2 top 100 Video Game Lists

[Anya 0]

Sunday night is good for me. Wednesday and thursday too.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Mondays are usually good for me too, especially during Raw.

 

Flik or someone else can make a master list of the panel's AIM names, so we can talk to each other, bounce ideas, etc. before the deadline?

 

Regarding the updates/versions issue, I agree with the majority, to an extent. If it's the same game across multiple platforms with minor differences (ex: Soul Calibur 2, GTA III and Vice City, Viewtiful Joe) then it shouldn't matter. However, if a game is different enough (RE for GC, MGS: Twin Snakes, various versions of Street Fighter games), then I think we should count it.

Alright, for the discussion, let's try to hammer down a finalized day, and then make it a full week after the submission end date of the Top 30 lists. As I'll need at least a full week to compile the lists and get the final list created (cause of work and stuff), so while I don't mind it being awhile, at the same time it can't be too late, ya know? So let's get some dates/days at least tossed out. I'd say at least three weeks from this coming Monday myself we'll have the discussion and then take however much time is needed to produce a finalized product.

 

So this would be the schedule:

May 1st to May 8th - Submission Week

May 9th to May 15th - Time for the results to be done up by myself.

May 15th-17th - Discussion Day, Results (A full week, cause don't know the day).

May 17th to May 23rd - When we submit the finalized column to TSM.

 

Sounds alright? We may have to change that Discussion Day, but this should be a good timeline.

 

As for a list of panel AIM names, send me them via PM so I can put them into a list or something.

 

Since most people are going with this idea of the updates issue I'll agree.

[Renegade 0]

So we pm a top 30 list of games via pm with some sort of description? Sounds good.

 

Oh yeah I'm including Arcade games and remakes.

[AndrewTS 0]

This week's going to be a bit hectic this week--possibly for any other people having finals. I suppose I could ask for an extension if I need it.

[Lightning Flik 0]

This week's going to be a bit hectic this week--possibly for any other people having finals.  I suppose I could ask for an extension if I need it.

Extensions will be granted, as I can hopefully cut the marking time shorter, but we need to the have the discussion before the 20th, as one of the panel members will be "out of town" on that day.

 

Edit: Still waiting for like 7 people's AIMs so I can make the AIM list.

[Matt Young 0]

I know I'm a little late, but is there any chance I could get in on this?

[chaosrage 0]

4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. To this day, many people still argue over whether this game or Zelda 64 is the best Zelda game.

Those people are nuts. Wind Waker destroys Ocarina in every way I can think of. However, the best Zelda is either the original or Link's Awakening. Ocarina (like FF7) is really overrated. I could probably list 100 games better than Ocarina.

 

5. Final Fantasy VII. This was undoubtedly the greatest RPG of it's generation.

 

You need to play Final Fantasy Tactics, Xenogears, Suikoden 2, Dragon Warrior 7, Vagrant Story, Valkyrie Profile, Lunar 1 and 2 (if you count them), and Grandia for starters. FF7 wasn't anywhere close to the best RPG of it's generation.

[AndrewTS 0]

4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. To this day, many people still argue over whether this game or Zelda 64 is the best Zelda game.

Those people are nuts. Wind Waker destroys Ocarina in every way I can think of. However, the best Zelda is either the original or Link's Awakening. Ocarina (like FF7) is really overrated. I could probably list 100 games better than Ocarina.

You realize of course that a) you're in a very small minority on those opinions and b) you aren't really justifying those beliefs. Unlike my disagreements over FFVII, where myself and others on this board have already discussed the issue at length many, many times.

 

To me, Wind Waker is the Mario Sunshine to Ocarina's Mario 64. Good game, superior in some ways, but introduced a few nagging gripes, making it overall not at satisfying. Let be known that I *love* Wind Waker's visual style, too.

 

If you're asking to be a part of the panel, ask Flik. I doubt your choices are going to be any less popular than Anya's.

[Lightning Flik 0]

I know I'm a little late, but is there any chance I could get in on this?

Uh... Don't see why not... Unless someone objects...

[Special K 0]

FF7 is far better than Grandia, and better than the Lunars.

 

EDIT: And Xenogears. (Xenogears coulda been a contender, but blew it BAD)

[AndrewTS 0]

Ultimately, this is going to be the TSM posters' top 30 or so list of favorite games. Likely one of the FF games is going to pop up in the top ten, although it may not necessarily be the real best RPG.

 

I think we should just come and make it a favorites list.

 

^ didn't care for Grandia, and Lunar 1 and 2's translation really hits them hard, so I'm inclined to agree.

[Guest JebusNassedar]

4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. To this day, many people still argue over whether this game or Zelda 64 is the best Zelda game.

Those people are nuts. Wind Waker destroys Ocarina in every way I can think of. However, the best Zelda is either the original or Link's Awakening. Ocarina (like FF7) is really overrated. I could probably list 100 games better than Ocarina.

You realize of course that a) you're in a very small minority on those opinions and b) you aren't really justifying those beliefs. Unlike my disagreements over FFVII, where myself and others on this board have already discussed the issue at length many, many times.

 

To me, Wind Waker is the Mario Sunshine to Ocarina's Mario 64. Good game, superior in some ways, but introduced a few nagging gripes, making it overall not at satisfying. Let be known that I *love* Wind Waker's visual style, too.

 

If you're asking to be a part of the panel, ask Flik. I doubt your choices are going to be any less popular than Anya's.

Well, since I almost agree, I figure I'd voice why I dislike 90% Legend of Zelda.

 

Mow, I realize that to many people, Action RPGs are great fun! They combine simple gameplay with story, magic, and mysticism (Or firearms, in some cases.) to make a nice little package that satiates most gamers needs.

 

My problem with Action RPGs are they just are not any fun for me, and Legend of Zelda is the innovater. Now. I say 90% because I admit that I had a LOT of fun with Zelda II, as it is a truly remarkable game that is an RPG with action elements. When an Action RPG is done with RPG first, action second, I can enjoy it. Star Ocean, Tales of Phantasia, and games of that type are games I have a LOT of fun with. However, when an Action RPG is doen, most of the time, it's Action first, and the actual plot looks ridiculous at times. I was not able to enjoy Ocarina of Time, or Link to the Past, because of the way the story was told. Conversely, I was able to enjoy Star Ocean and ToP because of how the story was featured, with the action parts of the game being something on the side almost, which is how I would make an Action RPG.

 

Obviously, my opinion is not the majority opinion, but it is mine.

 

As far as Wind Waker goes, I didn't play all the way through it, but I LOVE the visual style, but not so much the gameplay. The camera is kind of problematic at times, so that was upsetting. I figure it's a game like a recent Fire Pro, like D or Z. They're great if you like the series. If you don't, there's nothing there that's gonna change your mind.

[iggymcfly 0]

I just want to say that if this list comes out, and Mario Kart 64 isn't represented, I will categorically refuse to give it any credibility.

[Guest JebusNassedar]

I just want to say that if this list comes out, and Mario Kart 64 isn't represented, I will categorically refuse to give it any credibility.

Good for you.

[AndrewTS 0]

Believe me, I understand exactly what you're saying. I wasn't into Zelda much when I was younger, because of the story's rather weak execution.

 

However, these days gameplay matters more to me than story, hence why I'll pick an Adventure game with a "just okay" story over a well-told turn-based RPG.

 

Ocarina currently has the most epic, mature feel out of all the current Zeldas (and over most Adventure games), and the greater role of story in it compared to the other games is why I (and probably many others) prefer it over the rest of the games.

 

Wind Waker seems to have the actual story so sparely told, the dungeons seem less awe-inspiring due to their short length, and the little gripes like the excessive sailing, the Wind Waker itself's relatively small role in the game compared to OOT, ultimately make it less memorable.

 

Plus, the frustration and ultimate triumph of completing the Water Temple? The first time you fight that temple's "sub boss?" I don't really feel WW has anything to compare to that, really.

 

However, considering how much you liked Zelda II, I'm not surprised.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

The overly large amount of sailing and the point towards the end when the game crashes to a halt kept Wind Waker from approaching the goodness of Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time for me. I did almost all the sailing on splitscreen with Mr. Show the second time through during my complete Zelda run.

 

EDIT: WW really could've used another big dungeon or two. I know two were cut out, but the point still stands.

[AndrewTS 0]

The overly large amount of sailing and the point towards the end when the game crashes to a halt kept Wind Waker from approaching the goodness of Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time for me.  I did almost all the sailing on splitscreen with Mr. Show the second time through during my complete Zelda run.

 

EDIT:  WW really could've used another big dungeon or two.  I know two were cut out, but the point still stands.

I've yet to tackle Majora's Mask since I've yet to complete OOT again, but it's sitting in my collection in the meanwhile. I feel I should beat OOT again first, since I've forgotten so much.

 

Until I rented Smash Bros Melee I had forgotten who Sheik really was (go ahead and laugh, but the red eyes threw me ).

 

Majora's Mask I've heard people absolutely love or loathe it completely. Seems that few people feel otherwise. Could you give me a mini-review of it?

[Matt Young 0]

I may have mentioned this before, but while Ocarina is probably my favorite game ever, I loathed Majora's Mask when it was released in 2000. I don't have the cart anymore, sadly, but I do have the game on the Zelda Collector's Edition, and it's one I've been meaning to try again to see if I misjudged it originally.

 

There are, however, a lot of people who like MM more than Ocarina.

[Lightning Flik 0]

BTW, Matt Young has been added to the panel. I'll only accept one more person onto the panel for sure this time.

 

And Andrew, forgetting who Sheik was is terrible. I didn't even play Ocarina more than once cause I never owned a N64, and even I remembered who Sheik was.

[Guest Askewniverse]

I thought WW was good, but not as good as OOT. As others have mentioned, the excessive sailing was a gripe. Also, the last third or so of WW seemed like a chore to get through. Instead of an extra dungeon or two, you had to search for the triforce charts, then use those to find the triforce pieces. The whole triforce finding thing really slowed the game down for me.

[AndrewTS 0]

And Andrew, forgetting who Sheik was is terrible. I didn't even play Ocarina more than once cause I never owned a N64, and even I remembered who Sheik was.

In other words, you probably played the part of the game with that scene and little else? Yeah, I guess it'd be easier to remember one small part if that's your only experience with it as opposed to playing the entire game, and coming back to it 6-7 years later.

 

I remembered nearly every other major plot point besides, and I'd had a hunch who it was back when I originally played it, but I'll admit I have a crappy memory sometimes. It's weird--I remembered how to get the fire arrows without even reading the clue on the memorial, but I forgot something major like that.

 

I wasn't looking for it to be anyone else, though. Just assumed it was separate character.

[Special K 0]

*Sigh* I know I'm going to catch hell for not including Zelda 64 on my list, but I never got to play it. One of the few 'essential' games I've missed.

 

I've got my 30, now I'm ordering them. It's gonn be a weird list.

[AndrewTS 0]

*Sigh* I know I'm going to catch hell for not including Zelda 64 on my list, but I never got to play it. One of the few 'essential' games I've missed.

Not including games you haven't played it better than including games you haven't played.

 

I'm sure people will hate my list, because it's going to be a list of my favorite games IMO, not games I can honestly swear up and down are the best games on the planet. It's also going to be Nintendo-heavy and concentrated on my favorite genres.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Andrew, the once was more "one time all the way through". Not that I hadn't played it more than once.

 

Sorry for the misconception.

[AndrewTS 0]

Andrew, the once was more "one time all the way through". Not that I hadn't played it more than once.

 

Sorry for the misconception.

Ah, my bad.

 

I think it was selective memory. I wanted to be surprised playing through it again so my memory conveniently let that piece of info slip. That's the ticket.

 

It's the only explanation of why I can recall esoteric information at a moment's notice and forget big things I should remember.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

Ok, basic back story is that Link goes off to search for someone missing, presumed to be Navi. While in the Lost Woods, asleep on Epona, Link gets attacked by two sibling fairies and the Skull Kid who take the ocarina and chase off Epona. While chasing after Skull Kid, one of the sibling fairies joins you and soon after(right before?) you get turned into a Deku Scrub, the first of 3 tranformation masks(4 if you complete a certain task latter in the game). Soon after you recover your ocarina when you confront Skull Kid again right before the Moon that SK has summoned crashes into the town you are in. You use your ocarina to go back into the past 3 days before the Moon crashes, with the goal to collect the four masks the fairie tells you about to awaken the Giants to stop the Moon.

 

This is one point where the differences in opinion first start to show up. From this point on, you can't really just run around exploring as much as some may like. Another way of saying this is that there is a sense of urgency that you feel just like Link would. This, coupled with a bit more of a somber mood than the other games, tends to put off some people. You can slow time down, and go back to the first day using your ocarina at any point now, but doing the later strips you of any non-story items like the amount of bombs, arrows, etc, that you have, another complaint that I've heard.

 

Anyway, the game uses the OOT engine, and reuses alot of the side characters from OOT, albeit in different roles. This game however, makes interacting with these characters more of a neccesity in order to get various items, and makes helps make them more than the cutouts they seemed in OOT to the point where you care about saving them. They know the world is doomed, and you see how they react to this knowledge as the Moon approaches. This helps cement the atmosphere and that there is danger about, and the overall "dark" feel to the game.

 

Back to the tranformation masks, you have your basic kid Link, a deku scrub, a goron, and a zora, all which have different abilities and weaknesses and control differently enough to make the changes noticable, but nothing you can't handle. Kid Link plays just like he did in OOT, with the exception of starting with a good shield. Deku link allows you to spit bubbles as projectiles, hop on water a limited number of times, and to launch into the air out of certain bushes and glide for a short time, but can't stand fire. Goron Link is a beefy guy with a 3 chain attack combo, the ability to roll and jumps ramps at high rates of speed, but water's a no-no. Zora Link lets you swim underwater which is quite a blast, gives you an attack that is basically two boomerangs, an electric shield, but gives you hand to hand attacks that aren't that effective. These are all pretty fun to play as, control well and are different enough that you can keep things fresh. Not being able to be the Adult Link from OOT is a issue with some.

 

The music has less callbacks to previous games and has a more somber tone to it that works well with the atmosphere they set up. Overall though, this is one point I give OOT the edge. Sound effects are pretty similar too, with neither game out doing the other. One thing this game has over OOT is a fairie that is alot less interuptive than Navi was, which is quite a treat to the ears.

 

The game does have a bit of a collecter's mentaility in the fact that there are a great deal of masks to find, and inside of every dungeon are a number a stray fairies to find in various hiding spots that give you power ups if you find them all and visit a fairy fountain located close to the dungeon they were found in. Heart pieces are found much the same as in previous games as are many of the classic Zelda items. No real boomerang or longshot have been mentioned as a negative.

 

Pretty much comes down to equal, if more diverse control to OOT's, graphics that are a tad smoother than OOT, music and sound that's maybe just a bit behind OOT, a story and NPC interaction that exceeds the rather generic OOT, a darker mood and atmosphere and a more defined, if shorter quest, with less free exploring time, but a bit more challenge. Oh yeah, no fishing, which gives OOT another point.

[AndrewTS 0]

Okay, thanks. I'd actually started the game twice, but due to the inability to save at anytime, I had to quit the game to go somewhere and never got beyond the first town. I'm aware that you'll have to get back your Ocarina, and learn a song that will allow you to save, but also puts you back at the first day.

 

So, personal gripes already--the save system, and the fact that I can't skip the intro, so I'll have to set aside a free evening and start over *again* from the beginning till I can get my Ocarina back.

 

The concept does still intrigue me, though.

[The Niggardly King 0]

This looks pretty interesting. Suikoden II better make the list though... or else.

[AndrewTS 0]

This looks pretty interesting. Suikoden II better make the list though... or else.

Give me about 80-100 bucks to buy it, try it, and we'll talk.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

I should mention that once you can use a sword, you can temp save at owl statues, which you can also teleport to with an ocarina song.

 

Edit: Suikoden 2 will be on my list.