Hilarious Note From This Week's Observer.....

[SuperJerk 0]

Hulk Hogan did his job while Chris Benoit, Jim Ross, and Roddy Piper didn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's no way that can possibly be considered part of their jobs. I'd like to see the place in Benoit, Ross, and Piper's contracts it says "employee is contractually obligated to publicly bad-mouth individuals when directed to by management".

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'll never be Jerk's biggest fan on this board but he's spot-on here.

[4hartthreat 0]

I love Bret Hart in the ring but seriously, he can go fuck himself.  Bottom line, though Hogan has no right to say shit cause he's a backstabbing prick, the fact is that Bret Hart should have jobbed on his way out of the WWE to whoever Vince wanted him too.  It doesn't matter if he hated Michaels or didn't want to job to him again because Michaels refused to job to Bret or if Michaels was a dick to him.  It's a time honored tradition to job on your way out of the company.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Oh good God, just shut up. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. How many damn times do the "facts surrounding Montreal" have to be discussed before everyone actually knows them?! I mean seriously, how can ANYONE on the net that is a wrestling fan NOT know this stuff? Bret trying to get out of jobbing on his way out of the company? Wtf, seriously? The man bent over backwards to do everything he could to make sure he DID leave the company properly and lose the title in the ring, but Vince would have none of that and screwed over one of the most loyal and hardest workers he ever had.

[Guest JMA]

I love Bret Hart in the ring but seriously, he can go fuck himself.  Bottom line, though Hogan has no right to say shit cause he's a backstabbing prick, the fact is that Bret Hart should have jobbed on his way out of the WWE to whoever Vince wanted him too.  It doesn't matter if he hated Michaels or didn't want to job to him again because Michaels refused to job to Bret or if Michaels was a dick to him.  It's a time honored tradition to job on your way out of the company.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Oh good God, just shut up. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. How many damn times do the "facts surrounding Montreal" have to be discussed before everyone actually knows them?! I mean seriously, how can ANYONE on the net that is a wrestling fan NOT know this stuff? Bret trying to get out of jobbing on his way out of the company? Wtf, seriously? The man bent over backwards to do everything he could to make sure he DID leave the company properly and lose the title in the ring, but Vince would have none of that and screwed over one of the most loyal and hardest workers he ever had.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's best to just put people who don't know what they're talking about on your Ignore List--you'll feel much better. It's really much easier than trying to explain things to them. Why even waste the energy?

[The Buzz 0]

A DVD made you stop watching and not Triple H fucking a dead corpse?

 

No, I stopped watching around late 2001 as I started a job that caused me to miss Raw and Smackdown. I just recently around 2004 started watching it again. Then I discovered ROH and with the combination of realizing WWE was full of pricks, I stopped watching.

[WrestlingFan4Ever 0]

It's best to just put people who don't know what they're talking about on your Ignore List--you'll feel much better. It's really much easier than trying to explain things to them. Why even waste the energy?

 

What I said was just my personal opinion. No need to ignore me because I have a different opinion. I wasn't calling out anybody or anything. I know I have an unpopular and some may say stupid stance on the situation but that's just me. So no need to put me on ignore.

 

No, I stopped watching around late 2001 as I started a job that caused me to miss Raw and Smackdown. I just recently around 2004 started watching it again. Then I discovered ROH and with the combination of realizing WWE was full of pricks, I stopped watching.

 

Yeah I myself have been getting into ROH a lot recently. I wasn't trying to be a dick earlier, just making a funny comment.

[cabbageboy 0]

I can see both sides of this situation. Do I think Bret should have just jobbed in Montreal? Sure. He was leaving and no one would have given one single bit of shit about it, particularly if he went on Nitro and did an interview saying he basically had an offer from WCW and could have cared less about the match. As far as him jobbing in Canada, hell Bulldog jobbed to Michaels in England while dedicating the match to his dying sister (I trashed Michaels in an Old School thread about this disgrace)....and this wasn't even Bulldog's last night or anything.

 

I believe Bret was mostly disgusted with the idea of jobbing to Shawn, so really Vince could have just done a deal like SS 99 and added a 3rd guy in (UT, Patriot, Shamrock, whoever) and had that guy win. Then you could just job the guy the next night on Raw to Shawn, or hold off till the DX PPV in Dec (which was Michaels/Shamrock anyway). It still would lead to the same Michaels/Austin WM main event, but it wouldn't make Vince the evil heel Austin needed. So thus:

 

Vince HAD to screw Bret over, or at least make it appear that way. It was shocking, it created interest in the fed, and it made Vince the most evil bastard in wrestling. In fact a part of me down deep wonders if it was an angle since most everyone came out of it good:

 

--Bret got a huge deal with WCW making 3 million a year.

--Vince created huge interest in his shows, got Shawn over more as a heel in the short term, and himself over as a heel in the long term.

[4hartthreat 0]

I can see both sides of this situation.  Do I think Bret should have just jobbed in Montreal?  Sure.  He was leaving and no one would have given one single bit of shit about it, particularly if he went on Nitro and did an interview saying he basically had an offer from WCW and could have cared less about the match.  As far as him jobbing in Canada, hell Bulldog jobbed to Michaels in England while dedicating the match to his dying sister (I trashed Michaels in an Old School thread about this disgrace)....and this wasn't even Bulldog's last night or anything.

 

I believe Bret was mostly disgusted with the idea of jobbing to Shawn, so really Vince could have just done a deal like SS 99 and added a 3rd guy in (UT, Patriot, Shamrock, whoever) and had that guy win.  Then you could just job the guy the next night on Raw to Shawn, or hold off till the DX PPV in Dec (which was Michaels/Shamrock anyway).  It still would lead to the same Michaels/Austin WM main event, but it wouldn't make Vince the evil heel Austin needed.  So thus:

 

Vince HAD to screw Bret over, or at least make it appear that way.  It was shocking, it created interest in the fed, and it made Vince the most evil bastard in wrestling.  In fact a part of me down deep wonders if it was an angle since most everyone came out of it good:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I agree that in the end screwing Bret certainly wound up working for Vince. The problem with the way you are putting it is that you make it sound like it was all a plan by Vince from the get go. Vince did not plan on using this to springboard himself into the role of #1 heel in the company. That just happened to be an unforseen benefit arising from the situation. Vince probably even thought that people would see him as a hero. As someone who fought back against an ungrateful bastard running off to the competition. Instead he became a hated man and he and the company just ran with it.

[Angle-plex 0]

As far as him jobbing in Canada, hell Bulldog jobbed to Michaels in England while dedicating the match to his dying sister (I trashed Michaels in an Old School thread about this disgrace)....and this wasn't even Bulldog's last night or anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And could Bulldog have main evented a PPV in England after dissapointing everyone and letting everyone down after One Night Only? Bret assumed that WCW was trying to take over the Canadian market, and in an era where main eventers were more protected, Hart (playing a Canadian hero in an angle about Canada vs USA) jobbing and shouldn't have happend. Bret jobbing in Canada (especially to Michaels) would had hurt his ability to draw there because he would have let everyone down.

 

I think that's the prime reason Vince wanted Bret to job; so that WCW (who was already ruling the USA) couldn't take over Canada too, a market WWF was still ahead in. It really was a shitty situation for everyone involved, and what happend in the end probably hurt everyone less than anything else that could have been done.

[Hektik 0]

Why is everyone under the impression that Survivor Series was Bret's last match. His contract wasn't up until the end of the month and even then he could have gotten an extension from Bischoff to drop the belt at the December IYH. He had a whole month after the SS to drop the belt.

[claydude14 0]

Here's a huge What If?

What if Survivor Series 97 wasn't booked in Montreal (or any part of Canada?)

[Guest JMA]

Why is everyone under the impression that Survivor Series was Bret's last match. His contract wasn't up until the end of the month and even then he could have gotten an extension from Bischoff to drop the belt at the December IYH.  He had a whole month after the SS to drop the belt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's probably due to the myth that Bret was going to leave WWF with the title and show up on Nitro with it. Obviously this wasn't going to happen, but it did take some of the heat off of Vince.

[Vyce 0]

I wonder if this is how WWE plans to get old stars to do business with them again: "Join us or we'll mock your entire legacy and sell it to the masses."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course not - after all, most of them are tempted back by money alone (Roddy Piper, Sable, Eric Bischoff, etc).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, Meltzer has stated that the policy now is one of blackmail. And it goes exactly as JMA put it - join us, work with us on this DVD set, be in our HoF, etc., because if you don't, you'll be mocked and shit upon.

[Guest JMA]

I wonder if this is how WWE plans to get old stars to do business with them again: "Join us or we'll mock your entire legacy and sell it to the masses."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course not - after all, most of them are tempted back by money alone (Roddy Piper, Sable, Eric Bischoff, etc).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, Meltzer has stated that the policy now is one of blackmail. And it goes exactly as JMA put it - join us, work with us on this DVD set, be in our HoF, etc., because if you don't, you'll be mocked and shit upon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just thinking about it is enough to make a person sick. But what's really depressing is that there's no way to stop them.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Why is everyone under the impression that Survivor Series was Bret's last match. His contract wasn't up until the end of the month and even then he could have gotten an extension from Bischoff to drop the belt at the December IYH.  He had a whole month after the SS to drop the belt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's probably due to the myth that Bret was going to leave WWF with the title and show up on Nitro with it. Obviously this wasn't going to happen, but it did take some of the heat off of Vince.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How was this obvious? Who's to say that Bischoff wouldn't have thrown a few million at Hart go persuade him to come to WCW with the WWE belt and trash it?

 

I say it without a second of doubt: I agree with what VKM did. He made absolutely sure that his company wasn't going to get fucked over.

[Black Lushus 0]

I just can't see Bret Hart doing that, though...sure it's not obvious, ANYTHING can happen, but I just can't see Hart doing some shit like that...it sounded like his departure, at first, was a mutual thing, no hard feelings, that's business but Vince got all paranoid and shit and did what he did...

[Angle-plex 0]

Who's to say that Bischoff wouldn't have thrown a few million at Hart go persuade him to come to WCW with the WWE belt and trash it? 

 

I say it without a second of doubt: I agree with what VKM did.  He made absolutely sure that his company wasn't going to get fucked over.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Legally, Bret couldn't show up with the WWF belt on WCW television, and if he did, WWF could have sued and made a shit load of money.

 

If Hogan was leaving WWF after Wrestlemania VII to go to WCW, should he have agreed to job the belt to Slaughter in the main event - knowing that if he did, his popularity in the States would plummet?

[cabbageboy 0]

Well I think it was mainly that Survivor Series was the last really big show of the year so it was the only logical place for Bret to drop the title. Yeah he could have dropped it on Raw in the weeks after it, but why give him all that leeway?

 

I mean yeah Bret had another month left on his contract but that's like saying Taz could have wrestled in ECW after N2R 99 since he had another month left.

 

As I said, Bret seriously overestimated doing 1 job. Yes the Bulldog job to Michaels would hurt Davey Boy's main event potential in England, but that's due to it not really being his last match in the company. If Bret simply jobbed to Michaels at S. Series and showed up on Nitro a few weeks later, would anyone care about the meaningless loss? Would that seriously damage his drawing ability in Canada? I doubt it.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Legally, Bret couldn't show up with the WWF belt on WCW television, and if he did, WWF could have sued and made a shit load of money.

 

If Hogan was leaving WWF after Wrestlemania VII to go to WCW, should he have agreed to job the belt to Slaughter in the main event - knowing that if he did, his popularity in the States would plummet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why could Madusa dump the women's belt on TV legally?

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

They fired her/let her contract expire without removing it from her, implying that it had no value.

[nl5xsk1 0]

So Hart could have shown up on WCW TV, just as long as he didn't bring the belt?

 

/actual question, not an accusation or an argument. I don't really know enough about the legalities to know what he can or can't do

[Hektik 0]

From Dave Meltzer:

 

The idea of Bret going to WCW with the belt is a made up story that Vince concocted because he had no other answer for the locker room in the wake of what happened. And it made a great story, because it allowed a lot of people to justify his actions without looking into what the real story was.

 

The best thing for Vince possible was for Bret to show up on WCW wearing his belt. Because of the 1991 lawsuit regarding who owns the belt and appearing on rival television, Vince would have made an incredible amount of money in a lawsuit against Turner if they would have put the WWF belt on their TV show (don't bring up Madusa, totally different legal situation because they fired her, and by firing her without losing the belt, it killed their case that there was any significant value to that belt). Bischoff knew full well he'd be toast if he put the company at risk like that on a point that it was WCW that established in winning a court case against WWF. No chance of it happening and everyone knew it. But the wrestlers didn't, so Vince was able to use that line to quell an uprising.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Wow. Good answer, Hektik.

[Jericholic82 0]

its sad, but hogan is right, however it coming from him is completely hypocritical.

[WrestlingFan4Ever 0]

Isn't Meltzer really good friends with Hart? I would think he is slighlty biased. And Bret's whole thing about not wanting to job in Canada because he is a national hero I never understood. Does that mean an American wrestler can refuse to job to a non-American on American soil?

[snuffbox 0]

Here's a huge What If?

What if Survivor Series 97 wasn't booked in Montreal (or any part of Canada?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bret, presumably, would have done the job.

[Promoter 0]

its sad, but hogan is right, however it coming from him is completely hypocritical.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I think someone explained this already. Vince might have seen it as a way to kill some of Bret's appeal when he left for wcw to popularize that brand in Canada. I see why Bret would balk about this especially when there was a racist angle that everyone forgets that surrounded DX/Hart Foundation at the time. I say both Vince and Hart needed to get over themselves at that time. In hindsight, if Vince was so protective of his main title why did he have the big gold belt become the major title in the last couple of years? Probably doesn't have anything to do with it, but it sure seems Flair's belt got better treatment than the Bret belt until recently.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

its sad, but hogan is right, however it coming from him is completely hypocritical.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In hindsight, if Vince was so protective of his main title why did he have the big gold belt become the major title in the last couple of years? Probably doesn't have anything to do with it, but it sure seems Flair's belt got better treatment than the Bret belt until recently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to mention he had no problem with Austin refusing to job the IC belt to Rocky the month later.

 

The treatment of Flair's belt probably has more to do with Hunter than anything else.

[Promoter 0]

It's true it probably has to do with HHH, but the way Vince put pride into the "time honoured tradition" of his belt you would think nothing would stand in the way in keeping with tradition of having the wwe title the numero uno point blank. I mean they sure buried Booker T upon arrival with the big goldy didn't they?

[Guest JMA]

From Dave Meltzer:

 

The idea of Bret going to WCW with the belt is a made up story that Vince concocted because he had no other answer for the locker room in the wake of what happened. And it made a great story, because it allowed a lot of people to justify his actions without looking into what the real story was.

 

The best thing for Vince possible was for Bret to show up on WCW wearing his belt. Because of the 1991 lawsuit regarding who owns the belt and appearing on rival television, Vince would have made an incredible amount of money in a lawsuit against Turner if they would have put the WWF belt on their TV show (don't bring up Madusa, totally different legal situation because they fired her, and by firing her without losing the belt, it killed their case that there was any significant value to that belt). Bischoff knew full well he'd be toast if he put the company at risk like that on a point that it was WCW that established in winning a court case against WWF. No chance of it happening and everyone knew it. But the wrestlers didn't, so Vince was able to use that line to quell an uprising.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the story in a nutshell. Bret jumping with the title couldn't have happened--even if he wanted to.