Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2005 Bejamin hate? Masters and Carlito love? Is this thread on PCP? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest slmon Report post Posted August 9, 2005 "Whatever happened to the Shelton vs Carlito for IC title angle?" Smarks were bitching about it going on too long, so the WWE pulled it. *g* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Y2DAYDAY Report post Posted August 9, 2005 At the arena, the impression I got was almost everyone was cheering for Angle, then most of those fans chant you suck just because they think it is a fun thing to do. I thought live that the you suck chant was pretty loud. Kurt Angle is the #4 babyface in his own hometown, which says volumes about how over Cena, Hogan, and Batista are and why they are doing current product around those 3 as the top faces. As for Benjamin, wasn't he getting heeled for no reason when working Carlito in June? Yeah, a whitehot babyface there. HHH tried to an extent with this guy and he didn't catch on so they pulled the plug on him and had HHH beat him down. Yeah, it was stupid having him work face against Ric Flair in Canada but still, a hot babyface would have overcome it. Shelton needs a year or so in this midcard before them trying to move him to the top. They won't bury him on purpose because he is a WWE made product and the top guys want to work with him(HHH, Angle, HBK,etc). It will pretty much be up to Shelton to see if he makes it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2005 Shelton is a guy that has to get over through quality matches. It's that simple. When he was getting over it was due to his efforts in the Money in the Bank match at WM, and subsequent good bouts with Michaels and Jericho. I still say Raw desperately needs someone like RVD, and it'll be great to see him back in Oct. Raw's face side is so horrible as to not even be funny at this point and the addition of RVD would give the fans someone to actually like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benoit4hor 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2005 John Cena was a better worker at 9. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silence 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2005 John Cena was a better worker at 9. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm trying to figure out what that comment meant. What's this "9" anyway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2005 John Cena was a better worker at 9. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm trying to figure out what that comment meant. What's this "9" anyway? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Age 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Da Maintenance Man 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2005 John Cena was a better worker at 9. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Once he turns heel I bet his workrate will go back up. There's no way in hell he forgot how to do all the shit he busted out in 02-03 when he first debuted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2005 They say once you suck you never forget how. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silence 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2005 Age 9 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sadly enough, it's true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaosrage 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2005 Kinda sad that after everything Shawn has said about Hogan, the best they can come up with for him to say is "Bret Hart!" which Shawn had the perfect comeback to and "....hey remember that time you lost your smile and had to sit out for 7 years?" (Which was more like 3 months, shows that he had probably never heard of it before last night) Plus the same lines he's been saying for 2 decades "I do it for the fans brother!" Still, it was fun watching Shawn destroy Hogan on the mic. Hulk even looked a little nervous, stuttering and stammering. How could they keep a character like Shawn's locked up for so many years if he can just turn it on like the flip of a switch and be 1000x more entertaining? I can't wait for Montreal next week so Shawn can really play off the fans.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benoit4hor 0 Report post Posted August 9, 2005 The whole "you lost your smile, I'm not in it for my smile but for the fans" could have easily been dismissed if shawn would've just said something about the NWO and Hogan having trash thrown at him every week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest *KNK* Report post Posted August 10, 2005 I missed Shawn's "comeback" to the Bret Hart mention...what was it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2005 Y2DAYDAY: During the 6 man dark match tag, did Michaels' pants rip at all? Just curious because they did in the same match back in Philly, and was wondering if that was made a permanent spot in those matches or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted August 10, 2005 Kinda sad that after everything Shawn has said about Hogan, the best they can come up with for him to say is "Bret Hart!" which Shawn had the perfect comeback to and "....hey remember that time you lost your smile and had to sit out for 7 years?" (Which was more like 3 months, shows that he had probably never heard of it before last night) Plus the same lines he's been saying for 2 decades "I do it for the fans brother!" Still, it was fun watching Shawn destroy Hogan on the mic. Hulk even looked a little nervous, stuttering and stammering. How could they keep a character like Shawn's locked up for so many years if he can just turn it on like the flip of a switch and be 1000x more entertaining? I can't wait for Montreal next week so Shawn can really play off the fans.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How did Shawn destroy Hogan on the mic? If it was so good, the fans wouldn't have booed the shit out of him--and he definitely wasn't trying to get heel heat at first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaosrage 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2005 How did Shawn destroy Hogan on the mic? If it was so good, the fans wouldn't have booed the shit out of him--and he definitely wasn't trying to get heel heat at first. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He came out to boos. He's a heel. Yet despite that, he was getting more and more cheers as his promo went on and Hogan had a mixed reaction at times too. When Shawn talked, he was more confident, his words were clearer, he seemed more motivated, his words had a sting to them that Hogan's didn't. Hogan didn't have a comeback to anything he said or for that matter anything he's been saying for weeks. Like I said, he just randomly shouted "Bret Hart!"and Shawn had a beautiful comeback to it. He brought up Shawn losing his smile and screwed it up making it seem like he didn't know what he was talking about. Well then he says "You do this for you but I do it for the hulkamanaics, brother." However, Shawn's been not only saying but explaining for weeks just HOW he does more for the fans than Hogan would ever dream of doing. (Breaking his back wrestling, putting on a match at Battle Creek just like it would be Madison Square Garden while Hogan wouldn't even make it to the show, the best he can give the fans is posing, etc..) His comeback to it? He doesn't have any and probably doesn't care enough to. Fans will still cheer Hogan because he's Hogan though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shanghai Kid 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2005 Kinda sad that after everything Shawn has said about Hogan, the best they can come up with for him to say is "Bret Hart!" which Shawn had the perfect comeback to and "....hey remember that time you lost your smile and had to sit out for 7 years?" (Which was more like 3 months, shows that he had probably never heard of it before last night) Plus the same lines he's been saying for 2 decades "I do it for the fans brother!" Still, it was fun watching Shawn destroy Hogan on the mic. Hulk even looked a little nervous, stuttering and stammering. How could they keep a character like Shawn's locked up for so many years if he can just turn it on like the flip of a switch and be 1000x more entertaining? I can't wait for Montreal next week so Shawn can really play off the fans.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How did Shawn destroy Hogan on the mic? If it was so good, the fans wouldn't have booed the shit out of him--and he definitely wasn't trying to get heel heat at first. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually Shawn has been getting the best kind of reaction, at least up until Hogan spoke last night. He got not cheers, but fans clapping, as in they respected what he was saying. The idea that he was trying to be the face is stupid, look at the outcome, he superkicked Lawler and than Hogan beat him up and out of the ring, which is what Hogan does to heels. My whole take on Shawn's 'character' right now is that he's a heel but he's not a full fledged heel. He's doing and saying heel stuff but he hasn't turned on his fans. The fans only really started giving him legit heel heat when Hogan mentioned Bret Hart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted August 10, 2005 Kinda sad that after everything Shawn has said about Hogan, the best they can come up with for him to say is "Bret Hart!" which Shawn had the perfect comeback to and "....hey remember that time you lost your smile and had to sit out for 7 years?" (Which was more like 3 months, shows that he had probably never heard of it before last night) Plus the same lines he's been saying for 2 decades "I do it for the fans brother!" Still, it was fun watching Shawn destroy Hogan on the mic. Hulk even looked a little nervous, stuttering and stammering. How could they keep a character like Shawn's locked up for so many years if he can just turn it on like the flip of a switch and be 1000x more entertaining? I can't wait for Montreal next week so Shawn can really play off the fans.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How did Shawn destroy Hogan on the mic? If it was so good, the fans wouldn't have booed the shit out of him--and he definitely wasn't trying to get heel heat at first. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually Shawn has been getting the best kind of reaction, at least up until Hogan spoke last night. He got not cheers, but fans clapping, as in they respected what he was saying. The idea that he was trying to be the face is stupid, look at the outcome, he superkicked Lawler and than Hogan beat him up and out of the ring, which is what Hogan does to heels. My whole take on Shawn's 'character' right now is that he's a heel but he's not a full fledged heel. He's doing and saying heel stuff but he hasn't turned on his fans. The fans only really started giving him legit heel heat when Hogan mentioned Bret Hart. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But many fans have been saying that he was going to be the face in the feud. I don't think that makes them stupid by any means--just incorrect. You can't turn Hogan heel against HBK, nor can HBK "own" him on the mic in the eyes of the majority of fans. On a side-note, I've never really cared about heels who always bad-mouth the fans to get heat. I much prefer the heels with integrity, ones who actually have a strong motivation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted August 10, 2005 How did Shawn destroy Hogan on the mic? If it was so good, the fans wouldn't have booed the shit out of him--and he definitely wasn't trying to get heel heat at first. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He came out to boos. He's a heel. Yet despite that, he was getting more and more cheers as his promo went on and Hogan had a mixed reaction at times too. When Shawn talked, he was more confident, his words were clearer, he seemed more motivated, his words had a sting to them that Hogan's didn't. Hogan didn't have a comeback to anything he said or for that matter anything he's been saying for weeks. Like I said, he just randomly shouted "Bret Hart!"and Shawn had a beautiful comeback to it. He brought up Shawn losing his smile and screwed it up making it seem like he didn't know what he was talking about. Well then he says "You do this for you but I do it for the hulkamanaics, brother." However, Shawn's been not only saying but explaining for weeks just HOW he does more for the fans than Hogan would ever dream of doing. (Breaking his back wrestling, putting on a match at Battle Creek just like it would be Madison Square Garden while Hogan wouldn't even make it to the show, the best he can give the fans is posing, etc..) His comeback to it? He doesn't have any and probably doesn't care enough to. Fans will still cheer Hogan because he's Hogan though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He came out to boos because he was going to debate the biggest babyface EVER in pro wrestling. He didn't come off as overly heelish in the beginning of the interview. He came off as someone who was genuinely upset and wanted to explain himself to the fans. Hogan more than well held his own against Shawn, and he did a brilliant job of getting heat on him. Despite the accuracy in Shawn's claims, he still comes off as bitter, and the fans will quickly turn on a bitter character. But despite all that, I do like the fact that so many people are getting into this. I like when fans choose sides in a feud despite knowing that everything they're seeing is scripted. When I see people talking about the storyline it's almost like they see this as being some kind of quasi-shoot--which is good. It helps them suspend their disbelief. They actually get angry at one of the wrestlers in the feud (either HBK or Hogan) and praise the other one. It's things like that which keep me watching. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaosrage 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2005 He came out to boos because he was going to debate the biggest babyface EVER in pro wrestling. He didn't come off as overly heelish in the beginning of the interview. He came off as someone who was genuinely upset and wanted to explain himself to the fans. Hogan more than well held his own against Shawn, and he did a brilliant job of getting heat on him. Despite the accuracy in Shawn's claims, he still comes off as bitter, and the fans will quickly turn on a bitter character. Does he? He says he's not jealous because he doesn't desire anything about Hogan's life. He's not mad that Hogan doesn't respect him because he doesn't even consider him to be one of his peers. To me, he just sounded really confident and cocky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted August 10, 2005 He came out to boos because he was going to debate the biggest babyface EVER in pro wrestling. He didn't come off as overly heelish in the beginning of the interview. He came off as someone who was genuinely upset and wanted to explain himself to the fans. Hogan more than well held his own against Shawn, and he did a brilliant job of getting heat on him. Despite the accuracy in Shawn's claims, he still comes off as bitter, and the fans will quickly turn on a bitter character. Does he? He says he's not jealous because he doesn't desire anything about Hogan's life. He's not mad that Hogan doesn't respect him because he doesn't even consider him to be one of his peers. To me, he just sounded really confident and cocky. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How do we know that his character isn't jealous of the unconditional love fans give Hogan, though? In storyline terms, Hogan has done some pretty heelish things but the fans always forgave him. Shawn had to basically completely change aspects about himself to win the acceptance of his peers again. Also factor in that the fans will pretty much support HBK against any foe, yet not Hogan. He can't be happy about that--not after all he's given them. So yes, I do see his character as being bitter. But any normal person would be bitter as well in a similar situation. It's a realistic and understandable response. That's not to say that i sympathize with his actions, though. Hogan is obviously right about Shawn cheap-shoting him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jackie fargo Report post Posted August 10, 2005 After reading a certain newsletter and watching the past 3 weeks it has been evident, HBK,and whoever else, maybe HHH was trying to bury Hogan-they were really putting his 'Face Heat" to test and through it all Hogan got the biggest pop of the night coming out against thier hometown boy- HBK isn't trying to play heel-he's trying to play the "rebel Stone Cold Steve Austin persona"-which isn't playing heel at all- HBK would in this situation be the face easily in any other fued, but because it's Hogan, it just want happen-Shawn will get maybe 10-15% of the crowd on his side during thier match, but it's no different than when Hogan battled the Rock or Hunter, Hunter was a face at the time.. But, it proves HBK is still as unprofessional in the business as he has always been, screwing Bret, losing his smile by not wanting to lay down and his personal demons which have been a problem all these years- He was trying to bury Hogan by saying things you don't say in pro wrestling(entertainment) or any other sport-you don't disrespect your opponent with personal cheap shots.. Hogan is Hogan, he is the most beloved wrestler ever and with that comes bitterness from his opponents that they will never have that affection... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Y2DAYDAY Report post Posted August 10, 2005 They did not do the HBK pants spot that they did with HHH and HBK in Philly. They did do a spot with HBK talking shit on Batista and running in the ring, acting like he was going to attack Dave, then Dave eyeballs him and HBK runs out of the ring. TV didn't do the last segment justice. Hogan was the total face. Some people were cheering some of the HBK stuff but Hogan was total face the whole night. Hogan only got booed because he was helping Eugene and posing with Eugene(and I'll be honest, I didn't hear any boos for Hogan live at the show, NONE) who everyone hated because he was working Kurt Angle. Of course, at the RAW last year in Pittsburgh when Eugene did the run in beating down FLair, Batista, and HHH, he got the biggest pop of that night. I'm not even a Hogan fan but that is what happened. As for Benjamin having to work great matches to get over, having great matches has never, ever drawn money. Personality and show, as HBK said, draw money and the great matches just help those with personality and show that much more, meaning they can make a good draw an even better draw because of always delivering in main events. However, people don't come to care about a guy through great matches. There has to be some kind of character and/or personality there. Chris Benoit is the closest thing to this happening but even until the HHH program, when he came out for a match, he'd get little to no pop usually, then he'd have the fans going crazy. However, the story of a guy working his ass off for 18 years, having great matches night after night, and coming so close but never winning the big one worked for Benoit and even though he is now out of the current top mix, he is still a top star that always gets a big pop when he comes out. Shelton needs that hook that will make the fans care about him. Currently, it doesn't exist. If they find it, he is as good a guy as any to run with. One more thing. Everyone now knows HHH and HBK are working against Hogan. Those 2 are two of the greatest ever at playing the game. Hell, HHH married Stephanie(and I'm not questioning HHH's love for her but still, he married Vince's daughter) and HBK would have married her but she was too young. And HBKwas good enough to have Vince chose him over Bret Hart. However, those 2 combined are not even close to the master, Hogan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaosrage 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2005 But, it proves HBK is still as unprofessional in the business as he has always been, screwing Bret, losing his smile by not wanting to lay down and his personal demons which have been a problem all these years- He was trying to bury Hogan by saying things you don't say in pro wrestling(entertainment) or any other sport-you don't disrespect your opponent with personal cheap shots.. OMG he actually speaks the truth! Damn that man! I liked it when Lawler asked the crowd if they were happy to see Hogan and half of them booed. HBK isn't trying to play heel-he's trying to play the "rebel Stone Cold Steve Austin persona"-which isn't playing heel at all- HBK would in this situation be the face easily in any other fued, That's funny, he's playing the same heel he was in the fall of 97 and didn't seem to be the face in too many situations then. In fact he's probably getting more cheers and applause now against Hogan. Were you watching in 97? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted August 10, 2005 I liked it when Lawler asked the crowd if they were happy to see Hogan and half of them booed.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dude, they chanted his name. The crowd LIKED him on Monday. There's no disputing that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jackie fargo Report post Posted August 10, 2005 But, it proves HBK is still as unprofessional in the business as he has always been, screwing Bret, losing his smile by not wanting to lay down and his personal demons which have been a problem all these years- He was trying to bury Hogan by saying things you don't say in pro wrestling(entertainment) or any other sport-you don't disrespect your opponent with personal cheap shots.. OMG he actually speaks the truth! Damn that man! I liked it when Lawler asked the crowd if they were happy to see Hogan and half of them booed. HBK isn't trying to play heel-he's trying to play the "rebel Stone Cold Steve Austin persona"-which isn't playing heel at all- HBK would in this situation be the face easily in any other fued, That's funny, he's playing the same heel he was in the fall of 97 and didn't seem to be the face in too many situations then. In fact he's probably getting more cheers and applause now against Hogan. Were you watching in 97? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, this isn't the 1997 HBK, he's tweeked his persona so that he can get face heat.. Also, Never did I hear Hogan get booed-even for the Eugene save, he got the biggest pop of the night-I read five arena reports that all stated that Hogan was over huge with the crowd and received the biggest pop of the night-I also read where his merchandise sold out- Sure there were some fans that cheered for HBK-but Hogan being "booed' is a stretch-there may have been a small smattering of boos becuase he lost a small amount of face heat for saving Eugene against Angle.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2005 To be honest, I have no idea what they are trying to accomplish here. The amusing idea behind Michaels burying Hogan is that fans deep down know what he is saying is true....they just don't give a shit. Hogan posing after his match is something that is so ingrained in the wrestling fan's consciousness that no one worries about it. I mean if I saw Hogan and he didn't do those things I'd feel a bit gyped. I personally think they figure the match will draw either way and Shawn is coming up with whatever shit he can think of to kill time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaosrage 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2005 I liked it when Lawler asked the crowd if they were happy to see Hogan and half of them booed.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dude, they chanted his name. The crowd LIKED him on Monday. There's no disputing that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't say they didn't. From the sound of things though, a lot of fans also didn't like him. Anybody who says the crowd was all hogan is a liar. And anybody who says that Shawn is doing everything he can to get face pops and would be a face against anyone else but Hogan is a certifiable lunatic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaosrage 0 Report post Posted August 10, 2005 Yes, this isn't the 1997 HBK, he's tweeked his persona so that he can get face heat.. How so? Also, Never did I hear Hogan get booed-even for the Eugene save, he got the biggest pop of the night-I read five arena reports that all stated that Hogan was over huge with the crowd and received the biggest pop of the night-I also read where his merchandise sold out- Sure there were some fans that cheered for HBK-but Hogan being "booed' is a stretch-there may have been a small smattering of boos becuase he lost a small amount of face heat for saving Eugene against Angle.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When Lawler asked them if they were happy, it was mixed. About half cheered and half booed. And I really doubt that any of the fans had Eugene on their minds while Shawn was talking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted August 10, 2005 And anybody who says that Shawn is doing everything he can to get face pops and would be a face against anyone else but Hogan is a certifiable lunatic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think it makes them a "certifiable lunatic," it just means they have a different opinion. And it's one that shouldn't be dismissed so easily by questioning their sanity. It should be debated--logically. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
