and moved over.

 

Mike,

[Sass 0]

Thanks Mike.