Moms make war look bad.

[Boon 0]

It's weak because simply saying 'he's the one with a lack of commitment because he's the one filing the divorce' IS weak in the extreme. I thought you'd remembered your own argument, but I guess I have to bring it up again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It makes more sense to blame the person seeking the divorce for seeking than the divorce than it does to attack her for his seeking of the divorce.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not when she is the one who has spent weeks driving a wedge between the family by trivializing the loss of their son to push an agenda.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Why the fuck are you all talking about the divorce? It DOESN'T MATTER.

 

Her Anti-Semitic comments along invalidated her cause. You know, Cindy's really to blame. All she had to do was keep her trap shut, mourn her son silently, and America WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED HER. Once she allowed herself to be broadcast and supported by political entities, she lost her credibility and her effectiveness.

 

Thank you

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Thank God we have this guy supporting the troops down there in Crawford. Here he is snatching a sign from some hippy anti-war peacenik.

 

 

The guy in my sig is also showing those lefties what for.

 

If only we could send in this guy, we could really put those pinkos on the run.

 

[Boon 0]

For every fat, idiotic cowboy there is at least one retarded, idiotic hippie.

 

Thanks for contributing to the argument, though.

[Boon 0]

The Cindy Sheehan you don't know

By Cathy Young, Globe Columnist  |  August 22, 2005

 

IT IS ENORMOUSLY difficult to say anything critical about Cindy Sheehan, the Everymom of the antiwar movement, without sounding indecently callous. She is, after all, a woman who has lost her child -- one of humankind's most universal images of grief. Her vigil outside President Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, where she has vowed to stay until the president meets with her and hears her out, has inspired great sympathy. Conservative attempts to make an issue of Sheehan's far-left ties have been cited as an example of how low those abominable right-wingers will to stoop: They'll even slime a grieving mother.

 

I respect Sheehan's pain, no doubt compounded by her mother's stroke last week. Yet Sheehan is not simply expressing her pain and rage, privately or even publicly; when she turns her grief into a political cause, her politics cannot remain off-limits.

 

Sheehan's first and foremost demand is that all American troops be brought home from Iraq immediately. On this scale, irrationality becomes dangerous. Even many of those who opposed the war in Iraq from the start are convinced that a quick pullout would be a disaster -- both for the Iraqis, and for all those who would suffer if Iraq became a fully operational terrorist base. Who will have to give account to the bereaved men and women whose loved ones will be killed as a result?

 

But there's more than that to Sheehan's politics. She is not simply against the war in Iraq (and, as she told talk show host Chris Matthews on CNBC, against the war in Afghanistan as well). She has thrown in her lot with the hardcore Michael Moore left, and this less savory aspect of her crusade has been largely ignored by the respectful media.

 

In her public appearances, Sheehan has not only called Bush ''the biggest terrorist in the world" but suggested that his ''band of neocons" deliberately allowed the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 to happen: ''9/11 was their Pearl Harbor to get their neo-con agenda through," she told a cheering crowd at San Francisco State University last April.

 

That crowd, by the way, was holding a rally in support of Lynne Stewart, a radical New York attorney convicted in 2003 of aiding and abetting a terrorist conspiracy. Sheehan compared Stewart -- who served as a liaison between her incarcerated client, terrorist mastermind Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, and his network outside -- to Atticus Finch, the lawyer in ''To Kill a Mockingbird" who heroically defends a black man falsely accused of raping a white woman in the Jim Crow South.

 

Even more troubling opinions have surfaced in an e-mail Sheehan sent to ABC News last April: ''Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC [Project for the New American Century, a neoconservative think thank] Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel."

 

After some media outlets publicized these comments, which smack of blaming the Jews for drawing the U.S. into the war in Iraq, Sheehan disavowed them: she claims the offending lines were inserted into her email by an ABC News staffer. (The original email has been lost due to an Internet virus attack.) But this latest conspiracy-mongering is hard to believe, especially given the general anti-Israel tenor of Sheehan's public statements: for instance, she railed against the notion that ''it's okay for Israel to have nuclear weapons, but Iran or Syria better not get nuclear weapons."

 

A comment on the left-wing website Daily Kos described Sheehan as ''Terri Schiavo reincarnated." I believe this was meant as a compliment. But actually, the Sheehan circus has a lot in common with the Schiavo circus, none of it good. Both stories represent a triumph -- on different sides of the political divide -- of emotion- and sentiment-driven politics. Schiavo's parents could go off on paranoid, crazy, vitriolic rants, and enjoy a certain immunity by virtue of their unthinkable tragedy. The same is true of Sheehan.

 

Sheehan's grief entitles her to sympathy, which is why I believe the president should have granted her the meeting she wanted. (On pragmatic grounds, it would have also taken the sting out of Sheehan's protest.) But her loss does not give her, as New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd has claimed, an ''absolute" moral authority -- any more than it would if her reaction to her son's death was to demand a US nuclear strike against the insurgents.

 

Good ol' Boston Globe, coming through in the clutch.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

For every fat, idiotic cowboy there is at least one retarded, idiotic hippie.

 

Thanks for contributing to the argument, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did you know she has ties to *gasp* MOVEON.ORG!

 

*shudders*

 

Is that better?

[Boon 0]

For every fat, idiotic cowboy there is at least one retarded, idiotic hippie.

 

Thanks for contributing to the argument, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did you know she has ties to *gasp* MOVEON.ORG!

 

*shudders*

 

Is that better?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't decide if I should laugh or cry over the fact that you don't see a problem with moveon.org.

[Justice 0]

For every fat, idiotic cowboy there is at least one retarded, idiotic hippie.

 

Thanks for contributing to the argument, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did you know she has ties to *gasp* MOVEON.ORG!

 

*shudders*

 

Is that better?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey, that was MY LINE, damn it!

 

Stick to posting cowboys harrassing liberals in suits.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

For every fat, idiotic cowboy there is at least one retarded, idiotic hippie.

 

Thanks for contributing to the argument, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did you know she has ties to *gasp* MOVEON.ORG!

 

*shudders*

 

Is that better?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't decide if I should laugh or cry over the fact that you don't see a problem with moveon.org.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

If you cry it makes you an anti-semite.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

If you cry it makes you an anti-semite.

 

Haha!

 

Boon, moveon.org is a liberal PAC. Obviously, you wouldn't like it. I don't like the involvement of PACs and 527s in elections and would like further electoral finance reform, but what are you gonna do? Do you have a problem with moveon in general or all PAC/527s?

 

Also, I find the Cindy Sheehan bickering and the whole media spotlight on her annoying. However, I do feel like the questions she has raised to Bush, "Why are we in Iraq? Why did my son die?"--are pertinent. I find it especially ironic that conservatives decry the media attention that she gets and then they won't shut up about her.

 

And Justice, this link is for you.

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN

[SuperJerk 0]

In her public appearances, Sheehan has not only called Bush ''the biggest terrorist in the world" but suggested that his ''band of neocons" deliberately allowed the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 to happen: ''9/11 was their Pearl Harbor to get their neo-con agenda through," she told a cheering crowd at San Francisco State University last April.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbor is the same as saying they allowed 9/11 to happen.

 

I'll reiterate my stance: I don't really agree with the woman (Bush is NOT a terrorist), but I won't stand by and let every attack on her go unquestioned.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Damn this Not Sorry site is a goldmine. What's up with all the guns?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you read the fine print? "Kill liberals and gays...Europeans dead" I think.

 

 

 

[Boon 0]

In her public appearances, Sheehan has not only called Bush ''the biggest terrorist in the world" but suggested that his ''band of neocons" deliberately allowed the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 to happen: ''9/11 was their Pearl Harbor to get their neo-con agenda through," she told a cheering crowd at San Francisco State University last April.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbor is the same as saying they allowed 9/11 to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Some theorists speculate that Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor days before the attack.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Holy crap, those people are frightening.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Smitty. You rule for those pics.

[SuperJerk 0]

In her public appearances, Sheehan has not only called Bush ''the biggest terrorist in the world" but suggested that his ''band of neocons" deliberately allowed the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 to happen: ''9/11 was their Pearl Harbor to get their neo-con agenda through," she told a cheering crowd at San Francisco State University last April.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbor is the same as saying they allowed 9/11 to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Some theorists speculate that Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor days before the attack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But does Cindy Sheehan think that? That's the only way you could get that interpretation.

 

If she does, fuck her. Nobody badmouths FDR on my watch!

[Boon 0]

In her public appearances, Sheehan has not only called Bush ''the biggest terrorist in the world" but suggested that his ''band of neocons" deliberately allowed the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 to happen: ''9/11 was their Pearl Harbor to get their neo-con agenda through," she told a cheering crowd at San Francisco State University last April.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbor is the same as saying they allowed 9/11 to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Some theorists speculate that Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor days before the attack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But does Cindy Sheehan think that? That's the only way you could get that interpretation.

 

If she does, fuck her. Nobody badmouths FDR on my watch!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Reading between the lines, I think it's pretty clear that's how she feels about it.

[Vampiro69 0]

In her public appearances, Sheehan has not only called Bush ''the biggest terrorist in the world" but suggested that his ''band of neocons" deliberately allowed the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 to happen: ''9/11 was their Pearl Harbor to get their neo-con agenda through," she told a cheering crowd at San Francisco State University last April.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbor is the same as saying they allowed 9/11 to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Some theorists speculate that Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor days before the attack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But does Cindy Sheehan think that? That's the only way you could get that interpretation.

 

If she does, fuck her. Nobody badmouths FDR on my watch!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

last year at a big history symposium in Kansas there were several students that wrote papers that were pretty darn convincing that FDR knew of the attacks in advance. I have never agreed with those students in class before, but there are quite a few conspiracy theories about this topic.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Bush, in describing Cindy Sheehan, stated, "She expressed her opinion. I disagree with it."

 

This puts Cindy Sheehan in the company of military experts who told Bush things he didn't want to hear prior to the attack on Iraq. Experts who turned out to be correct.

[Justice 0]

Bush, in describing Cindy Sheehan, stated, "She expressed her opinion. I disagree with it."

 

This puts Cindy Sheehan in the company of military experts who told Bush things he didn't want to hear prior to the attack on Iraq. Experts who turned out to be correct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, if we are going for everyone who agrees with what she's doing...

 

Uh, there weren't too many experts who said 'Don't go into Iraq', either. There were some who (Rightly) said that we should have more troops, more force, and concentrate on rebuilding, but the military as a whole said Iraq was okay.

 

So, uh, you're still a moron. Good for you.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Bush, in describing Cindy Sheehan, stated, "She expressed her opinion. I disagree with it."

 

This puts Cindy Sheehan in the company of military experts who told Bush things he didn't want to hear prior to the attack on Iraq. Experts who turned out to be correct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, if we are going for everyone who agrees with what she's doing...

 

Uh, there weren't too many experts who said 'Don't go into Iraq', either. There were some who (Rightly) said that we should have more troops, more force, and concentrate on rebuilding, but the military as a whole said Iraq was okay.

 

So, uh, you're still a moron. Good for you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

And MORE petty name calling from you. Good for YOU for keeping your non-thoughts out there for me to enjoy. Thanks for the link. I go there all the time now. ALL the time, cuz I and people like me are all about that. I'm still waiting for Charlie Manson or maybe some old Nazis to rear their heads outta South America to throw in THEIR support for Sheehan so you and MikeSC can finally bust a nut.

[Justice 0]

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA MIKETHESC LA LA LA LA LA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Okay then. Like your last comment was in any way 'thought-provoking'. Anyways, I was showing how dumb it was to try and say "And look who agrees with her!", especially when the statement you put forth was fairly untrue.

 

Perhaps if you could, maybe put forth some new evidence which furthers her case as everyone who has ever come into contact with her further distances themselves away from her current actions, we might have, you know, an honest argument. Something like Y2Jerk was actually doing.

 

But considering who this is, I'm expecting way too much.

Edited August 26, 2005 by Justice

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

and waste anymore effort on YOU? please. I could lace this thread with links galore ala a certain somebody, but why bother with the brainwashed? besides, those who were and were not on the bandwagon, (CIA???FBI????) are well documented by this point. you could always check some older threads. or maybe you could post just one more time where you say something like "this is YOU we are talking about" which of course we are not. but this IS YOU we are talking about so la la la indeed.

[Justice 0]

Just because I know you are going to post your standard reply soon, I'm gonna get this response out now:

 

What is Sheehan's argument right now?

 

A complete and utter pullout of Iraq. Just about no one agrees with that outside of maybe C-Bacon and yourself. Congrats! Actually, I take back C-Bacon. I think he conceded that point a little while back.

 

What's her current popularity?

 

Not that good. She's not making this huge movement around her to support her. She's actually riled up more people against her. Rasmussen right now is showing that 38% of the people disagree with her, while 35% do. The remaining 30 or so percent just don't give a damn about her. Whoops!

 

What is her significance?

 

Little to none after she's become more of a radical political pundit than a mourning mother. Going around, inciting mobs is not mourning. That's not trying to remember your son, that's trying to martyr yourself. Her husband has now filed to divorce her after this action. Like SJ said, had she just quietly had a vigil, remained as non-political as possible, and just shut her damned mouth, she wouldn't get heat like she is now. She'd look like, well, an honest-to-God mourner, rather than someone who wants her face on the evening news as much as possible. She's opened her mouth, and she's hurt herself like Howard Dean did. Now all she is is another idiot with a microphone, nothing more.

 

But again, you haven't put forth anything useful in this abortion of a thread anyways. You've literally become the new INXS of the CE folder. So I'm gone. Hopefully this thread'll die off soon now.

Edited August 26, 2005 by Justice

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Just because I know you are going to post your standard reply soon, I'm gonna get this response out now:

 

What is Sheehan's argument right now?

 

A complete and utter pullout of Iraq. Just about no one agrees with that outside of maybe C-Bacon and yourself. Congrats! Actually, I take back C-Bacon. I think he conceded that point a little while back.

 

What's her current popularity?

 

Not that good. She's not making this huge movement around her to support her. She's actually riled up more people against her. Rasmussen right now is showing that 38% of the people disagree with her, while 35% do. The remaining 30 or so percent just don't give a damn about her. Whoops!

 

What is her significance?

 

Little to none after she's become more of a radical political pundit than a mourning mother. Going around, inciting mobs is not mourning. That's not trying to remember your son, that's trying to martyr yourself. Her husband has now filed to divorce her after this action. Like SJ said, had she just quietly had a vigil, remained as non-political as possible, and just shut her damned mouth, she wouldn't get heat like she is now. She'd look like, well, an honest-to-God mourner, rather than someone who wants her face on the evening news as much as possible. She's opened her mouth, and she's hurt herself like Howard Dean did. Now all she is is another idiot with a microphone, nothing more.

 

But again, you haven't put forth anything useful in this abortion of a thread anyways. You've literally become the new INXS of the CE folder. So I'm gone. Hopefully this thread'll die off soon now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Regardless of your narrow view of this woman, and what she is doing, it is very important to DISCUSS this war! Like it or not sweetheart, alot of people want out of this war they feel we never should have got involved in. THAT is what they think. Try and undermine it all you like. But "shutting your damn mouth" has never gotten anything done. EVER. There need to be MORE civic minded people with the guts and will to stick their necks out and say what they feel needs to be said. Who gives a shit about heat? What YOU are saying is EVERYBODY on the left should just shut up so you and the "right minded" types can go along and have their way. You just can't deal with all that conversation. So it's shut up or we'll accuse you of cavorting with the enemy. TREASON! TRAITOR! Anti-Bush = Anti-American! Anti-SEMITE! These are the kinds of conversations that we DO NOT need! But obviously the right wing can't deal with it so baseless accusations are the soup of the day.

 

 

I have no idea what you are talking about as it concerns C-Bacon. But *I* also do NOT think we CAN pull even if we tried to! Afterall, when you are neckdeep in shit its really hard to swim home. But it is the POLICY that is the issue here. The US Government and its agencies have been fucking around over there (the Middle East, Central America, South America) for too many years. Yet if they HAD NOT... we wouldn't be where we are today. Change these policies and we change ourselves and the rest of the world for the better. Period. YOU can't fuck with that and THAT is why you are "gone".

 

Thankfully, people like her are standing up and making noise. She is far braver than you or I hiding behind a keyboard talking shit. So threatend by her is the right its almost like she were running for office somewhere considering the mudslinging (and WHERE oh WHERE is the "left wing media" to protect her???) All I ever hear about is how much of an asshole she is for standing up in her sons name or her getting served a divorce etc etc etc. Whatever it takes to distract from the issue of POLICY! Oh, well I suppose. Its the price that's paid to flex a little freedom.

 

Keep in mind if you REALLY thought this thread was THAT much of an abortion... well you certainly played your part by joining in. Maybe next time you can keep your damn mouth shut. Yanno, to help average things out?

[Art Sandusky 0]

Yikes, now she's saying the country isn't worth dying for. Holy fuck.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

By Joseph Wilson

 

Friday 26 August 2005

12:31 PM

 

Statement by Former Ambassador Joseph Wilson

 

The Bush White House and its right wing allies are responding to Cindy Sheehan and the military families’ vigil in Central Texas in the same way that they always respond to bad news –by unleashing personal attacks and smears against her.

 

This White House never wants an open public discussion, and it certainly never wants to be told that it is wrong. It always tries to change the message by attacking the messenger.

 

They did it with former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill when he wrote a book that suggested that the White House used 9/11 as an excuse to invade Iraq.

 

They did it when Richard Clarke revealed that the White House ignored warnings about Bin Laden.

 

They did it in a most despicable way, as everybody now knows, when they revealed my wife’s identity as a CIA employee because they were unhappy when I spoke the truth and told the American people that President Bush’s claim was false concerning Niger’s giving uranium to Iraq, part of the trumped up rationale for our invasion.

 

So no one should be surprised that when these mothers and families who have lost loved ones in Iraq step up to question the President, the White House responds not with the respect due them, but with hateful attacks and smears. But enough is enough. Ours is a government of the people, by the people and for the people; and the people in the name of Cindy Sheehan are right in demanding accountability for the tragedy foisted upon our great nation by this administration. To smear her rather than hear her is un-American and undemocratic.

 

Joseph C. Wilson IV was U.S. Ambassador to Gabon from 1992-1995 and is an international business consultant.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I'm with Justice, this woman has come unhinged.

 

One of the groupthink mags (Weekly Standard?) had some quotables that didn't seem to be out of context wherein she was going on about how her son was killed by freedom fighters and her son was being forced to oppress people.

 

You know, you'd think these issues would have come up LAST YEAR when the son RE-ENLISTED and Iraq was the same mess it is right now, except without any ideas for a constitution, let alone hope they'll get one done.

 

But whatever. People like this are why I'm losing interest in all left VS right issues that I don't really have any personal reasons to have emotions in.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

I'm with Justice, this woman has come unhinged.

 

One of the groupthink mags (Weekly Standard?) had some quotables that didn't seem to be out of context wherein she was going on about how her son was killed by freedom fighters and her son was being forced to oppress people.

 

You know, you'd think these issues would have come up LAST YEAR when the son RE-ENLISTED and Iraq was the same mess it is right now, except without any ideas for a constitution, let alone hope they'll get one done.

 

But whatever. People like this are why I'm losing interest in all left VS right issues that I don't really have any personal reasons to have emotions in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No one could blame you for that. Crappy story after crappy story shoved down our throats would tire even the most dedicated newshound.

[Vampiro69 0]

I think that Arkham Asylum is getting a room ready for Miss Sheehan.