The Official NHL Offseason Thread

[smh810 0]

Somehow I missed this gem.

 

Forwards that I would currently take before Peter Forsberg:

 

1- Iginla

2- Lecavalier

3- Sakic

4- Crosby

5- Hejduk

6- St. Louis

7- Naslund

8- Heatley

9- Bergeron

10- Tanguay

 

If it were a few years ago, I'd look at Forsberg as the best in the game, however due to his injuries, he's likely going to take a step back this year and next. I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave the NHL after this contract is up with the Flyers.

 

As usual Max youre wrong, the only guy I would put ahead of Forsberg on this list is Iginla and thats it injuries or no injuries. Vinny could get there soon but STL has only had one great year and putting CROSBY on the list when he's never played an NHL game is absurd. Now he may very well be as good as advertised but lets watch him play first before we make any assumptions.

 

Goalies I'd take over Khabibulin:

 

1- Brodeur

2- Luongo

3- Raycroft

4- Turco

5- Denis

6- Vokoun

 

Yeah No. I agree that Khabibibulin is somewhat overrated and inconsistent and there is a definite shot he could flame out in Chicago but right now the only one I would take over Khabibulin is Brodeur, period. I wanna see how Luongo and Turco do with the pad restrictions, since they were big benders of the rules. As for the others: Raycroft is a one year wonder, Denis is underrated but isnt one of the best and Vokoun, give me a break.

[the max 0]

As usual Max youre wrong,  the only guy I would put ahead of Forsberg on this list is Iginla and thats it injuries or no injuries.  Vinny could get there soon but STL has only had one great year and putting CROSBY on the list when he's never played an NHL game is absurd.  Now he may very well be as good as advertised but lets watch him play first before we make any assumptions.

 

So if you were starting a team RIGHT NOW, you'd take Forsberg over Lecavalier, St. Louis, Hejduk, Crosby, etc.? You'd be stupid. Peter's best years are behind him. I'll agree that Crosby could crash and burn, but I highly doubt it. And I'd take him over Forsberg right now.

 

Yeah No.  I agree that Khabibibulin is somewhat overrated and inconsistent and there is a definite shot he could flame out in Chicago but right now the only one I would take over Khabibulin is Brodeur, period.  I wanna see how Luongo and Turco do with the pad restrictions, since they were big benders of the rules.

 

Louie's pads were still under league restrictions and he put up a sv% of .931 with no defense in front of him. Again, if you were starting a franchise, you'd only take Marty over Khabibulin? I find that hard to believe.

 

As for the others:  Raycroft is a one year wonder,

 

Except that he's excelled at every level he's played at and is one of the best positionally sound goaltenders in the league.

 

Denis is underrated but isnt one of the best

 

Again, if I were starting a team, I'd take Denis over Khabibulin.

 

and Vokoun, give me a break.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe you missed when Vokoun dragged the Nashville fucking Predators into the playoffs on his back? As far as underrated goaltenders, he's arguably the best in the league.

[nl5xsk1 0]

smh, I like how you say Max is wrong for having a different opinion. And by "like" I mean "scoff at".

 

Until Forsberg can prove that he's physically able to play an entire season he won't be the best in the league in my eyes. I wouldn't take him to build a team around, even in a fantasy league. The only really questionable choice that Max made was Crosby, and that's just because he hasn't proven it in the NHL yet. Having said that, though, if MOC gets hit by a bus and the B's hired me to be the GM, I'd rather build a team around Crosby than Forsberg. It's hard to help a team win when you're wearing a suit up in the press box, too injured to play.

 

And for the goalies, while I agree that Raycroft's only played one year, he had a better year statistically than Khabibulin, had a year MUCH better than Khabibulin's rookie season, and had a year that was comparable to any one of Khabibulin's. Is there a chance that he could be a one year wonder? Yes, of course. But is it likely that he's not? Yes, even more so.

 

EDIT: Stupid work made me leave this post un-posted until Max had already responded to smh ... now I look dumb.

[smh810 0]

So if you were starting a team RIGHT NOW, you'd take Forsberg over Lecavalier, St. Louis, Hejduk, Crosby, etc.? You'd be stupid. Peter's best years are behind him. I'll agree that Crosby could crash and burn, but I highly doubt it. And I'd take him over Forsberg right now.

 

See now that changes the context of the statement. Instead of plainly saying who is better youre saying "If you were to start a team right now..." that changes things significantly.

 

Louie's pads were still under league restrictions and he put up a sv% of .931 with no defense in front of him. Again, if you were starting a franchise, you'd only take Marty over Khabibulin? I find that hard to believe.

 

I wanna see Luongo put up those types of numbers with the smaller pads yes he had no D in front of him but he got a lot of help from the pads even if they were technically in line. Again, starting a franchise now changes the context of your statement.

 

Except that he's excelled at every level he's played at and is one of the best positionally sound goaltenders in the league.

 

Excelled? He was a good minor league not a great one and he's had one solid year, he needs to back it up

 

Maybe you missed when Vokoun dragged the Nashville fucking Predators into the playoffs on his back? As far as underrated goaltenders, he's arguably the best in the league.

 

Vokoun is good and he is underrated. However, he's also VERY streaky and prone to inconsistency. Denis is top of the heap as far as underrated goalies go.

 

Oh and something I forgot to address Heatley and Hossa any way you slice it are essentially the same player. Offensive minded who play one side of the ice and dont give a shit about their own zone. Yes Heatley has more upside but theyre both lazy defesively and I dont see Heatley as a playoff performer either. This also makes your Jason Arnott rip even more ridiculous. Whether he matched his rookie season in Edmonton or not Arnott comes to play every night, and has always shown up at playoff time they either have not or likely wont. He's just someone who over achieved his rookie season and has been consistent since leaving Edmonton. He was never capable of 80-90 points but he does play hard every night.

[the max 0]

See now that changes the context of the statement.  Instead of plainly saying who is better youre saying "If you were to start a team right now..." that changes things significantly.

 

My original post read: "Forwards that I would currently take before Peter Forsberg". Sorry for any confusion.

 

I wanna see Luongo put up those types of numbers with the smaller pads yes he had no D in front of him but he got a lot of help from the pads even if they were technically in line.  Again, starting a franchise now changes the context of your statement.

 

Pads only protect you so much when you face almost 2500 shots over 72 games. Simple division says that's almost 35 a GAME. Pads can only stop so many of these shots, after a while you have to admit that he's got some of the best reflexes in the league.

 

Excelled?  He was a good minor league not a great one and he's had one solid year, he needs to back it up

 

Raycroft's AHL GAA and sv%: 2.71/.911. I'd say that's pretty damn good.

 

Vokoun is good and he is underrated.  However,  he's also VERY streaky and prone to inconsistency.  Denis is top of the heap as far as underrated goalies go.

 

I'd still take Vokoun over Khabibulin, since Vokoun got to the playoffs with a lot less and played excellently.

 

Oh and something I forgot to address Heatley and Hossa any way you slice it are essentially the same player.  Offensive minded who play one side of the ice and dont give a shit about their own zone.

 

That describes Heatley moreso than Hossa. The difference between them is Hossa has better defensive awareness and is more capable/willing to help out in his end. Heatley is an unquestioned offensive juggernaut, but he needs a lot of work in the defensive zone.

 

Yes Heatley has more upside but theyre both lazy defesively and I dont see Heatley as a playoff performer either.

 

Hossa IS a playoff performer, witnessed by his 34 points in 51 games.

 

This also makes your Jason Arnott rip even more ridiculous.  Whether he matched his rookie season in Edmonton or not Arnott comes to play every night,

 

I've always hated this comment. Are there NHL players who don't come to every game ready to play? Arnott mails in half the fucking season and only shows up in the playoffs.

 

and has always shown up at playoff time they either have not or likely wont.  He's just someone who over achieved his rookie season and has been consistent since leaving Edmonton.  He was never capable of 80-90 points but he does play hard every night.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Arnott is/was capable of far more than he's done in the NHL. Overachievers in their rookie season tend to drop off, but Arnott wasn't overachieving. He was playing to his potential. Regardless, this argument isn't about your love of Jason Arnott.

[CanadianChris 0]

Couple more signings...Patrik Elias accepted his qualifying offer with the Devils, and Mattias Ohlund signed for four years with Vancouver to avoid arbitration.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Vancouver was smart to lock up Ohlund. He's one of the NHL's most underrated defensemen.

 

Oh, and Tampa Bay signed St. Louis for 6 years at 31.5 million, which means they've got 50 million in guaranteed money locked up for the next 4 years (amnd then 10 million for 2 more after that), will still have to resign Richards and Kubina at some point in the future, and have Grahame as their current starting goaltender. They are headed for cap hell, especially when Vinny does his "good this season, mediocre the next" routine and they realize what a mistake it was paying 6.8 million a year to a forward who hasn't even broken 80 points.

[the max 0]

I think it's safe to say that Brad Richards is not long for the team, and he's probably the most consistant.

[Annabelle 0]

only iginla may be better than forsberg. only brodeur may be better than khabibulin. don't be silly folks. st. louis is NOT better than forsberg. only ignonla may be as complete of a player as forsberg. imagine if he played without injuries during the 80's? he's have been in lemieux territory. to say otherwise is pure folly. forsberg will be healthy again & motivated to be the best. he will be the best. he will be mvp this year. he isn't a guy i'd necessarily build around for the future, but for the present, he's the man.

 

watch what khabibulin will do for the blackhawks. he's the man. i remember watching many-a-game with him as the jets goalie carrying them far. he'll do it again.

 

i'd pick joe thorton as someone to build my team around. he doesn't want to play for boston. despite signing big contract, wouldn't be surprised to see him moved.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

I think it's safe to say that Brad Richards is not long for the team, and he's probably the most consistant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lecavalier is 50% results, 50% hype. Richards is 100% results.

[Annabelle 0]

up until about 2-3 years ago, lecavalier is a 1st pick bust. st. louis doesn't strike me as being the real deal. richards seemed liek the gem of them all. oh well.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Knab is way to incosistant people. Johnm Graham was the starter for 10 games in 03-04 and Knab was seriosuly considered to be traded.

 

Gigere is not Top 5, neither is Kip or Knab. They need to prove it for more than a season.

 

 

Top 5

 

Broduer

Lulongo

Theodore

Turco

Vokoun

[the max 0]

only iginla may be better than forsberg.  only brodeur may be better than khabibulin.  don't be silly folks.  st. louis is NOT better than forsberg.  only ignonla may be as complete of a player as forsberg.  imagine if he played without injuries during the 80's? he's have been in lemieux territory.  to say otherwise is pure folly.  forsberg will be healthy again & motivated to be the best.  he will be the best.  he will be mvp this year.  he isn't a guy i'd necessarily build around for the future, but for the present, he's the man.

 

I disagree with your reasoning, since it revolves entirely around the fact that if Forsberg played without injuries in the 80's (which is really weird, considering that he was drafted in 1991) he'd be one of the greatest of all-time. I hate that line of reasoning. Hell, if Gretzky had played in the 70's more, he'd likely have 3000 points. It's great for "what if" sports, but not for effectively gauging a player's worth now. Forsberg is 32, has battled numerous injuries throughout his career, and will now be counted on to be the player he's capable of being. Do I think he's a great player? Absolutely. Arguably the best of my generation. But to say that he's going to be healthy, he's going to be motivated, he's going to be the best, he's going to be MVP is ludicrous. He has Gagne, Primeau, Kapanen and Knuble. That's a far cry from Sakic, Tanguay and Hejduk.

 

watch what khabibulin will do for the blackhawks.  he's the man.  i remember watching many-a-game with him as the jets goalie carrying them far.  he'll do it again.

 

Which was a full decade ago.

[the max 0]

Knab is way to incosistant people. Johnm Graham was the starter for 10 games in 03-04 and Knab was seriosuly considered to be traded.

 

Gigere is not Top 5, neither is Kip or Knab. They need to prove it for more than a season.

 

 

Top 5

 

Broduer

Lulongo

Theodore

Turco

Vokoun

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Who's Kip? I'm going to guess Kiprusoff? Knab=Khabibulin? You need a spell checker or something. Or to type slower.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Knab is way to incosistant people. Johnm Graham was the starter for 10 games in 03-04 and Knab was seriosuly considered to be traded.

 

Gigere is not Top 5, neither is Kip or Knab. They need to prove it for more than a season.

 

 

Top 5

 

Broduer

Lulongo

Theodore

Turco

Vokoun

[CanadianChris 0]

Strange news from Atlanta, and I didn't get the entire story...apparently, Thrashers G Pasi Nurminen has suffered a likely career-ending knee injury.

[smh810 0]

Holy shit I have a lot to reply too lets see where I start:

 

Raycroft's AHL GAA and sv%: 2.71/.911. I'd say that's pretty damn good.

 

Thats good but its not excelling and its precisely why he needs to show me more than one year of solid play.

 

I've always hated this comment. Are there NHL players who don't come to every game ready to play?

 

Alexi Yashin says Hi.

 

Arnott is/was capable of far more than he's done in the NHL. Overachievers in their rookie season tend to drop off, but Arnott wasn't overachieving. He was playing to his potential. Regardless, this argument isn't about your love of Jason Arnott.

 

Ask any Devils fan if they think Arnott is an underpeformer, he didtake a stupid in the finals but made up for it by getting the Cup-clinching goal. Don't get me wrong he is a No.2 center but calling him an underperformer who mails in half the year is outreagous.

 

Hossa IS a playoff performer, witnessed by his 34 points in 51 games.

 

Hossa is a stat boy period. How many of those points were when the Sens were way ahead or way behind I'd be willing to bet most of them. He wilts just like the rest of that team in a pressure situation The only true clutch player for the Sens is Alffreddson and thats it.

 

I think it's safe to say that Brad Richards is not long for the team, and he's probably the most consistant.

 

Richards will be signed next year and heres why, he's already counting for 3.5 mill against the cap this year. When he does his new deal, it's not gonna increase his salary that much.

 

Lecavalier is 50% results, 50% hype. Richards is 100% results.

 

That was the case in 2000 but not now. Vinny has scored 30+ the last 2 seasons and was outstanding in the playoffs. Richards is more consistent but Vinny could be a 40 goal 90 point wrecking machine this year.

 

 

Johnm Graham was the starter for 10 games in 03-04 and Knab was seriosuly considered to be traded.

 

Grahame started 29 games and was 18-9-2 with a 2.06 GAA and was VERY close to becoming the No.1 goalie. Although it didnt thrill me at first thought I'm very comfortable with Grahame at the top.

[CanadianChris 0]

Hossa IS a playoff performer, witnessed by his 34 points in 51 games.

 

Hossa is a stat boy period. How many of those points were when the Sens were way ahead or way behind I'd be willing to bet most of them.

How much?

[the max 0]

Alexi Yashin says Hi.

 

Your quote and my quip imply that there are hockey players who come to the arena without skates or have their jersey on inside out. Yashin was ready to play, he just wasn't ready to respond to the pressure that his skills demanded.

 

Ask any Devils fan if they think Arnott is an underpeformer, he didtake a stupid in the finals but made up for it by getting the Cup-clinching goal.  Don't get me wrong he is a No.2 center but calling him an underperformer who mails in half the year is outreagous.

 

WATCH HIM PLAY! For god's sake! He doesn't play the body, he skates in circles avoiding contact for most of the fucking game! He appears late to score a goal and appear to have done something! What is with this hard-on for Jason Arnott?! He's an AVERAGE player. At BEST. Calling him an underachiever is accurate, as is him mailing in half the season...if you WATCH HIM PLAY.

 

Hossa is a stat boy period.  How many of those points were when the Sens were way ahead or way behind I'd be willing to bet most of them.  He wilts just like the rest of that team in a pressure situation  The only true clutch player for the Sens is Alffreddson and thats it.

 

So look them up. Fact is, I've watched him in the playoffs (since his second season) and he's been a constant threat. Especially in their last two appearances, when he saw the best that the opposition had to offer and still excelled. But I must be wrong, because I disagree with you, right?

 

Richards will be signed next year and heres why, he's already counting for 3.5 mill against the cap this year.  When he does his new deal, it's not gonna increase his salary that much.

 

What if he doesn't want to come back? He'll be an RFA, but he'll be able to make more money elsewhere.

 

That was the case in 2000 but not now.  Vinny has scored 30+ the last 2 seasons and was outstanding in the playoffs.  Richards is more consistent but Vinny could be a 40 goal 90 point wrecking machine this year.

 

He could be. Or he could be the same <80 points player. Hell, Richards has had more points in a season than Vinnie and Vinnie's making twice as much a year.

 

Grahame started 29 games and was 18-9-2 with a 2.06 GAA and was VERY close to becoming the No.1 goalie.  Although it didnt thrill me at first thought I'm very comfortable with Grahame at the top.

 

Speaking as a Bruins fan, if you want John Grahame, you may have him.

[Annabelle 0]

khabibulin has been carryign teams for years. he even carried the lgihtning in the lats playoffs against the flames. had any other goaltender been playing, they woulda lost.

 

i use the 80's as ai "what if" to demonstrate that forsberg is a pler who only comes around so often. you even admitted that he's the greatest player of our generation. now with so many other weapons with him, he won't be the focal point of other teams attacks. and if he is, he can distribute the puck to many other suitable players. he's amazing, so fast and physical. i can't remember anyone being the total package like him. injuries derailed a legendary career, but one can't dispute what he maybe possibly do for the enxt few years. to say a team would rather have patric bergeron than him is fucking ridiculous. even milan hejduk. who are you kidding? the patrice bergeron example shows a disgusting bruins bias. forsberk is going to use his weapons to his advantage & prove he's the best in the game. PERIOD. go bruins.

[smh810 0]

WATCH HIM PLAY! For god's sake! He doesn't play the body, he skates in circles avoiding contact for most of the fucking game! He appears late to score a goal and appear to have done something! What is with this hard-on for Jason Arnott?! He's an AVERAGE player. At BEST. Calling him an underachiever is accurate, as is him mailing in half the season...if you WATCH HIM PLAY.

 

Lets just say we're not seeing the same player.

 

So look them up. Fact is, I've watched him in the playoffs (since his second season) and he's been a constant threat. Especially in their last two appearances, when he saw the best that the opposition had to offer and still excelled. But I must be wrong, because I disagree with you, right?

 

Yes.

 

What if he doesn't want to come back? He'll be an RFA, but he'll be able to make more money elsewhere.

 

He will want to come back for a couple of reasons. First off, the Lightning are fast becoming one of the premier organizations in the NHL. We're becoming the Avalanche, Red Wings, Devils...etc. They take care of their core players. Secondly, Brad and Vinny have been best friends since they were 14 and I think Richards will prefer to stay with his buddy than fly the coupe elsewhere unless the Bolts ridiculously lowball him (which they wont).

 

Speaking as a Bruins fan, if you want John Grahame, you may have him.

 

And when we win a 2nd Stanley Cup with in the next 3 years, I'll be laughing all the way.

[the max 0]

Wow. It appears I know nothing about this sport! smh knows more than anyone!

[CanadianChris 0]

Still waiting on how much you want to bet on the Hossa thing, smh.

[the max 0]

Look out Chris. You have a differing opinion, so he's going to shovel as much bullshit as he can to make you look wrong.

[smh810 0]

50 pesos Chris...

[nl5xsk1 0]

to say a team would rather have patric bergeron than him is fucking ridiculous. even milan hejduk. who are you kidding? the patrice bergeron example shows a disgusting bruins bias. forsberk is going to use his weapons to his advantage & prove he's the best in the game. PERIOD. go bruins.

che, Bruins-bias or not, the argument is (seemingly) about who you'd rather build a team around. Would I choose a player that played less than half a year last season (and missed the entire season the year before) or a guy that's played a full year in the NHL even though he's young enough to still play in the World Junior tourney? Give me the kid who's more likely to stay healthy and play most of the games.

 

Even in the new 'open ice era' Forsberg will find that the East is a much more physical conference. I'd be surprised if he plays more than 60 games this year.

 

He will want to come back for a couple of reasons. First off, the Lightning are fast becoming one of the premier organizations in the NHL. We're becoming the Avalanche, Red Wings, Devils...etc. They take care of their core players. Secondly, Brad and Vinny have been best friends since they were 14 and I think Richards will prefer to stay with his buddy than fly the coupe elsewhere unless the Bolts ridiculously lowball him (which they wont).

smh, two of those three organizations were premier organizations because they could throw money around. The Devils I'll give you, they managed to win each year with a reasonable payroll, but having a world-class netminder and a boring, defense-first (and second and third) game plan will help a team win with less talent. But Detroit & Colorado were able to overpay for years AND pick up high price players each season (Lang, Hatcher, Kariya, Selanne) ... this is a new era, teams will be restricted by a Cup. And if you think that playing with a "buddy" will make a guy play for millions less than he can get on the open market, you're crazy.

 

And when we win a 2nd Stanley Cup with in the next 3 years, I'll be laughing all the way.

I'm an admitted Grahame-mark, and even I think it's laughable that he'd lead a team to the Cup.

[smh810 0]

smh, two of those three organizations were premier organizations because they could throw money around. The Devils I'll give you, they managed to win each year with a reasonable payroll, but having a world-class netminder and a boring, defense-first (and second and third) game plan will help a team win with less talent. But Detroit & Colorado were able to overpay for years AND pick up high price players each season (Lang, Hatcher, Kariya, Selanne) ... this is a new era, teams will be restricted by a Cup. And if you think that playing with a "buddy" will make a guy play for millions less than he can get on the open market, you're crazy.

 

A couple of points here, yes Detroit and Colorado could pick and choose whoever they wanted but they also knew how to run an organization, unlike the Rangers who would just spend blindly with no foresight. Think about it how many players would say they had bad experiences with those organizations (granted they won multiple Cups but I think the point still stands)... The second point is this there is not gonna be much of a disparity between what the Lightning will offer Brad and what another team would if any. He's not gonna grab that much more and he doesant strike me as a money chaser (like Khabibulin). Remember Khabibulin only signed for $750,000 more most of which he's gonna lose in taxes anyway. They will offer Brad a lot of money to hang around here, and I think he'll take it.

 

'm an admitted Grahame-mark, and even I think it's laughable that he'd lead a team to the Cup.

 

Why is it laughable? The guy won 18 games as a back-up with a save percentage over 91% and was VERY close to unseating Khabibulin as the starting goaltender. Do we know whether he can lead a team to the cup of course not. However calling it laughable is a stretch in my opinion.

[nl5xsk1 0]

We'll see how well the Avalanche and Wings run their organizations this year, now that they have a limit to what they can spend.

 

In 2003-04, the Wings payroll was ~$77 million, and they had 8 players making more than $5 million a year. The Avs payroll was over $63 million and they had 3 guys making more than $9 million a year. And that's with Kariya playing for a fraction of his worth ... they should have been closer to $70 million. (source: http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/...x?year=2003-04)

 

I'll agree about the Rangers, they did a piss, piss, PISS-poor job of spending money.

 

Richards will get a bigger offer than you'd think, I think ... certainly more than what the Lighting will be able to pay him, unless they're planning on having a handful of players making the minimum. Richards should get $4.5-5 million a year, and if the Bolts give him that, they'd have, what, a third of their payroll tied up in three guys? (I actually think either St Louis of Vinny will have to get moved in the next 2/3 years ... they've tied up too much money in two players, for 4 years at a minimum)

 

Grahame's a great back-up, but I don't think he's a #1 goalie ... yeah, he won a Calder Cup with Providence, but he's never played more than 30 games in a year. Let's see him play a full year as a #1 goalie before we start debating his ability to win a Cup. You yourself called Raycroft a "one year wonder" ... at least he has one year as a starter under his belt.

[CanadianChris 0]

'm an admitted Grahame-mark, and even I think it's laughable that he'd lead a team to the Cup.

 

Why is it laughable? The guy won 18 games as a back-up with a save percentage over 91% and was VERY close to unseating Khabibulin as the starting goaltender. Do we know whether he can lead a team to the cup of course not. However calling it laughable is a stretch in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

91% was quite average in recent seasons. You needed around 92% just to crack the top 10. The fact that his GAA was substantially less than Khabibulin's is misleading also, given that he faced around 3 fewer shots a game. For some reason, the defense played better around Grahame.

 

50 pesos Chris...

Bah. In any event, 27 of Hossa's 34 career playoff points were on either game-tying or go-ahead goals, or goals that pulled the Sens to within a goal or put them up by 2.

[nl5xsk1 0]

91% was quite average in recent seasons.  You needed around 92% just to crack the top 10.  The fact that his GAA was substantially less than Khabibulin's is misleading also, given that he faced around 3 fewer shots a game.  For some reason, the defense played better around Grahame.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because they knew they had to?