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The OAO Raw Homecoming Thread

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The cut and re-cut to HHH beating up Flair was great. That needs to be the new 'HHH riding a forklift'...during boring interview segments, Flair should just stagger past bleeding while HHH hits him in the head with a knife and Flair sells it by shouting 'OW!' I also liked how both Dusty and Race showed absolutely NO concern for Flair at all and that Arn Anderson was nowhere in sight when his bestest buddy was 'getting his skull caved in' with a sledgehammer.

 

Other than that, a REALLY meh show. Called the Superkick and time running out. Called the entire Austin segment. Called the HHH/Flair turned. Called Conway getting his ass kicked. Even called Mae turning up when Trish and Ashley were talking. When they baited and switched on the 6 Man, I turned off and went to bed.

 

The only thing worth watching on the show was the Ironman (decent, they didn't go OTT which was nice) and Randy Orton's appearance (about the one thing I didn't see coming all night)

 

 

Also, what a surprise that humongous is bitching about Orton. The words 'mind numbingly predictable' come to mind.

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Well, the Orton thing didn't make much sense. I've seen Foley job to him 2 times and don't wish to see that again. I don't want to see Orton vs. Piper period. So really there isn't anything good that can come from this segment. Also, there's just something sad about the Ortons being among the first guys you see on the big epic homecoming show on USA. Add to it that Orton isn't even on Raw and that was one puzzling segment.

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Well, the Orton thing didn't make much sense.  I've seen Foley job to him 2 times and don't wish to see that again.  I don't want to see Orton vs. Piper period.  So really there isn't anything good that can come from this segment.  Also, there's just something sad about the Ortons being among the first guys you see on the big epic homecoming show on USA.  Add to it that Orton isn't even on Raw and that was one puzzling segment.

 

Hardly anything on the show had anything good coming from it. Austin/McMahons. Conway getting his ass handed to him by a bunch of legends. Orton's feuding with Taker. This is just a side issue.

 

Boo-hoo, Randy Orton sucks, we know, we've heard over and over and over and over again.

 

It was WWE Homecoming, not RAW Homecoming. They kept saying WWE Homecoming all show. Smackdown has a freaking match booked on the show for crying out loud. Hardly 'puzzling'.

 

It was the first chance they had really to piece together the Randy Orton -> Bob Orton -> Roddy Piper connection. And they added Foley so people though he'd be the one Orton was coming after. Makes sense to me.

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Shawn sold the ankle the whole time. Actually re-watch the match.

He sold it, then stopped, then sold, then stopped, then sold. He was never consistant at selling in his fucking career, although atleast in the past he would do alittle bit more with bobbling around on one leg. Watch it again and laugh as he switched legs at one point from the hurt one being 'hurt' to the ok one being 'hurt.' The entire room I was watching with erupted in laughter when Shawn got on his knees for an extended time. YOUR KNEE IS FUCKING ABOUT TO BE RIPPED OFF AT THE LIGAMENT DIPSHIT! Everyone knows the first rule of good wrestling is selling. You can make anything look decent with a good sell.

 

I thought Angle was working the ankle. :huh:

 

Watch it again and laugh as he switched legs at one point from the hurt one being 'hurt' to the ok one being 'hurt.

 

When did this happen? I watched the match twice and didn't catch it. No one else mentioned it. So if it happened, I'm guessing it wasn't that big of a deal.

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Comparing this show to TNA's first show on Spike. Classic. What else will the apologists come up with to justify how terrible this show was?

 

MAN! IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE NOSTALGIA!!! You just need to see it like that! It's not about wrestling, it's about old school and what it used to be like on USA!

 

We almost saw Candice's bare ass!!! That's a great show in my book! Austin stunnering people like the old days was awesome! How can a real fan not like that? Did you see the size of Stephanie's boobs? WHOA!

 

Triple H is such an awesome mean person, I hope Flair gets back at Triple H.

 

Greatest three hours ever!

No, it wasn't about nostalgia. Overreactions on all sides, except for Mike.

 

I can't speak for the other sports/entertainment alternatives since I didn't see them, but I felt last night's show was a perfectly planned introduction to the new fans that would undoubtedly be tuning in after the PR blitz and promotion on USA for the move. The whole night felt like a PPV, and it was so nice and fresh-feeling.

 

What lacked was execution. The Austin segment was genius but too drawn out. I can't think of a better way to start this new era (and that's not just WWE-speak; last night was full of closures on old things) than having Austin leave the entire McMahon family in a heap in the ring and ride off into the sunset. All that shit's over. I take all of this back the moment that any of these people reappear (minus Vince, who has to show up for big news and stuff) though. If left as it was, last night was an acceptable final load of dirt thrown on the Attitude grave.

 

The women's segment, as much as I love women's wrestling, was painful. Still, promise these new fans T&A and you've gotta deliver somehow I guess. Just find a way to cut it down.

 

Hey, what's that other show they've got? Smackdown? Pff. Fuck if you can be bothered to care, they sure don't. I didn't have an issue with Bischoff halting their match to be a dick, only because I thought that there'd be SOMETHING with Smackdown guys wrestling later on. No way they'd just totally ignore these guys we're supposed to buy as equal, right? Did they even get to say at any point exactly when or where to find Smackdown besides "Friday Night?"

 

HHH/Flair is a tag team I wanted to see for some reason. I kinda missed HHH's grunts and other noises he makes during any beatdown. Maybe that's why the shows have felt so new. It was still nice to see the HHH factor kinda downplayed, at least as I saw it. It helped that dude's HUGE now, and I didn't see him as "HHH, always-present guy on top," I saw him as "HHH, returning big name." I dunno, the hotter Stephanie gets, the more HHH lets himself go.

 

The whole show was predictable, to a T. Still, it was in the good way, serving as an introduction to USA viewers, and a peppering of every element that WWE would like to convey, as often as they fail in doing so. Couple'a segments with old guys being disrespected by young dudes who are ready to take over, a match meant to emphasize in-ring product, a wild brawl of some sort, T&A, advertised performers getting real face time (shame there was no Carlito promo at any point), a carefully manicured presentation meant to efficiently draw in viewers. The execution was lacking at times, but that can be fixed with simple practice and the inevitable opening back up of the movesets. It's important their minds are on that "draw" word and continue with it. Long-term is the key, and Raw ain't gonna be fixed in one night. It's a good start and I hope they can continue it. I'm ready to really enjoy wrestling again, and that some degree of thought is going into things is a promising sign.

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I wouldn;t mind seeing a Raw Vs. Smackdown 8 man match at SS. With the way that smosh went, you would think it was leaning that way.

 

And yes, the show was predictable from start to finish. Between myself and a friend of mine, we called the whole show from top to bottom.

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Guest I miss Test.
The Austin segment was genius but too drawn out. I can't think of a better way to start this new era (and that's not just WWE-speak; last night was full of closures on old things) than having Austin leave the entire McMahon family in a heap in the ring and ride off into the sunset. All that shit's over.

 

Meanwhile, there's the Cena-Bischoff feud. Which in no way is similar to Austin's act in the past decade.

 

Long-term is the key, and Raw ain't gonna be fixed in one night.

 

So, that's why you have a 30-minute Ironman draw to set up a rematch.

 

I didn't see him as "HHH, always-present guy on top," I saw him as "HHH, returning big name."

 

I really don't understand some of you on this. Just because HHH is gone for a few months, that makes him fresh again? WWE already showed last night that he's going to be the same godlike dominant heel who gets his ass kissed by everyone, that he's been for half a decade.

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By "that shit's over," I meant what will hopefully be the end of Austin and McMahon appearances on TV.

 

I buy into WWE's stuff more than others. HHH didn't seem fresh to me, just someone coming back. Watching him felt different from watching him, say, a year ago. It's probably the pudgy exterior that's warping my perception though. I have a hard time seeing the guy doing the same stuff he did before he left. Something's just different to me, it's hard to explain.

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Here's a little blurb from the Useless Moron's blog. He seems to sum up the show fairly well, at least from my perspective.

 

"

RAW is...OK.

RAW was basically a pretty good show, actually better than most of the ones that have bored me to tears in recent months, but just didn't have the "blow me away" feel that's been lacking for years now. They had all the pieces in place -- a big turn (kind of), lots of guest stars, loser leaves RAW match, a big Iron Man match -- but they couldn't put the pieces together to really make it all click. I think that what it felt like to me was the LAST episode of a long-running series, not the first one of a new series. Whereas TNA introduced their big stars to the audience with the first Impact, WWE basically threw Carlito and Masters out there with no explanation or build of their characters. I mean, sure, it's not terribly likely that people don't know who they are and haven't been watching, but there MIGHT be new viewers (and in fact, that was kind of the point, right?) so why not take five seconds and explain who these guys are?

 

I think their time management was also atrocious, as evidenced by the ridiculously long Austin-McMahons segment that basically robbed us of the Smackdown match and the main event (which was a joke anyway), and seemed to go on forever. I talk more at length about this in the new book, but Austin's slide from iconic figure into self-parody has really been one of the saddest things I've ever witnessed as a wrestling fan. This is truly a guy who can't grasp when it's time to find something new to do with his life, which is doubly ironic considering his attitude in his WCW days towards the people who were acting the same way. He's long past the point where his career (or the WWE's) would suffer if he tried reinventing himself ala "Hulk becomes Hollywood," and really if he doesn't do something soon I don't think the perceived "dream match" with Hogan is going to matter much.

 

The other thing that was really ridiculous about this show was the idea that guys like Batista, Benoit and Christian (representing Smackdown for all of a couple of months) would suddenly feel patriotric fervor towards that show when really they were sent there by an arbitrary draft lottery after establishing all of their current status on RAW. JBL, Rey, Eddie, fine. They're all deeply associated with the show and we can understand why they'd fight for it, but the others just don't ring true.

 

So I think basically that this show was a case of wasted potential more than anything. They just don't have the writing staff that can pull this kind of show off anymore, and it's kind of sad, because you'd think that if they were ever going to get it together and finally deliver something, this would have been the time. "

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Guest I miss Test.

What's he talking about with Austin? Isn't he in some movie roles now? Plus, he probably made a pretty penny for just blabbing for 30 minutes. What does he care if his role is stale? That's on Vince for allowing that neverending segment.

 

Batista, Benoit & Christian had reason to be pissed... you know, because RAW screwed them over, and made them look like jobbers from the B-show.

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Here's a little blurb from the Useless Moron's blog.  He seems to sum up the show fairly well, at least from my perspective.

 

"

RAW is...OK.

RAW was basically a pretty good show, actually better than most of the ones that have bored me to tears in recent months, but just didn't have the "blow me away" feel that's been lacking for years now. They had all the pieces in place -- a big turn (kind of), lots of guest stars, loser leaves RAW match, a big Iron Man match -- but they couldn't put the pieces together to really make it all click. I think that what it felt like to me was the LAST episode of a long-running series, not the first one of a new series. Whereas TNA introduced their big stars to the audience with the first Impact, WWE basically threw Carlito and Masters out there with no explanation or build of their characters. I mean, sure, it's not terribly likely that people don't know who they are and haven't been watching, but there MIGHT be new viewers (and in fact, that was kind of the point, right?) so why not take five seconds and explain who these guys are?

 

I think their time management was also atrocious, as evidenced by the ridiculously long Austin-McMahons segment that basically robbed us of the Smackdown match and the main event (which was a joke anyway), and seemed to go on forever. I talk more at length about this in the new book, but Austin's slide from iconic figure into self-parody has really been one of the saddest things I've ever witnessed as a wrestling fan. This is truly a guy who can't grasp when it's time to find something new to do with his life, which is doubly ironic considering his attitude in his WCW days towards the people who were acting the same way. He's long past the point where his career (or the WWE's) would suffer if he tried reinventing himself ala "Hulk becomes Hollywood," and really if he doesn't do something soon I don't think the perceived "dream match" with Hogan is going to matter much.

 

The other thing that was really ridiculous about this show was the idea that guys like Batista, Benoit and Christian (representing Smackdown for all of a couple of months) would suddenly feel patriotric fervor towards that show when really they were sent there by an arbitrary draft lottery after establishing all of their current status on RAW. JBL, Rey, Eddie, fine. They're all deeply associated with the show and we can understand why they'd fight for it, but the others just don't ring true.

 

So I think basically that this show was a case of wasted potential more than anything. They just don't have the writing staff that can pull this kind of show off anymore, and it's kind of sad, because you'd think that if they were ever going to get it together and finally deliver something, this would have been the time. "

 

If the guy's so useless then why do you check his blog and quote him?

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Here's a little blurb from the Useless Moron's blog.  He seems to sum up the show fairly well, at least from my perspective.

 

"

RAW is...OK.

RAW was basically a pretty good show, actually better than most of the ones that have bored me to tears in recent months, but just didn't have the "blow me away" feel that's been lacking for years now. They had all the pieces in place -- a big turn (kind of), lots of guest stars, loser leaves RAW match, a big Iron Man match -- but they couldn't put the pieces together to really make it all click. I think that what it felt like to me was the LAST episode of a long-running series, not the first one of a new series. Whereas TNA introduced their big stars to the audience with the first Impact, WWE basically threw Carlito and Masters out there with no explanation or build of their characters. I mean, sure, it's not terribly likely that people don't know who they are and haven't been watching, but there MIGHT be new viewers (and in fact, that was kind of the point, right?) so why not take five seconds and explain who these guys are?

 

I think their time management was also atrocious, as evidenced by the ridiculously long Austin-McMahons segment that basically robbed us of the Smackdown match and the main event (which was a joke anyway), and seemed to go on forever. I talk more at length about this in the new book, but Austin's slide from iconic figure into self-parody has really been one of the saddest things I've ever witnessed as a wrestling fan. This is truly a guy who can't grasp when it's time to find something new to do with his life, which is doubly ironic considering his attitude in his WCW days towards the people who were acting the same way. He's long past the point where his career (or the WWE's) would suffer if he tried reinventing himself ala "Hulk becomes Hollywood," and really if he doesn't do something soon I don't think the perceived "dream match" with Hogan is going to matter much.

 

The other thing that was really ridiculous about this show was the idea that guys like Batista, Benoit and Christian (representing Smackdown for all of a couple of months) would suddenly feel patriotric fervor towards that show when really they were sent there by an arbitrary draft lottery after establishing all of their current status on RAW. JBL, Rey, Eddie, fine. They're all deeply associated with the show and we can understand why they'd fight for it, but the others just don't ring true.

 

So I think basically that this show was a case of wasted potential more than anything. They just don't have the writing staff that can pull this kind of show off anymore, and it's kind of sad, because you'd think that if they were ever going to get it together and finally deliver something, this would have been the time. "

 

If the guy's so useless then why do you check his blog and quote him?

 

At one time, he was one of the best and most insightful writers in the IWC. He's really fallen off in recent years but I still check things just to see if he has returned to form. Old habits die hard I guess.

 

And the reason I quoted him is because he made excellent points about Steve Austin and the show in general.

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Actually, can we even LIKE a RAW show? When do you think it's good enough? I don't think most smart marks can fully enjoy RAW anymore.

 

Bad booking has a way of making a decent show look like shit. For the most part, over the last couple of years RAW is only capable of peaking at decent, and more often than not falls into the mind numbingly boring/predictable category. When you know from week to week exactly what's going to happen in a specific order for the most part, it's hard to get excited about a show, especially if you don't necessarily happen to enjoy the primary players involved.

 

The only reason I'd say most smarks even watch RAW is because it's live so there's always the possibility of something big happening. With SD, you can just glance at spoilers and decide whether or not it's worth watching (and for most, they decide it isn't). Whenever RAW is a tape delayed show the level of interest falls way off. If YOU like what you're watching that's really all you should be concerned with.

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RAW was good until Austin/McMahon #285785784 then it felt rushed because they couldn't even pace the show with an extra hour of time, PLUS 15 mins of overage. How a show that had 3 hours and 20 mins of air time having to chop and rush off matches because of bad paciing is just mind numbing. Hogan's promo was cut way short for what was needed to be said. Austin got 35 mins of boring airtime. And the last three matches got a total of like 10 mins of wrestling, not counting any of the intros.

 

BTW: there have been some good RAWs, but too many crappy shows to outweigh any good ones. Plus, the good is good and the bad is beyond god awful.

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Consistency is the key. I find that in 2005 WWE has been putting on good shows more than they used to. PPV especially. Only No Way Out and the Bash were bad PPVs this year. But on TV they still tend to be hit and miss.

 

They've started some decent storylines with Homecoming, now they need to start stringing good shows together - 6 or 7 of them.

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Guest I miss Test.
When you know from week to week exactly what's going to happen in a specific order for the most part, it's hard to get excited about a show, especially if you don't necessarily happen to enjoy the primary players involved.

 

Bingo.

 

I don't think it's just smart marks... I think anyone who was watching during the Monday Night War days, has a hard time watching this formulaic crap. And if you've been watching WWE for most of this decade, you're tired of the undoubtedly main character.

 

I've sparsely watched Raw since 2002... and even I predicted everything that happened at Homecoming. Except the Ironman draw, because I didn't think WWE would be stupid enough to go through with it.

 

WWE just needs to freshen up their product. Problem is that they have no idea how to accomplish this... as shown by wasting 30 minutes on the neverending Austin segment, and basically all of Cena's run on Raw, so far. Their only hope is that another money character/storyline falls in their lap like Austin/Rock did.

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You all know why the WWE product has fallen off in the past 4-5 years, right? Because there is no competition. The WWE cared more about putting on a good show because Vince took this competition with WCW to heart. So he did all he could to out do Bischoff. Now, he's won and to him, that's all that matters. They can pay it safe and not be creative because they cornered the wrestling market.

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And that's why monopolies suck in any buisness; the company almost always rests on its laurels and keeps the status quo, which, if it goes on too long, makes consumers long for an alternative.

 

I know it will never, ever happen, but I think Vince McMahon could legally be brought up on monopoly charges like Bill Gates was. I mean, signing guys like Paul London, who could probably be a star in a smaller fed only to completely bury him is a great example.

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It's hard to consider Vince a monopoly when you have someone like TNA around who has a fairly solid roster. I don't think you can call it a monopoly unless it is proven that Vince is actively trying to keep any promotion from being in business period.

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Guest clockworkraven

Raw Rebound this week shows the Stunner on Vince, Shane and Steph. Linda gets a few freezeframes that completely avoid the actual move.

 

Pity. I was looking forward to seeing it again.

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I've sparsely watched Raw since 2002... and even I predicted everything that happened at Homecoming.  Except the Ironman draw, because I didn't think WWE would be stupid enough to go through with it.

 

For some reason, I WAS predicting the Ironman draw this past Monday because I thought that by WWE's track record in recent years (DQ's in title matches on PPV's, etc.) that WWE would be stupid enough to do a draw for a supposed "rubber match" and unfortunately I was right.

 

I was still just as pissed as anyone else was about it, though, since finishes like those bullshit the fans every time.

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I've sparsely watched Raw since 2002... and even I predicted everything that happened at Homecoming.  Except the Ironman draw, because I didn't think WWE would be stupid enough to go through with it.

 

For some reason, I WAS predicting the Ironman draw this past Monday because I thought that by WWE's track record in recent years (DQ's in title matches on PPV's, etc.) that WWE would be stupid enough to do a draw for a supposed "rubber match" and unfortunately I was right.

 

I was still just as pissed as anyone else was about it, though, since finishes like those bullshit the fans every time.

They probably figured that the match would be a huge ratings draw, while still making the "real" rubber match a match for the next ppv. Good theory, but it's bad in practice.

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