The OAO Raw Thread for 08.08.05

[Guest JMA]

Yes, first the smarks will start to turn on Cena...and then all of the fans!!!

 

*rubs hands together deviously*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And, if that does indeed happen (which isn't out of the question), what other strong faces will be on RAW?

 

1: HBK is a heel now, so scratch him out.

2: Benjamin is being jobbed out.

3: Hardy isn't being booked right.

4: RVD is injured.

5: Triple H sucks as a face.

6: Jericho is a heel.

7: Eugene is a joke character.

8: Hogan is only in WWE for limited periods.

9: Kane is MIA, and can't be a number one face.

10: Big Show can't carry the show.

 

If Cena fails, WWE is fucked.

[Guest Trecko]

I'm talking about being able to indentify the character, not amazing acting or movies. A reason to care about why this person is coming in the ring other than "he's a hard worker and gives it his all everynight" Something that sets him apart and makes me actually care about why he's doing what he's doing other than "hey, he's athletic and can work a good match, let's watch him do something." I can't see how people can just get into someone because they're just good in the ring and nothing else. I'm not even asking for something over the top, no bells and whistles; just a reason for me to give a fuck about him and be able to see him as an individual, and not someone that just wrestles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The thing is, he DID have personality when given the chance. His matches against Triple H showed alot of in-ring charisma. Hell, his match with Shawn Michaels, especially the beginning of it, showed a lot of personality. His backstage interaction with Jericho showed personality. When given the chance, he can show personality. The thing is, when the writers are giving him absolute garbage lines about the GM's breath stinking and making him look like a complete loser to a guy that no one gives a crap about (Masters), it's tough for someone to show personality and have the fans care about him. His opponents are so bad that he can't even show personality in the ring, something he has proven on more than one occasion he can do. It's hard to fault the guy for not getting people to get behind him when honestly, he looks like as much of a loser as a Heat jobber looks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I' was never sold on his work with Triple H, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt with that.

 

But as for personality, WHAT personality? I remember the line about Jericho being a bitch, or something with Fozzy, but other than that, there's nothing that he's said or done that's seemed natural for HIMhim. He looks like the Heat jobbers, acts like the Heat jobbers, and just sounds forced whenever he talks. Like he's TRYING to come off as some hardass that he isn't. Maybe it's just his voice, his delivery, I dunno what, but none of it seems right. And obviously he can't do anything about his voice, but shit, get him a mouth piece, then. Do SOMETHING. Hide his flaws.

 

I guess it depends on what you're looking for out of your program. I agree he hasn't shon much of a character, but I don't think they've done anything to HELP that problem by giving him terrible lines. You'd think they would go up to him and say "Deliver this line like this, and it'll go over perfectly, people will take you seriously"

 

He definitely needs a serious/edgier gimmick/character because comical doesn't work for someone who really isn't a funny guy.

 

 

I still like him...which is funny because my other fav. guy on raw is ALL character and NO moves yet (Carlito)

 

They should turn Shelton and make a tag team.

 

I pretty much touched on the lack of opportunity thing, so yeah, it pretty much is true, but still, through what he's shown, it doesn't seem like there's much left for the imagination.

 

for the Carlito love.

 

And they definitely SHOULD put him back in the tag team ranks, if for nothing else, again, to hide his flaws until he's ready. The laid back, smart ass character isn't for him.

[Guest JMA]

Does anyone think that any current faces in WWE could pick up the pieces if Cena somehow fails? I can't think of anyone who could (unless there was a trade).

[WrestlingFan4Ever 0]

I really really hate Hulk Hogan.

[Da Maintenance Man 0]

Far as the Cena bashing goes...man...just so many labels & stereotypes being thrown around...startin to feel sick...

 

*Leaves thread wishing society will eventually get to the point where what you do will not be critisized based upon the color of your skin*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This has nothing to do with race.

 

John Cena is portrayed as a guy with actual street credibility. As people like Angle and JBL have pointed out, he's a thug. Grew up in the streets. He ain't gonna be no good. The fans are supposed to love this rebellious image, and his rapper gimmick only further establishes the point. Much like 50 Cent or Eminem, John Cena is supposed to be a legitimately tough person who can back up his actions with his rhymes.

 

This is why the video tonight was such an utter failure. Cena's supposed to be a rebellious thug. Then why the hell are we having him rap to us that we need to call our folks? Why are we watching him party it up with his dad? The most hardcore thing in that video was Cena putting his friend in a Boston crab in the park. Yes, sometimes it could be good for a rapper to put out a light video. But considering this is John Cena's SECOND video -- and we're still trying to build up his image for some kind of mainstream credibility -- it did much more bad than good. The fans still want to get behind the rebellious character. But watching Cena rap about his love for his grandparents is anything but. That's the kind of sappy message that the fans are going to eventually turn against.

 

The video was just awful on so many levels. I'm not even going to mention how poor the actual beat was. Just the video and the lyrics are explanation enough.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The only reason why they had Angle & JBL call Cena a "thug" is because it's planted in everybody's mind that rapper = thug & that's just a tired ass stereotype/label. I agree about the part of him being rebellious & that is part of the appeal of his character. Matter of fact, he STILL is being portrayed as rebellious despite whatever was in the music video. Did you not see Raw the past few weeks where Cena's been rebelling against Bischoff? I mean, I know it's just the same ol' top face vs. evil authority figure angle but Cena's rebelliousness (is that a word?) was showcased real well. Espescially when he FUed Bischoff, grabbed the mic & sternly said (right to his face as he laid on his back looking up at the lights) "Welcome to the new Raw bitch!" It's stuff like that that showcases that Cena is STILL the rebellious, take-no-shit guy we all love.

 

The only thing that's holding it back is that he's face so some of the edge is taken off but I mean, WWE watering down characters when they turn face is nothing new at all (see: Victoria, Randy Orton).

 

As far as the video goes I'm guessing they went with that particular song as the second single so Cena would be different as opposed to every other rapper out there. Let's face it, if we got a video of Cena walking down the street with a bunch of black guys behind him wearing bandanas on their faces it'd be no different than a G-Unit video.

 

And I really think that the video was basically an extension of what he said at the beginning of his feud w/ JBL leading into WM21, about how he "takes care of those who take care of him" or something to that effect. That's part of what helped the crowd relate & get behind him. I believe Cena's getting most of his face heat from the fact that Cena doesn't really put himself above anybody & puts over how he cares about his fans, puts himself in their shoes (talking about how he "came from the stands" & whatnot), giving all his fans a collective name, going into the crowd & posing with them, etc. It's those somewhat subtle things that lead to why the fans like Cena so much.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Summerslam is two weeks away, and I only know 3 matches that are on the card.

 

Will people really buy this just because it's Summerslam, and OMG HOGAN VS HBK?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Matches for Summerslam:

 

RAW

WWE Title: Cena defends against Jericho

 

Hogan vs. HBK

 

Matt Hardy vs. Edge

 

Kurt Angle vs. Eugene, no time limit

 

SMACKDOWN

World Title, No Holds Barred: Batista defends against JBL

 

Randy Orton vs. The Undertaker

[Guest JMA]

They need to have MNM gain the tag titles back at SummerSlam. And they could throw in a Super-Heroes/Heart Throbs match too.

[WrestlingFan4Ever 0]

Matches for Summerslam:

 

RAW

WWE Title: Cena defends against Jericho

 

Hogan vs. HBK

 

Matt Hardy vs. Edge

 

Kurt Angle vs. Eugene, no time limit

 

SMACKDOWN

World Title, No Holds Barred: Batista defends against JBL

 

Randy Orton vs. The Undertaker

 

Don't forget Rey vs. Eddie.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Matches for Summerslam:

 

RAW

WWE Title: Cena defends against Jericho

 

Hogan vs. HBK

 

Matt Hardy vs. Edge

 

Kurt Angle vs. Eugene, no time limit

 

SMACKDOWN

World Title, No Holds Barred: Batista defends against JBL

 

Randy Orton vs. The Undertaker

 

Don't forget Rey vs. Eddie.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not officially announced yet, hence it's not on the list.

 

Just like with WrestleMania earlier this year. Until it's officially announced, it ain't on the list.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

They REALLY need to unify the tag belts since the tag divisions on both shows suck. The Heart Throbs can't even beat Viscera by themselves SO HOW am I supposed to take them challenging Rosey & Hurricane for the belts seriously? Might as well make this title brand exclusive too, but that's stating the obvious.

 

Another bad RAW this week, but it's not like I'm going to quit watching anyway. Hogan-HBK was good, Edge promo good, and I liked how we got almost more matches than any of the last two weeks combined, but RAW is really becoming a chore to sit through. I can't count how many times I flipped over to the DOLPHINS-BEARS game on ABC in the PRE-SEASON.

[BHK 0]

Can someone explain the "lost smile" reference to me?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow.

 

This is a very significant part in Wrestling history.

 

WM13 was originally booked for Shawn Vs Bret in a rematch. Bret was booked to go over.

 

Shawn refused to do this. So did he bother lay down and move the title over at least?

 

No.

 

literally days before a In Your House ppv, on a special thursday edition of raw...Shawn forfieted the title because he "lost his smile" (meaning didnt have the desire)

 

Clearly it was a chickenshit move from Shawn to avoid doing the job. He got out of it and also claimed a knee injury as well which was pretty much fake.

 

Because of this, they had to put the title on Bret and then put it on Sid the next night.

 

completely changing the card for Mania and giving us the worst main event in Mania history.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

and also giving us one of the greastest matches and piece of sotrytelling that ever took place in a North American ring, so it was kind of like Shawn screwed Shawn with that one.

[skullman80 0]

Well I just returned from Raw...

 

It was a packed house, and I had pretty good seats for getting them the last minute.

 

We booed the shit out of Eugene, I don't know how it came across on tv. We cheered like crazy for Angle. I know at more than one time there was a Eugene sucks chant, Hogan also got a huge pop when he got out.

 

It was a mediocre show minus the first fifteen minutes and the last 20 or so with Matt Hardy wrestling and the HBK--Hogan staredown etc...

 

The best match happened after Raw went off the air. 6 man Tag...JBL/Angle/HBK vs Hogan/Cena/Batista....good fun match, lots of fun spots, and Hogan popped the crowd with the legdrop pin.

 

Biggest Pops:

 

Cena/Hogan(when he first came out)

Angle

Batista(after raw went off)

 

Biggest Heat:

JBL(after raw went off)

Coach

Edge

 

 

It was a fun night overall I forgot how much a live event can be.

[Kardo 0]

I'm talking about being able to indentify the character, not amazing acting or movies. A reason to care about why this person is coming in the ring other than "he's a hard worker and gives it his all everynight" Something that sets him apart and makes me actually care about why he's doing what he's doing other than "hey, he's athletic and can work a good match, let's watch him do something." I can't see how people can just get into someone because they're just good in the ring and nothing else. I'm not even asking for something over the top, no bells and whistles; just a reason for me to give a fuck about him and be able to see him as an individual, and not someone that just wrestles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The thing is, he DID have personality when given the chance. His matches against Triple H showed alot of in-ring charisma. Hell, his match with Shawn Michaels, especially the beginning of it, showed a lot of personality. His backstage interaction with Jericho showed personality. When given the chance, he can show personality. The thing is, when the writers are giving him absolute garbage lines about the GM's breath stinking and making him look like a complete loser to a guy that no one gives a crap about (Masters), it's tough for someone to show personality and have the fans care about him. His opponents are so bad that he can't even show personality in the ring, something he has proven on more than one occasion he can do. It's hard to fault the guy for not getting people to get behind him when honestly, he looks like as much of a loser as a Heat jobber looks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I' was never sold on his work with Triple H, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt with that.

 

But as for personality, WHAT personality? I remember the line about Jericho being a bitch, or something with Fozzy, but other than that, there's nothing that he's said or done that's seemed natural for HIMhim. He looks like the Heat jobbers, acts like the Heat jobbers, and just sounds forced whenever he talks. Like he's TRYING to come off as some hardass that he isn't. Maybe it's just his voice, his delivery, I dunno what, but none of it seems right. And obviously he can't do anything about his voice, but shit, get him a mouth piece, then. Do SOMETHING. Hide his flaws.

 

I guess it depends on what you're looking for out of your program. I agree he hasn't shon much of a character, but I don't think they've done anything to HELP that problem by giving him terrible lines. You'd think they would go up to him and say "Deliver this line like this, and it'll go over perfectly, people will take you seriously"

 

He definitely needs a serious/edgier gimmick/character because comical doesn't work for someone who really isn't a funny guy.

 

 

I still like him...which is funny because my other fav. guy on raw is ALL character and NO moves yet (Carlito)

 

They should turn Shelton and make a tag team.

 

I pretty much touched on the lack of opportunity thing, so yeah, it pretty much is true, but still, through what he's shown, it doesn't seem like there's much left for the imagination.

 

for the Carlito love.

 

And they definitely SHOULD put him back in the tag team ranks, if for nothing else, again, to hide his flaws until he's ready. The laid back, smart ass character isn't for him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I feel that way about the "I am not a joke" promo, I was laughing so hard at Jericho shouting and trying to be a badass.

[Fökai 0]

Waaaaaaaaait a second.  Just realized...

 

Raw in Montreal next week...

 

HBK vs. Hogan

 

Rumors of the special referee...

 

Mention of Bret Hart tonight by Hogan...

 

...will this all add up to what I'm thinking it's going to add up to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If they tease us with an Anthology commercial again I will be PISSED.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The memories, man, the memories...

[CBright7831 0]

What happened during the Anthology commercial?

 

Did they play Bret's music and everyone blew their collective pants?

[JJ Johnson 0]

I think Edge needs to mock the V1 gimmick. Come out and have "Edge Facts"

 

 

 

Edge has better hair than Matt Hardy.

Lita blew Edge for 20 dollars. Edge thinks that's the easiest 20 bucks he's ever made.

[Guest Y2DAYDAY]

Conspiracy theories have that HBK and HHH are the ones behind trying to bury Hogan as a face. HBK never wanted to turn heel at all in the first place but was strong armed into it by Hogan and Vince. And HHH doesn't want Hogan around for his return to TV, probably on the 10/3 USA debut RAW which I saw coming when he left because HHH always knows when to return.

 

The other poster was right. HBK has been calling him a phony, an old broken down man, and a selfish prick. Angle is a big babyface usually in Pittsburgh and they have Hogan make the save. Finally, the face to face with HBK with him "shooting" on Hogan.

 

Well, I was live at the Mellon Arena and I'll tell you what: No one cares about any of that stuff. They are in to Hulk Hogan that much When Hogan was out there, I did not hear one single boo for him. The only boos I heard were when Eugene was cutting his promo and that was because the fans were not buying Eugene as a face against Angle.

 

What I learned watching the show live at the Arena was simply this:

 

Don't play Hulk Hogan. In fact, don't even try. It won't work. He'll always end up with the upper hand. Why do you think HHH got out of dodge so fast? The man is truly the master and no one plays the game like him.

 

If I'm Steve Austin, I stay in retirement and pass on the Mania match.

 

Kurt Angle in Pittsburgh is an interesting beast. He always gets a huge babyface pop, then all of the fans chant "You suck". However, he will get booed against top stars. They booed him in Feb. at No Way Out against Cena and they booed him tonight against Hogan. But any time he is not in there with a top guy, he's the defacto face.

 

And in reference to John Cena, a few times his name would get mentioned, he'd get a few boos, mostly from Men over the age of 18. Not many but a few noticeable boos. Mostly smarts I'd assume. However, each time he came out, he'd get pops matching Hogan and it wasn't all women. It was pretty much everybody in the building, including a lot of the people originally booing him. This means he has that star presence and aura which very few top guys have.In fact, only Hogan, Austin, Rock, and maybe a few others have it.. He'll be on top as a babyface for a long time, then like Rock and Hogan, the fans will tire of the act and turn him heel, leading in all cases to huge money drawing heel runs. Then he'll be so great as a heel it will turn him back face again. And so on.

 

Cena and Hogan are the guys are RAW and that isn't changing. Edge, HBK, and Angle are the heels on RAW.

 

In reference to the Shelton Benjamin post, guy just isn't over.

 

One final live observation. The way I gauge who a top tier star is is based on whether the whole arena gets out of their chairs when a guy makes his entrance.

 

This happened during the live TV show for Angle, Hogan, Cena, and HBK. When Shelton Benjamin came out, no one got off of their ass to cheer him. Some got up for Matt Hardy but not many. Very few got up for Chris Jericho.

 

At the Ironman match TV last summer, people only really got out of their chairs for Evolution and World Champ Benoit.

 

Kane and Big Show were not at TV but they are not top tier guys either way.

 

So on RAW, you have Cena, Hogan, HBK, Angle, and Edge(because he was the only heel on the show besides Bischoff that got real heat, meaning no cheers and that people just hated the guy) as your true top guys. Everyone else is a midcarder. You can add Flair and HHH to this list when they return.

 

Not sure of the point of the last observation, except to let people know who the real stars are(Cena, Hogan, HHH, Flair, HBK, Edge, Angle) and who the wannabee top stars are(internet favorites Jericho, Benjamin, and Hardy).

[Just John 0]

What are the Heat results for this week?

 

I won't bother going on about how bad Raw was, as it looks like that's been covered.

[Guest Y2DAYDAY]

Also, I forgot when it comes to the real stars.

 

For the dark match, they built up the Batista pop perfectly and he got the biggest pop of the night. A true superstar pop.

 

Coach and JBL also got real heat. JBL's was main event level heat though. Coach was midcard heat.

 

I went to the Smackdown PPV in Feb. and the real stars are, based on my proven theory of whether people get off their asses for a guy at the arena when he makes an entrance, samples from Pittsburgh show for RAW last July, NWO PPV Feb and tonights RAW:

 

Smackdown has Batista, JBL, Taker, Orton, Benoit, and Guerrero as real main event stars, though Benoit isn't being portrayed as such now. Mysterio's big push started after Mania so I can't fairly judge if he is on this level but I doubt it.

 

So basically, on both shows, the guys in the top spots are there because they are the stars. Everyone else is a midcarder, even Christian, though from what I hear, he tends to get the "Get out of my seat, this guy is a star reaction) since Mania but I cannot personally vouch for that. When Booker T, another internet darling who is extremely overrated came out at the Feb PPV, people went to buy Nachos and smoke cigarettes.

 

Point of all of this is that they pushed Sheltom as far as they could for a guy not on top, and he didn't get over. They pushed Jericho in 2002 before he ever made it to HHH and Steph, against Rock, with Rock trying to get him over, and it didn't work. Jericho is only over now because of Bischoff having real heat. Jericho gets an upper midcard babyface reaction then turns heel with references to Bischoff(and resorting to cheap heat during the commercial break). That isn't the stuff true top guys are made of. Matt Hardy didn't get a superstar reaction tonight at TV.

 

Some guys are top guys. Some are not. Maybe it is time for people to realize that Jericho, Benjamin, Hardy, Booker T, and Christian all may fall under that idea.

 

I'd say Benjamin is young, and is a great athlete so he has a chance but I think the other 4 are definitely not tippety top players.

 

Chris Masters is a guy that is slowly getting over(slowly), slowly getting better, and has not been buried yet. That right there gives him an advantage over Jericho, Booker T, Christian, and Hardy. I'm not saying Masters is a better talent than those guys but logically, if you have a guy with the look that is getting better and hasn't been buried, isn't it at least worth a shot of trying to get this guy a shot on top down the line to see if it works?

[RedJed 0]

All I gotta say is thats one hell of a dark match main event to make up for what I consider to be one of the most badly booked Raws this year. So it's good to see the live crowd got a good payoff at the end. They must have been planning ahead

[iggymcfly 0]

Well, in all fairness to Jericho, he was a legitimate "superstar", "top guy" in late 2000 and early 2001. If they'd pulled the trigger on the phantom title change over HHH, he would have been right there, and he was still right at that level when he and Benoit were feuding with Austin for the title. It's only his bad booking afterwards that has made people stop caring about him.

 

As for the idea that no one could possibly carry the face load on Raw without Cena, I disagree. If I were booking, I would be in the process of turning Kurt Angle face right now, so that he can be the top guy until RVD's ready. People always think of him as a "heel for life" type, but his mic skills are so good that he can have the crowd eating out of his hand when he wants to.

 

However, I agree that in the current WWE landscape, Cena's not turning heel any time soon. He gets nothing but consistently positive reactions for everything he does, and even in a smark-heavy PPV site, he'll probably get a mixed reaction at worst.

 

Also, has done the same thing they used to do for HHH when they planned on having him as champ for a while, and moved everyone else to the other side of the face/heel divide. When HHH was supposed to be the whole show, it seems like Jericho would be the only other real heel for months and months on end. Well, lo and behold, they build the show around Cena, and all of a sudden, other faces are nowhere else to be found.

 

From the looks of things, I think Cena's going to be Raw's poster boy through to Wrestlemania 22 and possibly even beyond.

[BHK 0]

What are the Heat results for this week?

 

I won't bother going on about how bad Raw was, as it looks like that's been covered.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'm not sure which of these will air, and I'm going from memory so they're sketchy:

 

Venis beat a jobber,

Tomko beat a jobber in about 20 seconds after the match was stopped.

Kerwin White came out on a golf cart and cut a promo.

Rene dupree defeated Matt Stryker

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Yeah, Hulk Hogan is definetly not a guy you can just turn the fans on. Theirs a few select guys in the buisness who will get cheered no matter how the booking is. Hogan is at the top of that list, particuarly at this stage of his career.

 

It doesn't have to be about drawing power or current popularity either. It's about how much the fans respect what that person/character has done. Hogan and Flair right now are guys who would probably get cheered against anybody in the ring cause of their status. I don't get the same feel with Austin or Rock. And ya damn right Hogan would get cheered over Austin.

 

Oddly enough, another guy who I couldn't see the fans turning on is Sting. He, like Hogan, has one of those timeless characters that your always going to remember and respect.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Oddly enough, another guy who I couldn't see the fans turning on is Sting.  He, like Hogan, has one of those timeless characters that your always going to remember and respect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well and he was a face his ENTIRE career (No I don't count that stupid "blink and you miss it" heel turn on Hogan)

[Angle-plex 0]

Clearly the "wrestling" aspect is VERY important to all of you, but I honestly, for the life of me, can't understand WHY so many people are bothered by Benjamin being jobbed out. I hate the man, it's not even a question, but he has NO personality at all. NONE. He SUCKS. He's BORING. It's not something that's going to improve, either. You can't TEACH it. And for as good as he may be in the ring, I can't get myself to give a fuck about him, or anyone good in the ring, when I have no reason to give a fuck about the person themself. WHY DO ANY OF YOU!?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Because some of us are entertained by a good wrestling match by someone with tons of athletic talent?

 

If by "good wrestling" you mean "meaningless, ridiculous spots that build to nothing and are just thrown together in any order" than I can see why you like Shelton Benjamin.

[jwpeer 0]

If by "good wrestling" you mean "meaningless, ridiculous spots that build to nothing and are just thrown together in any order" than I can see why you like Shelton Benjamin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*shrug* It's certainly more enjoyable than watching cena or hogan or chris masters. I don't think there's anything wrong with "meaningless" ridiculous spots. And that's certainly not all SB does in the ring.

[jwpeer 0]

Yeah,  Hulk Hogan is definetly not a guy you can just turn the fans on.  Theirs a few select guys in the buisness who will get cheered no matter how the booking is.  Hogan is at the top of that list, particuarly at this stage of his career.

 

It doesn't have to be about drawing power or current popularity either.  It's about how much the fans respect what that person/character has done.  Hogan and Flair right now are guys who would probably get cheered against anybody in the ring cause of their status.  I don't get the same feel with Austin or Rock.  And ya damn right Hogan would get cheered over Austin. 

 

Oddly enough, another guy who I couldn't see the fans turning on is Sting.  He, like Hogan, has one of those timeless characters that your always going to remember and respect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I don't think there's anything Sting could do for me to NOT mark out for him. I don't know how he would get the fans to turn on him. I'd die if he ever showed up at a WWE show. Not likely though.

[Angle-plex 0]

If by "good wrestling" you mean "meaningless, ridiculous spots that build to nothing and are just thrown together in any order" than I can see why you like Shelton Benjamin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*shrug* It's certainly more enjoyable than watching cena or hogan or chris masters. I don't think there's anything wrong with "meaningless" ridiculous spots. And that's certainly not all SB does in the ring.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What else does Shelton do in the ring besides spots? He seems to bump good, but saying he does anything at this point in his career is insane.

 

Not to mention I HATE the "Whip my foot around so it goes back into your face" spot. HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT!

 

At this point I'd rather watch Hogan or Masters. Masters is much better than expected, and he and his finishers are very credible right now, which helps his matches. Hogan's execution of moves is horrible since he's so old, but at least he can put together and sell a match to the audience.

[jwpeer 0]

I can't stand hogan, but then again I never have enjoyed watching him either.

Masters has DEFINITELY improved, and I don't think he's terrible but he's so horribly fake looking that it gets on my nerves. I can't stand how over-developed he is, mroe so than maybe any other wrestler on the WWE roster...it was the same thing that made me hate Scott Steiner when he got real big. It's worse on Masters cus he has such a ridiculously small head.

 

And his finisher is a full nelson, that's not credible to me...BECAUSE IT'S A FULL NELSON. And I mark out for nearly EVERY submission move, except for his cus it's so ridiculously lame. Now if he was using the torture rack!

 

I think Masters could looke even better in a program with some like Angle or Benoit (If he were still on raw) where he'd be carried more (His best match I can remember was with Tajiri...and only because Tajiri had all the offense and Masters actually sold it pretty damn well)

 

I think Benjamin just needs to be booked to win more, and you might see him use a lot less spots than he has lately (With how little offense he's been getting because of how he's being jobbed out)

[skullman80 0]

One other thing I want to note from last night, I was watching my Tivo'd Raw, and after being their last night, the "You Suck" chants at Angle had to be piped in or loudened for tv, cause there is no way they were that loud at the Arena. I would say it was 85% or more in favor of Angle all the way....