Texas Legislators vote to ban gay foster parents

[Ripper 0]

They actually are obvious. Like "i'm going to shoot some fags" followed by shooting people at gay bar. I am going to go out on a limb and say, yeah...MAYBE that had something to do with the person being gay. the amount of crimes that were caused by "he was hittin on me" are because of a persons sexual orientation. Hell, if you really want look at it, there are a shit load of crimes committed because they thought the person was gay and they weren't really. Those count also.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Let's say that just 1/2 of the 1,430 crimes in 2003 reported by the FBI were what MikeSC would call "real" anti-homosexual crimes and the other 1/2 were merely creations of the LIBRUL ESTABLUSHMUNT~!. Even this would show that gays face more than what Slapnuts! referred to as "some inconvenience."

[Styles 0]

Let's say that just 1/2 of the 1,430 crimes in 2003 reported by the FBI were what MikeSC would call "real" anti-homosexual crimes and the other 1/2 were merely creations of the LIBRUL ESTABLUSHMUNT~!.  Even this would show that gays face more than what Slapnuts! referred to as "some inconvenience."

What I referred to as "inconveniance" was procedural, that is inflicted by the goverment. The Jews were NOT CITIZENS in Nazi Germany and institutionally set up for slaughter. The US government doesn't give tax breaks for marriage to gays and they might have some trouble with anti-discrimination legislation in the workplace. That's about it. Whatever intolerant assholes do, is their own personal business and actions, and they are justly charged and punished for their crimes. It's a world of difference which still makes Nazi Germany a stupid and insulting analogy...

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Let's say that just 1/2 of the 1,430 crimes in 2003 reported by the FBI were what MikeSC would call "real" anti-homosexual crimes and the other 1/2 were merely creations of the LIBRUL ESTABLUSHMUNT~!.  Even this would show that gays face more than what Slapnuts! referred to as "some inconvenience."

What I referred to as "inconveniance" was procedural, that is inflicted by the goverment. The Jews were NOT CITIZENS in Nazi Germany and institutionally set up for slaughter. The US government doesn't give tax breaks for marriage to gays and they might have some trouble with anti-discrimination legislation in the workplace. That's about it. Whatever intolerant assholes do, is their own personal business and actions, and they are justly charged and punished for their crimes. It's a world of difference which still makes Nazi Germany a stupid and insulting analogy...

Agreed. I misunderstood your argument.

 

However, MikeSC agreed with my misunderstood version of your argument.

[SuperJerk 0]

Let's say that just 1/2 of the 1,430 crimes in 2003 reported by the FBI were what MikeSC would call "real" anti-homosexual crimes and the other 1/2 were merely creations of the LIBRUL ESTABLUSHMUNT~!.  Even this would show that gays face more than what Slapnuts! referred to as "some inconvenience."

What I referred to as "inconveniance" was procedural, that is inflicted by the goverment. The Jews were NOT CITIZENS in Nazi Germany and institutionally set up for slaughter. The US government doesn't give tax breaks for marriage to gays and they might have some trouble with anti-discrimination legislation in the workplace. That's about it. Whatever intolerant assholes do, is their own personal business and actions, and they are justly charged and punished for their crimes. It's a world of difference which still makes Nazi Germany a stupid and insulting analogy...

Only insulting to anti-gay bigots.

 

 

You're vastly understating the amount of persecution gays face.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Yeah, Slapnuts, why can't you be less ignorant.

 

Why just this afternoon, I went into a public restroom and this homo was being forced to, uh, go into the men's room, which wouldn't be good because, uh, he would like dicks and, uh, feel uncomfortable because he'd be getting aroused and, uh, start shooting uring all over the place because the erection would alter his urinal aim. Yeah...

[Styles 0]

Let's say that just 1/2 of the 1,430 crimes in 2003 reported by the FBI were what MikeSC would call "real" anti-homosexual crimes and the other 1/2 were merely creations of the LIBRUL ESTABLUSHMUNT~!.  Even this would show that gays face more than what Slapnuts! referred to as "some inconvenience."

What I referred to as "inconveniance" was procedural, that is inflicted by the goverment. The Jews were NOT CITIZENS in Nazi Germany and institutionally set up for slaughter. The US government doesn't give tax breaks for marriage to gays and they might have some trouble with anti-discrimination legislation in the workplace. That's about it. Whatever intolerant assholes do, is their own personal business and actions, and they are justly charged and punished for their crimes. It's a world of difference which still makes Nazi Germany a stupid and insulting analogy...

Only insulting to anti-gay bigots.

 

 

You're vastly understating the amount of persecution gays face.

And you're overstating it. There's a world of difference between government making discrimination against a race of people the law to set them up for deportation and slaughter and a minority of the population who acts violently on their own voilition against a misunderstood lifestyle which is punished not endorsed by the government.

 

Give it up, your analogy sucked and was sensational. Even the liberals on the board are against you on this one...

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Only insulting to anti-gay bigots.

 

 

You're vastly understating the amount of persecution gays face.

 

No, it is insulting to those who actually suffered through the Holocaust and their families.

[SuperJerk 0]

I'll say it one more time: I am not comparing anti-gay laws to the Holocaust.

 

I was talking about the Nuremberg Laws, which also took place during the time the Nazis were in control of Europe.

 

Everytime someone uses the word "Nazi", everyone thinks that person means the Holocaust. The Nazis did a lot more than just that.

 

And you're overstating it. There's a world of difference between government making discrimination against a race of people the law to set them up for deportation and slaughter and a minority of the population who acts violently on their own voilition against a misunderstood lifestyle which is punished not endorsed by the government.

Whoa...whoa...whoa...

 

I think you're taking my comparison too far. I never said anything about setting gays up for deportation and slaughter.

 

As I've already said, I was comparing the discrimination gays face (both socially and in the form of proposed anti-gay legislation) to the discrimination Jews faced around the time that the Nuremberg Laws were passed.

 

Gays are being labelled a "threat to families" and there are politicians who openly support barring them from positions of power, as well as limiting their ability to have families of their own (via marriage, adopting children, or becoming foster parents). Some political leaders went as far as to blame gays for the "moral decay" that allowed 9/11 to happen. Its already illegal for gays to have sex in many states (sodomy laws). An Alabama legislator even recently proposed a ban on books with gay characters! Major power-brokers within conservative politics (i.e. the Religous Right) have endorsed the idea that homosexuality is a social problem.

 

You can't tell me that in no way resembles how Jews were thought of and treated around the time that the Nazis came to power in Germany.

[Styles 0]

You know, I actually decided to look up the Nurenberg Laws (a precursor to much harsher laws and eventually the Holocaust) to see how accurate your potrayal was.

 

The Nurenberg Laws. Jews 1935 vs. Gays 2005.

 

Round 1!

 

A citizen of the Reich may be only one who is of

German or kindred blood...Only the citizen of the Reich may enjoy full political

rights in consonance with the provisions of the laws.

 

Gays are allowed to be citizens regardless of their race, and enjoy the same political rights as all Americans.

 

Jews 1 Gays 0

 

Round 2!

 

The Reich Minister of the Interior, in conjunction with

the Deputy to the Fuehrer, may revoke citizenship.

 

Gays can not have their citizenship revoked (lest they commit treason).

 

Jews 2 Gays 0

 

Round 3!

 

The provisions of Article I shall apply also to

subjects who are of mixed Jewish blood. An individual of mixed Jewish blood is one who is descended from one or two grandparents who, racially, were full

Jews, insofar that he is not a Jew according to Section 2 of

Article 5.  Full-blooded Jewish grandparents are those who

belonged to the Jewish religious community.

 

People with gay family members do not lose their citizenship, nor is their racist language in our laws that define what it means to be a gay.

 

Jews 3 Gays 0

 

Round 4!

 

Only citizens of the Reich, as bearers of full

political rights, can exercise the right of voting in political

matters, and have the right to hold public office.

 

Gays can and do vote, and can do hold political office.

 

Jews 4 Gays 0

 

Round 5!

 

A Jew cannot be a citizen of the Reich.  He

cannot exercise the right to vote; he cannot hold public office.

 

No language in our laws single out gays exempting them from particiapting in government.

 

Jews 5 Gays 0

 

Round 6!

 

Jewish officials will be retired as of December 31, 1935...They shall not, however, be promoted according to

their seniority in rank.

 

Gays are not forced from their government jobs and denied promotion or pension.

 

Jews 6 Gays 0

 

Round 7!

 

The conditions regarding service of teachers in public

Jewish schools remains unchanged until the promulgation of new

laws on the Jewish school system.

 

Gays are not forced to attend their own seperate schools which are regulated by the government.

 

Jews 7 Gays 0

 

Round 8!

 

A Jew is an individual who is descended from at

least three grandparents who were, racially, full Jews...

  (2)  A Jew is also an individual who is descended from two

full-Jewish grandparents if: 

  (a)  he was a member of the Jewish religious community when   

      this law was issued, or joined the community later;

  (b)  when the law was issued, he was married to a person who   

      was a Jew, or was subsequently married to a Jew;

  ©  he is the issue from a marriage with a Jew, in the sense

      of Section I, which was contracted after the coming into

      effect of the Law for the Protection of German Blood and

      Honor of September 15, 1935;

  (d)  he is the issue of an extramarital relationship with a

      Jew, in the sense of Section I, and was born out of

      wedlock after July 31, 1936.

 

Gays are not classified by law as having relatives who were gay or being a part of a "gay community". You are further not "condemned" as gay if you once had an affair with someone who was gay (bisexual?)

 

Jews 8 Gays 0

 

And the fight is stopped after 8 rounds do to incredible stupidity of the argument.

 

And you're going to be a teacher!? No wonder kids these days have no clue about anything...

[Slayer 0]

The Nazis did a lot more than just that.

Yeah, when was the last time Republicans made the trains run on time anyway?!

[Styles 0]

The Nazis did a lot more than just that.

Yeah, when was the last time Republicans made the trains run on time anyway?!

Actually, it was Mussolini's Facist Italy that "made the trains run on time". Nazi Germany's trains were constantly delayed, mainly because packing as many Jews as they did into them takes time.

[Slayer 0]

*makes note to self to smack Slapnuts later*

[SuperJerk 0]

I'm not actually arguing that gays are in exactly the same positions the Jews were in. I'm saying there's glaring SIMILARITIES.

 

Gays are allowed to be citizens regardless of their race, and enjoy the same political rights as all Americans.

 

 

Gays are denied the right to marry, and can loose their job for being gay in many states.

 

Gays can not have their citizenship revoked (lest they commit treason).

 

True.

 

People with gay family members do not lose their citizenship, nor is their racist language in our laws that define what it means to be a gay.

 

Homosexual acts are still a crime in many states.

 

Gays can and do vote, and can do hold political office.

 

The Texas delegation at the 2000 Republican Convention tried to get a gay politician barred from addressing the Convention, simply for being gay.

 

No language in our laws single out gays exempting them from particiapting in government. Gays are not forced from their government jobs and denied promotion or pension.

 

Gays are not allowed to serve openly in the military.

 

Gays are not forced to attend their own seperate schools which are regulated by the government.

 

In many school districts, parents have pressured school boards to ban gays from teaching.

 

And the fight is stopped after 8 rounds do to incredibly stupidity of the argument.

 

You're the one trying to paint my argument as being something it isn't.

I'm saying there's SIMILARITIES. I'm not actually arguing that gays are in exactly the same positions the Jews were in.

 

And you're going to be a teacher!? No wonder kids these days have no clue about anything...

 

Nice cheap shot.

 

For your information, I've already been teaching for several years, which is why I'm able to open my eyes to how bigotted this country is.

 

Every time a politician uses anti-gay rhetoric and legislation to win popular support, I can't help but draw parrallels to another time this happened.

[SuperJerk 0]

double post

 

(damn server)

Edited April 26, 2005 by RobotJerk

[Styles 0]

For your information, I've already been teaching for several years, which is why I'm able to open my eyes to how bigotted this country is.

Awww....would you like a band-aid for your bleeding heart?

 

The only point I'll give you is the not being able to serve in the military. Otherwise they are citizens in every sense of the word. All you can come up is "well isolated incident here" and "oh, idiot here reprimanded/denied by the government".

 

The comparison is not valid. If you're going to compare something to Nazi Germany, thereby demeaning the very real suffering and atrocity suffered by so many you better make sure it's a damn accurate comparison. You've already admitted it isn't. DROP IT. Admit you were wrong. It's very rare the conservatives and liberals all agree on something around here, and this is it (nothing to do with the original topic obviously).

[SuperJerk 0]

All you can come up is "well isolated incident here" and "oh, idiot here reprimanded/denied by the government".

 

The comparison is not valid. If you're going to compare something to Nazi Germany, thereby demeaning the very real suffering and atrocity suffered by so many you better make sure it's a damn accurate comparison.

I love all this holier than thou "Its an insult to Jews" crap you guys are throwing at me, since none of you fuckers ever seemed to care about Jews before.

 

I also don't care for your insistence that any time someone wants to use the Nazis as part of a metaphor, every part of the comparison needs to line up perfectly with everything the Nazis ever did. (I fear for anyone who dares compare the highway systems of the US and Germany for fear that someone point out that Eisenhower didn't exterminate 6 million Jews.)

 

Until I replied to you, I hadn't posted on this thread in 3 days. You guys insisted on bringing it up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over because you never understood that I wasn't trying to make a literal comparison.

I was generalizing.

 

 

I'm not apologizing for the metaphor, or anything else I've said in this thread, because its obvious to me that you have no clue how hated and mistreated gays are in this country. Gay bashing has become a national pass-time.

 

No, we're not to the point that Nazis treated the Jews after the Nuremberg Laws were passed, but when I see a political party making an anti-gay Constitutional Amendment a major part of the President's reelection campaign, I wonder how many years it will be before we are to that point.

 

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

[NoCalMike 0]

The fact that gays cannot get married by the state, is enough in itself to say this country is still bigoted in some ways. Add to that the banning of gay foster parents, and the fact that people actually feel someone should not be able to be a teacher based on sexual orientation. The Nazi comparison and the Nurenburg comparisons are irrelevent whether proven true or false, because it shouldn't ever have to get THAT BAD before we recognize daily discrimination.

[Styles 0]

All you can come up is "well isolated incident here" and "oh, idiot here reprimanded/denied by the government".

 

The comparison is not valid. If you're going to compare something to Nazi Germany, thereby demeaning the very real suffering and atrocity suffered by so many you better make sure it's a damn accurate comparison.

I love all this holier than thou "Its an insult to Jews" crap you guys are throwing at me, since none of you fuckers ever seemed to care about Jews before.

Don't project your opinions on to others. If you don't care about Jews, that has nothing to do with us.

 

You compared the treatment of gays to the Nurrenberg laws, I showed that to be false.

 

It's obvious you're not backing down from your stupidity, which is ok, as someone with a top rated show in primetime likes to say on a network we know is fair and balanced and can lol at, "let the folks decide".

 

Oh and I forgot your band-aid, here you go:

 

[Slayer 0]

I love all this holier than thou "Its an insult to Jews" crap you guys are throwing at me, since none of you fuckers ever seemed to care about Jews before.

Slapnuts has this hard-on for Israel...

 

That's all I know though

[SuperJerk 0]

You compared the treatment of gays to the Nurrenberg laws, I showed that to be false.

 

Just for the record, here's the comparison I did make to the Nuremberg Laws, back on page 1:

 

Are the restrictions on gays beginning to resemble the Nuremberg Laws? Yes.

 

Note the words "beginning to resemble".

 

I never said "exactly like".

 

 

My metaphor is only applying conditions surrounding the enactment of the Nuremberg Laws to the anti-gay legislation in Texas.

 

Again, let me point out my use of the words "conditions surrounding", and AGAIN not the words "exactly like".

 

This entire thread has been an exercise in setting up straw men to attack.

 

(Please note that I mean metaphorical "straw men", and not actual men who are made out of straw.)

[Styles 0]

I love all this holier than thou "Its an insult to Jews" crap you guys are throwing at me, since none of you fuckers ever seemed to care about Jews before.

Slapnuts has this hard-on for Israel...

 

That's all I know though

No hard-on. Just don't like to see it attacked unfairly, which is why I liked posting from that site I found.

 

See, you can't say "I didn't care about Jews before". So there.

 

Thanks Slayer, forgot about that.

[Styles 0]

You compared the treatment of gays to the Nurrenberg laws, I showed that to be false.

 

Just for the record, here's the comparison I did make to the Nuremberg Laws, back on page 1:

 

Are the restrictions on gays beginning to resemble the Nuremberg Laws? Yes.

 

Note the words "beginning to resemble".

 

I never said "exactly like".

 

 

My metaphor is only applying conditions surrounding the enactment of the Nuremberg Laws to the anti-gay legislation in Texas.

 

Again, let me point out my use of the words "conditions surrounding", and AGAIN not the words "exactly like".

 

This entire thread has been an exercise in setting up straw men to attack.

 

(Please note that I mean metaphorical "straw men", and not actual men who are made out of straw.)

Logic like this allows "gays are starting to resemble terrorists" seem valid. (NOTE: I don't believe that). It's like saying "well, terrorists want to change an American institution in liberty and gays want to change another institution in marriage! But, see I don't really mean they're EXACTLY like terrorists, just sort of. I thought it would be cool to use the strong language.

 

That's an equivalent of what you're saying.

[SuperJerk 0]

Except in my metaphor, the concepts were actually related by a common theme (discrimination and bigotry), whereas your false comparison relies purely on wording for similarities.

[Styles 0]

Well, we're just playing word games at this point. You think the treatment of gays resembles the Nurrenberg laws, I don't.

 

"Let the folks decide...hey, what are you wearing?"

[SuperJerk 0]

Well, we're just playing word games at this point. You think the treatment of gays resembles the Nurrenberg laws, I don't.

 

This, unfortunately, has ALWAYS been word games.

 

Then again, if you guys had been attacking me for what I actually meant, rather than what you collectively thought I meant, then the board would've been denied the shining moment where it united to oppose me.

 

 

So this is what it feels like to be Trent Lott...

[Slayer 0]

Slapnuts never cared about Jews before

[Styles 0]

Slapnuts never cared about Jews before

I never looked at Robot Jerk as a Jewish man, never.

[Guest MikeSC]

Let's say that just 1/2 of the 1,430 crimes in 2003 reported by the FBI were what MikeSC would call "real" anti-homosexual crimes and the other 1/2 were merely creations of the LIBRUL ESTABLUSHMUNT~!. Even this would show that gays face more than what Slapnuts! referred to as "some inconvenience."

715 occurrences.

 

In a country of 260M+.

 

Yeah, HUGE problem.

-=Mike

[SuperJerk 0]

It seems as though there's a consensus of opinion amongst conservatives that gays haven't quite suffered enough yet.

 

 

I'd like for one of you to explain what you consider an acceptable level of bigotry.