After last night, can we finally end the myth

[iggymcfly 0]

HHH did a lot for Benoit, but he still didn't put him over anywhere near as well as he did Batista. I mean he's done pretty much everything he could possibly do to put the guy over. Let's recap.

 

Feud between the two of them starts when Batista realizes that HHH is trying to set him up, turns on him, and Batista bombs him in the middle of the ring.

 

At Wrestlemania, Batista pins him clean in the middle of the ring.

 

At Backlash, Batista pins HHH again.

 

At Vengeance, Batista faces HHH in his match, Hell in a Cell, kicks out of a Pedigree, kicks out of a sledgehammer shot, and then doesn't even need to use a weapon as he pins HHH clean with his finisher to end the feud.

 

Basically, Batista has buried HHH with this feud. I challenge anyone on this board to find an instance in the last ten years of an established star putting over a new talent so thoroughly.

[Jericholic82 0]

I have to agree, though I think he did do a good job with Benoit as he only got like 1 win in a singles match vs him.

 

Batista got three clean wins on ppv (save kinda the visual pinfall with the ref down at backlash), disocounting a tag match loss last week

 

Pretty good I'd say, a new star is made

 

and HHH has not lost any heat from it either.

 

You see jobs won't always bury a guy (unless they want to bury him)

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

"New talent" is a misnomer considering Batista has been around in the WWE for around 2 years. Anyway, Foley/HHH.

[Guest jumpingbombangel]

"New talent" is a misnomer considering Batista has been around in the WWE for around 2 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Damn, you said it before I could. Since when is Batista "new" talent?

[Jericholic82 0]

I believe Iggy meant , new to the main event level. HHH has helped to elevate Batista to that top star level and made him look legit as well.

[iggymcfly 0]

Well yeah, I obviously didn't mean he was debuting or anything. 2 years is still a relatively short time to go from starting off on television to being put over strong as a World champion.

[RedJed 0]

While I agree that HHH has really put over Batista with their three big matches, there was some instances in the storylines that Batista, whether it is HHH's influence or not, Batista looked like a shitty ass babyface who, for being world champion, was not being portrayed effectively as such. But with that said, when it comes down to it, HHH did put him over 3 freaking times clean (well Backlash could maybe be disputed there to a degree) which is how you really should do it to really build up a new long term champion. So I definately give him credit, now lets just hope another strong babyface doesnt have to pay for it - ie Cena. I dont think HHH is, by any means, buried. He needs to realize he's like Flair in that he can lose and lose and lose and will still be ok.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Batista is no threat to HHH's top spot, so he has no problems putting him over. Especially if Batista gets shipped off to SD, since there will be no reminder for the fans that HHH lost to the guy 3 straight times.

 

I'm holding off on the "big ups, Trips!" until seeing how Cena is handled.

[Jericholic82 0]

While I agree that HHH has really put over Batista with their three big matches, there was some instances in the storylines that Batista, whether it is HHH's influence or not, Batista looked like a shitty ass babyface who, for being world champion, was not being portrayed effectively as such. But with that said, when it comes down to it, HHH did put him over 3 freaking times clean (well Backlash could maybe be disputed there to a degree) which is how you really should do it to really build up a new long term champion. So I definately give him credit, now lets just hope another strong babyface doesnt have to pay for it - ie Cena. I dont think HHH is, by any means, buried. He needs to realize he's like Flair in that he can lose and lose and lose and will still be ok.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea he has been pushed at the top for so long, he can't be buried with clean losses. Hell he jobbed to the brooklyn brawler in 2000 and didn't miss a step so I don't think this will hurt him.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Only because every time he loses, he either dismisses it as "nothing" or he gets the job back. The only way HHH would have put Batista over is if he is no longer a title contender for a while, which is not going to happen.

[SuperJerk 0]

Let's see...

 

Put over:

Shelton Benjamin

Chris Benoit

Batista

Goldberg

 

Wouldn't put over:

RVD

Booker T

Kane

Randy Orton

Chris Jericho

Eugene

 

Although HHH will put some guys over, please note that one list still is a little longer than the other...

Edited June 27, 2005 by RobotJerk

[Jericholic82 0]

Let's see...

 

Put over:

Shelton Benjamin

Chris Benoit

Batista

Goldberg

 

Wouldn't put over:

RVD

Booker T

Kane

Randy Orton

Chris Jericho

Eugene

 

Although HHH will put some guys over, please note that one list still is a little longer than the other...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea He really should have jobbed to eugene cmon I cant belive someone would argue that.

 

But you make a good point I suppose.

 

Hey he aint the only guy who refused jobs, Hogan was a far worse offender IMO.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Let's see...

 

Put over:

Shelton Benjamin

Chris Benoit

Batista

Goldberg

 

Wouldn't put over:

RVD

Booker T

Kane

Randy Orton

Chris Jericho

Eugene

 

Although HHH will put some guys over, please note that one list still is a little longer than the other...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Don't be stupid. Shelton? You mean when HHH dismissed the loss to Shelton and then refused to go in the ring with him again, saying he wasn't worth it? Yep good example. Chris Benoit? Oh yeah MIDCARD CHAMPION definitely rules. Batista is fine, but a bit weaker than before Mania, and Goldberg? You mean when HHH beat Goldberg at Armageddon and effectively ended his title reign?

[Black Lushus 0]

did Hogan ever get his job back from the Warrior? in WCW perhaps?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

did Hogan ever get his job back from the Warrior?  in WCW perhaps?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes.

[The Decemberists 0]

Losing isn't the same as 'putting over'. Despite Benoit last year and Dave this year being the WHC and therefore the theoretical 'top guy' Trips has still dominated every single episode of Raw, and despite losing the matches kicked Dave's ass in every single Raw encounter between them.

 

It's things like having HHH open the first Raw after Mania and having the new champ not make an appearance till right at the end that suggests that HHH hasn't been quite as generous as some might think.

[The Decemberists 0]

Quick addition to back up my losing to someone doesn't mean you've put them over -

 

Perhaps the most famous example of putting someone over is Flair getting Sting over as a top guy at the first Clash. Sting did not beat Flair in that match, but the way the match went, with Sting dominating etc put Sting over as a credible top guy.

 

Likewise, Hogan lost several times to Kidman in WCW, but because Hogan dominated the matches and Kidman got lucky pins it meant nothing.

[Guest Brian]

The act of Triple H putting someone over would mean that someone would be of equal importance or stature on the show to him.

[cabbageboy 0]

HHH puts people over when he absolutely has to. I mean if he said to Benoit "Fuck you, I am not jobbing to you" the whole roster would have revolted since Benoit is well respected. Benoit is also no serious threat to be a consisten main eventer.

 

I'm not going to hold the Orton thing so much against HHH since Orton essentially tanked as a face. I mean yeah HHH had a bit to do with it but Orton is another case of giving a guy a belt way too fast and the fans not really accepting it.

 

HHH never jobbing to Jericho is one thing but I'm so used to it by this point that I don't care a whole lot. Also at this point the WWF was going strong and it wasn't as odd.

 

The 3 biggest egregious sins is the holy trinity of burial: RVD, Kane, and Booker T. Kane is the least of these but take into consideration that he humiliated Kane by calling him a necrophiliac, took his mask, etc. And Kane NEVER got a win? It's the least however because Kane was never going to be a perennial main eventer, but maybe a guy to throw in a main here and there.

 

RVD is in my view the biggest example. After SS 02 Van Dam was once again on a roll, beating Benoit, unifying the IC title with the hardcore and Euro, he was bad ass. Then of course came the disgusting HHH/RVD match with the Flair heel turn, a match that still has negative repercussions to this day. From there it was the Elimination Chamber, RVD jobs. Then RVD is made to be a bitch in the HHH/Michaels crap despite being more over than either. In fact RVD was perhaps the most over guy in the company from July 2001-Sept. 2002, but this "feud" with HHH started the slow killing of his heat.

 

Booker T is another feud that sickened me, since HHH did all this racist crap to Booker and never had to pay for it, never lost the title to him, etc. Just jobbing to him at WM or ONCE would have made this less pathetic.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Sadly I've been trained as a fan to expect HHH as champ. A couple weeks ago I couldn't remember who it was and assumed it was HHH. I was suprised that Batista was the champ.

[Silence 0]

Let's see...

 

Put over:

Shelton Benjamin

Chris Benoit

Batista

Goldberg

 

Wouldn't put over:

RVD

Booker T

Kane

Randy Orton

Chris Jericho

Eugene

 

Although HHH will put some guys over, please note that one list still is a little longer than the other...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly. I'm not going to "give HHH some props", yet, until he puts over more significant talent and doesn't bury them in promos by doing the whole "You got lucky for one night-uhhhhh. Let's see if you can beat me again-uhhhhh at the next PPV-uhhhh" or "I proved to the world-uhhhhh that you're not in my league-uhhhhh" bullshit.

 

As for Benjamin, his wins over HHH came off as flukey, and when HHH finally did beat him, the announcers never brought up the fact that HHH hadn't been able to beat Benjamin every time they wrestled each other, which hurt Benjamin's credibility somewhat. Not as much as last week's Raw though, when he suddenly lost the Intercontinental title to the new Raw acquisition, Carlito. Benjamin definitely needs some re-building now.

 

Benoit didn't have enough spotlight on him last year as the World Heavyweight Champion. HHH was still the focus of Raw, and Benoit wasn't even on one of the Raws last year while he was Champion. Either that, or he defended the title against Kane or Rob Conway (no offense to him, since he's better than Grenier, but he wasn't built up as a legit title contender since he's been typecasted as a tag-team mid-carder for a while).

 

As others have said, Batista looked like a fool in the weeks leading up to his Vengeance match against HHH because WWE had Ric Flair low-blow him from behind after convincing Batista that he "thanked him" for helping him take out Edge, Christian, and Tomko in the previous week on Raw. Not only that, but I'm sure everyone remembers when Batista FINALLY showed up on one of the Raws this year almost 5 minutes before the show ended to beat the hell out of HHH. HHH did, however, lose to Batista on 3 PPV's in a row, but it could have been more effective if Batista had more focus on him as Champion, I think.

 

I know everyone's beaten me to all of these statements above, but it obviously goes to show that HHH putting someone over is more than just him losing to them on PPV.

[Jericholic82 0]

HHH is a heel, he is supposed to make excuses and say the other guy was lucky. JBL does that quite often doesn't he? He really can't win in your eyes then can he?

 

as for the kane feud, it was Vinces idea to do the katie vick thing wasnt it? so you cant really blame HHH, save for him not wanting to job at no mercy 02 (if you believe the rumors)

 

Besides if every guy the Net liked got put over all them time it would get real boring wouldn't it? who would job then?

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Although HHH will put some guys over, please note that one list still is a little longer than the other...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because you REALLY wanted Orton and Eugene in the main event?

[Jericholic82 0]

Although HHH will put some guys over, please note that one list still is a little longer than the other...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because you REALLY wanted Orton and Eugene in the main event?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my point exactly .

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

HHH is a heel, he is supposed to make excuses and say the other guy was lucky. JBL does that quite often doesn't he? He really can't win in your eyes then can he?

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The difference is he says that then PROCEEDS to show why it was just luck, whether by getting the job back/title back or buries them outright.

[Silence 0]

HHH is a heel, he is supposed to make excuses and say the other guy was lucky. JBL does that quite often doesn't he? He really can't win in your eyes then can he?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know he's a heel. That doesn't mean he should cut another long-winded, redundant promo while the champion doesn't even get to cut a promo after winning the belt, or even have a match, or the champion cleaning up dog shit while HHH and Stephanie are the ones that have more heat between them. It also doesn't mean HHH should keep getting title shots, even though he's lost twice in a row in Championship matches, or him winning the title back after losing it on the previous PPV, of course.

 

BTW, what sense does it make having Benoit and Batista look like dumbasses by falling for every one of HHH's tricks?

[AndrewTS 0]

Batista is going to Smackdown, so it's moot.

 

And who is going to remain *the* guy on Raw? Hmmm.

[Silence 0]

And who is going to remain *the* guy on Raw?  Hmmm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One of the wrestlers with 3 letters in his name.

[iggymcfly 0]

Batista is going to Smackdown, so it's moot.

 

And who is going to remain *the* guy on Raw?  Hmmm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cena?

[Guest Coffey]

I don't think that Triple H is the problem with Batista. Bastista is the problem with Batista. Moreso WWE molding Batista into what they want him to be instead of him just being himself.

 

Heading into the Royal Rumble, Batista was a favorite. It was either going to be him or Cena winning it. We all knew it. Of course, we all figured that Batista would win the Royal Rumble over Cena simple because Raw is the "A" show. Thus, he'd have the final match at Wrestlemania.

 

So, the Rumble goes and Batista wins it. The ending to the Rumble was botched but it came out OK as WWE was able to guage the crowd between Cena and Batista to a degree.

 

Then, on the upcoming Raw, "Big Dave" was super over. He was getting crazy pops and just teasing that he might turn on Triple H and Evolution. Triple H was making it out like he was above Batista but Batista kept staying one step ahead of Hunter. He was outsmarting "The Game."

 

Batista's charm was that he wasn't so in-your-face. He was a quiet cool. He dressed like he was better than everyone else. He acted like he was better than everyone else. In the ring, he was a beast. Remember the episode of Raw where they each had to wrestle matches with the fastest time coming out last in the Elimination Chamber? Batista won his match in a squash...but the whole time, he was still playing it off like he was cool.

 

Finally, Batista Powerbombed Triple H through a table on Raw and said that he wasn't going to Smackdown. The crowd popped. It was, in my opinion, his greatest moment to date. Then thirty seconds later, he killed it with his promo to Triple H's unconscience body. He could've just made his point and went on...but he said too many words. "I'm coming for you." would've worked. Instead, he's like "I'm staying right here on Raw...and at Wrestlemania, I'm coming for you and I'm taking your Worlds Heavyweight Title." It still got the point across but it went against what Batista was about. Yeah, he snaps in the ring...but he should've went back to the quiet cool after the Bomb.

 

Then WWE tries to make Batista a comedic babyface like they do with everybody. The last thing that Batista should've been was that. He didn't need a gimmick change. He was doing Taxi Driver commercials and shit. It was silly.

 

Wrestlemania comes and people still care. Batista wins and they're happy. Then Batista randomly has to cut promos with the title. It's still all about Triple H. We knew that Triple H would get his rematch...but the way it was all handled was silly. Especially Triple H getting a title shot after being eliminated from the Gold Rush tournament.

 

I remember I was watching the episode of Raw from when they were in England. Batista came out at the beginning of the show and he seemed like he was either drugged or drunk. I looked at my friend that was over watching the show with me and I said "that's it for Batista." He was out there talking for like ten minutes and slurring all of his words. It was terrible to watch.

 

I can point out a few things that have all hurt Batista, and none of them are Triple H related:

• Changing his music for no reason. Now it's just another generic rock song. Before, it started out crazy, like Batista in the ring, then it mellowed out, like the "cool" Batista out of the ring. It fit his character.

• Having to talk for more than thirty seconds. I remember when Austin was still around and Batista was cutting some decent promos. Of course they were serious promos. He wasn't trying to get a pop or laughs. He just got to the point and they worked.

• The thumbs down taunt. It's silly. So is his Ultimate Warrior rope shake like he's "Hulking Up." He never needed that shit before, so why'd he start doing it?

• Doing more "guns" during his entrance. I used to mark for them because they were so subtle. Now they're extravagant complete with pyro and all this other sillyness.

• His moveset has been toned down to a degree. At one time, his Clothesline, Powerbomb and Spinebuster were all established. Now, it's all transistion moves until his can hit the Powerbomb. He's back to being a one-trick pony complete with an OVW Hoss Powerbomb finisher.

I think him going to Smackdown could both benefit him and hurt him. It'd benefit him because he'd get away from Hunter, even though he decisively won the feud. Triple H will stay where he's at and still be portrayed as a main eventer, Bastista, on the other hand, will basically have to start over like Cena is doing on Raw. He'll have to re-establish himself with the Smackdown crowds and shit. He'll have new talent to work with but he has new talent to work with on Raw...since he's really only wrestled Triple H.

 

However, going to Smackdown, and getting a fresh start, might be what Batista needs. He could go back to being the quiet cool except now he has three decisive PPV victories over the ten-time champion, HHH.

 

We'll see how it all pans out. I agree that Triple H did everything that he could to put Batista over on camera. It's just the circumstances surrounding all of the non-matches that are starting to catch up to Batista.

 

My friends and I used to be complete Batista marks. Then they changed his music and we were like "what?" Then they singled out his subtle guns during his entrance and we were like "what?" He started talking more and all the metrosexual comedic inuendos became extravagant and suddenly everyone was aboard the bandwagon.

 

Now, he's won the fued, and for some reason, he seems bland. I didn't even want to see the rematch, but instead we got three consecutive PPV main events with the same two wrestlers. It was boring the first time...even though I wanted to see Batista win. He shouldn't be wresting twenty minute PPV main events. He should be winning quick or not winning.

 

He just doesn't seem unique anymore because WWE has taken all the little things about him that seemed to stand out and purposefully made them stand out. It doesn't work like that. All the little things compounded to be interesting. Now, they just took a couple of them and pretty much made them what Batista was about. They gave him comedic skits. They gave him pyro and generic rock music. They gave him a couple shitty taunts. He even had some new shitty ring attire. It just all didn't seem like Batista anymore.

 

That's the best way that I can explain it. Batista was subtle in his delivery of everything...now he's not. It's not Triple H's fault but Batista certainly isn't as entertaining to me as he once was.

 

One of the wrestlers with 3 letters in his name.

 

CCC? HBK? Y2J?

 

Ha!