London vs McMahon

[Scroby 0]

I give credit to London for sticking up for the divison to Vince, most wrestlers hired by Vince are to scared to even talk to Vince about a angle. I say London should go ahead and do the moves anyways just so he can get fired and get something better. I wonder if Spanky will even go back now since he is a high flyer, I mean he can do mat work, but at the same time Spanky is mainly a high flyer.

[geniusMoment 0]

This is awesome news. Imagine the roster of TNA if this comes true:

 

London

Styles

Samoa Joe

Daniels

and possibly Jericho

 

I would take those 5 over the top 5 in WWE.

[Silence 0]

I wonder if Spanky will even go back now since he is a high flyer, I mean he can do mat work, but at the same time Spanky is mainly a high flyer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah. Vince would probably tell him to stop using the Sliced Bread #2 as his finisher, most likely.

[Guest Brian]

This is awesome news.  Imagine the roster of TNA if this comes true:

 

London

Styles

Samoa Joe

Daniels

and possibly Jericho

 

I would take those 5 over the top 5 in WWE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would still take the WWE's top five (Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, Regal, and now Knoble), all thing being equal. But unfortunately, that's not the case given the WWE's restrictions.

[geniusMoment 0]

I would take TNA's due to age, the crippler and Eddy both will begin to slow within 3 years, and Rey already can not do what he once did.

[Guest Brian]

I assumed we were talking about now, and even then, they still have their name value and experience. Mysterio may not be as fast and slick as he once was, but few would argue that he's not a smarter worker than he's ever been.

[Guest *KNK*]

I'd take ROH's TOP FIVE over TNA(The actual top five) and WWE's top five

 

Aries

Joe

Gibson

Strong(you can argue that Shelley or Styles or Daniels or Low Ki can have this spot)

Homicide

[EricMM 0]

It's a mystery why anyone like Punk for example, anyone with any sort of love for the business, would sign for a company like this.

 

A company which clearly has far less love for the business of "wrestling" than they do.

 

If this is true, then there's no reason for me to pick back up my Raw or SD! watching habits.

 

Hasn't anyone told Vince that variety is the spice of life? A show with only one trick isn't going to fill two hours very well at all.

[bob_barron 0]

It's a mystery why anyone like Punk for example, anyone with any sort of love for the business, would sign for a company like this.

 

Money, security, the chance to showcase their skills in front of a much larger audience.

[EricMM 0]

Yeah, ask London how much of his skills he gets to showcase.

 

I know that there's more to wrestling than highspots. But it's what London does. It's not like they're avoiding injuries anyways.

[Guest *KNK*]

CM Punk is a different beast then Paul London.

 

Punk had already conquered the independent world and would have been spining his wheels in the mud if he stayed put in Independents and it's unlikely he could have been a big star in Japan.

 

CM Punk, unlike London CAN work the WWE style, he has the intelligence to figure out what WWE wants and is confidant he can utilize that in being about to parlay himself into a successful character. (He's also going to have Paul Heyman backing him and already has the "seal of approval" from Mick Foley, something Vince will take in consideration)

 

CM Punk does have the HUGE advantage of being an excellent promo (something that time will tell if WWE chooses to capitalize on), he has the advantage of a different look that isn't quite HOSS-Tastic but not flippy floppy like London.

 

CM Punk can play politics, London as this story proves, CANT.

[Hektik 0]

It's a mystery why anyone like Punk for example, anyone with any sort of love for the business, would sign for a company like this.

 

Money, security, the chance to showcase their skills in front of a much larger audience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That depends on how much of a shot the wrestler gets. Meltzer pointed this out about Matt Hardy choosing WWE over TNA.

 

In hindsight, Hardy looks to have made the wrong call, because he could have been NWA champion and gotten $2,500 per shot every weekend working indies, plus picture money, plus had expenses paid, and in WWE, well, he's headed nowhere, and nowhere in WWE isn't neccessarily a high paying job.

[geniusMoment 0]

Also, people act like working all of those dates is such a good thing in WWE. Well guess what, most people are making just at their downside guarantee while working those dates, and the downsides for undercarders like London are now less than 130,000 a year on average. You pay all road expenses, which is usually at least 40,000 a year, and you are not left with that much. If you are as good as London, between TNA, ROH and the occasional overseas tour you can make almost as much, and have tons more freedom. People act like WWE wrestlers are rich, when many of them now have downsides that are tiny, hell, it was reported that Dawn Maries downside was under 6 figures per year.

[Scroby 0]

It's a mystery why anyone like Punk for example, anyone with any sort of love for the business, would sign for a company like this.

 

A company which clearly has far less love for the business of "wrestling" than they do.

 

If this is true, then there's no reason for me to pick back up my Raw or SD! watching habits.

 

Hasn't anyone told Vince that variety is the spice of life? A show with only one trick isn't going to fill two hours very well at all.

 

Same reason Matt Hardy went back......$$$$. But unlike London, CM Punk is a much different case as far as I know (and I haven't seen a match of CM Punk's yet, can't get many indy stuff in CA) Punk isn't a high flyer, he's a mat wrestler. Something that the WWE style mainly is. And I'm pretty sure Vince could less what variety means to life when he owns the wrestling world.

[Fökai 0]

Why the fuck is London bitching? Didn't he have a alternate finisher that he used to use? For a guy who was almost decapitated by a 450, not to mention Chavo's injury via SSP last summer as well as Brock's botch, he's awfully quick to defend *others* using the move.

 

...and really, the WWE banned most moves with a head-drop manuever a few years ago. Is it really different from this situation?

[Scroby 0]

Why the fuck is London bitching? Didn't he have a alternate finisher that he used to use? For a guy who was almost decapitated by a 450, not to mention Chavo's injury via SSP last summer as well as Brock's botch, he's awfully quick to defend *others* using the move.

 

...and really, the WWE banned most moves with a head-drop manuever a few years ago. Is it really different from this situation?

 

Because not every move can be done perfect every time. You can't expect any high flying move to be hit perfect or for some mistiming to happen, or for someone not to slip. Chavo's injury was nothing more than Kiddman not hitting the right spot but then again Billy should have stopped doing the press when he put weight on, Juvi just jumped at a bad angle, plus London's body should have been more centered, and as far as Brock's SSP, Angle was to far out and Brock thought he should just he should just try and hit it anyways. Moves get screwed up, so should that mean the WWE should ban any move that could cause a injury? No it doens't.

 

And the reason why WWE banned the head drop moves was stupid, hell it didn't even happen in the WWE. Two indy guys I think out in Pureto Rico did the move and botched it and one got seriously injured, and it was the move was a tombstone, WWE got scared and thought it could happen to one of their guys, then again it could happen to almost anyone at anytime as a freak accident or if the two guys don't know what they're doing..hell i've taken one and I was comfortable as hell cause I trusted the guy who gave it to me. Remember when the WWE tried to ban the DDT and the frog splash as well....yeah WWE just overreacts when it comes to certain moves that recently caused a injury.

[Fökai 0]

Chavo's injury was nothing more than Kiddman not hitting the right spot but then again Billy should have stopped doing the press when he put weight on, Juvi just jumped at a bad angle, plus London's body should have been more centered, and as far as Brock's SSP, Angle was to far out and Brock thought he should just he should just try and hit it anyways.

 

No, I just found it weird that he defended Juvi and the division, whereas Juvi hurt him with the 450 and could've done much worse.

 

Moves get screwed up, so should that mean the WWE should ban any move that could cause a injury? No it doens't.

 

Of course they shouldn't ban moves when someone gets injured. All we'd have left is a eye rake and the atomic noogie. I'm saying that the WWE at least has a REASON to do so, being overly concerned over everyone's health and well-being to the point that no risks are taken.

 

WWE got scared and thought it could happen to one of their guys, then again it could happen to almost anyone at anytime as a freak accident or if the two guys don't know what they're doing..hell i've taken one and I was comfortable as hell cause I trusted the guy who gave it to me. Remember when the WWE tried to ban the DDT and the frog splash as well....yeah WWE just overreacts when it comes to certain moves that recently caused a injury.

 

That's exactly what I mean, though. All they're doing is overreactiing by eliminating any possibility of an accident, which although doesn't happen often, happens more with these moves. It's not as if they're saying "hey, let's fuck with so-and-so and eliminate piledrivers and top rope moves", which is what this thread has been about.

 

EDIT: On a personal note, the 450 is a legitimately scary move that I don't want anyone to complain about not having. No, I'm not agreeing with this ruling, but watching any move being set up shouldn't make me flinch and hope for the best. London has been doing reliable ones for a while; it's just that everyone else is just so sloppy with theirs own variations that he's the one being punished.

[humongous2002 0]

CM Punk might be a mat style wrestler but eventually WWE will find a way to fuck him over and make him uninteresting, they are doing it with London, Christian, Matt Hardy and all the other cruiserweights. Vince talks about learning how to work to get over but then he puts guys like JBL and Batista as main eventers with long world title reigns.

[daileyxplanet 0]

Atleast we still have Psicosis' GUILLOTINE LEGDROP. I will forever mark for that move.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

No, I just found it weird that he defended Juvi and the division, whereas Juvi hurt him with the 450 and could've done much worse.

 

Maybe he is aware that what he does for a profession is danegrous by nature, and goes in knowing the risks, thus not acting like a 5 year old when someone botches a move against him because he knows he could have just as easily done it to them.

[Scroby 0]

QUOTE(bravesfan @ Aug 27 2005, 05:40 AM)

No, I just found it weird that he defended Juvi and the division, whereas Juvi hurt him with the 450 and could've done much worse.

 

Maybe he is aware that what he does for a profession is danegrous by nature, and goes in knowing the risks, thus not acting like a 5 year old when someone botches a move against him because he knows he could have just as easily done it to them.

 

*coughbillykiddmancough*

 

Its hard to control the 450 splash because its so fast. London should already know that, so thats why he defended the division.

[justcoz 0]

Just scrap the division all together and use the cruisers to create legitimate tag team divisions on Smackdown and Raw.

 

You could have:

 

MnM

Spanky/Paul London - Team X-Treme

Juvi/Super Crazy/Psychosis - Mexicools

Funakio and Nunzio - Full Blooded Italians

Frankie Kazarian and Matt Bentley - Total Nonstop Action

Teddy Hart and Harry Smith - Hart Foundation

Hurricane and Nova

Jamie Noble and Stevie Richards

Johnny Jeter and Matt Cappotelli (w/ an OVW storyline explanation, maybe bring them in with Heyman)

Steven Regal and Paul Birchill

Cade and Murdoch

[Guest *KNK*]

Just scrap the division all together and use the cruisers to create legitimate tag team divisions on Smackdown and Raw.

 

You could have:

 

MnM

Spanky/Paul London - Team X-Treme

Juvi/Super Crazy/Psychosis - Mexicools

Funakio and Nunzio - Full Blooded Italians

Frankie Kazarian and Matt Bentley - Total Nonstop Action

Teddy Hart and Harry Smith - Hart Foundation

Hurricane and Nova

Jamie Noble and Stevie Richards

Johnny Jeter and Matt Cappotelli (w/ an OVW storyline explanation, maybe bring them in with Heyman)

Steven Regal and Paul Birchill

Cade and Murdoch

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kazarian is gone.

 

Nova is never coming back, learn to accept it.

 

Heyman will bother to explain it storyline wise, but it doesnt need Heyman in WWE.

 

Jamie Noble and Richards? Nah, I'd just have Gibson be a singles wrestler working with Benoit.

 

The rest would work though.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Actually the tombstone if I recall correctly, was banned due to WWE guys getting stingers off it (like HHH and Rock). They then decided it wasn't worth keeping. Only Taker and Kane can do it, and they do a very safe version of the move.

[Guest *KNK*]

Actually the tombstone if I recall correctly, was banned due to WWE guys getting stingers off it (like HHH and Rock). They then decided it wasn't worth keeping. Only Taker and Kane can do it, and they do a very safe version of the move.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

With the exception of Owen Hart on a couple occasions, who else did the Tombstone anyways?

[daileyxplanet 0]

If you're referring to the Owen Hart/Steve Austin match, that was actually, a square-driver, as Owen sat down.

[cameron chaos 0]

After Taker returned during the Rock/HHH iron man match, the piledriver he gave to HHH gave him HH a stinger, HHH complained enough and the Tombstone was banned. Rikishi had to stop using the Rikishi driver and go with the Banzai Drop instead, Taker had to use The Last Ride and Kane had to use the Chokeslam. I don't think any piledrivers were used again until the Angle/Austin feud except for on a few females (Tori, Trish). I'm guessing mainly because it allowed them to run injury angles and the women were short enough so that their heads were a good 8 inches from even touching the mat.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Just scrap the division all together and use the cruisers to create legitimate tag team divisions on Smackdown and Raw.

 

You could have:

 

MnM

Spanky/Paul London - Team X-Treme

Juvi/Super Crazy/Psychosis - Mexicools

Funakio and Nunzio - Full Blooded Italians

Frankie Kazarian and Matt Bentley - Total Nonstop Action

Teddy Hart and Harry Smith - Hart Foundation

Hurricane and Nova

Jamie Noble and Stevie Richards

Johnny Jeter and Matt Cappotelli (w/ an OVW storyline explanation, maybe bring them in with Heyman)

Steven Regal and Paul Birchill

Cade and Murdoch

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kazarian is gone.

 

Nova is never coming back, learn to accept it.

 

Heyman will bother to explain it storyline wise, but it doesnt need Heyman in WWE.

 

Jamie Noble and Richards? Nah, I'd just have Gibson be a singles wrestler working with Benoit.

 

The rest would work though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nunzio already has Vito.

[Silence 0]

I don't think any piledrivers were used again until the Angle/Austin feud except for on a few females (Tori, Trish). I'm guessing mainly because it allowed them to run injury angles and the women were short enough so that their heads were a good 8 inches from even touching the mat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I remember Austin giving a piledriver to Angle in 2001 (although Angle being able to walk on Smackdown later that week with a neckbrace sort of killed the credibility of the move in WWE), too.

 

I don't think I remember Tori or Trish being piledriven after piledrivers were banned in WWE in 2000, though. I might be wrong, but the only female (or she-male, anyway) I really remember getting piledriven in WWE after 2000 was Chyna either by Val Venis or Steven Richards when they were RTC members.

[justcoz 0]

Nunzio already has Vito.

 

c'mon, let me have fun with Funakio, Funaki in a wife beater, hair greased back, trying to talk with a brooklyn accent, singing Sinatra, WWE completely forgot that the FBI gimmick was supposed to be funny....