Smackdown plans for Summerslam

[Exslade ZX 0]

If they wanted to they could still go with Hassan/Batista, just have it noted on Smackdown that Hassan has filed a lawsuit against Teddy Long and Smackdown for the Undertaker's actions, which forces Taker to get his title shot on Smackdown and Hassan is given a title shot to prevent a lawsuit. Hassan doesn't even have to be on camera for any of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea but people are gonna hate..you know, a Summerslam main event with no build up whatsoever.

 

Seriously..what kind of vid package is that gonna have..with no interaction between Hassan/Batista at all?

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Kahran Rasmus....uh...RVD is injury prone? He can't work? You come off kind of silly here.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Maybe they could use a sock puppet for Hassan.

[gWIL 0]

Or Davari.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

There's a difference?

[Guest MikeSC]

Oh God, I know...hell I got into it big time with Kahran and MikeSC in the RVD thread in regards to "Why isn't RVD a main event caliber guy when fucking BRADSHAW is?"

JBL, regularly, has better matches than RVD does. I can't name the last time they were on the same show where RVD was in the better match.

There's a really weird and disturbing trend going on here.  It seems like they are now trying to push people with little rhyme or reason.  Say what you want about RVD, but at least his 2001 push was justified by 1.  Crowd response and 2.  Entertaining hardcore matches.  Oh and he won a lot.

"Entertaining"? His matches with Hardy were a joke. Jericho, admittedly, did an admirable carry job. But RVD did not deserve a ME push. He still doesn't.

 

Let's go down the list:

Ring work --- JBL has had better matches for a while now.

Mic work --- um, is this even up for debate?

 

RVD has a rabid fanbase --- the same fanbase that also went nuts for acts like Public Enemy and Al Snow & Head (neither of which would be profitable on a large stage for any length of time).

Why was JBL pushed storywise to begin with?  Because he threatened a few illegal Mexicans?  Why is Jericho in a title match?  He hasn't won a match in like 3 years and was just jobbed out of the IC title scene post WM.

And why would RVD be in there now? He just finished a makeshift tag title reign before his injury.

 

And WHY JBL was initially pushed is immaterial. He DELIVERED when the opportunity was presented and has become one of the most entertaining guys on SD. His matches with Eddy were excellent. His matches at Survivor Series, Armageddon, and Royal Rumble were quite good. He dragged Cena to a watchable match at Judgment Day.

This is the problem with having idiot soap opera writers, they have no concept that "He who gets a title push has to WIN enough to deserve said push."  Why were they going to push Hassan?  He hadn't done shit to deserve a #1 contender match, and in fact had just been squashed by Cena before leaving Raw.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which was an insanely stupid move on the WWE's part.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Kahran Rasmus....uh...RVD is injury prone?  He can't work?  You come off kind of silly here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Since 2000, he's missed close to two years of ring time. I'd consider that injury-prone, especially since he spends half the time in tag teams.

 

As far as his wrestling ability goes, he has his 3 or 4 trademark moves and that's it. He can't matwrestle, but I'm not even asking that. My main problem is that his longterm selling is atrocious and he can't tell a story in the ring, at all. About the only match RVD has had since I've been paying attention to him (1997) that shows any sort of storytelling and psychology is his match with Eddy Guerrero at Judgment Day 2002. One match in nine years, and it was over three years ago. We've seen it over and over again where guys like Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, Steve Austin & HHH try to lead him through an actual match and he just can't/isn't willing to do it. Outside of his few moves, he's got nothing. In 2001 he was over enough that they could push him and the crowd wouldn't notice his shortcomings (at least for awhile), but it is too late for that. He would be completely exposed if they try pushing him now. I shudder to think of how bad RVD/Carlito will be. Masters/Big Show will probably be better. At least Show knows what he's doing somewhat.

[cabbageboy 0]

Kahran, what the fuck is up with this JBL shit you keep spouting? I'm not saying the guy is totally worthless, but he's damn near it. Guys like Eddie and Angle literally have to slow it to a crawl for JBL, and yet you argue that they did this with RVD? RVD CAN wrestle, he CAN talk if given the opportunity and direction, and there is infinitely more evidence to support those claims than anything pro JBL (aside from some of his promos.

 

Second, RVD injury prone? How? He got hurt for a couple months in 2000, and he's been hurt most of this year. In a 15 year career those are really the only times he's been out of action for any length of time.

 

It's kind of funny, but even Kahran admits RVD is over. And really isn't being over the main reason to push someone? They've been trying to push rookies and veteran bums who aren't over far too long, why not push someone that actually is over?

 

Let's face it, no one ever said "Gee, I wish they would push Bradshaw."

[Guest JMA]

JBL certainly ISN'T a good wrestler. Period. He's a standard brawler who says controversial things and blades a lot to get heat. He has a great character and is good on the mic, but that's literally all he has going for him. He wasn't over enough to warrant his nearly year-long reign and he didn't draw well with it.

 

What they need to do is move JBL out of the main event ASAP. They should give him the U.S. title and let him run with that (he might draw with that belt). Having him still been a main eventer when Brock returns will make Smackdown look weak.

 

The way to end his feud with Batista is to have him lose to Batista at the big event (in a ten minute match--this will put Batista over as a wrecking machine), and then, on the very next Smackdown, he wins the U.S. title. This way Batista gets put over strong in preparation for Lesnar, JBL is out of the main event scene, and WWE has a credible U.S. champion.

[Guest MikeSC]

Kahran, what the fuck is up with this JBL shit you keep spouting?  I'm not saying the guy is totally worthless, but he's damn near it.  Guys like Eddie and Angle literally have to slow it to a crawl for JBL, and yet you argue that they did this with RVD?

And I'm arguing that it is not the case. JBL's matches with Angle and Eddy were better than RVD's matches with them.

RVD CAN wrestle, he CAN talk if given the opportunity and direction, and there is infinitely more evidence to support those claims than anything pro JBL (aside from some of his promos.

RVD HAS been given the chance to do both and tanked. His promo at ONS was bad enough that I'd never put a live mic in his hand again.

Second, RVD injury prone?  How?  He got hurt for a couple months in 2000, and he's been hurt most of this year.  In a 15 year career those are really the only times he's been out of action for any length of time.

Which means they're happening with frequency now, which is an issue.

It's kind of funny, but even Kahran admits RVD is over.  And really isn't being over the main reason to push someone?

Would you support Hulk Hogan getting another World Title shot on a PPV?

 

He's really, really over.

 

Piper gets big pops in his rare appearances. Would you want him to be in the ME?

They've been trying to push rookies and veteran bums who aren't over far too long, why not push someone that actually is over?

They're pushing JBL and he is over. WWE makes lots of dumb choices --- JBL has been a gem.

Let's face it, no one ever said "Gee, I wish they would push Bradshaw."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they depushed him, I definitely would.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

It's kind of funny, but even Kahran admits RVD is over. And really isn't being over the main reason to push someone? They've been trying to push rookies and veteran bums who aren't over far too long, why not push someone that actually is over?

 

No, you also need credibility and RVD doesn't have it. In 2001, he had it, but the novelty has worn off for those who only heard about him in ECW and were watching him for the first time then, and because he's been jobbed out. Jericho is a better wrestler and more consistantly over performer than RVD, and I don't buy him as a legit threat anymore either. They had their shot in 2001 with RVD, and although I don't think it would have lasted, they could have gotten something out of a main event run. At this point in time he's nothing, and I really don't think it is worth building him up again.

 

JBL certainly ISN'T a good wrestler. Period. He's a standard brawler who says controversial things and blades a lot to get heat. He has a great character and is good on the mic, but that's literally all he has going for him. He wasn't over enough to warrant his nearly year-long reign and he didn't draw well with it.

 

I would say he is average to a little above-average. When booked properly and with good workers he can have good matches. He is bad enough though to have some real stinkers sometimes, and most of his matches are in the decent range. Bad workers tend to have bad matches most of the time, like Carlito. JBL doesn't. He's also not Chris Benoit or Shawn Michaels.

 

What they need to do is move JBL out of the main event ASAP. They should give him the U.S. title and let him run with that (he might draw with that belt). Having him still been a main eventer when Brock returns will make Smackdown look weak.

 

They were going to before the Hassan thing blew up their faces. He was scheduled to feud with Benoit over the US Title according to most reports. The Hassan thing affected more than just his match at GAB. It is probably why the PPV was such a mess from a booking standpoint. Taker won, which means that if they want to continue Orton/Taker or just don't want face/face at Summerslam that they need JBL to be involved with the World Title. Since JBL was now out of the Benoit feud, there was no reason to burden him with the US Title, so Orlando retained. Because Orlando retained and Batista didn't win clean, they needed a big face title match win which means MNM jobs. The Hassan thing screwed up a lot.

[Guest JMA]

I myself am wondering what the hell the Smackdown undercard is going to be. There is no point to continuing Guerrero/Mysterio at this point, Benoit isn't U.S. champion and its doubtful they know what to do with the likes of Jordan, Christian, Regal, and Booker at his point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm unclear of what Eddie will be doing now that Rey has beaten him so many times. I don't think it would work to put him in the main event again after he's lost so much to Mysterio. They could have him feud with Batista down the line, but he'd have to be built back up for that to work.

 

As for Rey, I suppose they could always put him in a feud with JBL, but I'd hold that off for a while. I want to see JBL win the U.S. title and feud with Jordan for a few months. Plus, this will leave an opening for Val to come to Smackdown and be JBL's Chief of Staff.

[Guest JMA]

I mean, you know what else they did? They jobbed out MNM and Benoit. For what? This is a company full of stupid decision makers and they deserve whatever they get, especially if they know the consequences that come with som decisions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know that I was pissed when I heard that they jobbed out MNM. What was their logic behind giving Animal (way past his prime) and Hidenreich (god-awful in the ring and on the mic) the tag titles? MNM is the most entertaining thing on Smackdown, and yet they give the titles to a patchwork team?

 

WWE needs to realize that NO ONE fucking likes Heidenreich. Why is he even still employed?

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Benoit Vs. RVD (SummerSlam 2002) > JBL Vs. Benoit future matchups

 

And it wasn't even a tremendous match. RVD is just more fun to watch, more entertaining, and a better bumper.

 

RVD's had two legit injuries in his career and that's it.

 

Two years of ring time? Uh...less than that, but that doesn't mean he's injury prone. It means he was completely healthy 'til the TV Title reign injury of 2000, and healthy until the one in 2004. People get hurt. RVD gets hurt a lot less than most athletes.

 

JBL, on the other hand, fucking sucks, and will once again bring the ZzzzzZzzzzs to a title match at SummerSlam.

[Guest JMA]

One thing that I hope happens once Brock returns (and wins the title) is that he starts a feud with Benoit. We never really had a satisfying end to the Lesnar-Benoit feud.

[SuperJerk 0]

Which was an insanely stupid move on the WWE's part.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Imagine how much time we'd save if there was a button on our keyboards that said that.

[Dangerous A 0]

I'd actually be a smidge interested in an Elimination Chamber match with Batista/JBL/Taker/Orton/Benoit/perhaps Christian.

 

Problem is HHH won't let the Chamber (or HIAC) gimmick on SD because he knows those 2 cage matches are draws. Also, it seems HHH HAS to be in a Chamber or HIAC match if one is to take place.

[iggymcfly 0]

RVD's matches with Guerrero, his match with Austin, his matches with Angle, his match with Jeff Hardy, his matches with Undertaker, and his matches with Brock were all better than anything JBL's done in his career. Period.

 

Furthermore, he may not get as much heat as JBL on the mic, but he has a better character, and his promos operate on a higher level than JBL's do. When JBL's on the mic, he might as well just be screaming "I'M A STUPID HEEL! HATE ME!". Honestly, subtlety's a foreign concept to him. He's basically like La Resistance in that he does everything possible to get cheap heat, but there's nothing intelligent about his character whatsoever.

 

I didn't see ONS, but I've seen RVD cut good promos in the past (see the tremendous promo against Jericho in December 2001), and the promo he cut on Carlito on Raw was pretty damn good. He's basically angry at the way he's been held down, and he knows he has the potential to be better, and he's ready to stop taking shit, and do whatever it takes to move up.

 

There are layers to it, and it is much more complex and interesting than the crap JBL spews. When JBL's on the mic in a red, white, and blue clown suit, rambling about nothing, I don't think "that's funny". I don't think "boy I'd like to see Batista beat him". I think "what, does the WWE think I'm five years old? Why would I possibly want to see this? I guess I won't watch Smackdown for another month."

[SuperJerk 0]

I'd actually be a smidge interested in an Elimination Chamber match with Batista/JBL/Taker/Orton/Benoit/perhaps Christian.

 

Problem is HHH won't let the Chamber (or HIAC) gimmick on SD because he knows those 2 cage matches are draws. Also, it seems HHH HAS to be in a Chamber or HIAC match if one is to take place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I couldn't see Undertaker in an elimination chamber match, because it would require him to be pinned clean.

[Dangerous A 0]

Or he could just brawl his way out of the match like he did with Hassan on SD. (except of course they weren't inside a cage for that)

[SuperJerk 0]

Exactly. You can't be counted out or disqualified, so there'd be no way to protect him.

[Angle-plex 0]

JBL, to me, reeks of midcard. He has certainly gotten better since last year, but he's kind of like Jeff Jarrett - a somewhat talented performer who isn't talented enough nor enough of a draw to be World Champion.

 

Most of Bradshaw's PPV matches were gimmick matches (even making a "barbwire" cage match), and that was to cover up that the fact that he really isn't very good. His non-gimmick title defenses (vs Undertaker, vs Booker) SUCKED and JBL brought nothing to the table in either match. None of his PPV matches stand up against the other guys in the main events.

 

He's also never made me want to buy a PPV because of him. Nobody in history has ever said they wanted to buy a ticket to [wrestling event] so that they could see the Bradshaw match on the card. His mic work is basic heel stuff. His in-ring work is ok, but he lacks pacing, story-telling ability, and the ability to covey emotion to suck the audience into the match.

 

RVD was just discussed in another thread.

[Guest MikeSC]

RVD's matches with Guerrero, his match with Austin, his matches with Angle, his match with Jeff Hardy, his matches with Undertaker, and his matches with Brock were all better than anything JBL's done in his career. Period.

That, clearly, has no relation to reality. JBL is as underrated as RVD is overrated.

Furthermore, he may not get as much heat as JBL on the mic, but he has a better character, and his promos operate on a higher level than JBL's do.

Umm, WHAT?

 

What promos of RVD's don't just bore the snot out of people?

When JBL's on the mic, he might as well just be screaming "I'M A STUPID HEEL! HATE ME!". Honestly, subtlety's a foreign concept to him. He's basically like La Resistance in that he does everything possible to get cheap heat, but there's nothing intelligent about his character whatsoever.

 

I didn't see ONS, but I've seen RVD cut good promos in the past (see the tremendous promo against Jericho in December 2001)

Having seen that promo, I cannot claim to have a firm grasp on what constitutes quality to you.

and the promo he cut on Carlito on Raw was pretty damn good. He's basically angry at the way he's been held down, and he knows he has the potential to be better, and he's ready to stop taking shit, and do whatever it takes to move up.

 

There are layers to it, and it is much more complex and interesting than the crap JBL spews. When JBL's on the mic in a red, white, and blue clown suit, rambling about nothing, I don't think "that's funny". I don't think "boy I'd like to see Batista beat him". I think "what, does the WWE think I'm five years old? Why would I possibly want to see this? I guess I won't watch Smackdown for another month."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then don't.

 

If RVD got the RAW World Title, I wouldn't watch RAW.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

RVD's matches with Guerrero, his match with Austin, his matches with Angle, his match with Jeff Hardy, his matches with Undertaker, and his matches with Brock were all better than anything JBL's done in his career. Period.

 

Furthermore, he may not get as much heat as JBL on the mic, but he has a better character, and his promos operate on a higher level than JBL's do. When JBL's on the mic, he might as well just be screaming "I'M A STUPID HEEL! HATE ME!". Honestly, subtlety's a foreign concept to him. He's basically like La Resistance in that he does everything possible to get cheap heat, but there's nothing intelligent about his character whatsoever.

 

I didn't see ONS, but I've seen RVD cut good promos in the past (see the tremendous promo against Jericho in December 2001), and the promo he cut on Carlito on Raw was pretty damn good. He's basically angry at the way he's been held down, and he knows he has the potential to be better, and he's ready to stop taking shit, and do whatever it takes to move up.

 

There are layers to it, and it is much more complex and interesting than the crap JBL spews. When JBL's on the mic in a red, white, and blue clown suit, rambling about nothing, I don't think "that's funny". I don't think "boy I'd like to see Batista beat him". I think "what, does the WWE think I'm five years old? Why would I possibly want to see this? I guess I won't watch Smackdown for another month."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

RVD? Complex?

 

Does not compute. RVD sucks on the mic, for real.

[Guest JMA]

JBL, to me, reeks of midcard. He has certainly gotten better since last year, but he's kind of like Jeff Jarrett - a somewhat talented performer who isn't talented enough nor enough of a draw to be World Champion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a pretty good comparison. Although, I do think Jarrett is a much better in-ring performer than JBL. JBL has the better character, though.

[KingPK 0]

Furthermore, he may not get as much heat as JBL on the mic, but he has a better character, and his promos operate on a higher level than JBL's do.

 

.......

 

I can't do it. The joke is just too damn obvious.

 

JBL is knocking it out of the park regularly with his promos. He's not just using cheap heat (though in the promo this past week had a few moments where he seemed to reach for it), the fans hate the character because he's completely full of himself. The whole "Wrestling GOD!" thing works because JBL thinks he's hot shit in the ring but the fans know that he's retained his title by the skin of his teeth almost every time.

[Fökai 0]

Every "good" Van Dam promo is cancelled out by the one he cut at No Mercy '02 against Flair.

 

Good GOD.

 

EDIT: And please, iggy, if you need to re-watch JBL/Eddie (both times), JBL/Angle or JBL/Cena, do such. All of those are better than anything I've seen out of Van Dam, save RVD/Eddie (which is only better than JBL/Cena, and still the best carry-job I've seen out of Eddie in years).

[SuperJerk 0]

You can deliver the best promo in the world and still be stale if you say the exact same thing week after week.

[Guest JMA]

You can deliver the best promo in the world and still be stale if you say the exact same thing week after week.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This would be the perfect place for a Triple H joke.

[SuperJerk 0]

You can deliver the best promo in the world and still be stale if you say the exact same thing week after week.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This would be the perfect place for a Triple H joke.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Except Triple H never even came close to the first criteria.