Campaign 2008

[godthedog 0]

well, you can disagree with a candidate's policies while still believing they would make a better president, and vice versa.

 

in clinton's case, there's a pretty big divide between the "policies" and the "whatnot"--in this situation, the "whatnot" meaning "how the person will act executively in novel or crisis situations."

 

also: there was absolutely no reason for any outside spectators to be in the room where that meeting was taking place. none. since they couldn't ask questions, the only way they could participate was by cheering, booing, and generally being disruptive to the process. when you invite people into the room who are already riled up to bus across the country for it, you're asking for chaos. (i say this of the obama supporters as well as the clinton ones.) you just can't put them in there and expect them to quietly watch. if he couldn't justify it by "playing to the crowd," there was no way ickes would've opened his mouth to make as many dumb questions or comments as he ended up doing. i half-expected carl levin to walk over and hit him over the head.

 

if people want to know what's going on, let them watch it on tv.

[SuperJerk 0]

also: there was absolutely no reason for any outside spectators to be in the room where that meeting was taking place. none. since they couldn't ask questions, the only way they could participate was by cheering, booing, and generally being disruptive to the process. when you invite people into the room who are already riled up to bus across the country for it, you're asking for chaos. (i say this of the obama supporters as well as the clinton ones.) you just can't put them in there and expect them to quietly watch. if he couldn't justify it by "playing to the crowd," there was no way ickes would've opened his mouth to make as many dumb questions or comments as he ended up doing. i half-expected carl levin to walk over and hit him over the head.

 

if people want to know what's going on, let them watch it on tv.

Good point.

 

I guess this lady ended up getting kicked out...

 

 

 

[snuffbox 0]

Was he able to mention Bill Ayers' name in there as well?

 

You mean William "ADMITTED TERRORIST AND BARACK OBAMA'S BEST FRIEND" Ayers, right? I think that's his legal name now, or something, the way Hannity says it.

 

My favorite Hannity Obama-trolling moment is when he tried to Jaywalk up the dumbest Obama supporters he could find, although they curiously were not black or latte-sipping libs.

 

I recently heard Hannity start squeeling 'He went to his house! He went to his house! He went to his house!' He's trying so hard to get his Obama conspiracies over. Sadly, as we've all seen on this message board and, presumably, in all of our own lives, a whole bunch of people actually believe this horseshit.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

I'm really puzzled by the Hillary supporters now insisting they'll vote for Mccain. Aside from the fact Hillary and Obama are 95% the same policy wise, Hillary has made it clear she doesn't want her supporters to vote republican in the GE. She'll also be endorsing Obama at some point. If they're such die hard Hilary fans, surely they'd vote for the person she tells them to vote for?

 

 

Also, Hillary's guaranteed a high position and more power in an Obama administration, which is more than she would have if Mccain won.

[godthedog 0]

not only that, but MCCAIN HATES WOMEN. HE HATES THEM LIKE THE STENCH OF DEATH. how do you make a statement about sexism in the political process by voting for the man who hates women?

 

this is one area where geraldine ferraro has a chance to make a huge difference, and for whatever reason she just has not talked about it at all. it wouldn't even involve much changing of her tune, you just say something like: "if there were frequent rumors of mccain demeaning or mistreating blacks, do you think he'd be allowed anywhere near the nomination? of course not. but since it's women, they're just 'unconfirmed rumors' that don't need to be discussed. what does it say about the political culture when rumors of racism are so damning and rumors of sexism go nowhere?"

 

that, to my mind, is a very real problem of double standards that can (and should) be discussed, in a way that doesn't need to undercut the democratic party. so, why does ferraro only focus on obama and not mccain?

 

the answer is clear: she hates black people.

[2GOLD 0]

No, she has certain breed of supporter. Meaning as much as she doesn't want to admit it and a lot of insiders don't want to admit, she has some supporters who are racist bastards who still see Obama as a terrorist piece of scum. And there is nothing Hilary can do to stop them from not wanting to vote for a black man. Obama might have some who are only voting for him cause he's black (more than likely) but odds are if he loses, they just won't vote. They won't go out and vote for the rich old white guy.

 

The difference is Obama's camp really hasn't played the race card, the preacher did. Obama has pretty much avoided most of the stereotype cards and made this about two candiates. The only one I've seen who is constantly playing the race and sexism card is Clinton cause she is losing. Well guess what, you play those cards then you are going to get a LOT of supporters who are with you for the wrong reasons.

 

Hell you have some Clinton supporters who are 100% sure if Obama wins that he's going to surrender to the terrorists, hug his good friend Bin Laden and then make every white person into slaves to pay for what they did to his people.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

I would understand Hillary supporters being upset, but most of her problems aren't because of sexism, like their claiming, it's because of her own actions:

 

- the Iraq vote and her refusal to apologise

-not planning after super tuesday

- not spending her cash well

-the Bosnia thing and her being percieved as untruthful.

-Bill going crazy.

 

Now what does any of that have to do with her being a woman? I think she's been the victim of sexism at certain points, but that's not why she's losing.

 

 

I think a lot of Hillary supporters, mainly the older women, are so wrapped up in how hard its been for Hillary, they don't really see how difficult its been for Obama either. He's just another man who's had an easy time of it, and walked into a position than a woman deserved more.

 

 

[RepoMan 0]

Thanks for the insight...

 

As far as the picture goes...I can't understand why someone supporting Clinton could be so vehemently opposed to Obama as the nominee, or vice versa. Its not like we're talking about a Goldwater/Rockefeller or a Truman/Thurmond size split on the issues.

 

I only say that because I honestly feel she is fucking her party over for her own personal gain. Not that personal gain is foreign to politics, but when the world knows you are disingenuous... come on. I can't, in good conscience, vote for someone I know is so self-serving. That's my own reasoning.

 

I'm a registered Democrat and Obama supporter and feel the exact same way. Plus I live in NY State so it dosn't matter if I throw away my vote. If Hillary somehow got the nomination and I still lived in Ohio, I'd vote for her, but feel totally disgusted with myself for doing so.

 

[At Home 0]

No, she has certain breed of supporter.

 

Right, women. It appears to me that most of the movers and shakers at the MI-FL conference for the Clinton camp were women. In my view, it appears that the driving impetus for women there supporting Clinton is because they need to see a woman in the white house. It's short sighted, but I can understand that. If we're not talking about a serious schism in political policy, then it's a matter of character, moreso than electability, and the immediate factor in Clinton's character is that she has a vagina.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

No, she has certain breed of supporter.

 

Right, women. It appears to me that most of the movers and shakers at the MI-FL conference for the Clinton camp were women. In my view, it appears that the driving impetus for women there supporting Clinton is because they need to see a woman in the white house. It's short sighted, but I can understand that. If we're not talking about a serious schism in political policy, then it's a matter of character, moreso than electability, and the immediate factor in Clinton's character is that she has a vagina.

 

 

Most black women and younger women tend to go overwhelmingly for Obama though. I think Hillary gets older woman because they know they might not have another chance wheras the younger ones prefer Obama and knew there will be another woman at some point. Most if not all the women at the conference were older.

[At Home 0]

Yep.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Vanity Fair are claiming Bill has been sleeping around on the road

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feature...7/clinton200807

 

 

Oh, and analyst Roger Stone said the clinton's are now targeting Michelle because of an allegeded tape that exists of Michelle Obama making some very contraversial remarks regarding white people. If you believe the rumours the republicans have this tape but are waiting till October, but Hillary wants it, so she can use it now.

 

 

Well, spouses fuck everything up.

[At Home 0]

The Obama camp is working to get 25-30 supers on their side by tuesday night, CSNBC reports.

[snuffbox 0]

That Vanity Fair article is fairly interesting. And, no, it does not come out and claim that Clinton has been sleeping around; it reports on his post-presidential life and that even some of his supporters and aides have been leery of his behavior, lifestyle, and personal dealings.

[SuperJerk 0]

Oh, and analyst Roger Stone said the clinton's are now targeting Michelle because of an allegeded tape that exists of Michelle Obama making some very contraversial remarks regarding white people. If you believe the rumours the republicans have this tape but are waiting till October, but Hillary wants it, so she can use it now.

 

If its true, I'm sure it is something perfectly reasonable that will be blown way out of proportion by conservtives. I'm learning that most people (black or white) consider anything that points out the obvious social and economic disadvantages most African-Americans face to be controversial and/or racist.

 

More Clinton campaign sheninigans from yesterday:

Lanny Davis, the colorful, committed, and sometimes unrestrained Clinton supporter deliberately interrupted a small gathering of press who had come to hear Jon Ausman, a DNC member, explain the basis of his proposed Florida delegation compromise...

 

Ausman: [My proposal] is very generous, because Obama was initially fighting for a situation where Clinton would net 6 delegates, now it's 19.

 

Davis: Don't say you're being generous.

 

Ausman: I can say we're being generous.

 

Davis: But you're allowed to and I'm allowed to disagree...

 

Ausman: But I'm the one who's on the petition...

 

Reporter: Ok ok, why don't we --

 

Ausman: Are you a representative of Clinton?

 

Davis: No, I'm actually just a person...

 

Ausman: Are you a designated representative of Clinton?

 

Davis: I am not a designated representative.

 

Ausman: Then why don't we have a designated representative speak for Clinton and you be silent?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/31/l...o_n_104474.html

[SuperJerk 0]

Clinton claims victory in Puerto Rico

Story Highlights

• NEW: Clinton claims she'd be the stronger candidate to face McCain
• Elections officials report low turnout
• Obama campaign spokesman: Obama could clinch nomination soon
• Montana, South Dakota hold final two contests Tuesday

 

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Clinton claimed victory in Puerto Rico on Sunday and insisted that she is leading Sen. Barack Obama in the popular vote.

 

With 93 percent of precincts reporting, Clinton was ahead of Barack Obama by more than a 2-1 ratio.

 

Her win gives her the larger share of Puerto Rico's 55 delegates.

 

The Democratic primary season ends Tuesday when Montana and South Dakota cast their votes.

 

"When the voting concludes on Tuesday, neither Sen. Obama nor I will have the number of delegates to be the nominee," she said in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

 

"I will lead the popular vote; he will maintain a slight lead in the delegate count," she said.

 

Obama leads in the overall delegate count -- 2,070 to Clinton's 1,915.

 

A candidate needs 2,118 to claim the Democratic nomination.

 

The Clinton campaign has been focusing on the popular vote as it tries to convince superdelegates to pick her instead of Obama. The superdelegates are a group of about 800 party leaders and officials who vote at the convention for the candidate of their choice.

 

But the popular vote count is debatable.

 

If all the primary results including Florida and Michigan are counted, but not the caucus votes, Clinton leads in the popular vote 17,461,845 to Obama's 17,244,762, according to CNN estimates.

 

That number includes giving Obama all the "uncommitted" votes from Michigan.

 

Florida and Michigan were stripped of their delegates for scheduling their primaries too early. Clinton won both states, but Obama's name was not even on the ballot in Michigan.

 

The Democratic National Committee decided Saturday to reinstate all of Florida and Michigan's delegates to the national convention, with each delegate getting a half-vote to penalize the two states for holding their primaries earlier than party rules allowed.

 

The DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee's move gave Clinton 87 delegates and Obama 63.

 

In a second scenario, which adds in CNN's estimate of the caucus-goers, Obama leads Clinton 17,928,000 to 17,843,000.

 

And in a third scenario, which includes all of the caucuses but does not give Obama Michigan's "uncommitted" vote, Clinton leads 17,873,000 to 17,703,000.

 

Obama campaign spokesman Robert Gibbs expressed confidence that Obama would clinch the nomination in the coming days.

 

"If not Tuesday, I think it will be fairly soon," he said Sunday on ABC's "This Week."

 

"We hope this week, absolutely," he added.

 

At a campaign stop in Mitchell, South Dakota, Obama congratulated Clinton for her win Sunday and praised her for being an "outstanding public servant."

 

"She is going to be a great asset when we go into November to make sure that we defeat the Republicans," he said. Watch Obama rally in South Dakota »

 

As Clinton tries to win over the undecided superdelegates, she argued Sunday that she would be the stronger candidate to face Republican John McCain in the fall.

 

"In the final assessment, I ask you to consider these questions: Which candidate best represents the will of the people who voted in this historic primary? Which candidate is best able to lead us to victory in November? And which candidate is best able to lead our nation as our president in the face of unprecedented challenges at home and abroad?"

 

In the Puerto Rico primary, Clinton swept Obama in every major demographic group, including groups Obama generally wins, such as younger voters and higher-income voters, according to CNN's exit polls.

 

CNN estimated turnout to be between 325,000 and 425,000.

 

"Most people in Puerto Rico, I would venture to guess, they are not even aware that there's a primary going on," said Luis Pabón-Roca, a local political analyst.

 

Part of the reason for the lack of interest, he said, is because voters feel the primary isn't meaningful since Puerto Ricans cannot vote in the general election.

 

The Democratic and Republican parties run the primaries and caucuses, and they allow U.S. territories, such as the commonwealth of Puerto Rico, to take part in the process.

 

But only the 50 states and the District of Columbia vote in the general election.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/01/pue...rico/index.html

 

Hillary Clinton: #1 with people whose votes don't count.

[Gary Floyd 0]

Phyllis Diller sure is pissed.

[SuperJerk 0]

McCain is showing either great ignorance or willingness to misinform the public about Iran.

 

McCain took Obama to task for the latter's stated willingness to meet with the leaders of countries like Iran, which the Arizona Republican described as the greatest threat facing Israel.

 

"We hear talk of a meeting with the Iranian leadership offered up as if it were some sudden inspiration, a bold new idea that somehow nobody has ever thought of before," McCain said without naming Obama.

 

"Yet it's hard to see what such a summit with (Iranian) President (Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad would actually gain, except an earful of anti-Semitic rants, and a worldwide audience for a man who denies one Holocaust and talks before frenzied crowds about starting another. Such a spectacle would harm Iranian moderates and dissidents, as the radicals and hardliners strengthen their position and suddenly acquire the appearance of respectability."

 

He blasted Obama for voting against a measure to label Iran's Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization.

 

"Over three quarters of the Senate supported this obvious step, but not Sen. Obama," he said.

 

"He opposed this resolution because its support for countering Iranian influence in Iraq was, he said, a 'wrong message not only to the world, but also to the region.' But here, too, he is mistaken. Holding Iran's influence in check, and holding a terrorist organization accountable, sends exactly the right message — to Iran, to the region and to the world."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...o-israel-forum/

 

Point 1: Iran's president is not the actual leader of the country. He does have final say in foriegn policy, nor is he head of the military. Those jobs responcibilities belong to the Supreme Leader.

 

Point 2: Iran's Revolutionary Guard is an official branch of the Iranian military, and is under the command of Iran's Supreme Leader.

 

 

[snuffbox 0]

McCain has proven, beyond doubt, that he doesn'tknow a goddam thing about Iraq or Iran during this campaign.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

McCain has proven, beyond doubt, that he doesn'tknow a goddam thing about Iraq or Iran during this campaign.

 

Either that, or he's just completely willfully ignorant about the realities in the Middle East.

[RepoMan 0]

McCain has proven, beyond doubt, that he doesn'tknow a goddam thing about Iraq or Iran during this campaign.

 

Either that, or he's just completely willfully ignorant about the realities in the Middle East.

 

[NoCalMike 0]

McCain has proven, beyond doubt, that he doesn'tknow a goddam thing about Iraq or Iran during this campaign.

 

Exactly, and I think that is really the most dissapointing attribute of McCain right now. You'd think he would know better then the nonsense he keeps trying to push as "the facts on the ground" It is sad to say and maybe a bit premature to imply, but at this point I am thinking the only reason McCain is still pushing for this abortion of a foreign-policy is because he has possibly falling in with the money-grab crowd that is making a fortune off of this never-ending conflict.

[SuperJerk 0]

Or because the fear of terrorism is the Republican Party's only remaining path to power. They've milked 9/11 and terrorism as masterfully as Nixon and Reagan milked the Cold War for political gain.

[snuffbox 0]

Worked so well in 2006.

[SuperJerk 0]

Hence the shift in fear-mongering from Iraq to Iran.

[snuffbox 0]

Well, the American Voter has certainly given the GOP plenty of reasons to believe it will drool on the ballot and spread feces on the poll booth over the years.

[SuperJerk 0]

All signs point to Clinton dropping out tomorrow night.

 

Hillary Clinton is keeping tight-lipped about her plans for Wednesday, the day after the final two Democratic primary contests, but her husband, former President Bill Clinton may already have thrown in his towel.

 

“This may be the last day I’m ever involved in a campaign of this kind,” he told South Dakota voters on Monday.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/02/bi...s-winding-down/

 

Rumor has it the Obama campaign will be rolling out around 30 superdelegates Tuesday, including 17 U.S. Senators and House Majority Whip James Clyburn.

 

Obama will get a big bounce in the polls once Clinton drops out and endorses him.

Edited June 3, 2008 by SuperJerk

[SuperJerk 0]

Top adviser Harold Ickes and fundraising director Jonathan Mantz held a conference call with top donors Monday. Among other things, Ickes said Clinton most likely would not appeal a ruling by the Democratic Party rules committee seating the delegation from a disputed primary in Michigan, according to a participant who described the call on condition of anonymity. Clinton signaled Saturday she might contest the ruling, which would virtually guarantee the nomination fight would continue until the party's convention in August.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g-qGLDs...y3j3dwD912644G0

 

Our long national nightmare might almost kind of be nearly over.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

I think she's more likely to suspend her campaign rather than concede.

 

 

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

AP tally: Obama clinches Democratic nomination

 

WASHINGTON (AP) - Barack Obama has effectively clinched the Democratic presidential nomination, based on an Associated Press tally of convention delegates.

 

The tally put Obama over the top Tuesday, ahead of the results from the day's final primaries in Montana and South Dakota. The Illinois senator becomes the first black candidate ever to lead his party into a fall campaign for the White House. Obama outlasted former first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton in a historic contest and now faces Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona for the presidency.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9...;show_article=1