The OAO Raw Thread for 08.08.05

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Tried to watch this show, but I gave up pretty early on and only caught the last interview. It was good, and Hogan bringing up how Shawn screwed Bret was cool, but did he forget about a little event called WrestleMania IX?

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Storyline wise, at least from what I saw, it seemed like Bret gave Hogan the OK to go to the ring to try to get the title while Hogan was more concerned with checking up on Bret.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

I just went back and watched the "Tell Me A Lie" video...which was for his collapse against Owen Hart, I think.

 

As fake as it was, it's still one of my favorite things ever.

[Angle-plex 0]

Tried to watch this show, but I gave up pretty early on and only caught the last interview. It was good, and Hogan bringing up how Shawn screwed Bret was cool, but did he forget about a little event called WrestleMania IX?

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Storyline wise, at least from what I saw, it seemed like Bret gave Hogan the OK to go to the ring to try to get the title while Hogan was more concerned with checking up on Bret.

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But I thought this whole thing was a SHOOT~! No? It seems like sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, which makes the whole angle a mess.

[Toshiaki Koala 0]

completely changing the card for Mania and giving us the worst main event in Mania history.

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As well as one of the best wrestling matches in WWF history, a match that no doubt obliterates the masturbatory ego-fest Shawn would have given us.

[NYU 0]

I don't know what show everyone else was watching. Cena's rap was hardcore.

 

Well listen everybody to what I say

My dad got a clown for my birthday

We'll laugh and have fun acting all cool

Eat hot dogs and jump in the pool

Everybody Party Party

Everybody's gonna rock

Everybody party party

Ends at eight o' clock!

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah as far as WM IX goes, I never really hated Hogan for it. If anything I was glad to be spared a Yokozuna title reign at the time, though of course that happened anyway. I just got the Death of WCW book today and it said there that Hogan thought Bret was too small and didn't wanna job to him, so he jobbed to Yoko instead. Maybe he thought he'd look bad against a younger, quicker Bret?

 

Anyway the backstage politics of WM IX had no serious long term effects on Bret's career since he beat Yokozuna for the title at WM X and things were fine for him, whereas the Montreal thing obviously did.

[Silence 0]

I just want to say, as a Cena fan, I felt myself starting to turn on him after watching that video.

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You turned on him in one-half of a year? Damn, most of us had already turned on Cena after last year's Royal Rumble when he said the infamous "WORD MOTHAFRICKIN' LIIIIIIIIIFE!"

 

BTW, that nursery music-sounding (and looking) rap video did suck. I agree.

 

Next week on Raw:"'Dis is real....recognizin' REAL! Ah grew up on da streets!"

 

*Crowd boos Cena over the fact that he came off NOTHING like a "thug" in his "Right Now" music video*

[Da Maintenance Man 0]

I just want to say, as a Cena fan, I felt myself starting to turn on him after watching that video.

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You turned on him in one-half of a year? Damn, most of us had already turned on Cena after last year's Royal Rumble when he said the infamous "WORD MOTHAFRICKIN' LIIIIIIIIIFE!"

 

BTW, that nursery music-sounding (and looking) rap video did suck. I agree.

 

Next week on Raw:"'Dis is real....recognizin' REAL! Ah grew up on da streets!"

 

*Crowd boos Cena over the fact that he came off NOTHING like a "thug" in his "Right Now" music video*

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That's the problem. He never really claimed to be "from the streets"...even when he was heel. He never claimed he was shot, never claimed he slanged dope, doesn't talk about fuckin' bitches, nothing like that. I didn't know that being shot, sellin yay and/or being "hard" was a requirement to be a rapper.

 

 

And personally, I liked Cena's video. Matched the vibe of the track very well imo. It's supposed to just be a song about kicking back, hangin with your friends/family & enjoying life. The video displayed that well.

[Guest Trecko]

Clearly the "wrestling" aspect is VERY important to all of you, but I honestly, for the life of me, can't understand WHY so many people are bothered by Benjamin being jobbed out. I hate the man, it's not even a question, but he has NO personality at all. NONE. He SUCKS. He's BORING. It's not something that's going to improve, either. You can't TEACH it. And for as good as he may be in the ring, I can't get myself to give a fuck about him, or anyone good in the ring, when I have no reason to give a fuck about the person themself. WHY DO ANY OF YOU!?

[Slickster 0]

You could put over Cena's work ethic by showing a Desire video showcasing how he's always gunned for the top from day one in the WWE. Put over the fact that, though he didn't grow up onthe streets, he's paid his dues and battled his way to the top of the WWE.

[Aero 0]

When has Benjamin actually been given an oppurtunity to show personality? Besides the few times during the Jericho feud in April and talking to Eric Bischoff backstage recently, he doesn't get too many promos.

[jwpeer 0]

Clearly the "wrestling" aspect is VERY important to all of you, but I honestly, for the life of me, can't understand WHY so many people are bothered by Benjamin being jobbed out. I hate the man, it's not even a question, but he has NO personality at all. NONE. He SUCKS. He's BORING. It's not something that's going to improve, either. You can't TEACH it. And for as good as he may be in the ring, I can't get myself to give a fuck about him, or anyone good in the ring, when I have no reason to give a fuck about the person themself. WHY DO ANY OF YOU!?

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Because some of us are entertained by a good wrestling match by someone with tons of athletic talent?

 

If I cared about -personality- (Or fake personality in the case of wrestling) I'd go watch a good movie...I'd go watch Gattaca for the 60th time, for example...I don't expect amazing acting out of these guys, I want to see interesting and exciting athletic choreography, don'ya'kno.

[NYU 0]

Far as the Cena bashing goes...man...just so many labels & stereotypes being thrown around...startin to feel sick...

 

*Leaves thread wishing society will eventually get to the point where what you do will not be critisized based upon the color of your skin*

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This has nothing to do with race.

 

John Cena is portrayed as a guy with actual street credibility. As people like Angle and JBL have pointed out, he's a thug. Grew up in the streets. He ain't gonna be no good. The fans are supposed to love this rebellious image, and his rapper gimmick only further establishes the point. Much like 50 Cent or Eminem, John Cena is supposed to be a legitimately tough person who can back up his actions with his rhymes.

 

This is why the video tonight was such an utter failure. Cena's supposed to be a rebellious thug. Then why the hell are we having him rap to us that we need to call our folks? Why are we watching him party it up with his dad? The most hardcore thing in that video was Cena putting his friend in a Boston crab in the park. Yes, sometimes it could be good for a rapper to put out a light video. But considering this is John Cena's SECOND video -- and we're still trying to build up his image for some kind of mainstream credibility -- it did much more bad than good. The fans still want to get behind the rebellious character. But watching Cena rap about his love for his grandparents is anything but. That's the kind of sappy message that the fans are going to eventually turn against.

 

The video was just awful on so many levels. I'm not even going to mention how poor the actual beat was. Just the video and the lyrics are explanation enough.

[Guest jackie fargo]

Well, the WWE tried everything over the past 2 weeks to bury Hulk Hogan and turn the fans against him and it didn't work..

 

Even having Hogan coming out to save Euguene had "Bury" written all over it-

 

But, Hogan got the biggest Pop of the night by far when he came out against Angle, and even though it was thier hometown boy, they were still cheering Hogan-

 

They also killed Hogans face heat for the face-to-face with HBK, but right away, the crowd was totally in favor of Hogan, easily Hogan had the crowd in his hand during the interview-

 

Hogan's chrasima was in full force tonight and he needed it, because any other wrestler would have been "booed" out of the arena tonight after making the save against Angle..

 

 

Great promo by both guys and Hogan will have the majority of the fans in his corner at "SS", but HBK will always a have a few in the crowd...

 

The attempted bury job of Hogan backfired, will see who gets the 'POP" next week..

[NYU 0]

Yeah, because I'm sure WWE really wanted everybody to turn against HULK HOGAN, of all people.

 

I really hope you're not implying they attempted to do it intentionally. Because that would just be idiotic.

[Aero 0]

Where did you get the idea they were trying to bury Hogan? You mean when he made Angle run away? Or the time he threw HBK out of the ring?

[CanadianChick 0]

When has Benjamin actually been given an oppurtunity to show personality? Besides the few times during the Jericho feud in April and talking to Eric Bischoff backstage recently, he doesn't get too many promos.

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He got to show quite a bit of character during that mini-feud with Triple H, and he succeeded. Here was a guy that was just a heel and had no heel-to-face transition all of a sudden in the ring with the biggest heel of the show. And you know what? With the cockiness of his heel persona, he was over. The fans liked him and got behind him. While he was feuding with Evolution, it was fine. But then WWE decided when he got the IC title that he shouldn't do anything of note, because really, a title holder doing something of significance would just be a silly idea.

 

You're right about the Jericho feud/interation. His facial expressions are one of the better ones in the company, and his reactions to Jericho, while they were feuding and while Jericho was doing that mini phase of "I don't care about wrestling" was excellent. But then he pissed in someone's coffee, lost the IC title to a guy who has no finisher, looked like a loser at every turn in that so-called feud, said something oh-so-clever about Bischoff's breath, and now losing the Chris Masters. Geez whiz, I wonder why no one wants to cheer for this guy?

[Guest Trecko]

Clearly the "wrestling" aspect is VERY important to all of you, but I honestly, for the life of me, can't understand WHY so many people are bothered by Benjamin being jobbed out. I hate the man, it's not even a question, but he has NO personality at all. NONE. He SUCKS. He's BORING. It's not something that's going to improve, either. You can't TEACH it. And for as good as he may be in the ring, I can't get myself to give a fuck about him, or anyone good in the ring, when I have no reason to give a fuck about the person themself. WHY DO ANY OF YOU!?

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Because some of us are entertained by a good wrestling match by someone with tons of athletic talent?

 

If I cared about -personality- (Or fake personality in the case of wrestling) I'd go watch a good movie...I'd go watch Gattaca for the 60th time, for example...I don't expect amazing acting out of these guys, I want to see interesting and exciting athletic choreography, don'ya'kno.

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I'm talking about being able to indentify the character, not amazing acting or movies. A reason to care about why this person is coming in the ring other than "he's a hard worker and gives it his all everynight". Something that sets him apart and makes me actually care about why he's doing what he's doing other than "hey, he's athletic and can work a good match, let's watch him do something." I can't see how people can just get into someone because they're just good in the ring and nothing else. I'm not even asking for something over the top, no bells and whistles; just a reason for me to give a fuck about him and be able to see him as an individual, and not someone that just wrestles.

[cabbageboy 0]

It was stupid as shit to even try to turn the crowd on Hogan in favor of....Michaels??? Hell, a lot of long term WWF fans turned on the company around the time when Michaels first had the title. It was really the only time I EVER liked WCW more (the initial NWO had a place there too). No matter what Shawn does to try and rehab his image he always will remain a total cock in the eyes of quite a few people.

 

Cena has never explicitly talked about being shot in the hood or his hoes, whatever. But these things are implied with his gimmick. If he wants to be taken seriously as a guy with street cred or a rapper, then these things have to be to some extent implied. If not, you get what we saw tonight: a poseur. A Vanilla Ice wannabe, which is the point Christian was making about Cena a couple months ago.

[NYU 0]

It was stupid as shit to even try to turn the crowd on Hogan in favor of....Michaels???  Hell, a lot of long term WWF fans turned on the company around the time when Michaels first had the title.  It was really the only time I EVER liked WCW more (the initial NWO had a place there too).  No matter what Shawn does to try and rehab his image he always will remain a total cock in the eyes of quite a few people.

 

What the hell are you people talking about? Nobody's trying to turn the fans against Hogan, in favor of Michaels. They turned Michaels heel for a reason -- they didn't want the reaction split when the two of them finally met in the ring. They wanted the people solidly behind Hogan. They wanted them solidly against Shawn Michaels. The actions of Shawn Michaels -- from cheapshotting Roddy Piper and Jerry Lawler, to endlessly mocking Hulk Hogan, to talking about how he's the best ever -- smacks of a guy that WWE wants the fans to hate. So why are certain people acting like WWE is trying to turn people against Hogan but failing miserably? I assure you, at this point, they don't want anybody cheering for Shawn Michaels at all. Sure, it might still be happening, but it's not the intended effect. And it's happening less and less each week.

[CanadianChick 0]

I'm talking about being able to indentify the character, not amazing acting or movies. A reason to care about why this person is coming in the ring other than "he's a hard worker and gives it his all everynight" Something that sets him apart and makes me actually care about why he's doing what he's doing other than "hey, he's athletic and can work a good match, let's watch him do something." I can't see how people can just get into someone because they're just good in the ring and nothing else. I'm not even asking for something over the top, no bells and whistles; just a reason for me to give a fuck about him and be able to see him as an individual, and not someone that just wrestles.

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The thing is, he DID have personality when given the chance. His matches against Triple H showed alot of in-ring charisma. Hell, his match with Shawn Michaels, especially the beginning of it, showed a lot of personality. His backstage interaction with Jericho showed personality. When given the chance, he can show personality. The thing is, when the writers are giving him absolute garbage lines about the GM's breath stinking and making him look like a complete loser to a guy that no one gives a crap about (Masters), it's tough for someone to show personality and have the fans care about him. His opponents are so bad that he can't even show personality in the ring, something he has proven on more than one occasion he can do. It's hard to fault the guy for not getting people to get behind him when honestly, he looks like as much of a loser as a Heat jobber looks.

[jwpeer 0]

I'm talking about being able to indentify the character, not amazing acting or movies. A reason to care about why this person is coming in the ring other than "he's a hard worker and gives it his all everynight". Something that sets him apart and makes me actually care about why he's doing what he's doing other than "hey, he's athletic and can work a good match, let's watch him do something." I can't see how people can just get into someone because they're just good in the ring and nothing else. I'm not even asking for something over the top, no bells and whistles; just a reason for me to give a fuck about him and be able to see him as an individual, and not someone that just wrestles.

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I guess it depends on what you're looking for out of your program. I agree he hasn't shon much of a character, but I don't think they've done anything to HELP that problem by giving him terrible lines. You'd think they would go up to him and say "Deliver this line like this, and it'll go over perfectly, people will take you seriously"

 

He definitely needs a serious/edgier gimmick/character because comical doesn't work for someone who really isn't a funny guy.

 

 

I still like him...which is funny because my other fav. guy on raw is ALL character and NO moves yet (Carlito)

 

They should turn Shelton and make a tag team.

[Guest JMA]

Where is SummerSlam this year anyway? Is it a smark heavy place or just your average crowd?

 

Anyway, I'm happy to know that the people who were saying Hogan would be the heel and HBK would be the face were flat-out WRONG. It seemed fairly obvious to me, based on how the first Rock/Hogan match went down.

[Downhome 0]

Yes, first the smarks will start to turn on Cena...and then all of the fans!!!

 

*rubs hands together deviously*

[Guest Trecko]

When has Benjamin actually been given an oppurtunity to show personality? Besides the few times during the Jericho feud in April and talking to Eric Bischoff backstage recently, he doesn't get too many promos.

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To be honest, it's not like he's been thrown out in the ring cutting promos left and right, but in the little that he's done, he just hasn't SHOWN anything. Everything he's done has come acrossed as forced and just flat out NOT natural for him. I don't know if he's just not comfortable on the mic yet, but shit, even when he comes out to the ring, he just looks flat out awkward. The guy's put out some good matches, I'll never take that away from him, and the visual of him running up/down that ladder will probably be the one good thing I'll ever associate with him, but seeing people seem so heartbroken over a guy who's good in the ring, but nothing else, NOT getting a push confuses the shit out of me. Nice athlete, but no character to get fans emotionally involved. Why SHOULD they do anything with him, at least until he shows he can connect with the crowd in some way?

[Guest JMA]

I don't think any character on RAW right now is beyond saving. Not a single one. All it takes is proper booking and crowd manipulation. It's certainly not hard to do.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Summerslam is two weeks away, and I only know 3 matches that are on the card.

 

Will people really buy this just because it's Summerslam, and OMG HOGAN VS HBK?

[Slickster 0]

The entire Hogan-HBK debate, as distilled by DVDVR's Dean Rasmussen.

[Guest *KNK*]

Where is SummerSlam this year anyway? Is it a smark heavy place or just your average crowd?

 

Anyway, I'm happy to know that the people who were saying Hogan would be the heel and HBK would be the face were flat-out WRONG. It seemed fairly obvious to me, based on how the first Rock/Hogan match went down.

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D.C

[Guest jackie fargo]

Have you guys been watching Raw, they have been trying to do a Bury job on Hogan the last two weeks, it was evident by the booking, You never have a face come out against a home town hereo-

 

They also were trying to kill Hogan's face heat for the past two weeks-

 

Hogan got the fans back in tough environment, he was in a no win situation tonight, but he had the fans behind him in the promo and I suspect HBK will get a much worse dose of reality in Montreal-

 

 

The bury job was happening, and the booking of tonights show proved it..

 

they didn't need to set up a match with Angle next week, they could have had Hogan do a run-in for someone else-