Help me with TNA matches...

[Guest Brian]

Help recommend me some TNA from what's available from Comcast OnDemand. Here's what I have:

 

Daniels vs. Skipper (Lockdown 4/24/05)

3-Man X-Division Match (Slammiversary 6/19/05)

Samoa Joe vs. Chris Sabin (No Surrender 6/17/05)

[Dangerous A 0]

Daniels v Skipper was a pleasant surprise because Skipper is spot fu with little substance. Daniels really holds the match together and it's one of Skipper's best one on one matches I've seen in TNA.

 

I can't vouch for the 3-Man because I haven't seen it.

 

Joe vs Sabin is the best match of the 3. Joe kicks ass, yet gives Sabin enough offense to shine as well.

 

I'd recommend 2 of the 3 and that's partially because I haven't seen the other match.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The three-man is ok, but it lacks a little something. It's not bad, but it's a step below the other two.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Sabin vs. Joe is the best.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I've seen the first two (thanks to the same service, no less), but from all accounts Joe/Sabin is one of the best matches in TNA's history, and one of the best matches so far this year outside of RoH, so yeah. I didn't even know it was on the list, so I'm gonna watch it when I get home from work.

[ragingfear79 0]

deff Joe VS Sabin I think i migh have it somewhere in my pc if any of you needs it pm me and ill look for it.

[C Dubya 04 0]

Aren't the matches on ONDemand free? If so, watch them all.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I watched Sabin/Joe. It's overrated. Good match, but not "OMG AWESOME~!" like everybody made it out to be.

[Guest Coffey]

Watching matches with a certain expectation due to peer praise is a lot different than watching matches live with an open mind and certain expectations due to the performers in the match.

 

Just saying.

[Ripper 0]

I was just going to say that. When the match is praised as unbelieveable, you come in, through no fault of your own, looking for flaws. Its human nature. When you come in with a blank slate, you can see it for what its worth. That say, Joe/Sabin was a damn fine match to me and I enjoyed the hell out of it.

[Da Maintenance Man 0]

Aren't the matches on ONDemand free?  If so, watch them all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can anyone confirm this? Whether it's free or not?

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

It's free.

 

And I actually didn't go in with much of an expectation, simply because I knew that if I went in thinking "hey, a lot of people hyped the fuck out of this match, so it MUST be good," I wouldn't enjoy it. I DID enjoy it, I just wasn't that enthusiastic about the overall lack of action in it. It's a long match, roughly 15 minutes or so, maybe more, and 12 of those minutes is Joe owning Sabin's ass. While I do love that Joe is being pushed in TNA, since he IS a great talent, giving Sabin little offense was a poor decision, IMO. My favorite matches involving Joe have been with the same dynamic, big strong man vs. small fast man, most notably the feud with LowKi in RoH in '02, and though it's not the same dynamic, the matches vs. AJ Styles in RoH (most specifically at War of the Wire) and vs. Homicide.

The thing I loved about these matches? It was obvious Joe had the strength and overall toughness advantage over each of these men. But they had speed, agility, and some good gameplans to use so they could at least have a shot at winning. Joe/Sabin, while definitely a good match, put Joe over and, I feel, actually took away some of Sabin's heat.

 

The big positives to the match are that they didn't rely on INSANE highspots galore to get the fans into it, and the few highspots they did do (mostly the Muscle Buster and Sabin's top-rope moves and his topé) popped the crowd more than your average TNA spotfest does with moves that are astounding to watch. Joe definitely has a great future in TNA, and maybe WWE one day, and I have no doubt he'll be a main eventer in either/both promotions in 10 years time, having held both companies' top belts and having wins over their top stars. He has THAT MUCH raw talent in him. But this match didn't show how well he could truly work, and in a sense...that actually helped the match while also hurting it.

Because by Joe destroying Sabin, but not in the typical "grrr, me pick you up and slam you" big man way, it gets it over that he's a WRESTLER first, a MONSTER later. Even his nickname in TNA right, the Samoan Submission Machine, is something I dig. I dig everything about the character in TNA right now, from the entrance (walking slowly, staring at the ring, a towel around his neck) to the fact that he only showboats before the Facewash...I love it. He worked on Sabin's neck for a good portion of the mathc, and the spot where he turned the STF into a Crippler Crossface and then into an armbar was sick and I'd like to see it become part of his regular arsenal.

 

Final rating:

Good match, ***1/4, but overrated slightly.

[Youth N Asia 0]

I just watched those the other day. Sabin vs Joe is great. Puts Joe over well as a monster but doesn't make Sabin look like a bitch or anything.

 

I hope they put Joe/AJ on Demand soon

[Rendclaw 0]

This is awesome.... too bad WWE doesn;t have any OnDemand.

[Styles 0]

This is awesome.... too bad WWE doesn;t have any OnDemand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well techinically they have a whole damn On Demand channel but stupid fucking Comcast won't add it to their service.

[jwpeer 0]

I watched the Joe v. Sabin match last night after work while eatin dinner.

Went into it expecting nothing, as i've seen neither of these guys work before and other peoples comments don't really register to me.

 

my FIRST biggest gripe that detracted form the match for ME was the colour commentary. If that guy is gonna be doing iMPACT I seriously don't know if I want to watch it, as his voice hurt my ears and distracted me from the match.

 

 

Second, one of the commentary guys said Joe was 6'8"...WTF? That would make Sabin like 6'7 or 6'6" because Joe hardly towered over him. And he certainly didn't LOOK like a 6'8" guy (More like 6'4" to me)...is sabin really that big also, or was this just a load of horsecrap.

 

 

The actual match was fairly entertaining, i actually preferred Sabin's offensive spurt to Joe's early domination, though I really liked the triple submission move spot, it really got over to someone the whole Samoan Submission Machine gimmick (I laughed to myself when he gott he crossface hooked and the announcers hedged around actually naming the move).

 

the finisher somewhat bothered me...because why would anyone need to lock in the Kokina Clutch after a ridiculously devastating looking move like the muscle buster. I marked hard for that, but seriously would have liked to see a plain pinfall after that move (And coming from me that's weird, because I mark out HARD for ANY submission move).

 

 

I enjoyed the action though, and Samoa Joe looked pretty threatening and I loved the way Sabin sold the offense. Looking forward to some TNA Saturday Nights, minus that damn colour guy.

[King Cucaracha 0]

No way is Joe 6'8".

 

Joe always finishes off with the Kokina/Rear Naked Choke. Basically, he's amassing a list of victims...unoffically, but it's putting the move over. He could end it with the Muscle Buster, yes. But it makes sense for him to end with a submission as the 'Samoan Submission Machine'.

[jwpeer 0]

No way is Joe 6'8".

 

Joe always finishes off with the Kokina/Rear Naked Choke. Basically, he's amassing a list of victims...unoffically, but it's putting the move over. He could end it with the Muscle Buster, yes. But it makes sense for him to end with a submission as the 'Samoan Submission Machine'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I agree with ending with the Kokina Clutch, I love the maneuver (Love submission moves/finishes). I just don't like it coming after the muscle buster...I think it cheapens the submission hold by having to preface it with such a high-impact move, because it's really the muscle buster doing the damage. The best way to put the move over would be hitting it out of the blue...you know, maybe off an irish whip just overpowering his opponent and dragging him to the canvas, etc.

 

 

[Dangerous A 0]

I agree that he needs to establish the muscle buster as a pinning finisher while the rear naked choke is already his submission finisher.

 

I read that Joe is also very protective of the choke in that he doesn't want anyone reach the ropes for a rope break, ever. Joe is of the impression that in a real fight, if the choke is put on you, you either tap quickly or pass out. Some have tried to soften his stance on it by saying it's pro wrestling and you should have people make the ropes to add dramatic effect, but Joe doesn't go for it, which I agree with. Keep it special.

[jwpeer 0]

I agree that he needs to establish the muscle buster as a pinning finisher while the rear naked choke is already his submission finisher.

 

I read that Joe is also very protective of the choke in that he doesn't want anyone reach the ropes for a rope break, ever. Joe is of the impression that in a real fight, if the choke is put on you, you either tap quickly or pass out. Some have tried to soften his stance on it by saying it's pro wrestling and you should have people make the ropes to add dramatic effect, but Joe doesn't go for it, which I agree with. Keep it special.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I like that stance myself and it definitely makes sense. Treat it just like you would a always-sold impact finisher (not too many of those anymore though) if it's on it's over.

[Ripper 0]

Don West has gotten SO much better at color commetary than he was in the beganing. I mean I HATED him with his "OMG this is the greatest wrestling I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE!!!" commetating, but he is getting alot better.

 

I think thats why he is easy to tolorate to me now, because he was SO bad back in the day.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I disagree with Joe saying NOBODY should EVER make the ropes. Should they even come close to making the ropes if he locks it on in the middle of the ring to, say, Shark Boy or Eric Young? No chance. But if he locks it on Daniels or Styles or anybody that's put over as being a very solid technical wrestler (not including Styles, as he's just put over as being an amazing athlete that loves to fly, though he's not bad on the mat at all), they should be able to at least make an attempt at escaping/countering before they tap. I'm not saying drag it out like WWE does with EVERY submission finish, but have, say, 25 seconds of struggle with the opponent almost breaking it/making the ropes for BIG matches, and then Joe cinches it in fully.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I look at it the same way as I do Angle's Anklelock.

 

After he goes to the mat and wraps it up (vs. Benoit at the Rumble, or HBK at Mania)...no one gets out.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

And that's a very good way to look at it, too. In fact, that's a good way to look at most submission holds: when they first put it on, you can break out of it if you struggle enough and know how to get out, but once they clamp it down as tight as they can, you're fucked. Angle falling down and wrapping his legs around his opponent's with the Anklelock on has definitely been put over as "okay, this guy's fucked," so why not do the same for when Joe applies the body scissors for the Kokina Clutch?

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Hey, you're lucky

 

The 3 Comcast OnDemand matches I have now are:

 

Skipper/Daniels

Daniels/Shane/Sabin

20-Man #1 Contender's Gauntlet (Abyss/Killings final two)

 

The Gauntlet was okay. WAY too rushed. I hated how they seemingly had to hit a big spot right before the clock finished counting down. Outlaw/James thing was cool, but James needs to lose the fat jersey. BOTCHED SPOTS GALORE from Primetime/Roode, Abyss multiple times, Killings/Abyss, and a few others. I do not like how Tenay and West cover Abyss' blown spots by using the "tunnel vision" (?!?!) excuse, how "he'll keep trying til he gets it and cant be stopped".

 

3-Way X-Title match was REALLY good. But the crowd hurt it. They were dead until the final minutes. And the two female valets (Traci, Trinity) were horrendous, both in-ring and looks. I know Traci usually looks SMOKIN in her photo shoots and on TV, but something was wrong there.

 

Havent watched XXX battle yet.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Skipper/Daniels is good psychology-wise...but that's it. Boring match from two that have proven they're capable of more.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Skipper always bored me, even when he was being pimped in WCW as a "fresh, young star" I still couldn't stand his weak, flippy-floppy-botchy kicks and contrived spots.

 

Daniels, on the other hand, JESUS H. His ring presence alone in that 3-way makes him cooler than anyone in WWE.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I disagree with Joe saying NOBODY should EVER make the ropes. Should they even come close to making the ropes if he locks it on in the middle of the ring to, say, Shark Boy or Eric Young? No chance. But if he locks it on Daniels or Styles or anybody that's put over as being a very solid technical wrestler (not including Styles, as he's just put over as being an amazing athlete that loves to fly, though he's not bad on the mat at all), they should be able to at least make an attempt at escaping/countering before they tap. I'm not saying drag it out like WWE does with EVERY submission finish, but have, say, 25 seconds of struggle with the opponent almost breaking it/making the ropes for BIG matches, and then Joe cinches it in fully.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I understand it, Joe didn't say that that people shouldn't make the ropes when in the hold. His belief is that people should either pass out quickly or tap out quickly. I don't believe Joe said people should never make the ropes; I don’t think he said anything about the ropes at all. I would think that Joe’s feelings on people making the ropes are the same in regards to tapping out or passing out; do it quickly.

[Dangerous A 0]

That was my bad for wording it wrong. HTQ had it correct in that Joe is more against a long, dramatic, 30 second fight for the ropes. It's more like if he gets the choke and it's not the finish, Joe probrably prefers like a frantic less than 5 second dash for the ropes. If he's got the hold on for 5 seconds or longer, it should be the finish.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

That was my bad for wording it wrong. HTQ had it correct in that Joe is more against a long, dramatic, 30 second fight for the ropes. It's more like if he gets the choke and it's not the finish, Joe probrably prefers like a frantic less than 5 second dash for the ropes. If he's got the hold on for 5 seconds or longer, it should be the finish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I think he has the right idea. For a killer submission hold, there shouldn't be much of a struggle. If it really is a killer submission hold, why should there be?