Reefer Madness

[Guest Vitamin X]

And quite frankly i thought it was just common knowledge.

The only common knowledge around here at the moment is that you're a fucking idiot.

[Ripper 0]

How can you possibly prove that?

 

How can you possibly research how many brain cells are killed while smoking pot? And how much alchohol are we talking. Cause getting drunk off your ass has got to kill more brain cells than weed.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

If you doubt that fact, prove me wrong. show me the research that says it causes less damage than alcohol. cuz the info that says it's worse...is everywhere. And quite frankly i thought it was just common knowledge.

Well, I could point to several instances of chronic alcoholics getting The Shakes in addition to other forms of senile dementia, and have never once seen a medical study of the same thing from a chronic pothead.

 

If it's everywhere, just show one that says "Pot kills more brain cells than alcohol" like you stated.

 

Link

 

Definition

 

The essential feature of alcohol abuse is the maladaptive use of alcohol with recurrent and significant adverse consequences related to its repeated use. Alcoholism is the popular term for two disorders, alcohol abuse and alcohol dependence. The hallmarks of both these disorders involve repeated life problems that can be directly attributed to the use of alcohol. Both these disorders can have serious consequences, affecting an individual's health and personal life, as well as having an impact on society at large.

 

Description

 

The effects of alcoholism are quite far-reaching. Alcohol affects every body system, causing a wide range of health problems. Some such problems include poor nutrition, memory disorders, difficulty with balance and walking, liver disease (including cirrhosis and hepatitis), high blood pressure, muscle weakness (including the heart), heart rhythm disturbances, anemia, clotting disorders, decreased immunity to infections, gastrointestinal inflammation and irritation, acute and chronic problems with the pancreas, low blood sugar, high blood fat content, interference with reproductive fertility, and weakened bones.

 

On a personal level, alcoholism results in marital and other relationship difficulties, depression, unemployment, child abuse, and general family dysfunction.

 

Alcoholism causes or contributes to a variety of severe social problems including homelessness, murder, suicide, injury, and violent crime. Alcohol is a contributing factor in at least 50% of all deaths from motor vehicle accidents. In fact, about 100,000 deaths occur each year due to the effects of alcohol, of which 50% are due to injuries of some sort. According to a recent special report prepared for the U.S. Congress by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, the impact of alcohol on society, including violence, traffic accidents, lost work productivity, and premature death, costs our nation an estimated $185 billion annually. In addition, it is estimated that approximately one in four children (19 million children or 29 percent of children up to 17 years of age) is exposed at some time to familial alcohol abuse, alcohol dependence, or both. Furthermore, it has been estimated that approximately 18 percent of adults experience an episode of alcohol abuse or dependence a some time during their lives.

 

Since we're talking about addicts here..Chronic Potheads/Alkies moreso than the casual social stoner/drinker, we'll keep things on terms of heavy chronic usage.

 

You contend pot is "worse," there's my rebuttal.

 

Now before you blow your load on showing the effects of smoking pot, remember that a person can eat it as well, so go ahead and skip over the common smoking risks, everyone knows those. If you'd like to compare them to cigarettes however, keep in mind pot isn't filtered like tobacco generally is.

[Ripper 0]

I was just about to put that but he posted first.

 

 

...

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I'm not saying "Smoke Pot because it's good for you" or "pot is better than alcohol" either. I'm saying that guy made a backwards and unproveable statement based on anectodotal instances and "common knowledge."

 

Actually fuck that.

 

Pot is better than alcohol.

[Ripper 0]

I've never had to punch a guy that had too much pot in his system. I can say that much. Alcohol on the other hand....

[Carnival 0]

http://www.valdosta.edu/aode/alcoholfacts.htm

 

"My parents smoked pot and nothing happened to them."

This may be true, but the drug used in the 60s is much different that the drug used on the street today. In the 60s, marijuana had a THC (the active ingredient that gets people high) level of 7 percent to 14 percent. The pot on the streets today has a THC level of 14 percent to 27 percent. That's the difference between drinking a six pack of beer and a six pack of whiskey. It is not the same thing.

 

"You can't become addicted to it."

More and more studies are showing that marijuana can be addictive. Again, the pot smoked today is much different from the pot that was studied 20 years ago. New data shows that babies born to mothers who are chronic marijuana smokers go through withdrawal after birth. Many treatment centers around the country are treating patients who have a primary addiction to marijuana. Withdrawal signs show up between 10-15 days after the last use and can include any of the following: sleeplessness, anxiety, nervousness, restlessness, loss of appetite, and cravings to use the drug or other drugs.

 

"Pot is safer than alcohol."

Wrong again. For most people, low risk alcohol use will not cause a person to become impaired. There is no way a person can use marijuana and not become impaired.

 

http://health.yahoo.com/centers/addiction/96407687

 

How is marijuana harmful?

 

Marijuana can be harmful in a number of ways, through both immediate effects and damage to health over time.

 

Marijuana hinders the user's short-term memory (memory for recent events), and he or she may have trouble handling complex tasks. With the use of more potent varieties of marijuana, even simple tasks can be difficult.

 

Because of the drug's effects on perceptions and reaction time, users could be involved in auto crashes. Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

 

Under the influence of marijuana, students may find it hard to study and learn. (14) Young athletes could find their performance is off; timing, movements, and coordination are all affected by THC.

 

Long-term use of marijuana produces changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs.

 

Short-term effects:

 

 

Problems with memory and learning

Distorted perception

Difficulty in thinking and problem solving

Loss of coordination

Increased heart rate

Anxiety

Panic attacks

Daily cough and phlegm

Symptoms of chronic bronchitis

More frequent chest colds

 

Long-term effects:

 

 

Abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke

Impairment of critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning

Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure.

 

http://www.estreet.com/orgs/dsi/Drugfx/Mar...ulorHarmle.html

 

From a health standpoint, scientific studies associate marijuana with

significant damage to the immune system, early-onset cancers of the head,

neck, esophagus, and lungs, bacterial and fungal lung infections, brain

damage, mental illness, behavioral abnormalities, and a myriad of other

physical/psychological problems for users. There are a number of studies

that point to the existence of a fetal marijuana syndrome, similar to fetal

alcohol syndrome. (See Marijuana Research Review from the Northwest Center

for Health and Safety at (360) 263-3964.)

 

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0791.html

 

Is pot more dangerous than alcohol? On an individual level, it depends on many factors, including reasons for use (as part of a healthy celebration, or as an unhealthy coping crutch), family history of alcohol and other drug use (drugs are often more dangerous if one or both parents are/were abusers), and your comfort level in the environment and situation in which drug use occurs.

 

So it's easy to see that as far as long term effects...it depends on use.

 

But in the short term...immediate effects...weed damages your brain more than alcohol.

 

Now where is your proof that alcohol has a worse effect on your brain?

[Ripper 0]

http://www.valdosta.edu/aode/alcoholfacts.htm

 

"My parents smoked pot and nothing happened to them."

This may be true, but the drug used in the 60s is much different that the drug used on the street today. In the 60s, marijuana had a THC (the active ingredient that gets people high) level of 7 percent to 14 percent. The pot on the streets today has a THC level of 14 percent to 27 percent. That's the difference between drinking a six pack of beer and a six pack of whiskey. It is not the same thing.

 

"You can't become addicted to it."

More and more studies are showing that marijuana can be addictive. Again, the pot smoked today is much different from the pot that was studied 20 years ago. New data shows that babies born to mothers who are chronic marijuana smokers go through withdrawal after birth. Many treatment centers around the country are treating patients who have a primary addiction to marijuana. Withdrawal signs show up between 10-15 days after the last use and can include any of the following: sleeplessness, anxiety, nervousness, restlessness, loss of appetite, and cravings to use the drug or other drugs.

 

"Pot is safer than alcohol."

Wrong again. For most people, low risk alcohol use will not cause a person to become impaired. There is no way a person can use marijuana and not become impaired.

 

http://health.yahoo.com/centers/addiction/96407687

 

How is marijuana harmful?

 

Marijuana can be harmful in a number of ways, through both immediate effects and damage to health over time.

 

Marijuana hinders the user's short-term memory (memory for recent events), and he or she may have trouble handling complex tasks. With the use of more potent varieties of marijuana, even simple tasks can be difficult.

 

Because of the drug's effects on perceptions and reaction time, users could be involved in auto crashes. Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

 

Under the influence of marijuana, students may find it hard to study and learn. (14) Young athletes could find their performance is off; timing, movements, and coordination are all affected by THC.

 

Long-term use of marijuana produces changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs.

 

Short-term effects:

 

 

Problems with memory and learning

Distorted perception

Difficulty in thinking and problem solving

Loss of coordination

Increased heart rate

Anxiety

Panic attacks

Daily cough and phlegm

Symptoms of chronic bronchitis

More frequent chest colds

 

Long-term effects:

 

 

Abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke

Impairment of critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning

Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure.

 

http://www.estreet.com/orgs/dsi/Drugfx/Mar...ulorHarmle.html

 

From a health standpoint, scientific studies associate marijuana with

significant damage to the immune system, early-onset cancers of the head,

neck, esophagus, and lungs, bacterial and fungal lung infections, brain

damage, mental illness, behavioral abnormalities, and a myriad of other

physical/psychological problems for users. There are a number of studies

that point to the existence of a fetal marijuana syndrome, similar to fetal

alcohol syndrome. (See Marijuana Research Review from the Northwest Center

for Health and Safety at (360) 263-3964.)

 

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0791.html

 

Is pot more dangerous than alcohol? On an individual level, it depends on many factors, including reasons for use (as part of a healthy celebration, or as an unhealthy coping crutch), family history of alcohol and other drug use (drugs are often more dangerous if one or both parents are/were abusers), and your comfort level in the environment and situation in which drug use occurs.

 

So it's easy to see that as far as long term effects...it depends on use.

 

But in the short term...immediate effects...weed damages your brain more than alcohol.

 

Now where is your proof that alcohol has a worse effect on your brain?

None of that says anything about alcohol killing less brain cells than pot.

 

 

And some of that is just laughable as you can say the exact about alcohol only worse. Especially this one:

 

 

"Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS."

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

 

Because noone has EVER had unsafe sex under the influence of alcohol.

 

 

 

Ripper - knows its easier to put on a condom when high on weed than it is to do so drunk.

[Special K 0]

Alcohol ruins the lives of 7% of the adult population in this country. You can overdose and die of alcohol. Alcohol itself will kill you with long term abuse, THC will not. Alcohol is the 4th leading killer in urban areas.

 

And that 7%'s just the alcoholics, not the people who killed or assaulted someone while drunk, or got arrested drunk driving.

[Carnival 0]

"Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS."

i read that on the page and laughed, i didn't realize i pasted that in there.

 

I think the part about pot users becoming impaired and light alcohol users not becoming impaired. how it's impossible to not become impaired with pot use. Is closely related to the brain. Being impaired goes hand in hand with brain damage. Can you be fucked up on something and not experience damage to your brain?

 

And i'm not saying in the long term pot is worse than alcohol. It's not.

[Special K 0]

disregard

[Ripper 0]

"Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS."

i read that on the page and laughed, i didn't realize i pasted that in there.

 

I think the part about pot users becoming impaired and light alcohol users not becoming impaired. how it's impossible to not become impaired with pot use. Is closely related to the brain. Being impaired goes hand in hand with brain damage. Can you be fucked up on something and not experience damage to your brain?

Well you can't count sipping alcohol with smoking a entire joint. You have to say it is the same as taking one puff.

 

Now if you are comparing being drunk to being high, I think alchohol wins.

[Carnival 0]

Agreed it's a damn near impossible comparison. I've just been told by a doctor that it kills more. I guess I didn't ask him to clarify on the level of usage.

[Jingus 0]

I think the most obvious difference here is that drinking too much alcohol can poison you to death. Smoking too much weed just leads to falling asleep.

 

Also, as someone who's unfortunately done both, driving drunk is a LOT harder than driving stoned. Alcohol impairs your judgement, coordination, vision, reaction time, and fine motor skills much more than THC.

[Carnival 0]

I've never driven drunk, driving stoned wasn't that bad. It was like 3am and there was nothing but cops out. I was scared outta my mind, so i was trying to be as alert as possible. But i did notice that i was WAY slower in reactions.

[Slayer 0]

"Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS."

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

Because noone has EVER had unsafe sex under the influence of alcohol.

Reminds me of the commercial with the older couple looking at a home pregnancy test, but then SWERVE~ that "they're going to be the youngest grandparents on the block" and reveal it's their teen daughter's test, finishing up with some message about cannabis will make you do things you'll regret... as if she's the first teenager ever to get pregnant under any situation

[Special K 0]

I think we need more anti-acid commercials. Those would be even better than the anti-weed commercials.

 

Some guy's naked in the snow swinging around an inflatable seahorse and screaming.

Seeing my friends tweaking out: my anti-drug.

[Slayer 0]

I remember a couple years ago there was a wave of anti-ecstasy commercials, but they disappeared after a while

[Special K 0]

They should have just showed kids gyrating like tools at raves and sucking on pacifiers, intercut with Jeff Hardy's opening.

'Ecstasy: You don't want to look like that, no matter HOW good it makes you feel.'

[Slayer 0]

They should have just showed kids gyrating like tools at raves and sucking on pacifiers, intercut with Jeff Hardy's opening.

'Ecstasy: You don't want to look like that, no matter HOW good it makes you feel.'

 

"Hey kids, don't do X or you'll wind up like me..."

[Guest Vitamin X]

Here's what I was referencing earlier about the UCSD study..

Link

Heavy Marijuana Use Doesn't Damage Brain

 

Analysis of Studies Finds Little Effect From Long-Term Use

 

By Sid  Kirchheimer

WebMD Medical News  Reviewed By Michael  Smith, MD

on Tuesday, July 01, 2003

 

July 1, 2003 -- Long-term and even daily marijuana use doesn't appear to cause permanent brain damage, adding to evidence that it can be a safe and effective treatment for a wide range of diseases, say researchers.

 

The researchers found only a "very small" impairment in memory and learning among long-term marijuana users. Otherwise, scores on thinking tests were similar to those who don't smoke marijuana, according to a new analysis of 15 previous studies.

 

In those studies, some 700 regular marijuana users were compared with 484 non-users on various aspects of brain function -- including reaction time, language and motor skills, reasoning ability, memory, and the ability to learn new information.

 

Surprising Finding

 

"We were somewhat surprised by our finding, especially since there's been a controversy for some years on whether long-term cannabis use causes brain damage," says lead researcher and psychiatrist Igor Grant, MD.

 

"I suppose we expected to see some differences in people who were heavy users, but in fact the differences were very minimal."

 

The marijuana users in those 15 studies -- which lasted between three months to more than 13 years -- had smoked marijuana several times a week or month or daily. Still, researchers say impairments were less than what is typically found from using alcohol or other drugs.

 

"All study participants were adults," says Grant, professor of psychiatry and director of the Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research Center at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine.

 

"However, there might be a different set of circumstances to a 12-year-old whose nervous system is still developing."

 

10 States OK Marijuana Use

 

Grant's analysis, published in the July issue of the Journal of the International Neuropsychological Society, comes as many states consider laws allowing marijuana to be used to treat certain medical conditions. Earlier this year, Maryland became the 10th state to allow marijuana use to relieve pain and other symptoms of AIDS, multiple sclerosis, cancer, glaucoma, and other conditions -- joining Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington.

 

Medicinal marijuana is available by prescription in the Netherlands and a new marijuana drug is expected to be released in Great Britain later this year. In the U.S. and elsewhere, Marinol, a drug that is a synthetic form of marijuana and contains its active ingredient, THC, is available by prescription to treat loss of appetite associated with weight loss in AIDS patients.

 

Grant says he did the analysis to help determine long-term toxicity from long-term and frequent marijuana use. His center is currently conducting 11 studies to determine its safety and efficacy in treating several diseases.

 

"This finding enables us to see a marginal level of safety, if those studies prove that cannabis can be effective," Grant tells WebMD. "If we barely find this effect in long-term heavy users, then we are unlikely to see deleterious side effects in individuals who receive cannabis for a short time in a medical setting, which would be safer than what is practiced by street users."

 

Grant's findings come as no surprise to Tod Mikuriya, MD, former director of non-classified marijuana research for the National Institute of Mental Health Center for Narcotics and Drug Abuse Studies and author of The Marijuana Medical Handbook: A Guide to Therapeutic Use. He is currently president of the California Cannabis Medical Group, which has treated some 20,000 patients with medicinal marijuana and Marinol.

 

'Highly Effective Medicine'

 

"I just re-published a paper of the first survey for marijuana toxicity done in 1863 by the British government in India that was the most exhaustive medical study of its time in regards to possible difficulties and toxicity of cannabis. And it reached the same conclusion as Grant," Mikuriya tells WebMD.

 

"This is merely confirming what was known over 100 years ago, as well as what was learned by various government findings doing similar research -- marijuana is not toxic, but it is a highly effective medicine."

 

In fact, marijuana was available as a medicinal treatment in the U.S. until the 1930s.

 

Lester Grinspoon, MD, a retired Harvard Medical School psychiatrist who studied medicinal marijuana use since the 1960s and wrote two books on the topic, says that while Grant's finding provides more evidence on its safety, "it's nothing that those of us who have been studying this haven't known for a very long time.

 

"Marijuana is a remarkably safe and non-toxic drug that can effectively treat about 30 different conditions," he tells WebMD. "I predict it will become the aspirin of the 21st century, as more people recognize this."

 

SOURCES: The Journal of the International Neuropsychological Society, July 2003. Igor Grant, MD, professor of psychiatry, University of California, San Diego School of Medicine; director, UCSD Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research Center. Tod Mikuriya, MD, president, the California Cannabis Research Medical Group, Oakland; former director of non-classified marijuana research, the National Institute of Mental Health Center for Narcotics and Drug Abuse Studies. Lester Grinspoon, MD, professor emeritus of psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, Boston; author, Marijuana: The Forbidden Medicine and Marihuana Reconsidered.

[Guest Vitamin X]

On a sidenote, I'd like to see a study done on the basis of what caffeine and THC do together, since I find that caffeine counteracts everything THC does. I know a cup or two of coffee will instantly sober me up and get me thinking quicker after smoking bud.

[The Czech Republic 0]

So when is the carnival coming anyway? I'm not just going to stand here and wait.

[Precious Roy 0]

There's no physically addictive properties like nicotine or heroin or coke, but it's absolutely possible to get addicted to pot, same as it's possible to get addicted to anything. It's all about stimulation, and whatever produces it for the user. Pot, booze, sex, exercise, food, partisan bickering, etc.

Hahahahaha

 

My school of thought is that the societal dangers are a direct result of dealers, thugs, and cops, and that the number of potheads post prohibition would remain consistent with the current number.

 

Agreed. The culture of buying/selling/using marijuana, a direct result of the "war" on it, is the most dangerous thing about it. The man-made consequences of getting involved in that world are more harmful than anything smoking the plant can do to you. You smoke a blunt you lose a couple hours of clearheadedness, you get caught buying or carrying that blunt you lose a lot more than that. That's why the smart pot smokers divorce themselves from dealers and having to put themselves out there in a seedy environment and just grow their own stuff for personal consumption. Anyone who's ever known a drug dealer knows that they are by far the shadiest breed of people you'll ever know, you have to be to protect yourself, and all that shadyness can only lead to negative consequences at some point. That's my biggest beef with marijuana in this country, not the usage, but everything else.

 

The "burnout" argument doesn't sway me at all, because 90% of all burnouts will sleep, slack or drink themselves to that state anyway. Some people just lack motivation. Marijuana doesn't make people lazy, it may make it easier to be lazy, but alcohol makes it easier to be reckless and stupid and not everyone who drinks takes that route. And much like other people have said, the people I know who smoke pot on what I consider a regular basis (a couple days a week) run the gamut from successful and hard working to down and out and lazy to everything in between. The bad apples are not indicative of the entire crowd.

 

Which, believe it or not, a lot of people don't KNOW anybody who smokes pot.

 

Nah, everyone knows someone who smokes pot, they just might not know it, because it's so taboo and wrong to talk about it, what with people going to jail for it and all. People who engage in illegal activities, regardless of degrees, tend not to broadcast it to the world. I bet we all know a couple kleptomaniac shoplifters and sexual deviants too, a lot of people do a lot of shit that they don't make public knowledge.

[Carnival 0]

So when is the carnival coming anyway? I'm not just going to stand here and wait.

Funniest thing ever

 

Sorry to keep you waiting. I'll give you the heads up when it gets around the Chicago area.

[The Czech Republic 0]

So when is the carnival coming anyway? I'm not just going to stand here and wait.

Funniest thing ever

 

Sorry to keep you waiting. I'll give you the heads up when it gets around the Chicago area.

No, that's okay

[Carnival 0]

So when is the carnival coming anyway? I'm not just going to stand here and wait.

Funniest thing ever

 

Sorry to keep you waiting. I'll give you the heads up when it gets around the Chicago area.

No, that's okay

well then forget about seeing your soul-mate again...

 

BOZO!!??!???!!

[I like Forums 0]

To add to what Vitamin X was saying about caffiene, I find that munching out totally sobres you up... but also makes you really tired.

[Precious Roy 0]

I should add that, from the tone of his posts, MikeSC seems like the kind of guy who would narc on someone, which is probably why he doesn't "KNOW" anyone who smokes the stuff. I certainly wouldn't tell him if he was my co-worker or something.

[Carnival 0]

I should add that, from the tone of his posts, MikeSC seems like the kind of guy who would narc on someone, which is probably why he doesn't "KNOW" anyone who smokes the stuff. I certainly wouldn't tell him if he was my co-worker or something.

he likes to refer to everyone as "burnouts" thats for sure.

 

I don't know any "burnout" from pot alone. I know a pothead...he talks slower than most people, but he's not stupid.