The OAO RAW thread - 10/31/05

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't see Michaels winning here. I'm not sure why but they can't just do a title change on a shitty, nothing PPV like Taboo Tuesday that maybe 10 people will order.

 

In some perverse way I really enjoyed this Raw tonight. It was at least WCW level car wreck type bad rather than offensive "Vince pulls stuff out of JR's ass" level bad. I mean Vader and Goldust beating down Batista after Austin walked out? At least Goldy got some kind of build coming out from Coach...Vader just came out of nowhere and then fell on his ass! I laughed at that for a good 5 mins.

 

Raw is such a surreal car wreck right now. They are setting up Austin vs. Hogan in theory, but Austin walks out. I don't really blame him for not wanting to job to Coach though....I mean what kind of sense does it make to build to Austin/Hogan and have Hogan go over Shawn clean while Austin jobs to a 3rd rate announcer? If Austin does in fact come back for that WM program with Hogan I can assure everyone he's jobbing though.

 

Second, why do they think Cena vs. HHH is a good idea for WM? Right now Cena is getting more heel heat than HHH is, judging by the crowds of late. I said it after Summerslam and I'll say it again: Moving Cena to Raw is a very bad thing for his career. The fans didn't turn on him on SD since he was often facing guys the crowd had no respect for (Carlito, JBL, Suzuki/Dupree). Once he gets on Raw and starts facing talented workers like Jericho, Shawn, and Angle it stands out how stale he is, how mediocre a wrestler he is, and thus the crowd turns on him.

 

I noticed the sign tonight: "I want RVD." Also noticed "I miss Christian" and then Christian shows up, haha.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Two bonafide easy FUN WrestleCrap winners in back to back weeks.

 

Amazing.

[cabbageboy 0]

Anyone else find it funny that the Smackdown guys are among the only ones to leave this show with any dignity intact? Yeah I know Christian quit but he isn't doing anything notable anyway, so it's no biggie storywise on Smackdown.

 

Raw is such a fucking disaster area right now. I mean the big money match they were setting up in Austin/Hogan is now in serious doubt. Their world champion is getting booed more and more by the crowd and almost needs a heel turn, yet all the booking points to him going against HHH at WM. Just a mess.

[BorneAgain 0]

Anyone else find it funny that the Smackdown guys are among the only ones to leave this show with any dignity intact?  Yeah I know Christian quit but he isn't doing anything notable anyway, so it's no biggie storywise on Smackdown.

 

Raw is such a fucking disaster area right now.  I mean the big money match they were setting up in Austin/Hogan is now in serious doubt.  Their world champion is getting booed more and more by the crowd and almost needs a heel turn, yet all the booking points to him going against HHH at WM.  Just a mess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The shows are seemingly complete opposites in terms of how they do things.

 

Raw: World Champion contiues to be stale, as they stick him in crap feuds with the general manager while his competition (heels included) are getting cheered more.

 

Smackdown: Making the World Champ not only strong, but smart, and not letting him get suckered in or beated by the usual heel tricks.

 

 

Raw: Treats the mid-level title as an afterthought, even having a heel call the face who wins it, celebrating in mediocrity.

 

Smackdown: Having two workers who have good history together fued, with the title as the focal point, with the heel doing a great deal to win it.

 

 

Raw: Having one team on the show, who actually rarely appear, despite potential, and generally ignore the division entirely.

 

Smackdown: Bring in fresh talent, creating new teams, who all want the belts, creating a competitive division.

 

 

Raw: Has no real future talent, keeping great workers on the B-shows, often with crappy gimmicks.

 

Smackdown: Allowing rookies and newcomers time to get over, pushing those the demonstrate obvious charisma, and putting them in television main events.

 

 

Raw: Heel turns, and other possible notable events are kept on the internet, to allow time for bizzare sketches with non-workers.

 

Smackdown: Making heel or face turns vital parts of the show, and having comedic characters played simply for laughs, and for the most part kept away from the serious elements.

 

 

Its like Night and Day.

[Guest clockworkraven]

Its like Night and Day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Does that mean we should start sleeping through RAW?

[cabbageboy 0]

Say what you want but I think Dusty Rhodes has helped Smackdown a lot. Dusty's main problems as a booker mostly used to revolve around him carrying out his own agenda to put himself over (and thus make Flair look bad). Dusty however does understand basic wrestling principles such as two guys fighting over a title, creating various divisions and adding depth to those divisions, etc.

[BorneAgain 0]

Its like Night and Day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Does that mean we should start sleeping through RAW?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Considering I thought that the most recent Raw was some bizarre nightmare, I'd say its appropriate.

[RedJed 0]

I swear someone slipped me a few hits of acid tonite as that was one of the most fucked up trainwrecks of Raw I have ever seen. Almost like a show you would have a confusing nonsensical dream about. Seeing the returns of Goldust for no good reason (well I think I know why - they'll move him to Smackdown in an attempt at a small program with Batista - hmmm who's suggestion could THAT have been? Dusty?) and Vader as some sort of faction with Coachman just makes me wonder who Coach is all blowing within the company to get this sort of upper card star treatment when the guy obviously is not a viable option for an active worker, much less an option for suitable announcer even at this point. If this is just some weak way to generate new opponents for Batista on Smackdown (if they are not going to turn Eddy back heel), you have got to be fucking kidding me. Vader needs some serious conditioning training NOW to even likely work a match currently. Anyway you slice it, there is absolutely NOTHING to gain from even hotshotting Batista-Coach. They would have been just better off flat out canceling the match altogether with Austin out of it. No wait, I forget the company feels Coach must be a draw *sigh* And the audience didnt even really pop for Batista. So many wrong things upon an already huge mistake of fucking with Austin and Ross and now it comes to this - damaging the already struggling champ on the "other side" just so your main boy and upcoming star in the booth can get some airtime on the ppv, not just announcing but working a fucking match with the champ of the other show with ZERO reasoning or building up. Amazing. Anyone else on the damn Raw brand would be a better opponent for Batista if they insist on needlessly giving up on the brand split or making an exception "this time" - hell, why don't they just say fuck it while we are at it and do a unification match w/ Cena v. Batista at Survivor Series or Royal Rumble? Might as well if they are going to be tossing off shit like this for a theoretical buck.

 

The Cena-HBK match, in retrospect, shouldnt have occured as one could have called that crowd response, especially on an already draining and confusing show. Cena's legs as being the Raw champ are starting to really fall out thanks to nobody but the writing's own fault.

 

Just a wow kind of show in that the errors were just so vast one doesnt even know where to start at. Horrid build to a ppv I was planning on getting but now am most definately not feeling any need to bother with. I cant even remember what Foley did tonite, if anything.

[RedJed 0]

I usually wouldnt post someone else's thoughts on a particular show, but just read the Raw review over at the Observer site and this Todd Martin guy is just about dead on with the show and, as a whole, the company's state right now.

 

"Again, this show was not without positives, as they did build up tomorrows

PPV pretty well. It will be interesting to see how that does in buys. I

thought last year would do well because it had some positives going for it,

but ultimately the day of the week and the uncertainty of the matches led to

a bad buy rate. They have eliminated the latter problem, and we will see how

this years show does.

 

While not everything was a disaster, this whole show more than any in a

while epitomized a promotion that is falling apart. The core has been rotten

for a long while, but rarely has it seemed so publicly obvious. The

promotion is in turmoil. Quality performers and professionals are leaving.

The people they are bringing in are untalented or unready.

 

The talent evaluators are doing an awful job. The promotion, which had just

a few years ago almost all of the marketable talent in the United States,

now is filled with people who dont belong on national television. They have

the talentless guys who are big because they take lots of steroids, the

talented guys who are saddled with awful gimmicks that prevent them from

succeeding, and the talented guys who they use as jobbers. TNA may actually

have a more talented roster.

 

With TNA showing signs of making it, I expect more people to look to get

out. This is exactly what happened to WCW. As the promotion went down, the

people with talent left to WWF, because WWF actually gave opportunities to

people with talent and the booking was competent. Now its the exact

opposite. WWE performers arent given a chance to get over, and the booking

protects almost no one. People like Jay Reso and Chris Irvine arent going

to put up with that crap if they have a fiscally viable alternative, just

like Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn and Eddy Guerrero in early

2000.

 

These arent the only problems. Just look at the champions tonight. One was

totally rejected by the audience. The other was completely buried by a

crappy announcer and a grossly obese, broken down near 50-year-old. I have

all the respect in the world for Vader, who is one of the best big men in

the history of the business. But it is pathetic that they would let him beat

up their world champion looking like he did.

 

The only conclusion I can come to is that they brought in a guy who is 48

and hasnt wrestled regularly for four years sight unseen. Thats insane.

Moreover, this whole problem came about because they brought back Steve

Austin without even telling him what he was doing, and then wanted him to

lose his first match in years to Jonathan Coachman. Why would Steve Austin

want to be a part of such idiocy? And why would you want to do that in the

first place?

 

Then youve got a promotion which for the past month has just been

hotshotting whatever they can think of. There is no discipline, no

stability, and no greater philosophy. This reminds me of the October 1995 In

Your House. After the card failed on so many levels, and the promotion felt

in serious problem, Vince McMahon threw a fit in front of the audience after

the show went off the air. Things started to get better after that. They put

the title on Bret Hart and then Shawn Michaels. They started the attitude

era with Kevin Nash mouthing motherfucker after a brawl at Survivor Series

1995. Eventually Steve Austin got over.

 

WWE has the infrastructure to be successful. They still have more than

enough talent. They have all the connections. They have some people that

understand the business, and they could have many more if they wanted them.

But first they have to realize they have a problem, and make a number of

fundamental changes. I go into the sorts of changes they need to make every

week here, but it is really very simple.

 

World Wrestling Entertainment is a professional wrestling company. The

people in charge of the wrestling end need to understand professional

wrestling. There is a reason the people that do are so god damn pissed off

at the promotion. WWE spent 15 years taking over the wrestling business in

this country, and then when they seized control, they turned it over to

incompetents who neither understand nor respect the business. And their

arrogance has insulated them from valid criticism from the inside and the

outside. Much of this criticism isnt from people who hate WWE. I love WWE.

I want a strong WWE, so its only natural I get pissed off when the

promotion destroys itself from within. Wake the fuck up, Vince."

[Sass 0]

That is, without a doubt, one of the best things Martin's ever written. Ever. His HBK love still shines through though. Good piece.

[Fökai 0]

From the Observer site...

 

Just got back from the pond for RAW. Lots of empty seats, particularly in the upper deck.

 

Dark matches/ Heat tapings

Rosey pinned Joey Ryan

Val Venis pinned Johnny Parisi(Swinger)

Gregory Helms pinned ???

Kerwin White pinned ???

Shelton Benjamin beat Matt Striker via count out when Stryker walked to the back.

 

RAW unlimited was mostly Todd Grisham doing his horrible Harry Carey routine.

 

Post-show dark match:Cena pinned Angle quickly.

 

Cena did mic work acknowledging that half the crowd booed him but that they weren't afraid to speak their minds. He put over a little girl in the first row named Denise who was recovering from open heart surgery and let her hold the belt.The girl was overwhelmed and was crying. Cena ended the show as a huge babyface.

 

Many people didn't seem to understand the Austin thing and were still expecting him to show up. Only a small percentage of the crowd dressed up for Halloween.

 

Take care. Guy Bogard

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

i think its obvious that they need to end the split shows, and with all the recent RAW vs Smackdown stuff, I would kinda hope thats what its leading to at Survivor Series, but I doubt it.

[Fökai 0]

It's depressing that the WWE can do segments that are dead-on perfect that have the crowd buzzing, like the first segment on RAW with the RAW/Smackdown fight, as well as the JBL/Rey invasion last week, but can do so many segments completely wrong that we have no choice but to focus on those.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It's depressing that the WWE can do segments that are dead-on perfect that have the crowd buzzing, like the first segment on RAW with the RAW/Smackdown fight, as well as the JBL/Rey invasion last week, but can do so many segments completely wrong that we have no choice but to focus on those.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At this point WWE are lucking into segments that are dead-on.

[Fökai 0]

Yeah, I figured that as soon as they moved onto the rest of the show.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Can Jake Roberts show up and just yell DDT for a few minutes at the next RAW? That would be swell.

[UZI Suicide 0]

 

 

 

I just felt that needed to be posted.

[EricMM 0]

i missed raw. can someone tell me what the fuck that is??

[Matt Young 0]

Todd Grisham dressed up as Harry Caray for Halloween and did a dead-on impersonation of him.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

It's Grisham, who did an AMAZING "Will Ferrell doing Harry Carey", despite whatever net "journalists" are saying.

 

He even used Ferrell's taco joke and asked Cena if he would eat himself.

[Matt Young 0]

I thought the original SNL joke was, "If you were ahot dog, would ya eat yourself?"

[2GOLD 0]

Why was Helms even there? We never saw him again. Did something happen on the net exclusive stuff?

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Helms worked Heat.

 

Quote:

 

"they can't just do a title change on a shitty, nothing PPV like Taboo Tuesday that maybe 10 people will order."

 

No Way Out 2004.

 

Armageddon 2003.

 

The Great American Bash 2004.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Cena did mic work acknowledging that half the crowd booed him but that they weren't afraid to speak their minds. He put over a little girl in the first row named Denise who was recovering from open heart surgery and let her hold the belt.The girl was overwhelmed and was crying. Cena ended the show as a huge babyface.

Why didn't they try to do this on TV? Instead of Cena/Grisham, try to figure out a way to do this segment. Would have tied in well with his "never give up, always fighting" promo. Instead, you let your babyface champ get boo'd against an HBK who basically sleepwalked his way through the ME.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah but in a couple of those cases they were setting something up at those other nothing shows. I mean Taboo Tuesday? It's a blatant nothing show and it's on a fucking weeknight. It's a time waster of a PPV before Survivor Series...why would they waste a title change there? The No Way Out 04 show had a point in its Eddie title win. The Armageddon 03 was just to get the title off Shawn. The GAB 04....I don't know what they were thinking there.

 

You know the weird thing about wrestling right now? I actually am ENJOYING most of it. Smackdown is a very solid show right now for the most part. I'm kinda digging the TNA show, though it's not great. OVW is probably the best wrestling show out there right now. It's just Raw that flat out fucking sucks a huge cock.

[Guest Fishyswa]

After the train-wreck segment with Coach and Vader and Batista, I figured Raw peaked, and decided to go to sleep.

 

Raw is really hurting right now, and without a solid announced match I won't be watching for a while.

[Da Maintenance Man 0]

Cena did mic work acknowledging that half the crowd booed him but that they weren't afraid to speak their minds. He put over a little girl in the first row named Denise who was recovering from open heart surgery and let her hold the belt.The girl was overwhelmed and was crying. Cena ended the show as a huge babyface.

 

Awwww...

 

Ok, you can all continue shitting on Cena for being "mediocre" in the ring now.

[Guest *KNK*]

Cena did mic work acknowledging that half the crowd booed him but that they weren't afraid to speak their minds. He put over a little girl in the first row named Denise who was recovering from open heart surgery and let her hold the belt.The girl was overwhelmed and was crying. Cena ended the show as a huge babyface.

 

Awwww...

 

Ok, you can all continue shitting on Cena for being "mediocre" in the ring now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If they did this on tv, we'd complain how they are trying to force us to like Cena with sugary stuff like that. They did this with Shawn in 1996 as well. The comparisons are getting down right scary.