Guest Vitamin X Posted May 6, 2005 Report Posted May 6, 2005 There are a number of point guards who could have played for the Suns this year in that system and put up the same numbers or close to the same numbers as Steve Nash, as well as played better defense: Baron Davis, Kirk Hinrich, Andre Miller, Jamaal Tinsley, Dwyane Wade, Sam Cassell, Jason Kidd, Stephon Marbury, Mike Bibby, and Tony Parker all come to mind. I look at it this way: Nash left the Mavs and they won more games this year without him. Shaq leaves the Lakers and they miss the playoffs. So who looks more valuable? Besides, it's bullshit that Shaq has been the most dominant player in the NBA for years but only has one MVP. I think voters are always trying to make the non-obvious choice, always trying to be different. That's why Michael Jordan doesn't have more MVPs. This argument is flawed, but I guess it bears repeating again. Dallas got a stronger team, and managed to keep their team chemistry when Nash left, so they won more games. The Suns had practically no changes to their team except for Nash and Richardson. The Heat traded half their starters and only 5 Lakers on the current roster are leftover from last year's team (Kobe, Devean George, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, and yes... SLAVA MEDVEDENKO!), including their coach whose arrival coincided with 3 straight championships, and an NBA Finals appearance. The one year neither of those happened, they lost to the eventual NBA Champs. Trading Shaq undeniably made them a weaker team in the short-term, but you can't pinpoint the Lakers' downfall solely on Shaq's departure. Injuries, midseason coaching changes, and almost the entire roster being overhauled played a tremendous part in the Lakers' downfall, ALONG with Shaq. The Mavericks didn't have nearly the offseason turmoil that the Lakers did, so using what Nash and Shaq's previous teams did without them to prove how good they are this season isn't really a strong argument.
Precious Roy Posted May 6, 2005 Report Posted May 6, 2005 There are a number of point guards who could have played for the Suns this year in that system and put up the same numbers or close to the same numbers as Steve Nash, as well as played better defense: Baron Davis, Kirk Hinrich, Andre Miller, Jamaal Tinsley, Dwyane Wade, Sam Cassell, Jason Kidd, Stephon Marbury, Mike Bibby, and Tony Parker all come to mind. You're insane. Kidd is a no-brainer, Bibby maybe could have had a comparable year, but give me a fucking break!! You KNOW Nash can't get respect when dudes are talking about Tony Parker and Sam Cassell
MrRant Posted May 6, 2005 Report Posted May 6, 2005 Ugh... I just saw Stephen Jackson on ESPN saying he "Went to war" for his team. Â I hate it when people do that...
CanadianChris Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 There are a number of point guards who could have played for the Suns this year in that system and put up the same numbers or close to the same numbers as Steve Nash, as well as played better defense: Baron Davis, Kirk Hinrich, Andre Miller, Jamaal Tinsley, Dwyane Wade, Sam Cassell, Jason Kidd, Stephon Marbury, Mike Bibby, and Tony Parker all come to mind. MVP isn't a measure of value over replacement player. Nash came in and the Suns won over twice as many games. Period. Miami was the fourth seed in the playoffs last year -- they didn't make nearly as big a jump with Shaq as the Suns did with Nash. Plus, the Suns were piss-poor whenever Nash was out of the lineup. Miami didn't suffer quite as bad a drop-off when they were missing Shaq. Â I look at it this way: Nash left the Mavs and they won more games this year without him. Shaq leaves the Lakers and they miss the playoffs. So who looks more valuable? You can't look at that unless neither team made any moves besides getting rid of Shaq and Nash. I guarantee you that if the Mavs had stood pat, besides letting Nash go, they would've been in the bottom half of the conference. They went out and got players that made the team better. The Lakers got the wrong players, and never adequately replaced anyone they lost last year -- point guard, power forward, center, head coach. It wasn't just Shaq that left.
Styles Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 Can we get this game on TNT so Charles Barkley can yell at the Wizatds again for their lack of passing and poor shot selection? God, Arenas, Dixon and Jamison are just firing away and Chicago has really stepped up it's defense this game which doesn't help...
Styles Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 Larry Hughes with 2 beautiful steals in a row. Tyson Chandler with a shoulderblock for a flagrant. Bill Walton is disgusted. Well, he always is.
Styles Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 Great first half, both teams have really turned it on. I want to see the Wizards win today of course, but it's almost like the series deserves another game...
Guest Vitamin X Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 This series and Dallas/Houston have definitely been the most fun to watch so far.
Styles Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 Uggg....that 3rd quarter was ugly. Arenas needs to just stop shooting and start looking to make plays for others, I'm loving the hard play inside and the rebounds by Ruffin and Thomas, but our shooters need to shoot better!
The Electrifyer Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 It wasn't just ugly for you. Bulls didn't score in the final 5 mins or so either.
The Electrifyer Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 Duhon's back is broken, Gordon is basically just watching the game... I think it's Pargo's time please.
The Electrifyer Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 Chris Duhon sacrificing his body and back~!
The Electrifyer Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 I trembled a little in fear when Griffin brought the ball up court and got double teamed by Hughes. That is a very dangerous situation.
bobobrazil1984 Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 jebus, the Bulls are just collapsing on these few possessions. Like 3 turnovers in a row. The crowd and situation seems to be rattling them, this is where lack of experience and poise is hurting them.
Styles Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 Oh man, this is nuts. It's like both teams can't hit and as a result, it's incredibly close. Strangely, last game I believe it was about 40 seconds left when the Bulls shot off 10 points. Hopefully that doesn't happen this time...
Styles Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 OH MY OH MY OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!
Brett Favre Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 Why the hell would you go to the ball, look at the passer as if you're recieving the pass and then TURN AWAY? They need to pull a Game 5, except win.
Styles Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 BRING ON SHAQ BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brett Favre Posted May 7, 2005 Report Posted May 7, 2005 What the fuck did Chandler just do? I feel bad for Hinrich who played his ass off, and didn't make boneheaded shit plays at the end.
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